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Old 12-17-2012, 02:20 PM   #11
American Maid
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux

I'm going to wind up having a couple of posts, too, since I'm trying to respond by topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
Yes. He does not have the right to make the decision to subjugate humanity and force them into peace under his thumb, that is doing it wrong. But at the same time, in a way isn't that what Daddy Odin has been doing for all the 9 realms? And didn't big brother go down to Jotunheim with those same intentions of making them fall under his thumb and fear him. So he is following by example, what he does is really not all that different from what he sees Odin and Thor do in those situations.
And there will always be those who say that "what gives you the right to decide?" etc etc... but in truth, we do need order and someone needs to create that order. We cannot rely upon ourselves with no rules or police or leaders and just live in peace. It's just not possible for humanity (at least not at this stage in our evolution).
[QUOTE=jaqua99;24867101]
Quote:
But for Odin, it is a little different. He is the king of asgard, and his people love and respect him. He isn't necessarily deciding how the asgardians live, in the sense that loki was deciding how mankind would live. Odin is Agard's ruler, and his people love and respect them. He is their king, opposed to just deciding how they should live. Af for the 9 realms, well he is the king of Asgard. He will do what he must to protect the 9 realms, but I wouldn't go as far to say that he is telling them how to live. Jotenheim, yeah, but they attacked earth and were going to take it over or whatever. The Asgardians defeated them, and took the source of their power, so they won't attack again (we can assume this is the reason). Again, I think it's slightly different then just declaring yourself king, cause you think you know what's best for them. Slightly different
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
it is and yet, I feel certain Laufey would have been like "what gives him the right to keep my people down. What gives him the right to keep my people from expanding and growing across the cosmos?" So order is needed and leaders are necessary in order to keep the peace, even on Midgard, because we have people like Laufey here too, who would use bloodshed in the furthering of their own group.
Elements I glean from the above:
Someone has to be in charge. People need structure; they can't rule themselves.
Who gets to decide who is in charge?
What gives someone else the right to decide to take charge of where I live?

In response to which I quote:
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Yes, there needs to be structure, but the legitimacy arises from the people. And the people need to decide what the governance should be, or it won't really be accepted. And the people ultimately should be the ones who choose their leaders.

That's why Loki's actions are wrong, even if well-intentioned. And ultimately, he really can't know what's best for Earth's peoples. As for the Jotun, they should not be able to infringe on other peoples.

Asgard, as I've observed, is more of a feudal system. Since there's not a divine over Odin granting him legitimacy, it's not as clear how his authority is derived, although Jon suggests it's again the will of the people.

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