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Old 11-22-2012, 08:09 PM   #26
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

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-Changed Starling City back to Star City, but based it on Seattle. I wish the city looked less generic.
-Had Arrow in a mask or goggles. Also Arrow would use his voice changer with everyone, similar to how Green Arrow did on Smallville.
-Better costuming for the villains.
-Better overall treatment of DC villains. I think many needed better introductions as well as exits. While I wish that villains like China White were given better arcs. She should be more than muscle.
-Made the Dig character Ben Turner (Bronze Tiger); that way he can eventually become his own established hero, and he would have that whole Suicide Squad history the show could play with.
-Made Tommy Merlyn more formidable right off the bat, or have by now introduced a dad, uncle, or brother that could fit the bill. Perhaps have that name be one on Oliver's list.
-Iffy on Thea as Speedy, but since they did give her that nickname I think it is a logical guess that she will eventually become his sidekick. I wish they had by now showed that she could handle herself, like they did with Laurel during that club scene.
-Changed the cinematography. It looks too much like the other CW shows.
Generic? Most of the skyline shots are Philadelphia!

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Old 11-22-2012, 10:32 PM   #27
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

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Generic? Most of the skyline shots are Philadelphia!
LOL! Actually there's a discussion about this on the Arrow IMDB board

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2193021/...&p=1#206756913

Some other people stated other city skylines have been used as establishing shots as well...

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Old 11-23-2012, 02:34 PM   #28
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

I like the show so far. But wish the character is more flashed out, but we shall see.

And while I like the fight scene, I think they can be done even better or in an more interesting way. I was watching an old show call Charlie Jade the other day and the action was quite fantastic. Here's a scene I like quite a bit*

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

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Old 11-24-2012, 06:52 PM   #29
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

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LOL! Actually there's a discussion about this on the Arrow IMDB board

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2193021/...&p=1#206756913

Some other people stated other city skylines have been used as establishing shots as well...
I like the one that said he saw a glimpse of Minas Tirith. Haha.

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Old 12-08-2012, 01:13 AM   #30
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

I still enjoy the show very much but there are some things I don't like

1.first thing is first - I would absolutely not have cast Katie Cassidy as Laurel. This is wrong casting on many levels , the actress isnt strong enough to carry a lead role nor suitable enough either. But this is CW so I sort of expected a weak and generic casting like this for their female leads.
2. I would have got rid of the sisters.
3. Im not bothered by starling city too much. I would have kept it star city though.
4. Would have not brought in these characters: (Tommy - too lex), Felicity (too stereotypical), (Diggle - too Alfred)
5. I would have brought in instead: Roy Harper, Arthur King as Merlyn, no IT tech role needed or a very underused IT guy for a change.
6. Oliver's dad would not have died by suicide but by drowning or starvation basically natural causes.
7. I would have introduced Helena as Laurel's old friend not as a love interest for Oliver


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Old 12-08-2012, 04:14 AM   #31
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

The way they write Dinah, Katie is the least of the problems. No actress could really make that current role work.

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Old 12-08-2012, 06:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

That is an awesome username. I wish it didn't belong to a bot.

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Old 12-11-2012, 08:44 AM   #33
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

I know this is a comic book forum and my opinion probably isn't the same as all of yours (although i do respect them), but I genuinely think people need to seperate the Green Arrow from the comics and "Arrow" from the TV show and then you would see it in a different light. This is a complete reimagining and they have artistic license to adapt it how they want, this is not "Green Arrow" the TV show imho.

For someone that knew little of the green arrow prior to this show, I can honestly say it is the best show on TV, episodes so far between 8/10-10/10. I see why people get upset about character changes etc, but if you can look at it with a fresh pair of eyes, you'll see the show is imaginative, creative, and just generally better than most things on TV right now.

The only thing I'd change would be to speed up some of the soap opera stuff. But having said that, if they're planning to go 5 or more seasons, I can see exactly why it's such a slow burn, because when Tommy Merlyn for example finally does something, we will know exactly why and how, and it will be that much more rewarding for all the build up.

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Old 12-11-2012, 05:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

Yeah, but post Avengers, I'm over the grim and gritty and cheerless comic book adaptations (of course there are exceptions, depending on the material), but it's Green Arrow, they should be having some fun with it.

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Old 12-12-2012, 09:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

All the things they are doing now with Huntress, Merlyn the Magician, Red Arrow, etc.

I now like the show.

I'm amazed the writers have either fixed the show (assuming it is still filming) or if it is already all filmed, had the foresight to annoy comic book fans for several weeks before going ahead and actually being like the comics.

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Old 12-15-2012, 05:09 PM   #36
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

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I know this is a comic book forum and my opinion probably isn't the same as all of yours (although i do respect them), but I genuinely think people need to seperate the Green Arrow from the comics and "Arrow" from the TV show and then you would see it in a different light. This is a complete reimagining and they have artistic license to adapt it how they want, this is not "Green Arrow" the TV show imho.

For someone that knew little of the green arrow prior to this show, I can honestly say it is the best show on TV, episodes so far between 8/10-10/10. I see why people get upset about character changes etc, but if you can look at it with a fresh pair of eyes, you'll see the show is imaginative, creative, and just generally better than most things on TV right now.

The only thing I'd change would be to speed up some of the soap opera stuff. But having said that, if they're planning to go 5 or more seasons, I can see exactly why it's such a slow burn, because when Tommy Merlyn for example finally does something, we will know exactly why and how, and it will be that much more rewarding for all the build up.
I dunno... given the channel and some of the demographics the show is targeting, stretching out the soap opera bits might actually be more beneficial to the show.

That being said, I agree in that there is much room for improvement in that department. For instance, the problem with Laurel and Tommy is that they currently aren't particularly well integrated into the story; especially Tommy. Yes, we know Laurel+Oliver is supposed to be end game but we aren't really seeing much of that; and what we have doesn't really have much meat.



With all that in mind, some of the things I'd have done differently include:

I'd have combined Laurel and her father into one character; making Laurel a rookie detective in SCPD:
  • At the moment, both Laurel and Quentin feel pretty one note. Likewise, there really isn't any reason why Oliver isn't pursuing Laurel since he still cares for her. Both these issues can be solved by combining the two Lances into one character - namely Detective Laurel Lance.
  • This would provide the necessary complication to keep Oliver/Laurel apart since Laurel is a cop while Oliver is secretly a (criminal) vigilante. It would be set such that Oliver decides not to restart a relationship with Laurel lest she finds out about his vigilante activities and doesn't want to put her in that position. Obviously, Diggs calls bull on it and questions whether it's more that Oliver is afraid she'd choose her job and the law over him.
  • And if she does wind up in a relationship with Oliver and does find out about him being the vigilante, it would place Laurel in a dilemma. Meaning, the show wouldn't have to drag out the will they/won't they phase of the relationship as there are still dramatic twists and developments that can be explored post-hookup.
  • In addition, it provides a more logical basis for Laurel's fighting abilities if they do decide to pursue turning her into the Black Canary.
  • As a plus, instead of some random comment about wearing fishnets one Halloween, the Black Canary reference be along the lines of where Oliver or Tommy pays her a visit at her workplace and comments on her sensible/practical clothes (since they normally only see her during social events). At which point she retorts with, "What were you expecting? That I run around fighting crime in fishnets?"
If the whole legal aid angle is still necessary, have Tommy fill Laurel's place as a lawyer.
  • He'd still be a hard-partying billionaire playboy. Only now, he's a hard-partying, billionaire playboy who 'selflessly protects the poor and helpless'. I think this would have helped add depth to his character. Besides, douchebags with hearts of gold are always fun and interesting. Especially ones who can turn their selfless streak into a pickup line.
  • Papa Merlyn's cutting him off would play a more dramatic plot point by forcing Tommy to close the legal aid office or to search for alternative sources of money.
  • In addition, it would also be a ploy by his father to start getting Tommy involved in the conspiracy he has going; by making Tommy work as a lawyer to protect the conspiracy's corrupt members.


Unrelated to Laurel and Tommy, I'd also make one change to Thea's story arc. Namely, to focus on her drinking and drug problem and develop it in this way:

  • That she's simply mirroring old Oliver's behaviour.
  • This places Oliver in a dilemma. On the one hand, he needs his partying image to maintain his secret identity. On the other, he wants to be a better role model for his sister. Telling her to stop her behaviour while he himself seemingly indulges in it would be seen as hypocritical.


Also, while on the subject on Thea, I'd also have upped her age slightly from 17 to 18.
  • This way, they don't have to touch on her moving out and going to college since she'd already be studying at a university in Startling City.
  • This reduces the Fridge Logic of how Thea is able to be at home and involved in the story as opposed to being at school. If she's studying at university, she probably has fewer/more flexible schedule. Likewise, how she keeps getting into clubs and whatnot. I reckon bouncers are likelier to turn a blind eye towards letting in someone who's below drinking age versus outright jailbait.
  • The only down side is that no more 'Thea dressed in a school uniform' scenes, which would be a shame.

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Old 12-21-2012, 02:03 AM   #37
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I don't think its been on long enough to say what I would do differently but here are some of my ideas:


Ollie brought Diggle into his being Arrow. And he has enlisted Felicity Smoke a few times. I think he should begin building a team, even if the team doesn't know they are a team or about one another, and have Roy come in as a Weapons/Tech expert/dealer. He gets Ollie higher tech weapons and body armor, Ollie's Arrow starts wearing goggles with night vision lenses options, and using "trick arrows" like flash grenade arrows, net arrows, smoke arrows, and electro shock arrows. Thanks to Diggle (who maybe brought Roy to Ollie) Ollie's Arrow becomes more non lethal. But he never looses his edge, like shooting a guy to a wall with an arrow through his hand. He just stops killing. (This could also bring Arrow into conflicts with morality when he then frames the criminals with evidence, something to ensure they get in trouble. Just my own idea there.) He also starts calling himself Green Arrow and becomes less of an urban legend. Maybe in a well calculated plot by Ollie to start scaring his foes in the city. And just for fun to disguise himself while being Arrow he has a fake goatee (spelling?). This would help hide his identity, the Arrow vigilante has a goatee and Ollie doesn't. Ollie should also start showing his political side, and maybe start using the term fat cats. And on that note, Diggle also pushes Ollie into protecting the innocents of the city rather than hunting the names in the book. He still can go after them but he sees how he must put the citizens first.


Meanwhile Ollie begins opening up more to his sister Thea. It starts when Ollie decides that Thea needs some self defense training. So he trains her himself in combat and archery. He starts opening up about what happened on the island, at least half truths and what he can tell. Leaving out other parts and still leaving the drama of him not opening up to his family while still having him open up and get closer. Further in Thea inadvertently meets Roy Harper who has been in the area a lot lately. They start dating, despite Ollie's threats and warnings, and there is now the Roy Harper/Speedy relationship. Later in that same storyarc Thea stumbles onto Ollie's being Arrow, perhaps in part thanks to Roy. (Perhaps her meeting Roy and dating him can come after her falling into Ollie's secret Arrow life.) She never becomes a sidekick vigilante, but just someone who knows Ollie's secret. Maybe helps make up excuses for him.

So now, in the series, Ollie's Arrow has a team of operatives (soldier John Diggle, computer expert Felicity Smoke, and weapons expert/dealer Roy Harper.) Arrow also has higher non-lethal tech and weapons, and a costume/armor upgrade or sorts. His sister Thea would be more important on the show knowing his secret and giving Ollie someone close to talk to and eliminating some of the "Ollie is a jerk, he doesn't care about anyone but himself" stuff. It would also open up the possibility of "Speedy" in the future. And maybe a possible future story where, because Thea is too close, she gets killed or hurt sending Roy into conflict with Ollie and pushing Ollie over the edge back into killing. But that is just a possibility.

On the Laurel Lance front, I would have her begin to transition into Black Canary more. Start showing her at self defense class more. Show her defend herself against a mugger maybe too. And show her views of justice start to be questioned and put her in conflict with her father more. She maybe starts seeing how the vigilante works better than the cops, or maybe she can find out her father is surrounded by crooked cops or could even be part of it somehow. And in a later down the line story he could get killed while trying to go by the book when the vigilante way would have kept him alive. This would give her reasons for becoming a vigilante and show she has the training to start it. Maybe Ollie even starts training her more once she comes to him for help.

I'd also start bringing in enemies that reflect Ollie more, help explore who he is and who is becoming and could become. Someone like Manhunter or Azreal. More stylized costumes and less toned down costumes too.

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Old 12-21-2012, 01:00 PM   #38
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

I liked Mr. Peasant's ideas quite a bit.

Recently re-watched some episodes and I'm just seeing how unlikely it seems that this depiction of Laurel will become Black Canary. I have no problem with the actress, but I have to wonder if maybe they should've waited to bring Laurel onto the show and made this a separate character.

Heck, I wouldn't have minded seeing Alaina Huffman again.

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Old 12-23-2012, 11:04 PM   #39
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Default Re: What would you have done differently with Arrow?

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Basically have it take less cues from Nolan, and try to have some fun. I'm not talking going all camp with it, but have it be less grim and gritty and inject a little bit of levity.
If you don't want camp then John Barrowman has to go, it's like washing Buttons from Cinderella playing a baddie!

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Old 12-25-2012, 01:34 PM   #40
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The way they write Dinah, Katie is the least of the problems. No actress could really make that current role work.
NO, she is the biggest problem with what wrong with the character. She can barely act in anything. Elimate the weakest actor on the show and the character will get a lot better.


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whose?


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Old 12-26-2012, 11:46 AM   #41
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NO, she is the biggest problem with what wrong with the character. She can barely act in anything. Elimate the weakest actor on the show and the character will get a lot better.




whose?
I disagree with you, there. Katie was great on Supernatural as Ruby. She has skills, she's just being under utilized. Personally, I think they're working on building Oliver's character soo much that some characters are being left in the dark a bit. Laurel hasn't had much room to really reach. She needs a few episodes that really focus on her, and not as a love interest or pawn between oliver and her father.

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Old 12-26-2012, 06:23 PM   #42
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I repeat she wasnt good in anything,that includes SPN imo.
No thanks, the less screentime the better, unless they change actress.


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Old 12-27-2012, 09:21 AM   #43
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Well, you can repeat your opinion all you want, It's not going to change mine. I loved her on Supernatural. There's no where for her to attempt to act, unless the writing gives her a chance. They're not going to just change the actress now, so it's probably best if you get over it. or at least temper your hatred.

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:00 PM   #44
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I actually think she is a good actress too. When she first popped up on the show and they revealed she was going to end up as Black Canary I though at least they picked a good actress to eventually be her.
She is just not used as much yet. I think they are trying to establish the show as a whole and Arrow/Ollie first. Because they want it to appeal to the Gossip Girl CW audiance and the action superhero audiance and comic readers and the viewers who wouldn't watch either shows, so I think maybe they are trying to love triangle first.

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Old 12-28-2012, 07:09 PM   #45
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Well, you can repeat your opinion all you want, It's not going to change mine. I loved her on Supernatural. There's no where for her to attempt to act, unless the writing gives her a chance. They're not going to just change the actress now, so it's probably best if you get over it. or at least temper your hatred.
I dont expect you to change your opinion, Im only saying I disagree. If you see otherwise thats alright. Im not trying to persuade you, just making you understand my opinion.

She is a mediocre actress IMO, thats will only kill this character if not recast soon. Im not hating on her lol, I dont hate her, its critisism of her performance and Im not going to "get over it". I'm going to continue critiquing her performance until she gets better, which likely wont happen because the girl has never been a good actor and isnt one!!!. So its until they get someone new. Recasting is not an unusual thing btw. Better writing will not make up for teribble and weak acting, sorry it wont!!, works more effective when you already got a good actor. She already got some good material in some few episodes and it hasnt made up for the crap acting. Some actors on this show have crap writing too and they still are good actors.

If the showrunners of this show want to salvage this character, they will accept they made a mistake in casting, they will accept this is a MISCAST, that the actress is weak and start quickly looking for someone new soon, someone who has good acting chops and the right fit for the character. Then they can also make some changes in writing before or after recast, doesnt matter which order . As long as they RECAST. That the number one thing they need to fix.

I realise you disagree and thats OK. I dont say things to score points, just how I see it and what I think will benefit the show.


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Old 12-29-2012, 12:37 AM   #46
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Unfortunately, I don't think what you've commented thus far really counts as 'criticism' as you haven't really explained yourself. You are right that what you've said thus far is an opinion. However, it's just that and everyone has an opinion. More importantly, not everyone's opinion is equal. It's how one explains or rationalises one's opinion that really matters and count as 'criticism'. Otherwise, your opinion just simply isn't qualified.

Yes, you've said that you feel that she's a weak actor because you thought that her performances weren't good. But that statement is completely meaningless. Of course, you would think so. You wouldn't very well be saying she's a weak actor if you thought her performances were good, surely? What's important here is why you felt her performances weren't good as that would determine whether your statement has any merit and/or makes sense.

For instance, I could say "I can neither understand nor accept your opinion" but that would a pointless. Instead, what I should do is say "I can neither understand nor accept your opinion because you neglected to explain it.".


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Old 12-29-2012, 04:46 AM   #47
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Well, I do have some reasons, whether or not they will carry any weight. I will say them anyway. Some I already said in my other posts, sort of.

First thing is its just something thats visible to me. Being a miscast or being a weak actor its something one can tell off the bat, or after a few scenes, regardless of whether the writing is good or not. One can tell if someone is a perfect fit or not.

Ok next is when I compare to the other actors on the show, she is kind of one of the weakest actors with like two others. The actress has one note facial expressions, and doesnt always have the right expression for the situation. With scene with other actors/characters, there is a wide gap there in performance. For a lead actress its just so bad.

She lacks range in expressions & acting , and is just unconvincing as a lawyer. Thats just bad casting there and terrible acting. I could go on, but really, its just visible Imo.


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Old 12-31-2012, 09:24 AM   #48
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A few people i've talked to have mentioned they feel like Katie lacks chemistry with Stephen. Which I can see, I guess. I don't necessarily think that's a fixed problem, though. As a show goes on and the actors work together more playing off of each other can get better.

As I've said, I certainly don't think Katie is a bad actress. I don't think she's any less convincing as a lawyer than Katie Holmes/Maggie in Nolan's series. She certainly doesn't come off as an aged experienced attorney, but she fits fine as the young, eager, go-getter.

I think the biggest problems are with the cynical untrusting love-hate thing corner they seem to always write Laurel into. But again that comes down to writing. Is she the best actress on tv? hell no. But she's not awful. It's still a first season of a show where she's a supporting character. I think she'll come into her own as it goes on.

... Or the writing will get worse, and we'll have another Kristin Kreuk situation, where they have no idea what to do with her character and she's just the worst thing about the show. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

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Old 12-31-2012, 11:22 PM   #49
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I can see the writing is not great, but Katie Cassidy was miscast from the get go from my p.o.v . A miscast is a miscast. Way before the shown even started and that that hasnt changed and wont, gave her a chance nevertheless (9 episodes), almost everyone stepped up with or without brilliant writing. TBH I dont know why she was cast she is far removed from the character she is playing and she lacks range and acting to get in character and to make it work, she isnt versatile. Sorry, I dont think she fits the role yesterday, today and tomorrow. Yeah some people I seen around think she is miscast and think she lacks in acting too, thats a very bad and dangerous combination. If it was one or the other might be able to work out not both.

I would hope they recast to salvage this character, but if not thats ok, I do like and enjoy a lot of the other things in the show. It would be sad coz I really want to enjoy this character, like most others in the show. If some people are enjoying her performance then thats cool, I'm happy for them. I dont blame the actress at all for this, but a little on the casting people, but they are human too and they make mistakes so I forgive. Maybe I could even say I blame the network (CW) the most for this (mis) casting, I speculate they pushed the actress on the show, nothing will convince me otherwise until further proof, this casting really just makes no sense to me, the acting talent is lacking, the right and suitable look, age or personality is null. It makes no sense to me as with most casting for female characters I suppose, the actress playing Helena was awful and some other actresses. Its almost like they are casting them based on looks or because they hold some kind of contract at CW and not considering acting talent or if they suit the role.
Dont mean to start the new year with gloom, but the situation already is gloomy for the character imo. Will agree to disagree.


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Old 01-03-2013, 02:01 PM   #50
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First off love this show!!! Especially the training sequences etc. Of all the recent heroes brought into live action I can fully believe this guy could function as a vigilante. This show was a surprise for me, I'm glad I started watching from the beginning.

The only thing I would change is not making him kill in cold blood. I get killing in self defense but snapping a guy's neck to protect your identity on the first episode is a sure fire way to alienate your audience. It reminds me of the Daredevil movie. They establish at the beggining of the film that he has no problem killing a bad guy or at least letting him die. Then by the end of the film he's gone through some sort of character arc where now he won't kill the worst murderous villain in the whole city Really, the guy who now knows your identity and threatens to out you etc. It just doesn't make sense.

I feel like establishing a character as willing to kill strips away the cops ability to help or cover for this vigilante. He's a murderer plane and simple, they can't ignore that. He needs to be brought to justice. It also makes his interactions a bit odd. It was one thing to see Clark in Smallville to confront a fellow young hero and set them on the right moral path, but Ollie is kind of a hypocrite with Helena. He may not kill as freely or crazy as her but come on. Also if Helena was anyone else she'd be dead but he let her go and will most likely never kill her. Ok then on what basis does he take a life then? I like the character, I like his development, but that is one thing that seems inconsistent and unnecessary. He can't do a bunch of good deeds and get his record expunged now, he has blood on his hands. Again in straight self defense, it's understandable but snapping someone's neck isn't exactly self defense.

I like the supporting cast etc. The acting isn't great on this show, so I really don't understand calling out certain actors or actresses as if they bring the show down, none of them are great but they're all effective. That's all you need.

And for the people saying the show should have super powers or be more like the comic, if they were going to go that route then they should've just spun off of Smallville honestly after he first appeared instead of using him on that show for so long. You had the trick arrows, a light-hearted Ollie etc. In order to establish that this is a different version of that character they had to go in a more realistic direction. I'm not complaining. It's an adaptation. It can't be the comic verbatim and thankfully it's not. That doesn't make or break everything, the adaptation itself needs to be good enough to stand on it's own merit. And it's fine that he isn't called Green Arrow. Arrow works fine as title of the show. And in the last episode so far someone does call him Green Arrow. That episode also featured some of his first visible heroics with civilians. No doubt they might dub him the Green Arrow.

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Last edited by Daybreak_st; 01-03-2013 at 02:05 PM.
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