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Old 12-18-2012, 04:19 PM   #826
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Visualiza View Post
I disagree. I don't see how that is categorically different from the same legions of forum members praising Nolan's vision, Bale's performance, Catwoman, Bane, the "epic conclusion", among many, many other things.

I see this type of sentiment often; trying to invalidate criticism by pointing out how repetitive it has been, and I only view it as a poorly thought out way to discredit contrarian opinions, if for no other reason than how hypocritical, and shortsighted it is. We have no problem listening to people gush all day about how awesome our favorite film or character is, but any negativity gets unfairly scrutinized. How much worth do you really get from commentary and discussion that you're in complete agreement with? How do you learn anything? All that post reminds me of is the quintessential "argument disqualifier" that we all hear far too frequently..."Haters gonna hate!"

It kinda hearkens back to what C.Lee has been saying the last few pages, in that we would all be better off with a little less intolerance and a little more civility.

I saw another post that was essentially asking "If you're not here to say nice things about Batman, why do you keep coming back?" I view this as the same fallacy as above, but in a different coat of paint. I would argue that if you're looking for a superhero circle-jerk, then you're also in the wrong place. If you're only after people who completely agree with everything you say, then you may as well be talking to yourself. At the end of the day, we all come here to share opinions and discuss a hobby that's near and dear to all our hearts - comic books, and the media associated with it. Now, we're all set in our ways, and I think I speak for many of us when I say that, in most cases, somebody won't just convince us to like or dislike certain characters, stories, plot points, etc. The idea is pure nonsense, but once in a blue moon...what I can say happens is that I'll get some valuable insight on a subject that I probably wouldn't have stumbled upon on my own. IMO, every time we try to stifle someone's voice, it kills this possibility.

/rant
Considering this is a fan community...yes it is very different. You completely miss the point. But whatever.... i dont think you need to worry , you can trash the movie every day. There's room for everybody.

I prefer to dedicate myself to stuff that gives me pleasure. Discuss what i enjoy . You don't. Its your right. I find someone ranting over the same stuff over and over and over in a place where people gather to talk about what they liked....disrespectful. I dont behave like that. You think otherwise. Its also your right.

There is a lot of users here who disked the movie but dont have that sort of behavior (im not telling its you or anything). But there's some guys here who behave in a very negative creepy way.


Last edited by Tequilla; 12-18-2012 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:14 PM   #827
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by regwec View Post
But the TDKR board is for discussions about TDKR, no? So, if they want to debate whether Vicki Vale or Sylvia St Cloud is Bruce Wayne's true love, this would be the wrong forum to do it.
How come threads about anything from Catwoman to...I don't know....maybe TDKR's potential "Oscar Chances" turn into threads about why the LOS and Talia ruined the movie? I do not know.

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Old 12-18-2012, 05:21 PM   #828
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
How come threads about anything from Catwoman to...I don't know....maybe TDKR's potential "Oscar Chances" turn into threads about why the LOS and Talia ruined the movie? I do not know.
Precisely. Everyone just went off the rails here, as they do in almost thread here.

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Old 12-18-2012, 06:51 PM   #829
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visualiza View Post
I disagree. I don't see how that is categorically different from the same legions of forum members praising Nolan's vision, Bale's performance, Catwoman, Bane, the "epic conclusion", among many, many other things.

I see this type of sentiment often; trying to invalidate criticism by pointing out how repetitive it has been, and I only view it as a poorly thought out way to discredit contrarian opinions, if for no other reason than how hypocritical, and shortsighted it is. We have no problem listening to people gush all day about how awesome our favorite film or character is, but any negativity gets unfairly scrutinized. How much worth do you really get from commentary and discussion that you're in complete agreement with? How do you learn anything? All that post reminds me of is the quintessential "argument disqualifier" that we all hear far too frequently..."Haters gonna hate!"

It kinda hearkens back to what C.Lee has been saying the last few pages, in that we would all be better off with a little less intolerance and a little more civility.

I saw another post that was essentially asking "If you're not here to say nice things about Batman, why do you keep coming back?" I view this as the same fallacy as above, but in a different coat of paint. I would argue that if you're looking for a superhero circle-jerk, then you're also in the wrong place. If you're only after people who completely agree with everything you say, then you may as well be talking to yourself. At the end of the day, we all come here to share opinions and discuss a hobby that's near and dear to all our hearts - comic books, and the media associated with it. Now, we're all set in our ways, and I think I speak for many of us when I say that, in most cases, somebody won't just convince us to like or dislike certain characters, stories, plot points, etc. The idea is pure nonsense, but once in a blue moon...what I can say happens is that I'll get some valuable insight on a subject that I probably wouldn't have stumbled upon on my own. IMO, every time we try to stifle someone's voice, it kills this possibility.

/rant
Excellent post

If praises can be repeated over and over, then so can criticisms.

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Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
How come threads about anything from Catwoman to...I don't know....maybe TDKR's potential "Oscar Chances" turn into threads about why the LOS and Talia ruined the movie? I do not know.
Probably because Oscar chances refer to the quality of the movie, and those things affect the quality of the movie.

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Old 12-19-2012, 12:56 AM   #830
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Tequilla View Post
Considering this is a fan community...yes it is very different. You completely miss the point. But whatever.... i dont think you need to worry , you can trash the movie every day. There's room for everybody.

I prefer to dedicate myself to stuff that gives me pleasure. Discuss what i enjoy . You don't. Its your right. I find someone ranting over the same stuff over and over and over in a place where people gather to talk about what they liked....disrespectful. I dont behave like that. You think otherwise. Its also your right.

There is a lot of users here who disked the movie but dont have that sort of behavior (im not telling its you or anything). But there's some guys here who behave in a very negative creepy way.
I think it is you who doesn't understand....I don't think a fan community has to be a place where everyone loves everything about the subject. I don't think not liking aspects of said subject, maybe a particular film, discredit people from being fans. It's not black and white. I think most of us people disappointed by TDKR are huge fans of BB and TDK, and also find things to enjoy in TDKR.

TDKR is a very frustrating film for me. I love the film in a very visceral way. If I don't think too much about it, I can enjoy it a great deal. But I can't just do that. At some point I start wondering about character motivations, the execution of certain moments, the writing....I cannot just let that pass, because I care about this franchise, and I wanted this to be a perfect trilogy. It certainly had the potential to be. I want to discuss this stuff, maybe even as a way of venting that frustration.

Clearly the fact that not everyone in the Hype loves TDKR in its entirety annoys you terribly, and maybe you're the one who needs a break from these boards. It's obvious that you can't take the criticism, and it's not particularly healthy for you to keep on reading all of this, is it?

Please point out what this creepyness that you're talking about actually is.

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Old 12-19-2012, 01:00 AM   #831
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by atomicbattery View Post
Thanks for pointing that out.
I've been to many, many midnight premieres- I love being around the energy of fans who are so committed and enthusiastic- and I have never, ever experienced an audience response like the one for TDKR. Generous applause, yes (Return Of The King, Spider-Man II and Batman Begins come to mind), but there was a roar at the end of Rises that I can only compare to a football stadium when the home team scores a last-second touchdown to win. The celebratory atmosphere even spilled into the parking lot as all the theaters emptied. I've been to at least a dozen of these type premieres, and the TDKR experience was unique.
The determined criticism at these boards would lead one to believe that the film is, at a minimum, 'divisive' (a favorite term here), or somewhere on the continuum to outright failure. As for the near-fetishistic 'plot-hole' discussions, there may not be a film ever made that could withstand the scrutiny. Citizen Kane would have to be thrown on the ash heap after the first scene.



Quoted for truth!

Great post!

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Old 12-19-2012, 01:03 AM   #832
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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I don't care about the comics. What I care about is what's represented in the film. And in the film, it takes a while. Yes, in movie time, Nolan flubbed the feeling of time (which is a stylistic choice with the editing that he's been doing for the last few films), but the visual clues are all there to show that it took Bruce nearly four months to recover from the injury, build himself, and then it took 22 days for him to get back to Gotham.

On top of that, he didn't really have a broken back.



Exactly. People need to remember his back wasn't really "broken" per say.

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Old 12-19-2012, 01:07 AM   #833
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Tequilla View Post
Considering this is a fan community...yes it is very different. You completely miss the point. But whatever.... i dont think you need to worry , you can trash the movie every day. There's room for everybody.

I prefer to dedicate myself to stuff that gives me pleasure. Discuss what i enjoy . You don't. Its your right. I find someone ranting over the same stuff over and over and over in a place where people gather to talk about what they liked....disrespectful. I dont behave like that. You think otherwise. Its also your right.

There is a lot of users here who disked the movie but dont have that sort of behavior (im not telling its you or anything). But there's some guys here who behave in a very negative creepy way.




Exactly! Great post!

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Old 12-19-2012, 01:09 AM   #834
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

Dark Knight, you need to learn how to use the multi quote function instead of making three posts in a row where you basically say the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am The Knight View Post
I think it is you who doesn't understand....I don't think a fan community has to be a place where everyone loves everything about the subject. I don't think not liking aspects of said subject, maybe a particular film, discredit people from being fans. It's not black and white. I think most of us people disappointed by TDKR are huge fans of BB and TDK, and also find things to enjoy in TDKR.

TDKR is a very frustrating film for me. I love the film in a very visceral way. If I don't think too much about it, I can enjoy it a great deal. But I can't just do that. At some point I start wondering about character motivations, the execution of certain moments, the writing....I cannot just let that pass, because I care about this franchise, and I wanted this to be a perfect trilogy. It certainly had the potential to be. I want to discuss this stuff, maybe even as a way of venting that frustration.

Clearly the fact that not everyone in the Hype loves TDKR in its entirety annoys you terribly, and maybe you're the one who needs a break from these boards. It's obvious that you can't take the criticism, and it's not particularly healthy for you to keep on reading all of this, is it?

Please point out what this creepyness that you're talking about actually is.
Well said, especially the bolded part. Everyone who criticizes also finds some merits with the movie. It's hardly Batman and Robin.

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Old 12-19-2012, 01:12 AM   #835
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by I Am The Knight View Post
I think it is you who doesn't understand....I don't think a fan community has to be a place where everyone loves everything about the subject. I don't think not liking aspects of said subject, maybe a particular film, discredit people from being fans. It's not black and white. I think most of us people disappointed by TDKR are huge fans of BB and TDK, and also find things to enjoy in TDKR.

TDKR is a very frustrating film for me. I love the film in a very visceral way. If I don't think too much about it, I can enjoy it a great deal. But I can't just do that. At some point I start wondering about character motivations, the execution of certain moments, the writing....I cannot just let that pass, because I care about this franchise, and I wanted this to be a perfect trilogy. It certainly had the potential to be. I want to discuss this stuff, maybe even as a way of venting that frustration.

Clearly the fact that not everyone in the Hype loves TDKR in its entirety annoys you terribly, and maybe you're the one who needs a break from these boards. It's obvious that you can't take the criticism, and it's not particularly healthy for you to keep on reading all of this, is it?

Please point out what this creepyness that you're talking about actually is.




I think what annoys people are the ones who come to these bat forums and complain and whine about the same damn things in multiple threads.

Now THAT is annoying.

If people dislike the film, that is fine, but keep the points about why they dislike the film to the appropriate thread. Not in multiple threads when it isn't necessary.

Thanks.

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Old 12-19-2012, 01:14 AM   #836
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Dark Knight, you need to learn how to use the multi quote function instead of making three posts in a row where you basically say the same thing.



Well said, especially the bolded part.




At least I keep my words to a minimum and at least I'm not going across multiple threads within a forum complaining and whining about why they didn't like TDKR.

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Old 12-19-2012, 01:17 AM   #837
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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At least I keep my words to a minimum
Ok. Are you saying you don't have a lot to say except stuff like "Great post. I agree" several times in a row? Because having little to say in each post isn't necessarily a good thing. Nor a bad thing either, but you say it as though it's something moral or right.

Quote:
and at least I'm not going across multiple threads within a forum complaining and whining about why they didn't like TDKR.
Read the top of this forum; do you see the words 'fan club' or 'positive comments only' written anywhere? I don't.

If you think anyone is infringing rules by complaining about the movie then report them. If that doesn't work for you then put the users complaining on ignore if it's bothering you that much. Either option is better than complaining about the complaining wouldn't you say.

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Old 12-19-2012, 01:27 AM   #838
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by J.Howlett View Post
How long does it take to recover from a dislocated vertebra? Because the film showed that it took Bruce a full three months to do it and another month to build himself....
According to the internet (not the best source in the world, but I, like most of the people on this board, am not a doctor) :

Quote:
The alternative is to be nursed in the recumbent position for at least 6 weeks for soft-tissue healing, followed by bracing worn whenever the individual is sitting or standing for several additional months, or until the fractures have healed.
Looking into this, seeing him with some sort of brace would've been an interesting obstacle, perhaps one of the things preventing him from making the climb. Either way, people saying he recovered way too fast should've maybe looked into a little bit more. It's a debilitating injury, yes, but it can be recovered from. Plus, if I recall correctly, wasn't there some chiropractor who said that Bruce's treatment and recovery wasn't entirely impossible?

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Old 12-19-2012, 05:16 AM   #839
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by I Am The Knight View Post
I think it is you who doesn't understand....I don't think a fan community has to be a place where everyone loves everything about the subject. I don't think not liking aspects of said subject, maybe a particular film, discredit people from being fans. It's not black and white. I think most of us people disappointed by TDKR are huge fans of BB and TDK, and also find things to enjoy in TDKR.

TDKR is a very frustrating film for me. I love the film in a very visceral way. If I don't think too much about it, I can enjoy it a great deal. But I can't just do that. At some point I start wondering about character motivations, the execution of certain moments, the writing....I cannot just let that pass, because I care about this franchise, and I wanted this to be a perfect trilogy. It certainly had the potential to be. I want to discuss this stuff, maybe even as a way of venting that frustration.

Clearly the fact that not everyone in the Hype loves TDKR in its entirety annoys you terribly, and maybe you're the one who needs a break from these boards. It's obvious that you can't take the criticism, and it's not particularly healthy for you to keep on reading all of this, is it?

Please point out what this creepyness that you're talking about actually is.
Yes. I dont understand anything. Im a frustrated man. A chump , who obviously hates criticism. You hit the nail in the head......

I dont know if its possible to be more condescending

Also , please don't talk about other people health.


Last edited by Tequilla; 12-19-2012 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:28 AM   #840
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight08 View Post
According to the internet (not the best source in the world, but I, like most of the people on this board, am not a doctor) :



Looking into this, seeing him with some sort of brace would've been an interesting obstacle, perhaps one of the things preventing him from making the climb. Either way, people saying he recovered way too fast should've maybe looked into a little bit more. It's a debilitating injury, yes, but it can be recovered from. Plus, if I recall correctly, wasn't there some chiropractor who said that Bruce's treatment and recovery wasn't entirely impossible?
I've always heard Bruce Lee recovered from a serious nerve back injury (because of lifting weights ) with some pot and resting for a few months . Why can't Bruce Wayne do the same ?

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Old 12-19-2012, 05:57 AM   #841
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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How come threads about anything from Catwoman to...I don't know....maybe TDKR's potential "Oscar Chances" turn into threads about why the LOS and Talia ruined the movie? I do not know.
I can't comment on the Catwoman threads, because I find them a bit pathetic and don't post in them. But a thread about the movie's Oscar chances are exactly where a debate on its relative quality and shortcomings should occur. Unless, of course, you believe it should be given over to hopelessly fanciful predictions of TDKR being covered in glory...

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Originally Posted by I Am The Knight View Post
Clearly the fact that not everyone in the Hype loves TDKR in its entirety annoys you terribly, and maybe you're the one who needs a break from these boards. It's obvious that you can't take the criticism, and it's not particularly healthy for you to keep on reading all of this, is it?

Please point out what this creepyness that you're talking about actually is.
I agree. I hesitate to use the word "creepy", but it seems that there are those that must express their love for every element of a movie and experience a small moral panic every time it faces criticism. I think that is...unbalanced. I have found few people who dislike everything about TDKR, and I am certainly not one; people with criticisms tend to be critical of some elements. That is normal and healthy- after all, there is good and bad in almost everything.

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Read the top of this forum; do you see the words 'fan club' or 'positive comments only' written anywhere? I don't.
That is the nub of the issue. I don't think that TDKR is exactly going to leave the Oscars loaded with bounty because, enjoy it though I did, I don't think it is an especially masterful or impressive movie.

That is the sort of comment you might reasonably expect to read in a thread with this title- as well as contrary views, of course.

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Old 12-19-2012, 06:13 AM   #842
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Tequila
I find someone ranting over the same stuff over and over and over in a place where people gather to talk about what they liked....disrespectful.
I don't come here just to whine about TDKR. If you'll notice, I've said that I've grown to appreciate the movie a bit more, changing my initial rating of the film from a 4/10 to a 6.5/10.

I came here because I love Batman, I was excited for TDK, and for the past two years, Rises.

Rises disappointed me on many levels, but I love Batman, and had huge hopes for TDKR, going way back to before we even knew who the villains would be. (I was so against The Riddler being the villain back then, and now, I wish he had been)

The disappointment for the movie is still fresh, (since the movie only came out 5 or 6 months ago) so sometimes I feel the urge to list my frustrations with it. Also, this is the most active Batman forum on SHH!

I love the rest of Nolan's trilogy.

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Old 12-19-2012, 07:04 AM   #843
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

But CJ if you dont feel affected , if you dont have that sort of behavior , why are you saying that ? Because i also said over and over , its just a bunch of users who do that. I would say most users act accordingly. Some don't. I even said to the user Excelsior that the description he gave was perfectly normal.

Some users hyperbolized what i posted , to distort what i tried to said. Maybe because it fit them like a glove .


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Old 12-19-2012, 10:31 AM   #844
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

Several points....yet again.

Everyone......is allowed to express their opinion and viewpoint....WITHOUT being attacked and called names for it.

Everyone....who expresses a negative comment about the movie....IS NOT a troll.

Everyone....needs to be respectful of everyone's opinion....whether you agree with it or not.

And last but not least....everyone calm down and take a breath before you post...it is amazing how that can change the actual content and tone of what you say.

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Old 12-22-2012, 05:59 PM   #845
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

TDKR FYC iBook - https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/dar...12/id587232404

Images from the app -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:











The book also contains two 5-minute behind-the-scenes featurettes (one of which, the intro to this iBook, has been officially uploaded on Warner's FYC site) and three 15-second FYC TV spots, all of which are DRM-encoded and undecryptable by my usual tools.


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Old 12-22-2012, 10:19 PM   #846
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

I remember reading reports awhile back that the Academy wasn't impressed with the film. If that's true it's kind of sad yet humerous seeing these For Your Consideration ads for Best Picture. I wonder if they're being laughed at.

Not trolling, I actually really enjoyed TDKR. Can't blame them for trying though.

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Old 12-23-2012, 03:39 AM   #847
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

The Oscars hardly indicate quality. Mediocre/awful films get nominated for Oscars every single year. The Reader is a piece of garbage and it got The Dark Knight's spot back in 2008. Hell, Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close was nominated for Best Picture last year and I'd have it on my top ten worst films of 2011 list.

Outside of a scant few nominees most of the films nominated year to year don't deserve to be honoured. If Rises gets a Best Picture slot then hey, whatever. If it gets passed over then hey, whatever.


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Old 12-23-2012, 03:53 AM   #848
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Originally Posted by Agent Orange View Post
The Oscars hardly indicate quality. Mediocre/awful films get nominated for Oscars every single year. The Reader is a piece of garbage and it got The Dark Knight's spot back in 2008. Hell, Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close was nominated for Best Picture last year and I'd have it on my top ten worst films of 2011 list.

Outside of a scant few nominees most of the films nominated year to year don't deserve to be honoured. If Rises gets a Best Picture slot then hey, whatever. If it gets passed over then hey, whatever.


Besides this, people don't need to look toward the Oscars to validate their opinion of a film. For that matter, it always makes me cringe when a trailer's selling point is "Academy Award winner XYZ", as if that's supposed to be indicative of whatever film/performance is being advertised, but I digress. Personally, I think that these obligatory award shows can be done away with. We've seen throughout history that some of the most memorable films were never Oscar candidates, while others were. To me, the true test of a films creative accomplishment and worth is standing the test of time. An annual ceremony could never hope to accurately gauge that.

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Old 12-23-2012, 07:37 AM   #849
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

I don't particularlry think much of the Oscars, but it is the highest achievement a movie can get. So I hope TDKR get's as many awards or nominations it can get, because I love the movie and I wish it to get as many awards as possible.
It truly is one of the remarks of 2012 IMO!

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Old 12-23-2012, 11:45 AM   #850
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances? - Part 1

It's the highest recognition a mega-budget commercial American movie can get. We mustn't lose sight of that. The Oscars represent only the big business side of the film industry.

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