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Old 12-21-2012, 04:08 PM   #1
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 21

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Old 12-21-2012, 04:08 PM   #2
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:08 PM   #3
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A good example would be New York City being used as Metropolis in StM. It's obviously New York, so it didn't have the same feel as what we've seen in other media. Even the show Smallville did a good job of making it feel like Metropolis to me.
Actually, from what I know, Smallville utilized mostly Vancouver (obviously) and Chicago for its Metropolis. Early on in the show, possibly as early as season 1, they used nighttime aerials of the Chicago Loop as establishing shots for Metropolis. Later, when they started doing daytime composite skylines, Chicago always had a presence. This is most apparent in a shot that debuted in the season 9 finale and saw a lot of use through the end of the show. It's clearly a shot from the North end of the Chicago Loop, looking South, with Metropolis landmarks digitally inserted in place of Chicago ones. I'd prefer they do something like this for MOS. Nolan's ultra-real approach took me out of the films often (in TDK & TDKR) when establishing shots showed explicitly Chicago or Manhattan structures.

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Old 12-21-2012, 04:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

Well, I just hope that Metropolis doesnít come off in the way that SRís one did. Even though I knew that it was filmed in Australia, from what I saw, Metropolis in SR just didnít feel like the city itself, let alone a city in the US for some reason. It was about as generic as a city could get within a CBM. Granted, while I do hope that they add touches that make Metropolis stands out, I wouldnít want to go as far as what Burton or Joel did with their Gotham Cities, especially the latter ones. I want to feel like Metropolis could actually exist within our own world without being a total carbon copy of Chicago or New York City.

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Old 12-21-2012, 06:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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The trailers we've seen of MOS so far have me convinced of the opposite. It looks to me like MOS will be tonally more like BB, i.e. fairly serious and introspective. I hope not as I found BB boring as hell and loved IM, but I do feel that's what we're getting.
I think Nolan has learned from doing TDK, Inception, and TDKR and knows that he needs to make a less "boring" attention getting film that provides a good story and action early on while at the same time fitting in as much backstory as possible. I doubt this will be a BB carbon copy and use the same formula. It will be similar just because it's an origin story, but I doubt it will be like BB and more like IM....

....at least I hope.

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Old 12-21-2012, 08:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

Ha has this been posted? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=GmeeKxD2CxE

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Old 12-21-2012, 08:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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I think Nolan has learned from doing TDK, Inception, and TDKR and knows that he needs to make a less "boring" attention getting film that provides a good story and action early on while at the same time fitting in as much backstory as possible. I doubt this will be a BB carbon copy and use the same formula. It will be similar just because it's an origin story, but I doubt it will be like BB and more like IM....

....at least I hope.
Nolan didn't write MOS. Goyer, who also wrote BB, did. Since BB was both critically and publicly well received, I would be surprised if he didn't try to duplicate his success with Superman.

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Old 12-21-2012, 09:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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Nolan didn't write MOS. Goyer, who also wrote BB, did. Since BB was both critically and publicly well received, I would be surprised if he didn't try to duplicate his success with Superman.
I mean as a creative consultant. Yeah I'm sure Goyer has learned what to do and what not to do though. I'm hoping it wont be how BB was.

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Old 12-21-2012, 09:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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Thanks for the link. That is flipping hilarious!

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Old 12-21-2012, 10:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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I mean as a creative consultant. Yeah I'm sure Goyer has learned what to do and what not to do though. I'm hoping it wont be how BB was.
I should save my breath but we all know BB is one of the best comic related films of all time and set the standard that proved a comic book film could have a stellar ensemble cast and have a serious and real world tone. Do I want MOS to be a carbon copy? No definitley not but the same basic origin structure is quite obvious even when watching the trailer, especially the whole " hiding out somewhere trying to find himself" theme.

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Old 12-22-2012, 01:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

Pretty sure we'll be getting something like this for superman's first lift off.


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Old 12-22-2012, 03:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

That sweded version was brilliant

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Old 12-22-2012, 06:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

I've been thinking about how to go about a sequel. I know everyone here wants Brainiac, so I've been thinking about what that might look like. My conclusions: the same imagery we've seen from too many films so far. A ship hovering over a city shooting down an energy beam to destroy it (or bottle it in Brainiacs case). We saw that in Star Trek over San Fran (an energy beam drilling down into the Earth); in the Avengers over New York (a blue energy beam opening a portal for an army); and we'll see it in… Man of Steel over Chicago/Metropolis (a blue anti-gravity beam sending everything on the surface upwards). It makes me think everyone wants Brainiac because it's easy to picture, but that's because we've seen it enough times before! It's why the thought of Brainiac in a sequel doesn't excite me at all.

So I've been thinking about what is a natural progression of the story that is worthy of Nolan and Goyer again. This is what I'd like to see…

The continuation and introspection of Superman on Earth. People won't automatically accept and trust Superman just because he stopped Black Zero and Zod. I'd like to see Superman learn his limits in intervening in our affairs. Position Superman as more of a global protector. Have him try and tackle foreign disputes. What we know of MOS, is there will be a strong military presence, but I think the narrative will keep all the focus tight on Zod and not on international conflicts. Here's some imagery that I'd love to see them adapt. It has that same mature, real-world look and relevance to our own economic climate that I can guarantee the Marvel films would never touch. Whilst the Marvel films are great, they are pure fluff.







(Lois getting shot whilst working as a war reporter overseas is a striking image)

Who would be the villain of this sequel then? Who else but Superman's greatest adversary. The one man who will never accept Superman, only hate him to his very core: Luthor. Another take on the 'most powerful man in the world' who will use his influence and power to stop at nothing to reveal Superman as the alien devil he knows he is. Someone who can strategically place Superman into impossible moral propositions and courses of action. Shock Superman to his core. Make him question his very mission and purpose. That excites me far more than Brainiac ever could.



In terms of a 3rd film to conclude the trilogy (all fingers crossed). Think of how Nolan and Goyer approached it with Batman. They took a villain byproduct of the 90s (Bane) and really made it work. For this same reason I really could see them re-think Doomsday the same way (consider too that WB has expressed interest in doing this in the past). Make him a Kryptonian genetically mutated abomination that cannot be killed. My main reason for suggesting this though is this: since they are trying to make the world in these films as close to ours as possible it's just too much that we would make contact with more than one alien species inside a timeframe (thus Darkseid, Mongul, etc.). Just like TDKR came full circle by going back to the League of Shadows, Doomsday could do the same by tying back into Kryptonian lore. It keeps the trilogy tight and self-contained and wraps it in a nice bow. Hopefully something that we can be as proud of as batfans are of the TDK trilogy.

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Old 12-22-2012, 07:38 AM   #14
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

I think a good combination of both Lex and Brainiac would be a great way to go about the sequel.

If Zod is to represent the worst that Krypton had to offer, then Lex should be a representation of the worst that humanity has to offer; trying to cause an upheaval by breeding distrust towards Superman on the portions of the populace that are easily influenced and manipulated.

Brainiac could capitalize on how Superman's private war with Lex is causing disunity on Earth, with one group siding on Superman's side, while everyone else siding with Lex.

Now assuming if this isn't done with Zod at first in MOS, Brainiac could come with the promise of helping humanity as Superman did, but shows his true nature, thus making more people think that Superman is just as capable of turning on them like how Brainiac did.

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Old 12-22-2012, 08:07 AM   #15
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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Pretty sure we'll be getting something like this for superman's first lift off.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure what they showed us in the trailer was only a snippet of the liftoff scene. Really seems like there will be more to it.

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Old 12-22-2012, 08:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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Dang, that was pretty good.

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Old 12-22-2012, 09:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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but I doubt it will be like BB and more like IM....

....at least I hope.
But BB pwns IM.

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Old 12-22-2012, 09:26 AM   #18
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

Smallville 13 I think you have a point about Brainiac. He could definitely come across as a been there done that situation. If MOS is to get a sequel he might be better off been left for a reboot ala The Amazing Spiderman a few years after the 3rd film.

I think a good choice for a villain in the sequel would be Parasite. He doesn't have to be a big green monster he could easily be done in a more realistic way and much like in Earth One Vol. 2 he could for the first time make Superman feel powerless. I think of course you need to introduce Lex in the sequel but he doesn't have to have the big finale with Superman.

If we do get a trilogy and the 3rd film takes the same route as the Dark Knight Rises I would love the All Star Superman ending of the is he or isn't he dead situation that leaves it up to the viewer. Also we could have our big finale with Lex in the same way All Star Superman did and have another super villain in the film aswell. I'd be very happy if we got Parasite in a sequel and the All Star Superman ending to a trilogy.

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Old 12-22-2012, 09:40 AM   #19
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

Brainiac a retread? Come on now. Just pick up the first handful of Morrison's Action Comics to show exactly how to introduce Braniac into the cinematic universe (hell, the animated series did it great, too). I mean, I can't remember the last time I saw an alien computer come to Earth with the sole intention of bottling a major city, then destroying what's left. Plus that story would potentially introduce the bottled city of Kandor, which was add some cool "I'm not alone...but they're TINY" conflict to Superman.

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Old 12-22-2012, 09:45 AM   #20
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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I should save my breath but we all know BB is one of the best comic related films of all time and set the standard that proved a comic book film could have a stellar ensemble cast and have a serious and real world tone. Do I want MOS to be a carbon copy? No definitley not but the same basic origin structure is quite obvious even when watching the trailer, especially the whole " hiding out somewhere trying to find himself" theme.
Not saying BB wasn't good. It was! I'm just saying as far as getting the GA interested and pace of storytelling and entertainment wise IM for me was better in establishing that than BB. I was and I know many others were more excited for what could come after IM in kicking off the Marvel films than what BB did, only because people knew that all the films to follow would follow suit of IM. I don't think anyone thought BB would lead to TDK and TDKR from the way BB was.

Not taking away from BB, just that I want to be excited about the MoS franchise as I was IM to start off with.

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But BB pwns IM.
I don't know all about that and I'm not going to do the back and forth of which film is better in this forum.

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Old 12-22-2012, 10:32 AM   #21
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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Smallville 13 I think you have a point about Brainiac. He could definitely come across as a been there done that situation. If MOS is to get a sequel he might be better off been left for a reboot ala The Amazing Spiderman a few years after the 3rd film.

I think a good choice for a villain in the sequel would be Parasite. He doesn't have to be a big green monster he could easily be done in a more realistic way and much like in Earth One Vol. 2 he could for the first time make Superman feel powerless. I think of course you need to introduce Lex in the sequel but he doesn't have to have the big finale with Superman.

If we do get a trilogy and the 3rd film takes the same route as the Dark Knight Rises I would love the All Star Superman ending of the is he or isn't he dead situation that leaves it up to the viewer. Also we could have our big finale with Lex in the same way All Star Superman did and have another super villain in the film aswell. I'd be very happy if we got Parasite in a sequel and the All Star Superman ending to a trilogy.
I would love for them to adapt All-Star as well. I reckon if they strip alot of the more literary elements out of that story (Samson & Atlas, Zibarro) they are still left with a solid base for a screenplay. Even having Lois experience Supermans powers would be a nice full-circle to the famous scene from the original where he flew her, to her now flying herself as his equal. Plus Luthor getting the super-serum and Solaris would look amazing on film.

Parasite could work I guess. Vol 2 of Earth One showed he could carry himself as the standalone villain in that story. I still think Luthor can easily carry his own film. This isn't the real-estate campy Hackman/Spacey version we're gonna get again. Superman getting beat on a psychological level is far worse than on a physical level. Plus there's still plenty of opportunity for incredible visuals.

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Brainiac a retread? Come on now. Just pick up the first handful of Morrison's Action Comics to show exactly how to introduce Braniac into the cinematic universe (hell, the animated series did it great, too). I mean, I can't remember the last time I saw an alien computer come to Earth with the sole intention of bottling a major city, then destroying what's left. Plus that story would potentially introduce the bottled city of Kandor, which was add some cool "I'm not alone...but they're TINY" conflict to Superman.
I still think it would lead to alot of the same visuals we're already seeing in these types of films. But if they could come up with a way to make it look fresh then I'm all for it! Which Brainiac would be preferable: the Collector from Colu or the Kryptonian A.I.?

Edit: It sucks that most of the pictures didn't show in my post above. It's stuff from Superman Peace on Earth, as well as the cover to Adventures of Superman 631, and Lee Bermejo's Lex Luthor. That post is particularly frustrating for me cause I had to rewrite it after I had been disconnected when trying to post it the first time and then lost it all and had to rewrite it. Ended up way worse.


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Old 12-22-2012, 10:47 AM   #22
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

I think WB has wanted to use Braniac for a long time. We'll probably see Lex and Braniac in the sequel/s. Which is more or less how it should be.

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Old 12-22-2012, 10:49 AM   #23
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

I'm here for Brainiac as a villain in a future sequel.

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Old 12-22-2012, 10:56 AM   #24
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

No Parasite/Metallooo please(I always come back to this). Not unless you want a situational episode of smallville with a powerless superman due to "meteor rocks" or a power swap/drain. I personally just can't stand it.

What TDK did was interesting but the execution dropped the ball at the end. Where they had the classic batman premise of two well known villains, however they kept one very much on his/our side and in his pre-turn state for 2 thirds. Whist the other one didn't even have an orgin.
If superman could do that sort of thing with Lex and the Superman seemingly working as partners(Lex being a brilliant scientist/industrialist for man and such), only to join Brainiac, (then turn on him only to have Brainiac conquer them both, only to have Superman...etc) midway through the second act, that would work. Especially if he still came out the hero and only superman knew and hated the truth(cue final scene outside of lex's office window).

I like it because like superman, the fresh audience is introduced to a benign Lex. And also, for the non fresh audience, it's not simply another Lex movie but it uses Superman's most pivotal enemy. Brainiac is technically Superman's worst threat and can fuel an avengers battle himself, plus with him he brings the truth, or more truth's about krypton with is good for Superman's journey(maybe doomsday should be the final).

Also, the cinematic world doesn't know who Brainiac is, so it's new. And they do know who Lex is so you got that great trailer mentioning a huge villain's name post a successful reboot.

Brainiac and Lex is a good combination.

Darkseid is taken(by that rushed JLA movie).

Doomsday, requires a somewhat seasoned superman in the world(for the impact)

Parasite/Metallo, no thanks.

Would love to see the elite storyline with a Nolan/Goyer twist.


The only thing I would demand is that Brainiac uses/takes the form of his own creator to do battle against Kal.

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Old 12-22-2012, 11:12 AM   #25
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

As brilliant and flawless as All-Star is, I wouldn't want that ending for these films. TDKR was fine with a "definitive" end, but I'd much rather see a cinematic universe that could potentially continue for years, like the Bond franchise.

Having said that, Doomsday as the "ultimate" villain (assuming of course that Darkseid really is taken by JL) to close a trilogy would be great. Especially if the movie has a great end of the second act Luthor twist that shows us just how brilliant and sadistic he really is. A genius power play that truly defines his and Supes' relationship, and demonstrates exactly why Luthor is one of the all-time great villains.

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