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Old 12-19-2012, 09:54 PM   #501
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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What have you read that suggests this? Comments in this thread or quotes from the writers of CA:TWS? Marvel has a very good history of adapting its characters plausibly to the film universe. The Falcon will doubtless get the MCU treatment and be as believable to the audience when flying as Iron Man and Thor. There is no plausible reason why either of those characters can fly (no, magic is not a plausible reason), yet everyone accepts them with no problem. Falcon's powers will be fine.


As proof that Falcon being carried aloft 10-foot wings is plausible, I present this video of a golden eagle carrying off a young child.* The bird dropped the baby, but not before lifting off with him and flying several feet. Falcon's wings don't flap like a bird's, but imagine a compact, stylized variation on a hang glider rig with a jetpack for lift. It could definitely work. (Don't watch if ornithophobic!)


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* Yes, I'm kidding. Mostly.
a glider with jetpacks, again, is obsolete. we already know the tech for battlesuits is available beyond just stark, so nobody's gonna be impressed with that. flappable wings is fine, but it will require some next-level **** as well as biomechanical implants and/or a pseudo-serum of some kind. and yes, there has been some news on this. check the interwebs.

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Old 12-19-2012, 11:16 PM   #502
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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Originally Posted by xeno000 View Post
What have you read that suggests this? Comments in this thread or quotes from the writers of CA:TWS? Marvel has a very good history of adapting its characters plausibly to the film universe. The Falcon will doubtless get the MCU treatment and be as believable to the audience when flying as Iron Man and Thor. There is no plausible reason why either of those characters can fly (no, magic is not a plausible reason), yet everyone accepts them with no problem. Falcon's powers will be fine.


As proof that Falcon being carried aloft 10-foot wings is plausible, I present this video of a golden eagle carrying off a young child.* The bird dropped the baby, but not before lifting off with him and flying several feet. Falcon's wings don't flap like a bird's, but imagine a compact, stylized variation on a hang glider rig with a jetpack for lift. It could definitely work. (Don't watch if ornithophobic!)


VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:



* Yes, I'm kidding. Mostly.
Just chiming in to say that the video has been proven to be a hoax, created by animators who admitted to it. Just in case anyone actually believed that was a golden eagle (it wasn't), that it had a 10-foot wingspan (it didn't), and that it lifted up a child (it didn't).

Thank god I won't have nightmares about Tippi Hedren tonight.

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Old 12-20-2012, 03:26 AM   #503
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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So apparently Nick Fury is going to have a larger role in the film and may get some of his backstory fleshed out?

http://www.digitalspy.ca/movies/news...ry-origin.html
Please can this not turn into a Nick Fury movie

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Old 12-20-2012, 03:51 AM   #504
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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So apparently Nick Fury is going to have a larger role in the film and may get some of his backstory fleshed out?

http://www.digitalspy.ca/movies/news...ry-origin.html
Well....as long as it doesn't disrupt the plot and doesn't take the focus away from Cap....then I'm all for it.

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Old 12-20-2012, 05:08 AM   #505
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

At this point I fear this is less a Cap movie and more an ensemble film. Every new bit of news I hear about this film worries me more because it really feels like they're trying to shove way too many characters and way too much plot into a single films and I'm worried that the Steve/Bucky interactions, the heart of the film, is going to suffer for it.

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Old 12-20-2012, 07:37 AM   #506
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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At this point I fear this is less a Cap movie and more an ensemble film. Every new bit of news I hear about this film worries me more because it really feels like they're trying to shove way too many characters and way too much plot into a single films and I'm worried that the Steve/Bucky interactions, the heart of the film, is going to suffer for it.

For many years Steve Rogers and Nick Fury were close allies in the comics. In fact, Steve requested to work directly with SHIELD and had many missions with the spy agency. All of Steve's wartime team, the Howling Commandos, ended up working with SHIELD as well (remember, the comics were written in the 1960s, when the Howlers could plausibly have survived and been young enough to still be active agents). Steve met Sharon Carter, his love interest and Peggy's sister (later niece) because Sharon was a SHIELD agent. Together, Captain America and SHIELD fought the resurgent HYDRA, his old nemeses from World War II.


With the close ties Captain America/Steve Rogers has traditionally had to SHIELD, it makes perfect sense that he would have a similar relationship with Fury's group in the MCU. I don't think that the movie will be any more crowded than CA:TFA was.

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Old 12-20-2012, 08:04 AM   #507
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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For many years Steve Rogers and Nick Fury were close allies in the comics. In fact, Steve requested to work directly with SHIELD and had many missions with the spy agency. All of Steve's wartime team, the Howling Commandos, ended up working with SHIELD as well (remember, the comics were written in the 1960s, when the Howlers could plausibly have survived and been young enough to still be active agents). Steve met Sharon Carter, his love interest and Peggy's sister (later niece) because Sharon was a SHIELD agent. Together, Captain America and SHIELD fought the resurgent HYDRA, his old nemeses from World War II.


With the close ties Captain America/Steve Rogers has traditionally had to SHIELD, it makes perfect sense that he would have a similar relationship with Fury's group in the MCU. I don't think that the movie will be any more crowded than CA:TFA was.
Unfortunately, the MCU is on a different timescale than the comics when it comes to WWII. Cap was only removed from Silver Age Marvel by less than two decades; MCU Cap is separated by *seventy* years. MCU Fury had nothing to do with WWII, obviously, and still wasn't even a gleam in his daddy's eye when Cap was out battling Red Skull. It's certainly conceivable that *Cap's* (MCU) Howling Commandos could have joined the SSR/proto-SHIELD after the war, but I don't know how many of them would have survived long enough to see Nick Fury join the team.

In the MCU, the friendship/partnership of Steve and Nick develops only in 2011, so it's only just beginning.

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Old 12-20-2012, 08:44 AM   #508
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

^ To be fair, the Howling Commandos are a part of the SSR during the events of the movie. But you're otherwise right.

However, what makes me wonder is why Steve ends up working for SHIELD. Remember that in the Avengers, he says Fury has as much blood on his hands as Loki.

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Old 12-20-2012, 08:55 AM   #509
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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^ To be fair, the Howling Commandos are a part of the SSR during the events of the movie. But you're otherwise right.

However, what makes me wonder is why Steve ends up working for SHIELD. Remember that in the Avengers, he says Fury has as much blood on his hands as Loki.
I think we can find the answer in the title.
Yes, Steve may not like or trust Fury (who does?), but if Fury deduces that Winter Soldier is actually Bucky, who's the first guy he'll think to contact?

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Old 12-20-2012, 12:06 PM   #510
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

Maybe they are going the A:EMH route and connected Nick Fury losing his eye to one of Winter Soldier during one of his rogue missions?

Not that I'm for it, since I don't want many too many connections going on (Cap & WS, Widow & WS, Fury & WS, etc.), but we'll see how it all plays out.

Cap, in his solo series, always has a team anyway. He's best as a leader, so giving him a squad of Widow, Falcon, & Carter (backed by Fury & SHIELD) would really let him develop his leadership skills and better prepare him to step up in A2

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Old 12-20-2012, 01:00 PM   #511
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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Unfortunately, the MCU is on a different timescale than the comics when it comes to WWII. Cap was only removed from Silver Age Marvel by less than two decades; MCU Cap is separated by *seventy* years. MCU Fury had nothing to do with WWII, obviously, and still wasn't even a gleam in his daddy's eye when Cap was out battling Red Skull. It's certainly conceivable that *Cap's* (MCU) Howling Commandos could have joined the SSR/proto-SHIELD after the war, but I don't know how many of them would have survived long enough to see Nick Fury join the team.

In the MCU, the friendship/partnership of Steve and Nick develops only in 2011, so it's only just beginning.

Oh, I know. But I was explaining that the inclusion Fury and SHIELD in CA:TWS was derived from the comic book source material.


Fury knew Howard Stark very well, at least, because he said as much in Iron Man 2. He may also have known Peggy Carter since SHIELD evolved from the SSR program. (Fury stated that in the deleted alternate ending from CA:TFA.) It has been intimated but not officially confirmed that Fury is actually older than he appears, perhaps due to his taking a version of the Infinity Formula. (And never forget that Fury's official cologne is called Infinity Formula. ) we may find out that Fury was knocking about back in WWII even though he wasn't with the Howling Commandos.

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Old 12-20-2012, 02:17 PM   #512
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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we may find out that Fury was knocking about back in WWII even though he wasn't with the Howling Commandos.
Plot twist! Fury is actually an old Gabriel Jones.

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Cap, in his solo series, always has a team anyway. He's best as a leader, so giving him a squad of Widow, Falcon, & Carter (backed by Fury & SHIELD) would really let him develop his leadership skills and better prepare him to step up in A2
Not really, him having a team, that is.

Usually, he's partnering with Falcon, or Sharon. If he's leading anyone, it's a squad of SHILED extras.

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Old 12-20-2012, 02:23 PM   #513
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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I think we can find the answer in the title.
Yes, Steve may not like or trust Fury (who does?), but if Fury deduces that Winter Soldier is actually Bucky, who's the first guy he'll think to contact?
While it is true that Steve would certainly work for SHIELD if he learned about Bucky's plight, I doubt Fury would call him in. He'd be too involved and liable to act rashly, and Fury would be likelier to hand the matter to one of his trusted agents.

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Old 12-20-2012, 02:33 PM   #514
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

So far in this movie I've heard there's going to be Cap, Widow, Fury, and Falcon. Anyone else confirmed for a cameo? Hawkeye?

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Old 12-20-2012, 02:49 PM   #515
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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So far in this movie I've heard there's going to be Cap, Widow, Fury, and Falcon. Anyone else confirmed for a cameo? Hawkeye?
Somewhere I heard that the Winter Soldier is going to be in this. Maybe just for a cameo though. Like, 30 seconds at most.

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Old 12-20-2012, 02:58 PM   #516
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

Instead of an infinity formula, could Marvel have WWII Nick Fury be a white guy whose consciousness was placed into a black SLJ lookalike (or LMD) for the modern day, which would explain not only why he has such longevity but also allow them to encompass the traditional 616 appearance? After all, people are wanting Coulson to be somehow brought back as an LMD or Vision etc so why not use something like that for Fury?

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Old 12-20-2012, 03:01 PM   #517
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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So far in this movie I've heard there's going to be Cap, Widow, Fury, and Falcon. Anyone else confirmed for a cameo? Hawkeye?
Maria Hill.

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Old 12-20-2012, 03:37 PM   #518
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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Instead of an infinity formula, could Marvel have WWII Nick Fury be a white guy whose consciousness was placed into a black SLJ lookalike (or LMD) for the modern day, which would explain not only why he has such longevity but also allow them to encompass the traditional 616 appearance? After all, people are wanting Coulson to be somehow brought back as an LMD or Vision etc so why not use something like that for Fury?

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Old 12-20-2012, 03:58 PM   #519
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

It's settled, RDJ as Nick Fury as Samuel L Jackson

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Old 12-20-2012, 05:02 PM   #520
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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a glider with jetpacks, again, is obsolete. we already know the tech for battlesuits is available beyond just stark, so nobody's gonna be impressed with that. flappable wings is fine, but it will require some next-level **** as well as biomechanical implants and/or a pseudo-serum of some kind. and yes, there has been some news on this. check the interwebs.
Well, you kept arguing against the Falcon's suit as it's depicted in the comics as "unrealistic," so I proposed a reality based alternative. Now that's not good enough because it's "outmoded" and not flashy enough. This seems like arguing for the sake of it at this point. Marvel has gotten the technical aspects of its characters' powers right in every instance to date, so there is no reason to think that they won't nail Falcon's powers as well.


Iron Man's suit working the way that it does is not actually plausible but it works in the science fiction/science fantasy world of superhero movies and that's enough. The same can be said of Thor -- I mean, really, how could anyone fly by twirling a hammer? -- and the Helicarrier. I fully expect this to be the case for other heroes in future movies.

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Old 12-20-2012, 06:20 PM   #521
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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Instead of an infinity formula, could Marvel have WWII Nick Fury be a white guy whose consciousness was placed into a black SLJ lookalike (or LMD) for the modern day, which would explain not only why he has such longevity but also allow them to encompass the traditional 616 appearance? After all, people are wanting Coulson to be somehow brought back as an LMD or Vision etc so why not use something like that for Fury?

So, you're proposing that Nick Fury should be a sort of Black meat puppet animated by the spirit of a dead White guy? Yeah, no.


Fury is a Black man in the Ultimate universe and that's the version Marvel chose to use. There is no justification for virtually enslaving him via some sort of outlandish mind-swapping scheme just so it can somehow be claimed that he's the White version of the character in blackface.

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Old 12-20-2012, 08:29 PM   #522
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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So, you're proposing that Nick Fury should be a sort of Black meat puppet animated by the spirit of a dead White guy? Yeah, no.

Fury is a Black man in the Ultimate universe and that's the version Marvel chose to use. There is no justification for virtually enslaving him via some sort of outlandish mind-swapping scheme just so it can somehow be claimed that he's the White version of the character in blackface.
There's nothing about being the white version in black face or "enslaving him" as you put it. He's simply Nick Fury regardless of his appearance. His original body happened to be the 616 white version but his current body is the Ultimate version. It could easily have been the reverse. I'm willing to bet with someone like Fury that he wouldn't really care what colour he is.

You're the one who seems to see him as a black meat puppet. I never suggested anything of the sort.

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Old 12-20-2012, 08:35 PM   #523
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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I think this is really John Travolta transferred inside SLJ's body.

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Old 12-20-2012, 09:00 PM   #524
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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While it is true that Steve would certainly work for SHIELD if he learned about Bucky's plight, I doubt Fury would call him in. He'd be too involved and liable to act rashly, and Fury would be likelier to hand the matter to one of his trusted agents.
I don't think Fury is the type of guy to worry about someone "getting too close or emotional" to a given mission. In Avengers, he thrived on manipulating Steve (and the others') emotions to get results from them.



If I was scripting this, here's how I'd approach the movie:

Movie opens with Winter Soldier carrying out a high-level political assassination somewhere. SHIELD starts investigating.

Cut to Steve Rogers. Man Out of Time. Superhero. First Avenger. He's still trying to adjust to the 21st century (show several funny and sad scenes of him trying to adapt to this strange new world). He's looking for his place in this new world, and he turns back to what he knows --- soldiering. The US military is working hard to recruit him as their go-to PR guy, and Steve is more than willing to pick up where he left off all those years ago.

So Cap rejoins the US military as their all-star. Heads off to Afghanistan or some other relevant battlefield. Montage some successful missions against the Taliban, and then key in on one particular mission that features Cap going up against a Blackwater-type "security specialist" (read: mercenary) whose gone off the reservation in Kabul or somewhere and is now leading his own private war. It's become a PR disaster for the US, and they need this guy eliminated. He's even taken on a menacing look and nickname to reflect his renegade status: "Crossbones."

Meanwhile, Fury and his SHIELD agents are getting closer to uncovering the identity of the mysterious "Winter Soldier" assassin. Fury, or Widow, or Sam Wilson, or Sharon Carter, or a very old Peggy Carter or former Howling Commando, begins to notice something unusual when he/she goes back through some classified photos of previous assassinations that seemed to follow the same m.o. These are assassinations that took place all over the world, over the past seventy years or so. In each case, the assassination followed a strategy/weaponry similar to Winter Soldier's --- even stranger still, the photos seem to show a guy(s) who look remarkably similar to Winter Soldier himself. Twenty years ago....forty years ago....almost seventy years ago. And this "Winter Soldier" doesn't seem to have aged a bit in any of those photos.

Back to Cap and Crossbones in the desert. Massive throwdown. Great fight scene. Cap wins, of course, and Crossbones is captured. The commanding officer calls Cap in after the mission and says that Steve's presence is personally requested by Nick Fury himself to aid in this high-profile mission against the Winter Soldier assassin. Fury?! Steve has nothing to say to that guy, not after the events in the Avengers. He doesn't trust him as far as he can throw him ---

Then Fury drops the bomb. "Cap....it's Bucky. He's....still alive."

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Old 12-20-2012, 09:14 PM   #525
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Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

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There's nothing about being the white version in black face or "enslaving him" as you put it. He's simply Nick Fury regardless of his appearance. His original body happened to be the 616 white version but his current body is the Ultimate version. It could easily have been the reverse. I'm willing to bet with someone like Fury that he wouldn't really care what colour he is.

You're the one who seems to see him as a black meat puppet. I never suggested anything of the sort.

You did exactly that when you suggested that Fury, played by an iconic Black actor, turn out to be possessed/inhabited by a white man's soul. The Ultimate version of the character was based on Samuel L. Jackson's likeness, so why would you even think that Marvel suddenly decide that the character is actually a version of 616 Fury? The MCU's Fury is a separate version of the character who was selected specifically for the movie universe. If they wanted the 616 Fury they simply would have used him and hired a white actor to play him.

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