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Old 12-18-2012, 02:11 PM   #51
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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That doesn't exclude Captain America from being a leader is what I'm getting at.
Nor does it prove it.

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Old 12-18-2012, 02:17 PM   #52
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

Then why you said it?

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Old 12-18-2012, 02:32 PM   #53
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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Then why you said it?

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Old 12-18-2012, 02:42 PM   #54
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

Sorry. I was referring to this.

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Well, they fixed the Hellicarier together. During which Steve was doing as Tony said. And almost got killed after getting in a fight with three henchmen and needed Tony to save him.

Nothing about that proves Steve lives up to any sort of legend. Certainly doesn't prove that Cap is a leader.
You remarked that Steve was following Tony's orders, like that undermined his character or something. At least that was what I thought you implied. I just said otherwise.

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Old 12-18-2012, 02:48 PM   #55
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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Sorry. I was referring to this.



You remarked that Steve was following Tony's orders, like that undermined his character or something. At least that was what I thought you implied. I just said otherwise.
It doesn't undermine him, but it doesn't make sense to point it out as why Tony comes to believe Steve "lives up to the legend"

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Old 12-18-2012, 02:56 PM   #56
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

I don't really think I made the point that he comes to believe that he "lives up to the legend". I was just saying that he was capable as a leader.

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Old 12-18-2012, 07:18 PM   #57
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

Ok. I think I figured this out. Thor and Iron Man both gain quite a bit of respect for Cap when Thor tries to hammer him into the ground.

He stands up to a demigod and throws a chunk of metal at his face. And most definitely commands their obedience. The reason Stark has a change of heart midway through the movie is the same reason Cap calls Tony out about not being a hero. They are under Loki's influence for roughly the next 40 minutes. Then, once Stark is back of sound mind, he assures Loki that Cap lives up to the legend.

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Old 12-18-2012, 07:44 PM   #58
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Wall Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

I freaking loved the movie but I don't have an ounce of love for Chris Evans' delivery of the line "The last time I was in Germany and saw a man standing over everybody else, we ended up disagreeing."

He delivered that line as flat and dry as Halle Berry's terrible delivery of her "Do you know what happens to a toad..." line in the first X-Men movie.

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Old 12-19-2012, 08:19 PM   #59
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

While I love the movie, there is one thing I was particularly disappointed by...the music/main theme. I felt it was ok. I was hoping for something more memorable to me (Dark Knight, Spider-Man, Terminator 2).

A movie can still be good with decent music, but a good score can push it up a level. Take Transformers Dark of the Moon. The war in Chicago was crazy, but the moment Optimus came flying down with the score swelling, it added to the experience, in my opinion.

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Old 12-19-2012, 09:31 PM   #60
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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I freaking loved the movie but I don't have an ounce of love for Chris Evans' delivery of the line "The last time I was in Germany and saw a man standing over everybody else, we ended up disagreeing."

He delivered that line as flat and dry as Halle Berry's terrible delivery of her "Do you know what happens to a toad..." line in the first X-Men movie.
He has a couple lines besides that one that seem silly and contrived in 2012.

"There's only one god ma'am. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that!"

But isn't that part of the Cap mythos? He's out of his own time. Like a comic book hero or a national icon.

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Old 12-19-2012, 09:45 PM   #61
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

Cap is supposed to sound flat and kind of stoic. He's the most un-ironic character in Marvel.

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Old 12-20-2012, 11:34 AM   #62
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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He has a couple lines besides that one that seem silly and contrived in 2012.

"There's only one god ma'am. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that!"

But isn't that part of the Cap mythos? He's out of his own time. Like a comic book hero or a national icon.
I thought it was a nice touch. I loved that line.

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Old 12-20-2012, 02:07 PM   #63
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

I just wish Thor had a bigger presence in the movie. Probably my only issue with the movie.

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Old 12-20-2012, 11:25 PM   #64
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

Overall:

- I thought a few too many moments were played for laughs. The Hulk waking Stark up was the worst, Coulson's "that's what it does" was the best.
- Cap paled in comparison to Iron Man, and I also felt that Iron Man telling Cap to give orders undermines the idea that Cap leads the Avengers. I also see the same thing in EMH: Iron Man runs the Avengers day to day and overall, Cap is just the field leader. I don't like that, not one bit. We needed more from Evans, more from Cap. He basically only proved that he was worthy of being on the team. In Germany, that "There's always men like you" line should have been his. It's okay to play him straight forward, but being straightforward and low impact doesn't make for much of a foil to RDJ's Iron Man. Closing the portal should have been Steve too, imho, with Widow going into the cafe to wipe some red out of her ledger.
- Some mention of Rhodey being unavailable would have been nice, at least for me.

... but that's basically it. If those had been handled, it would have ousted Incredibles as my all time favorite movie.

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Old 12-21-2012, 08:11 AM   #65
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

One of my biggest problems is that Cap seems very under powered in this. I know he's not on Thor or even Iron Man's level but he needs to be stronger than what we see in this movie. The only parts he gets to shine (that I remember) physically was when he fought those Chitauri on that police car and when his strength was teased when he punched that punching bag but thats not nearly enough compared to the amount of times where hes shown to be struggling in a fight.

Some of the ways I think they couldve shown Cap's fighting prowess:
-That pre-vis footage of Cap jumping around dodging Thor's attacks shouldve been in the movie. It was perfect. It shows how acrobatic and fast he is even though he obviously cant touch Thor.
- Have him not seem to struggle so damn much in fights like in the final battle and that part on the helicarrier. I know that especially the helicarrier part was made to give a sense of danger but still, it was in Cap's expense. It looked really bad that he couldnt take on those random dudes.
-Having Iron Man save his butt during the Loki fight made him look helpless aswell, but I'm not sure how they couldve helped it. He is fighting a god afterall.

I really liked Cap and hes probably my favourite character in the movie, which is why I thought they needed to make him look stronger.

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Old 12-22-2012, 03:03 PM   #66
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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Some of the ways I think they couldve shown Cap's fighting prowess:
-That pre-vis footage of Cap jumping around dodging Thor's attacks shouldve been in the movie. It was perfect. It shows how acrobatic and fast he is even though he obviously cant touch Thor.
- Have him not seem to struggle so damn much in fights like in the final battle and that part on the helicarrier. I know that especially the helicarrier part was made to give a sense of danger but still, it was in Cap's expense. It looked really bad that he couldnt take on those random dudes.
-Having Iron Man save his butt during the Loki fight made him look helpless aswell, but I'm not sure how they couldve helped it. He is fighting a god afterall.
- Definitely would have been cool to see Cap dodging Thor's attacks before Thor "drops the hammer."
- With fighting Loki, I think Cap could have fought to a standstill until Iron Man showed up. I don't mean that Cap would have overpowered Loki, but could hold his own a little more for a limited time.

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Old 12-22-2012, 06:25 PM   #67
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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- Definitely would have been cool to see Cap dodging Thor's attacks before Thor "drops the hammer."
- With fighting Loki, I think Cap could have fought to a standstill until Iron Man showed up. I don't mean that Cap would have overpowered Loki, but could hold his own a little more for a limited time.
I wouldn't have wanted to see that at all. It's something I've always had an issue with, in terms of Cap fighting in the field. In 616 power levels, he's only peak human, which means that he shouldn't be able to last longer then a few seconds next to some of the people the Avengers take on. They were pushing it already with him going toe to toe with Thor and Loki even for a few moments.

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Old 12-23-2012, 07:36 AM   #68
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

He wasn't going toe-to-toe with. He was getting whipped by Loki, and was thrown to the ground three times. Black Widow described him as being "all over the place"

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Old 12-23-2012, 10:15 AM   #69
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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He wasn't going toe-to-toe with. He was getting whipped by Loki, and was thrown to the ground three times. Black Widow described him as being "all over the place"
That comment was about Loki, considering it's either preceded or followed by a comment about how she can't get a weapons lock on him. Think about him being a trickster god, now think about the sensors being unable to locate him. There you go.

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Old 12-23-2012, 10:20 AM   #70
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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That comment was about Loki, considering it's either preceded or followed by a comment about how she can't get a weapons lock on him. Think about him being a trickster god, now think about the sensors being unable to locate him. There you go.
It wasn't, though.

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Old 12-23-2012, 01:23 PM   #71
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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That comment was about Loki, considering it's either preceded or followed by a comment about how she can't get a weapons lock on him. Think about him being a trickster god, now think about the sensors being unable to locate him. There you go.
I agree that the statement is very straightforward. It's about Loki, she is trying to target him.

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Old 12-24-2012, 02:43 AM   #72
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

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I wouldn't have wanted to see that at all. It's something I've always had an issue with, in terms of Cap fighting in the field. In 616 power levels, he's only peak human, which means that he shouldn't be able to last longer then a few seconds next to some of the people the Avengers take on. They were pushing it already with him going toe to toe with Thor and Loki even for a few moments.
I don't think peak human means that unless you can't take hits with a big ol shield, or the enemy has superspeed. Superior strength isn't an automatic win button.

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Old 01-02-2013, 11:02 PM   #73
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

-What I disliked most was caps costume, huge rule of cool downgrade from the Ultimates inspired costume from First Avenger which imo surpassed the Ultimate vol 2 costume. I get that they wanted a new suit for new toys and whatever but it just looked awful with the hood/mask but tolerable without it.

-I know you 616ers are gonna hate me for this but I wish caps persona was more like his ultimate persona in terms of dialogue, attitude and projection of strength(movie cap appears to be considerably weaker and slower than movie blade). movie loki was obviously not serious against cap at all but it was for all intents a curb stomp. ultimate cap was far more effective against a not yet serious ultimate hulk, I wish movie cap had managed to get some of that impact in before going down to loki

-Like many I wished the hulk vs thor fight lasted longer it had elements of Supes vs Doomsday but with better costumes

-In terms of the blu ray I wish there was an option to watch the movie with the deleted scenes added back in
*minor beef the main poster shown in the BR 4 pack wasn't available online

-No Tie in Video Game??? No MCU costumes in MVC3???


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Old 01-14-2013, 08:56 AM   #74
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

Why were the Chaturi holding some civilians as hostage when clearly they were waging a war on Earth, they were not going to make any demands, the chatauri were sent on Earth just to inflict damage and kill as many as possible, but we see that the aliens are holding a group of people as hostage and Captain America has to go there and rescue them.

I felt the whole scene was set up so that Whedon could show Captain doing something heroic.

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Old 01-14-2013, 09:03 AM   #75
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 2

Yeah I think personally the Chitauri knew those people weren't fighting back. Remember, Loki wants people to RULE over not kill.

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