Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

[M-2]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

I'm with ya on everything here, except: who is "Phoenix....?"

Lol was reading up on Zemo a while back, I do a weekly radio show , the guy that I do the show with said Zemo used Phoenix as an alias in his first appearance in the comics, when I checked on Wikipedia there it was! On good ole' unreliable! But it's also mentioned in the Marvel wiki.

I just added that in since we know how Marvel love to use certain references from the past.

Lol but I get where the confusion came in, I think of should mentioned that Cap would figure out that someone is controlling Bucky, and that it isn't Crossbones, that there is a higher up, and maybe they give this mysterious figurehead the name Phoenix. At first there investigation into the matter could lead them to Zemo Industries, With Helmut being an extremely successful business man and engineer, a charming guy, that gets along with Cap. For whatever reason, SHIELD decides that Zemo Industries will not lead to anything significant. That they just pawns in this scheme, so they turn there attention to something else.

I kinda like this idea of Zemo, being this wealthy aristocrat, that has built up this business from the ground up, that has projects running that's actually doing some good in the world. But one day he switches the TV on and there is that Bastard murderer Captain America prancing around playing hero. It's just that snap, the idea of this man that has it all, that's doing good, but when something from his past comes back to haunt him, all he can do his recede into this very dark place that he has suppressed. Caps resurgence has Zemo treed, as he needs to restore the family's honor and the only way to do this is to kill Captain America.

[M-2]

Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72

well you answered my question. thats my guess as well.

I think they need to revamp the Falcon to make him believable within the MCU. A mechanical harness aint gonna cut it.

Plus they need to explain why flappable wings are better than, say, a supersonic battle suit (Stark isnt the only game in town btw). Furthermore, wouldnt a regular guy with huge wings be a sitting duck for rockets, lasers, gunfire, aircraft,etc.? Im extremely curious to find out how they're gonna make it work.

And no, "light wings" would actually be much much worse.

I'm not a troll btw. I like Sam Wilson as a character, and i think his skill set is a good complement to Cap as well the Avengers and SHIELD. But I dont think the character works "as is" in the MCU.

I expect some major changes to his "powers" and equipment when we see him in Cap 2.

U not a troll, this is a good post. I wonder will they introduce as Falcon with wings when he makes his first appearance or will they keep the wings for the third act of the film?

Maybe the Wings will be part of some elaborate armor, with thrusters, weapons gadgets and some sort of power source (since Tony refuses to share his beloved arc reactor technology). The Wings would basically be for stabilization, ease of flight and maneuvering, with the thrust providing the speed and agility. Sam basically gets the prototype as the suit is expensive and there aren't many Agents willing to die trying to fly this thing. Sam would make it is own by continuously upgrading, repairing and removing certain components, even adding a little color. No one can fly Sam's suit because of all his tinkering, and its really SAM's audacious daring flying that makes him the perfect "Falcon".

[BullMcGiveny]

I hope he already has his wings by the time the movie begins, myself.

I'd imagine he made it himself, and its too expensive to produce, or too difficult to master, or maybe he just doesn't wan to market it, so he's the only one using it.

[R_Hythlodeus]

Originally Posted by M-2

U not a troll, this is a good post. I wonder will they introduce as Falcon with wings when he makes his first appearance or will they keep the wings for the third act of the film?

Maybe the Wings will be part of some elaborate armor, with thrusters, weapons gadgets and some sort of power source (since Tony refuses to share his beloved arc reactor technology). The Wings would basically be for stabilization, ease of flight and maneuvering, with the thrust providing the speed and agility. Sam basically gets the prototype as the suit is expensive and there aren't many Agents willing to die trying to fly this thing. Sam would make it is own by continuously upgrading, repairing and removing certain components, even adding a little color. No one can fly Sam's suit because of all his tinkering, and its really SAM's audacious daring flying that makes him the perfect "Falcon".

If Sam is with SHIELD in the movie, I suppose his gear is powered by either Chitauri technology or reverse engineered Destroyer armor technology, the wings can easily explained as derivates from Chitauri biotechnology. New York has changed the MCU, a lot more things are possible now..

[Joeyjojo72]

I like that R_Hythlodeus. Within the MCU, reverse engineering or adaptation of alien tech actually makes a lot of sense. Didn't think of that.

[R_Hythlodeus]

Both, Coulsons Destroyer gun and Item 47, played with that idea. From that to Falcon's gear and wings it is only a small step.

[BullMcGiveny]

At first, I was about to chime in with my usual 'augh, not everything needs to be connected'

But I think you're on to something. Not the destroyer, as I don't see how an automaton with an energy canon for a face leads to wings.

But the Chitauri gliders, and the Leviathans, seemed to remain airborne without any normal means of propulsion. So Chitauri-derived wings for Sam it is.

[Smashlilman]

Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72

well you answered my question. thats my guess as well.

I think they need to revamp the Falcon to make him believable within the MCU. A mechanical harness aint gonna cut it.

Plus they need to explain why flappable wings are better than, say, a supersonic battle suit (Stark isnt the only game in town btw). Furthermore, wouldnt a regular guy with huge wings be a sitting duck for rockets, lasers, gunfire, aircraft,etc.? Im extremely curious to find out how they're gonna make it work.

And no, "light wings" would actually be much much worse.

I'm not a troll btw. I like Sam Wilson as a character, and i think his skill set is a good complement to Cap as well the Avengers and SHIELD. But I dont think the character works "as is" in the MCU.

I expect some major changes to his "powers" and equipment when we see him in Cap 2.

Bird flight has some advantages over conventional fixed wing designs. There wings designs give them more agility and maneuverability in flight than conventional wing designs. On top of that bird's can get similar flight speeds as equivalent sized model airplanes only its far more energy efficient. The military is currently trying to develop mechanical bird drones for that reason.
Robotic Bird Takes Flight

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

California Company Unveils Hummingbird Spy Drone

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Example:
Model Plane vs Magpie

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

A bird could out maneuver a missile. They can change directions immediately.

[Joeyjojo72]

a man-sized bird could NOT outmaneuver a missile. everthing changes when we are talking about a 225 lb man. the wings, to actually work like bird wings, would have to be ENOURMOUS. sorry but your explanation is beside the point given the physics involved. (and its been tested by several sources, including the mythbusters team. its not practical with today's or tomorrows tech. period full stop)

have we actually heard anything about Falcon's power set in the movie, or how he achieves it? I think i read something about biomechanical implants and some kind of serum.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by BullMcGiveny

At first, I was about to chime in with my usual 'augh, not everything needs to be connected'

But I think you're on to something. Not the destroyer, as I don't see how an automaton with an energy canon for a face leads to wings.

But the Chitauri gliders, and the Leviathans, seemed to remain airborne without any normal means of propulsion. So Chitauri-derived wings for Sam it is.

I hope not.
Granted, the MCU is probably going to be using the "alien reverse engineering" as an excuse for *lots* of things for many movies to come, but I hope Falcon gets his wings from a human source, as comic bookery intended. In particular, Wakandan tech.

[Smashlilman]

Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72

a man-sized bird could NOT outmaneuver a missile. everthing changes when we are talking about a 225 lb man. the wings, to actually work like bird wings, would have to be ENOURMOUS. sorry but your explanation is beside the point given the physics involved. (and its been tested by several sources, including the mythbusters team. its not practical with today's or tomorrows tech. period full stop)

have we actually heard anything about Falcon's power set in the movie, or how he achieves it? I think i read something about biomechanical implants and some kind of serum.

Did you just bring Physics to a Comic book fight.

Ironman's armor isn't aerodynamic. Even with the extra rocket boosters on his back it still would be impossible for him to fly and make all of those turns. Not to mention the G-forces should have kill him when he tired. The suit also doesn't have any means of reducing the shocks that he's constantly absorbing when h'es crashing around. Tony Stark's internal organs should all have ruptured and turned to mush.

Hulk's Body and muscle mass wasn't enough to deliver they type of energy need to stop the Leviathan.

[ctsketch]

Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72

a man-sized bird could NOT outmaneuver a missile. everthing changes when we are talking about a 225 lb man. the wings, to actually work like bird wings, would have to be ENOURMOUS. sorry but your explanation is beside the point given the physics involved. (and its been tested by several sources, including the mythbusters team. its not practical with today's or tomorrows tech. period full stop)

have we actually heard anything about Falcon's power set in the movie, or how he achieves it? I think i read something about biomechanical implants and some kind of serum.

pretty much everything in the MCU already defies physics....

[DrCosmic]

Not everything, they take a few liberties. Not enough to justify Falcon's 10 foot wingspan giving him flight though. I like the reverse engineered Chitauri and the wings more as slicing weapons/shields/solar panels that help with steering more than anything else.

He wouldn't be using Stark tech because he's a SHIELD guy. I particularly like the idea where he's a SHIELD techie who made the wings for Cap, but ends up having to use them himself in a pinch.

[cherokeesam]

Yeah, if he's a SHIELD agent (just speculation for now), he wouldn't be using Stark tech; but he very well could be using wings that were designed by a very famous Wakandan genius. That's the way it was in the comics, and I think it'd fit just fine in the MCU as well.

[BullMcGiveny]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

I hope not.
Granted, the MCU is probably going to be using the "alien reverse engineering" as an excuse for *lots* of things for many movies to come, but I hope Falcon gets his wings from a human source, as comic bookery intended. In particular, Wakandan tech.

Yeah, but reverse-engineering Chitauri tech to learn how it works, then using that knowledge to build something different is still getting it from a human source.

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Yeah, if he's a SHIELD agent (just speculation for now), he wouldn't be using Stark tech; but he very well could be using wings that were designed by a very famous Wakandan genius. That's the way it was in the comics, and I think it'd fit just fine in the MCU as well.

That's one set of wings, though. The one with hard-light, I don't remember who made the other one, but it wasn't T'Challa.

I agree that he shouldn't be using Stark tech, because really, we know that Stark is smart and you don't need to tout that at every turn.

[ctsketch]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Yeah, if he's a SHIELD agent (just speculation for now), he wouldn't be using Stark tech; but he very well could be using wings that were designed by a very famous Wakandan genius. That's the way it was in the comics, and I think it'd fit just fine in the MCU as well.

Stark consults for SHIELD in MCU though

[BullMcGiveny]

Originally Posted by ctsketch

Stark consults for SHIELD in MCU though

I would expect that after the events of the Avengers, he has severed all contact.

Don't think Consultancy would entail devising equipment for them, either.

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by BullMcGiveny

That's one set of wings, though. The one with hard-light, I don't remember who made the other one, but it wasn't T'Challa.

Yes it was.

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Not everything, they take a few liberties. Not enough to justify Falcon's 10 foot wingspan giving him flight though.

Comic book physics can justify an aircraft carrier that weighs approximately >70,000 tons being lifted to 30,000 feet by four turbines. After that, justifying a 225 lb. man flying with ten foot wings is a piece of cake.

[Hawkingbird]

Pixie dust?

[Vartha]

Originally Posted by xeno000

Comic book physics can justify an aircraft carrier that weighs approximately >70,000 tons being lifted to 30,000 feet by four turbines. After that, justifying a 225 lb. man flying with ten foot wings is a piece of cake.

lol yeah I always loved the Old Helicarrier's props. lol Reminded me of normal sized umbrellas. lol

[Joeyjojo72]

More like 10 ft per wing and its still completely impractical and obsolete given the tech already available in the MCU. Especially for military applications.

Everything ive read so far suggests that Marvel will indeed be drastically altering the characters powers and equipment for this movie so its good to see they recognize the issues.

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72

Everything ive read so far suggests that Marvel will indeed be drastically altering the characters powers and equipment

Makes one wonder why use the character if that's the case.

[ctsketch]

Originally Posted by RockSP

Makes one wonder why use the character if that's the case.

Need a token black avenger. He'll probably die first in avengers 2, haha

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72

More like 10 ft per wing and its still completely impractical and obsolete given the tech already available in the MCU. Especially for military applications.

Everything ive read so far suggests that Marvel will indeed be drastically altering the characters powers and equipment for this movie so its good to see they recognize the issues.

What have you read that suggests this? Comments in this thread or quotes from the writers of CA:TWS? Marvel has a very good history of adapting its characters plausibly to the film universe. The Falcon will doubtless get the MCU treatment and be as believable to the audience when flying as Iron Man and Thor. There is no plausible reason why either of those characters can fly (no, magic is not a plausible reason), yet everyone accepts them with no problem. Falcon's powers will be fine.


As proof that Falcon being carried aloft 10-foot wings is plausible, I present this video of a golden eagle carrying off a young child.* The bird dropped the baby, but not before lifting off with him and flying several feet. Falcon's wings don't flap like a bird's, but imagine a compact, stylized variation on a hang glider rig with a jetpack for lift. It could definitely work. (Don't watch if ornithophobic!)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

* Yes, I'm kidding. Mostly.