TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

[FilmNerdJamie]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

I'm 56 years old. I've watched thousands of movies. From all countries and all decades. I have a collection of thousands from all genres. It's nice to know that because I didn't like TDKR that I live in a bubble and don't UNDERSTAND CINEMA.

How many times do I have to tell you people....DIFFERENT PEOPLE CAN HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS FROM YOU....AND THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM WRONG OR STUPID OR NOT ABLE TO UNDERSTAND....IT MAKES THEM SOMEONE WITH A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN YOURS.

"You don't understand, maaaaaaaaaaaaan! You don't get it!"

[FilmNerdJamie]

I love all three installments of the trilogy. They're great movies. The Dark Knight Rises is personally my favorite.

But people really think this has a chance at the Oscars? Let alone getting a Best Picture nod? Really, guys?!?

[Tequilla]

I even used the 99%....

Originally Posted by C. Lee

This is to everyone in here.

EVERYONE IS ALLOWED TO EXPRESS THEIR OPINION WITHOUT BEING RIDICULED OR CALLED NAMES FOR IT.

Could you be fair and indicate which post called a name to another user . Mine certainly wasn't (although you quoted it)

[Tequilla]

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

I love all three installments of the trilogy. They're great movies. The Dark Knight Rises is personally my favorite.

But people really think this has a chance at the Oscars? Let alone getting a Best Picture nod? Really, guys?!?

Zero chances i would think. But this topic hasn't been about the oscars since a long time

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by Tequilla

Could you be fair and indicate which post called a name to another user . Mine certainly wasn't (although you quoted it)

Several people called others names...so a general message was posted.

[Omegabat]

Originally Posted by CJ

DACrowe, your posts seem to imply a smug sense of film-snobbery.



"Oh how cute! You watch Batman movies for BATMAN!

I, however, am more refined. I like to watch the deep and complex personality of Bruce Wayne, as he develops through Christopher Nolan's.. masterpiece of a film trilogy.

Christian Bale gives an EXQUISITE performance as Bruce Wayne. It is a crime that the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences have not given this man an Oscar for his contributions to this amazing piece of cinematic perfection.

I love watching his character develop through his business affairs at Wayne enterprises, his benefit for the re-election of Harvey Dent as Gotham's district attorney, his clean energy program that would benefit the city of Gotham, and his charitable efforts.

But of course, YOU PEOPLE wouldn't like a Batman movie for something so.. how shall I say.. "above" your intelligence level. You're the type of person who watches Batman movies for a silly man in a cape who exchanges blows with a psychopath in a clown outfit, staring the screen drooling like a neanderthal whenever the Batmobile shows up and cheering like a buffoon at every explosion that occurs onscreen.

It doesn't surprise me that you're clamoring for more Batman in The Dark Knight Rises. You simply don't understand Nolan's vision in the way that I do.

Might I recommend Michael Bay's Transformers? Those movies seem like something more suited for your.. "tastes"

Was this supposed to be funny?

Regardless I do feel that Rises seemed to lack the moral ambiguity/complexity as compared to TDK.I mean we all knew that Bane revolution was a sham,would've been cool if the revolution was genuine or hell have Bane believe in the revolution and Talia in Gotham's destruction which would've resulted in a rather complex scenario.

[Deserana]

Originally Posted by Omegabat

Was this supposed to be funny?

Regardless I do feel that Rises seemed to lack the moral ambiguity/complexity as compared to TDK.I mean we all knew that Bane revolution was a sham,would've been cool if the revolution was genuine or hell have Bane believe in the revolution and Talia in Gotham's destruction which would've resulted in a rather complex scenario.

I didn't think this film required a moral complexity aspect to the story. Bane just doesn't provide that as the villain he is, I would have howevr like to feel that Gotham was in a dire state which I never felt. That is however just an aspect to the overall story. The real story was with Bruce Wayne and I think Nolan pulled his story off flawlessly, I just have problems with the things around the story.

I was never looking for Nolan to provide a better film than TDK or a TDK 2.0 or any film that was oscar worthy I just wanted him to end the story. BB was never an oscar worthy film but I find it equal to TDK, TDKR IMO is just as good as the other two films even though it has weak aspects. When it hits it HITS and when it misses they are nothing more than mild problems for me and definitely are not problems that ruin an entire film let alone an entire trilogy. The things I don't like here are no worse than the things I don't like in BB.

As a relatively young film fan I was always envious of people who were around for the big film openings and had amazing film experiences whether that be The Phantom Menace or the end of the Lord of the Rings. The Dark Knight Rises provided me with that film experience and it is something I'll be greatful for forever.

[BatLobsterRises]

I actually saw them run a "For Your Consideration" ad on AMC the other day. First time I can remember seeing one for a film on TV.

Good for WB, I say. The movie may have no shot, but it's good to see them really putting it out there anyway.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I actually saw them run a "For Your Consideration" ad on AMC the other day. First time I can remember seeing on for a film on TV.

Good for WB, I say. The movie may have no shot, but it's good to see them really putting it out there anyway.

I've never seen a TV ad either....figured they may show up on stations out in LA, but not here in Kentucky.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

This is to everyone in here.

EVERYONE IS ALLOWED TO EXPRESS THEIR OPINION WITHOUT BEING RIDICULED OR CALLED NAMES FOR IT.

Thanks for this. My point about the toy manufacturers (which I guess is taboo to speak of) was simply stating that there is a huge market of people that enjoy the Batman character....which would include me. By stating that I wanted more Batman in the story, all of sudden must necessitate that I didn't enjoy Wayne, which is a false assumption. I enjoyed Wayne's training in BB and I enjoyed Bale's performance at his birthday party just to name a few scenes. My point was simply that I would have liked to have seen more Batman in TDKR. That being said, I wished there was more of him TDK as well, but was able to overlook it as I felt it was a far superior film. Again, it would be nice if people were able to give their opinions of the film or films without the ridicule. I personally think TDKR was a disappointment on many levels for me, but if people love it like the Second Coming, I honestly have no need to insult anyone over it.

[Kahran Ramsus]

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight08

Well, honestly, what did people expect from a movie semi-based on Knightfall? He spends a good part of that story out of costume after his fight with Bane, recuperating.

This. There is no way to get around this issue with Batman getting his back broken by Bane. It necessitates a recovery period afterwards. Even as it is, one of the number one complaints about TDKR was that his recovery was unrealistic or too quick. You can't just have Bruce pop up and be Batman again five minutes later. The audience would completely reject it.

At the same time, if you aren't going to have his back broken, why bring in Bane in the first place? That is the one notable thing that the character was known for prior to this film, and a story that fans had been wanting on screen for years.

In short, there is no way around this issue except just not doing Bane in the first place and doing a Riddler story or something.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by CJ

I have no problem with seeing Bruce Wayne's journey unfold. Like others have said, some of my favorite scenes in the Nolan trilogy are just about Bruce Wayne.

His flashback of being pulled out of the well by his father, his training with Ras Al Ghul, his conversation with Alfred after Rachel's death..

Bruce is what makes Batman.. Batman. Bruce Wayne is the reason why we care about Batman so much. Becuase we, the viewer are so invested in the character through all of his trials.

But it's comments like this..

That annoy me. It implies a sense of "You only watch Batman for explosions and fight scenes. How ignorant. You aren't watching the movie right. I like the journey of Bruce Wayne."

There's nothing wrong with giving Bruce Wayne a focus. Batman Begins didn't show Batman until an hour into the movie, and I loved every minute of it. But Batman Begins didn't forget that it is a BATMAN movie. There was plenty of Batman later on. There was a balance.

TDKR didn't have a balance. There was hardly any Batman in it at all.

Let me ask you this: When the trailers for this movie came out, tell me, were you more pumped for the scenes of Bruce Wayne as a recluse, or his battles with Bane?

Were you more excited to see scenes of Bruce talking with Alfred? (I admit those scenes are good though) or did you want to see Batman's first meeting with Catwoman?

Were you more excited to see the epic finale, telling us how Batman's journey would end, or did you just want to see Bruce sitting in the pit?

Or, let me ask you this: Did you think the videogame, Batman: Arkham Asylum, wasn't any good because Batman never took off his mask?

Just because Bruce Wayne has a mask on, doesn't mean he isn't Bruce Wayne anymore. He's still there underneath that mask.

I think it's a legitimate complaint to say TDKR needed more Batman.
Batman was only in it for 20 minutes total, and that's out of a movie that's nearly THREE HOURS LONG.

I think it was a huge error on Nolan's part to have so much focus on Blake, a (boring) new character, in a finale to the Batman story.

Originally Posted by CJ

See, Tequilla, that's the attitude I'm talking about. Thinking that anyone who wants more Batman in the movie is automatically ignorant and has poor tastes in film.

You can still tell a compelling story with Bruce in the batsuit. The movie doesn't automatically become lowbrow, Transformers-style entertainment just because he's wearing the mask.

I could go on, but I'd just be repeating myself.

I've grown to appreciate Rises a little more, but I still find it to be the weakest in the trilogy.

Batman Begins, THAT was a monumental achievement. TDK, THAT was a monumental achievement. But Rises? ..eh.

Poor writing (In comparison to the first two, anyway) an uninteresting premise for both Bruce Wayne and Batman, a lack of action (Say whatever you want, but Batman is an ACTION franchise. It's kind of necessary to put a lot of that stuff into the film) lackluster villain choices, plot points from TDK that basically went nowhere, pointless retreads of ground already covered in Batman Begins, and an absolutely dull finale, makes it my least favorite out of the three.

Excellent posts.

Originally Posted by C. Lee

I'm 56 years old. I've watched thousands of movies. From all countries and all decades. I have a collection of thousands from all genres. It's nice to know that because I didn't like TDKR that I live in a bubble and don't UNDERSTAND CINEMA.

How many times do I have to tell you people....DIFFERENT PEOPLE CAN HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS FROM YOU....AND THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM WRONG OR STUPID OR NOT ABLE TO UNDERSTAND....IT MAKES THEM SOMEONE WITH A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN YOURS.

Thank you

[Laderlappen]

Originally Posted by CJ

There's nothing wrong with giving Bruce Wayne a focus. Batman Begins didn't show Batman until an hour into the movie, and I loved every minute of it. But Batman Begins didn't forget that it is a BATMAN movie. There was plenty of Batman later on. There was a balance.

TDKR didn't have a balance. There was hardly any Batman in it at all.

Let me ask you this: When the trailers for this movie came out, tell me, were you more pumped for the scenes of Bruce Wayne as a recluse, or his battles with Bane?

Were you more excited to see scenes of Bruce talking with Alfred? (I admit those scenes are good though) or did you want to see Batman's first meeting with Catwoman?

Were you more excited to see the epic finale, telling us how Batman's journey would end, or did you just want to see Bruce sitting in the pit?

I was more excited about the Bruce Wayne stuff, definitely.

[Deserana]

On the whole Robin reveal thing I just have issue withe the way she says "Robin" ( a minor minor minor minor so minor its invisible to the naked eye issue) I think it would have been better if she just said "You should use your full name, I like that name" then had a close up of the card he gave her.

[TheDarkKnight08]

Originally Posted by Kahran Ramsus

This. There is no way to get around this issue with Batman getting his back broken by Bane. It necessitates a recovery period afterwards. Even as it is, one of the number one complaints about TDKR was that his recovery was unrealistic or too quick. You can't just have Bruce pop up and be Batman again five minutes later. The audience would completely reject it.

At the same time, if you aren't going to have his back broken, why bring in Bane in the first place? That is the one notable thing that the character was known for prior to this film, and a story that fans had been wanting on screen for years.

In short, there is no way around this issue except just not doing Bane in the first place and doing a Riddler story or something.

Precisely. I mean, once Bane was announced, people were clamoring and complaining that Nolan might not show him getting his back broken. The storyline has its most iconic moment reproduced and we, as an audience, need to feel the direness of the situation. I'm not going to go as far as to say people who want more Batman are dumb (they're not), but any story based on Knightfall needs this. Had this been Riddler or Black Mask in this film, I'd be 100% with you. But it's Bane. He broke the Bat and all that's left is Bruce Wayne. I mean, it's in the comics, yo!

[DACrowe]

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

I love all three installments of the trilogy. They're great movies. The Dark Knight Rises is personally my favorite.

But people really think this has a chance at the Oscars? Let alone getting a Best Picture nod? Really, guys?!?

People are overly optimistic.

I don't think it will get nominated for BP, but Warners is trying. I think it has a better shot than The Hobbit or Skyfall, but they'll go with 10 good films, but none of them will be mainstream hits this year (unless ZD30, Django or Les Mis really take off).

I do think it is funny that there are ten nominations now because they snubbed TDK, but TDKR will still not get in. It is a lesser film, but it is surely better than previous nominees like Avatar or The Blind Side. I mean, come on.

[DACrowe]

BTW is it me or does EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD. on these boards turn into the same few posters complaining about either the LOS returning, the Talia twist, no Joker and/or not enough Batman/too much Blake? In short: every thread is turned into the same few people complaining about TDKR being a rehash/disappointment/failure.

If anyone construes what I or some others write as condescending, it is not meant to be. It just when every thread is turned into the same conversation by the same few posters, responses tend to get more blunt as the circle goes round.

[Kahran Ramsus]

Originally Posted by DACrowe

People are overly optimistic.

I don't think it will get nominated for BP, but Warners is trying. I think it has a better shot than The Hobbit or Skyfall, but they'll go with 10 good films, but none of them will be mainstream hits this year (unless ZD30, Django or Les Mis really take off).

I do think it is funny that there are ten nominations now because they snubbed TDK, but TDKR will still not get in. It is a lesser film, but it is surely better than previous nominees like Avatar or The Blind Side. I mean, come on.

This is a stronger year than when those two were nominated though. TDKR probably would get nominated in a weak year.

[Excelsior.]

Originally Posted by DACrowe

BTW is it me or does EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD. on these boards turn into the same few posters complaining about either the LOS returning, the Talia twist, no Joker and/or not enough Batman/too much Blake? In short: every thread is turned into the same few people complaining about TDKR being a rehash/disappointment/failure.

If anyone construes what I or some others write as condescending, it is not meant to be. It just when every thread is turned into the same conversation by the same few posters, responses tend to get more blunt as the circle goes round.

Who else will complain about aspects of a film but those that found it underwhelming? Coupled with the relatively small community of the forum and it's clear why it is the same few people. Just like it is the same few people that believe this film is so damn good that it warants incredible praise. Who else would it be? It's not like some would suddenly develop a change of heart amidst all the debate and migrate to the opposing side. Those that have problems with it will continue to have it and by the function of this forum will express it here. And those that loved it will continue to gush about it.

[DACrowe]

If the insinuation is I gush about it, then not quite. I simply think it is a good film, even if I do think it is flawed and not as good as TDKR.

But my point is if you click on ANY thread on the first page of this forum, it is the same conversation about LOS, Talia, Blake and/or no Joker. That is why it starts becoming so insular.

[Excelsior.]

There is no insinuation. The point is the same people who don't like it will express their disappointment and the same people who like or love it will do just that. The relative smallness of the community of SHH may invoke feelings of deja vu because, after all, we are not flooded with a lot of new members every day.

As for your second point, all filming arguments are circular and repetitive. Are we ebating anything we haven't since July? Of course the same points will be raised and answered.

[C. Lee]

You have X amount of posters in here. Some people post more than others.

You will have people who like it....but do not ever post much....so you will not see many posts from them.

You will have people who like it....and tend to post a lot.....so you will see many posts from them

You will have people who did not like it....and they never post much....so you will not see many posts from them.

You will have people who did not like it....and they tend to post more....so you will see more posts from them.


No conspiracy.

[Tequilla]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Who else will complain about aspects of a film but those that found it underwhelming? Coupled with the relatively small community of the forum and it's clear why it is the same few people. Just like it is the same few people that believe this film is so damn good that it warants incredible praise. Who else would it be? It's not like some would suddenly develop a change of heart amidst all the debate and migrate to the opposing side. Those that have problems with it will continue to have it and by the function of this forum will express it here. And those that loved it will continue to gush about it.

You're right but....let me ask you something.

Is there a particular movie you dont like ? A director ? A series of movies ? Do you go to that fan community an keep going and going bringing the same aspects you find underwhelming about that particular movie/series/director ? Isnt it strange after so long , some people keep going over and over the same thing ? Sometimes in a comical aspect they keep quoting themselves and add some acceptance remark.

Anyone can like or dislike whatever they want. They talk about it , discuss , share different points of view. Then they move on. Usually , when mutual people enjoy something they gather to talk/practice/whatever in group. I find very normal that people who enjoyed the movie , keep talking about something....they enjoy. On the other hand , there's some strangeness to this linger of some particular users who clearly didn't enjoy it and simply ...cant seem to stop talking about it. Or is that normal , and i am the only guy in the world who dedicates his spare time to what he usually enjoys doing ?

I love Spidey. Since ever. There is a putrid horrible piece of filmmaking released this year called the ASM. I saw it. I discussed it with some people why i tought that thing was garbage and , that's it. I wont go to ASM boards to trash the movie because i have a right to my opinion. I dont like it. It's not worth discussing. I dont need to stir a place where a lot of people enjoyed something. After a while , i prefer to put myself in the side. You know why ? Because i respect the people who enjoyed it , even tough i disked it.

[The Joker]

I enjoy discussing the critical aspects of Batman as much as I enjoy talking about the stuff I enjoy. It's Batman. As a Batman fan it's enjoyable for me to discuss anything Batman related, both good and bad.

[Excelsior.]

Originally Posted by Tequilla

You're right but....let me ask you something.

Is there a particular movie you dont like ? A director ? A series of movies ? Do you go to that fan community an keep going and going bringing the same aspects you find underwhelming about that particular movie/series/director ? Isnt it strange after so long , some people keep going over and over the same thing ? Sometimes in a comical aspect they keep quoting themselves and add some acceptance remark.

Anyone can like or dislike whatever they want. They talk about it , discuss , share different points of view. Then they move on. Usually , when mutual people enjoy something they gather to talk/practice/whatever in group. I find very normal that people who enjoyed the movie , keep talking about something....they enjoy. On the other hand , there's some strangeness to this linger of some particular users who clearly didn't enjoy it and simply ...cant seem to stop talking about it. Or is that normal , and i am the only guy in the world who dedicates his spare time to what he usually enjoys doing ?

I love Spidey. Since ever. There is a putrid horrible piece of filmmaking released this year called the ASM. I saw it. I discussed it with some people why i tought that thing was garbage and , that's it. I wont go to ASM boards to trash the movie because i have a right to my opinion. I dont like it. It's not worth discussing. I dont need to stir a place where a lot of people enjoyed something. After a while , i prefer to put myself in the side. You know why ? Because i respect the people who enjoyed it , even tough i disked it.

I can't really speak for every dissenter, but I suspect that they don't do it consciously.
Most posters aren't here solely for Batman. You'll spot many of them in the Superman boards, X-men, Spider-man, Misc and many other boards. They may get the urge to check out what's brewing in the Bat boards -- perhaps as a force of habit after spending so much time here -- as they scroll the main page up and down. Then they may start to read posts that they personally disagree with in regard to the film's quality and reignite tired debates. But they feel that enough time has passed (a week, perhaps two) that they can reiterate their old points without seeming repetitive (you may disagree). It doesn't bother me because it's the nature of these boards.