Rank every comic book film - where do the Spider-Man films fit in?

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Oscorp

I very much agree with that bold statement. I always feel a bit uncomfortable at that part and many other scenes because as you say, it feels too unreal and "poetic" in a way that puts you out of it. This is another thing I've always had a problem with when it comes to Nolan. He tries to make every sentence sound overly poetic and epic that you feel it belongs more to an act play rather than a film. It feels like he doesn't give much thought to whether or not it actually fits naturally or feels forced, he just came up with a sentence he thought sounded awesome and had to put it in the movie no matter what.

I mentioned that Gordon's final speech in TDK felt like he was pulling words out of a hat. It just didn't feel real. It sounded cool, but it was utterly ridiculous. With Nolan, everything is overly poetic or overanalyzed. He is without a doubt a fantastic filmmaker, but the dialogue in his movies get really annoying. Too much about Batman or Gotham being a symbol, too.

I always feel a film like The Amazing Spider-Man is such a breathe of fresh air because it feels so much more natural, genuine, honest and real the way those characters talk and behave, compared to Nolan who makes it feel like the characters have planned out long beforehand exactly what they'll say. With Webb's two films I can see myself and other real persons in those characters in the situations they are in and how they talk and behave. I can connect to them alot more. But Nolan has the upper hand when it comes to the feel of thrill, epicness and rush.

I completely agree. I absolutely love the dialogue in TASM, and everything does feel natural. I don't think any of it was that memorable, but when the characters spoke and interacted, it felt smooth.

The Raimi films had some hokey dialogue, and also felt unnatural, but it also felt like it was taken right out of a comic book IMO. That can be viewed either as a good or bad thing. But it never bothered me that much.

It's pretty funny I think that Webb has very realistic personalities, behaviour, dialogue/monologue to characters in an extremely unrealistic world, whereas Nolan has a very grounded (in CBM standards) take on Batman's world but with very unrealistic dialogue/monologue and to some extent, unrealistic amount of luck and chance.

Very interesting.

Speaking of chance, I know that The Joker always has a plan, and is extremely intelligent. But there are just some things I didn't buy in TDK. For instance, in the opening scene, the Joker just happened to assume that the bus would crash right through the bank wall right on time before he would get shot?

or he would get in the bus in time to get right in the middle of the line of school buses?

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Spiderdevil

Besides the trailer,I never had a problem in understanding his words,its the accent which sounded terrible to me

I loved the accent even. Gave Bane a sort of distinguished, older sound since Hardy's Bane was supposed to be at least twenty years older than Talia.

I never felt that he was doing anything extraordinary.

Broke the Bat, uncovered the Dent lie, brought martial law to Gotham.

Its not the plan that was unintelligent,but how the plan was written.
How did he assume that the whole police force would be sent down into the sewers? What does he even mean by 'Take control of your city' when he is going to blast it anyway? He totally got Ra's al ghul plans upside down,how is it intelligent to blast himself within the city?Why dont they press the trigger and blast it instead of being chased through half of Gotham.It never made sense to leave Bruce Wayne alive and keep him in a place from where he could escape

Nolan's writing of making the villain assume everything. The same happened with Joker and how his plans went flawless and yet no one questions how that happened because we only see Ledger's Joker and not how he's able to get by with so many things and no one apparently notices, lol.

Needless to say, yes, rather intelligent, the plan itself wasn't written truly well, but the most of it makes sense. 'Take control of your city', a fable of Gothamites taking control of their city that never happens where only the criminals push everyone else around.

And...how is Bane getting Ra's al Ghul's plan upside down? Didn't Ra's himself want to sacrifice himself as well?

Plus, seeing as how only Talia escaped that pit in years and years since its creation, I could understand how no one believed Bruce would have escaped the Pit.

It was very lazy writting on Nolan's part,I never expected lazy writting from Nolan of all people

Needless to say,using Batman or Robin as a means of comparison and saying he is better is harldy a complement

Lazy writing? Hah, not the slightest. Rushed? Perhaps, especially if Christopher Nolan had to indeed shorten an original, rumored, 400 page draft.

And "needless to say", comparing Batman & Robin's BANE to TDKR's BANE is a compliment when those are the only two live-action versions of Bane I can compare

Anyone can die from a canon missile but do you expect the main villian to be killed off so quickly and unceremoniously? It totally felt like Nolan wanted to get Bane out of the way to focus on the 'main' villian which was Talia.
Again Lazy writting

Lol, once again, not lazy writing. You're confusing lazy with rush. Bane died quickly, yes, but it wasn't easy and showed what kind of fire power had to kill this monster that was in this film.

And no...Talia was not the 'main' villain. If that's the case, Venom might as well be called the main villain in Spider-Man 3 since the film built up to him.

The way GG died in SM1 was great,the irony of getting killed with his own hands.Same with DocOck,the way he redeemed himself(I will not die a monstor),same with Harry's death in SM3(it was really emotional),even Ra's death was great(I will not kill you,but I dont have to save you).I always want the villian to die epicly

So you enjoyed a death that contradicted Batman's one rule? Pleasant.

There is nothing to suggest anything
Where they lovers? Sibling-like? Partners?
Which is why is used the word 'ambiguous'
And the back story is never explained properly

What do you need help on with the back story? As I said, I can help ya out there

And with Talia calling him a friend, that's all I need to know that they were not lovers, nor could they ever be if Bane could never keep that mask off for a certain amount of time, or would it be odd that someone much older would be in a relationship with Talia when he protected her at a very young age. They were only friends and Talia was Bane's real-life Osito.

William Dafoe*

There are a few things I look in a villian and Bane has none of them
Intimidating? No
Genius Plan? No
Great Back story? No
Excellent action sequences? They were Okay
Legacy? No
Great Acting? Again just okay

Intimidating? Yes. Did anyone else break Batman in the series? Has anyone else snapped so many necks throughout the film?

Genius plan? I would think you would say yes since you did say

Its not the plan that was unintelligent

Great back story? Enough of a backstory as much as Selina Kyle to understand where they're coming from that turned Bane from a monster to a real human being during Talia's reveal.

Excellent action sequences? Two very well fight scenes against Batman.

Legacy? Speaking on terms of the film or if he'll be memorable as a villain?

Great acting? Top notch acting.

And the movie would be 5 hours long

Yah, makes sense...not. The filmed scenes that weren't used would have only made up about twenty more minutes.

Originally Posted by The Joker

Agreed. Bane's plan was a horrendous mess. It made no sense. It was just a long drawn out pointless siege where nothing happened in it except a few Cops and rich people got killed. That's it. It was only done to give Bruce time to recover and train himself back up in the pit and then magically get back to Gotham.

Bane could have pulled the trigger on that bomb within 2 weeks and the end result would have been the same.

It's called theatricality. I could say the same that Joker could have blown up the two ships as soon as Batman tried to stop him, but Joker was trying to show off as much as Bane and Talia was.

Originally Posted by Oscorp

Was a nice touch to me. I admit that I didn't like it at first but I have no problem with it anymore.



He broke Batman.




I agree here with alot of what you say and I have had the same problem with all of Nolan's films (that I've watched). He relies heavily on chance and luck to the point that it sometimes feels ridiculous and far fetched. All of that to make everything seem smarter than it is and epic. Alot of what Joker managed to do looked clever but was very much based on luck. It's not a huge issue I have because sometimes you have to go that route to make it flow nicely and feel epic, but it doesn't always work for me.

The "Take control of your city" was connected to the longer speech outside the Blackgate Prison. He means that the ordinary citiziens should take back the city from the rich and corrupt. It was all part of this whole "revolution" agenda he used to give the people false hope.

Bane wanted Gotham to die a slow death. Like he said to Bruce in the prison: he's a torturer of the soul. It's worse to die slowly and painful than quickly. However I must admit that it felt too much like an easy way for the writers to give Bruce all this time to build up himself. It didn't feel natural. It's very much like that typical stereotype villain who, when it seems like he has the upper hand against the hero, starts to unnecessarily brag about his whole plan, instead of just giving the final blow and be done with it, just long enough to let the hero come up with a way to defeat him.

So I understand why it feels lazy to some and I might say too that it felt a little lazy. But it still worked fine to me.



I also like when villains have memorable deaths but it made alot of sense how Nolan chose to kill Bane. Actually, I really like his death because it showed that no one, not even the biggest and baddest, is immortal. I felt there was alot of thought put into his death, no matter how simple and "easy" it looked.



He's one of the most intimidating CBM villains out there. His whole presence was badass.

Genius plan? Well, up until he decided to let Gotham breathe for 5 months it was pretty genious.

Great back story? I actually loved the backstory and how it was a mystery until the very end.

Action was much improved in TDKR I'd say. But the action shouldn't be anywhere near Spider-Man for example because they are so different. It's not possible to have the same spectacular action.

I don't know what you mean with legacy. It probably won't have the same impact as TDK but that's because it follows in the same vein already. But it will be remembered as one of the few good final film in a trilogy, that makes the trilogy as a whole one of the first great ones.

Agree with all of this

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

I mentioned that Gordon's final speech in TDK felt like he was pulling words out of a hat. It just didn't feel real. It sounded cool, but it was utterly ridiculous. With Nolan, everything is overly poetic or overanalyzed. He is without a doubt a fantastic filmmaker, but the dialogue in his movies get really annoying. Too much about Batman or Gotham being a symbol, too.

The trilogy is definitely supposed to be this poetic act if you listen to really, all the dialogue throughout the trilogy so I don't see how the TDK speech gets the most hate. It doesn't come off as natural as films like Avengers and TAS-M, but the TDK speech is written that way as a reason.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

The trilogy is definitely supposed to be this poetic act if you listen to really, all the dialogue throughout the trilogy so I don't see how the TDK speech gets the most hate. It doesn't come off as natural as films like Avengers and TAS-M, but the TDK speech is written that way as a reason.

I understand that the dialogue was intentionally written poetically, but there is a limit. I think it was really overdone and made the dialogue really annoying, especially in TDK and TKDR. Batman Begins had that one quote, "Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me," which was cool. But overall, the movie as a whole didn't overanalyze everything. It was just a Batman story.

I also never liked how Alfred came out with a speech he probably practiced in the mirror hours before so he could get it right.

Aunt May had that "there's a hero in all of us" speech in SM2, and although it came off as hokey, it doesn't give me a headache. I always saw this as Aunt May saying she knows Peter is Spider-Man...

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

It's called theatricality.

No, it's called needless plot filler.

I could say the same that Joker could have blown up the two ships as soon as Batman tried to stop him, but Joker was trying to show off as much as Bane and Talia was.

Then you missed the whole point of Joker's social experiment with those ships. He wanted to prove the people themselves would blow each other up ("What were you trying to prove, that did down everyone's as ugly as you?"). He gave them til midnight to do it. If he pulled the trigger before the deadline then that defeats the purpose of the whole thing.

[Picard Sisko]

I think we need to stop talking about the Batman movies here... Spider-Man boards, remember?

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

I think we need to stop talking about the Batman movies here... Spider-Man boards, remember?

Yeah, but it is a thread where we're ranking comic book movies. It is inevitable other ones besides Spider-Man's will be discussed, and why they're worthy of being ranked high or low.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

I understand that the dialogue was intentionally written poetically, but there is a limit. I think it was really overdone and made the dialogue really annoying, especially in TDK and TKDR. Batman Begins had that one quote, "Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me," which was cool. But overall, the movie as a whole didn't overanalyze everything. It was just a Batman story.

I also never liked how Alfred came out with a speech he probably practiced in the mirror hours before so he could get it right.

Aunt May had that "there's a hero in all of us" speech in SM2, and although it came off as hokey, it doesn't give me a headache. I always saw this as Aunt May saying she knows Peter is Spider-Man...

Ehh, I didn't think either TDK or TDKR reached a limit, though. The dialogue fitted fine since I got the reason of why such kind of dialogue is used.

Originally Posted by The Joker

No, it's called needless plot filler.

What you call plot filler, not me.

Then you missed the whole point of Joker's social experiment with those ships. He wanted to prove the people themselves would blow each other up. He gave them til midnight to do it. If he pulled the trigger before the deadline then that defeats the purpose of the whole thing.

What's the difference of Joker making a point and Bane making a point by giving Gotham false hope through martial law then?

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

What you call plot filler, not me.

Yeah, we got that.

Lol, he had a point that lasted for a while until Batman even shows up in which case he could have destroyed the two ships.

What difference does Batman showing up make? Is Batman trying to stop him going to make the people on the ship not blow each other up? No. Of course not. Batman had nothing to do with what the people on the ferries were doing.

A social experiment was going to end up as a failure anyways since they were one boat was never going to destroy the other and vice versa.

But the Joker didn't know that did he. Nobody had faith in them except Batman, who was the only one who had faith in Gotham's people to not kill each other. Joker thought they would do it and so did Gordon. Even the people on the ferries were sure they were going to die.

What's the difference of Joker making a point and Bane making a point by giving Gotham false hope through martial law?

Joker's point was going to be proven or disproven in 30 minutes. Quick and efficient. Bane's dragged on for 5 months.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Yeah, but it is a thread where we're ranking comic book movies. It is inevitable other ones besides Spider-Man's will be discussed, and why they're worthy of being ranked high or low.

True. But it has been turned into a Batman forum at this point.

Does anyone think the upcoming Fantastic 4 reboot will stand a chance as one of the top Comic Book movies? They are such an important part of the Marvel Universe, and the previous 2 movies were such a poor representation of the characters.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Yeah, we got that.

Good

What difference does Batman showing up make? Is Batman trying to stop him going to make the people on the ship not blow each other up? No.

Batman knew they weren't going to destroy each other though. Only Joker viewed everyone as twisted as he is.

But the Joker didn't know that did he. Nobody had faith in them except Batman, who was the only one who had faith in Gotham's people to not kill each other. Joker thought they would do it and so did Gordon. Even the people on the ferries were sure they were going to die.

True, but still, I would think Joker would have tried to get his way from the beginning. What if Joker didn't keep up with Batman until midnight? Would've turned his plans upside down with both boats not destroying one another.

But, I did delete a couple things on my reply as I didn't want to continue that talk of the ferries and what not, but you got them before, hah.

Joker's point was going to be proven or disproven in 30 minutes. Quick and efficient. Bane's dragged on for 5 months.

You just simply don't like the five month-long plan, though. I think it's as smart as Joker's whole social experiment.

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

True. But it has been turned into a Batman forum at this point.

Does anyone think the upcoming Fantastic 4 reboot will stand a chance as one of the top Comic Book movies? They are such an important part of the Marvel Universe, and the previous 2 movies were such a poor representation of the characters.

The Fantastic Four reboot? Haha, probably not. FOX's idea of creating their own Marvel universe could definitely fall flat on its face.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

The Fantastic Four reboot? Haha, probably not. FOX's idea of creating their own Marvel universe could definitely fall flat on its face.

Do we know that they are really making a Marvel Universe though? And what does that have to do with the individual movie?

[Anno_Domini]

I believe First Class and The Wolverine are the "stepping stones" of said universe.

And the second sentence was solely about the universe, not the individual film.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Batman knew they weren't going to destroy each other though. Only Joker viewed everyone as twisted as he is.

Gordon: "Every second those people on the ferries get closer to blowing each other up"

Batman's singular faith in Gotham's people doesn't make Joker's plan flawed in any way just because Batman didn't share Joker's warped view of humanity.

True, but still, I would think Joker would have tried to get his way from the beginning.

How would he do that? He can't physically force anyone to push the button. That defeats the purpose of the experiment. "When the chips are down these civilized people they'll eat each other".

What if Joker didn't keep up with Batman until midnight? Would've turned his plans upside down with both boats not destroying one another.

That's as pointless as asking what if any villain was not able to deal with the hero. Joker set himself up in the Prewitt building with an army of armed henchmen and a ton of hostages. He had 30 minutes on the clock.

What are the odds of something going wrong in that short time space compared to 5 long months of sitting around killing rich people?

There is no logical reason in the world for that to go on for 5 months.

You just simply don't like the five month-long plan, though. I think it's as smart as Joker's whole social experiment.

You haven't given any good reasons why you believe that. You're comparing a 30 minute plan set up to a 5 month one. hat plot is easier to foil, one that gives you 30 minutes to do something, or one that gives you 5 months worth of time? It's ridiculous and Bane's siege will lose to logic every single time.

[Picard Sisko]

I thought that "The Wolverine" was supposed to be a solo movie, and have nothing to do with any of the other films? It would be cool if they did tie it into the First Class/DOFP movies though.

I think it would be cool if all of the movies were "connected" somehow, like perhaps they reference the events of one film in another, but they shouldn't do anything where all the characters team up or appear together in one movie like in the Avengers.

[C. Lee]

I've never been one to give absolute ranks to movies. I rank them in groups....great to terrible. But nothing absolute. Nothing is at the absolute top or bottom of the list. It's just my personal way of doing things.

To me, some of the best comic book related movies, in no particular order, are -

Superman the Movie
Superman II the Donner Cut
The Road to Perdition
Hellboy
Hellboy II:the Golden Army
The Avengers
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Captain America the First Avenger
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
Blade
Blade II
Batman Begins
X-Men
X-2
X-Men First Class
Watchmen
Spider-Man
Spider-Man II
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Dick Tracy
DareDevil the Director's Cut


I'm sure I left out some.

[SpideyFan866]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

I've never been one to give absolute ranks to movies. I rank them in groups....great to terrible. But nothing absolute. Nothing is at the absolute top or bottom of the list. It's just my personal way of doing things.

To me, some of the best comic book related movies, in no particular order, are -

Superman the Movie
Superman II the Donner Cut
The Road to Perdition
Hellboy
Hellboy II:the Golden Army
The Avengers
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Captain America the First Avenger
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
Blade
Blade II
Batman Begins
X-Men
X-2
X-Men First Class
Watchmen
Spider-Man
Spider-Man II
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Dick Tracy
DareDevil the Director's Cut


I'm sure I left out some.

I agree with this entire list, though I would personally add The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

I've never been one to give absolute ranks to movies. I rank them in groups....great to terrible. But nothing absolute. Nothing is at the absolute top or bottom of the list. It's just my personal way of doing things.

To me, some of the best comic book related movies, in no particular order, are -

Superman the Movie
Superman II the Donner Cut
The Road to Perdition
Hellboy
Hellboy II:the Golden Army
The Avengers
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Captain America the First Avenger
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
Blade
Blade II
Batman Begins
X-Men
X-2
X-Men First Class
Watchmen
Spider-Man
Spider-Man II
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Dick Tracy
DareDevil the Director's Cut


I'm sure I left out some.

Cool!

Personally, I would have taken out X-Men, Dick Tracy, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Iron Man 2, and the Blade Movies, and would have added "The Dark Knight" and "The Amazing Spider-Man." But I like your list!

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Gordon: "Every second those people on the ferries get closer to blowing each other up"

Batman's singular faith in Gotham's people doesn't make Joker's plan flawed in any way just because Batman didn't share Joker's warped view of humanity.

Gordon could have had faith though, but not for the criminals, as they are...criminals. Still, Gordon's faith is definitely not as warped as Joker. You have to admit that.

How would he do that? He can't physically force anyone to push the button. That defeats the purpose of the experiment. "When the chips are down these civilized people they'll eat each other".

Blow them both up if he couldn't handle Batman until the clock strikes midnight.

That's as pointless as asking what if any villain was not able to deal with the hero. Joker set himself up in the Prewitt building with an army of armed henchmen and a ton of hostages. He had 30 minutes on the clock.

What are the odds of something going wrong in that short time space compared to 5 long months of sitting around killing rich people?

There is no logical reason in the world for that to go on for 5 months.

How is saying that pointless? It brings up a good point of what would've happened if Joker couldn't hold up his own until midnight seeing as how the people in the boats didn't decide to blow up one another. Joker still waited until midnight to keep up with his social experiment as much as Bane kept with that lie of 'false hope'.

You haven't given any good reasons why you believe that. You're comparing a 30 minute plan set up to a 5 month one. hat plot is easier to foil, one that gives you 30 minutes to do something, or one that gives you 5 months worth of time? It's ridiculous and Bane's siege will lose to logic every single time.

Hey, one would easily say Bane's siege will lose to logic if said person doesn't like the idea that much, but I love it. I love the idea of Bane giving false hope to Gotham City by making people think as long as they continue with martial law, Gotham will not be destroyed. Dangling this hope which parallels the dangling hope of getting out of the Pit which is what Bruce is trying to achieve. Thematically, it works.

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

I thought that "The Wolverine" was supposed to be a solo movie, and have nothing to do with any of the other films? It would be cool if they did tie it into the First Class/DOFP movies though.

I think it would be cool if all of the movies were "connected" somehow, like perhaps they reference the events of one film in another, but they shouldn't do anything where all the characters team up or appear together in one movie like in the Avengers.

Finally, there is the X-Men movie universe, which currently sees Walk the Line and 3:10 to Yuma director James Mangold working with star Hugh Jackman on the Samurai-themed Wolverine 2. Meanwhile, X-Men: First Class director Matthew Vaughn and Bryan Singer are using time travel story mechanics for the iconic X-Men storyline (and First Class sequel film) Days of Future Past, which is expected to be a kind of reset button for the convoluted X-Men movie continuity - possibly the launchpad for the entire shared FMU.

X-Men: First Class, The Wolverine, X-Men: Days of Future Past. Right now, all three are supposed to be in the same universe, but once more, FOX's old ways of ****ing up continuity comes into play as it's already been stated The Wolverine takes place after X-Men: The Last Stand, unless X-Men 3 does stay in that continuity as well and Days of Future Past rectifies mistakes made in X3.

Originally Posted by C. Lee

I've never been one to give absolute ranks to movies. I rank them in groups....great to terrible. But nothing absolute. Nothing is at the absolute top or bottom of the list. It's just my personal way of doing things.

To me, some of the best comic book related movies, in no particular order, are -

Superman the Movie
Superman II the Donner Cut
The Road to Perdition
Hellboy
Hellboy II:the Golden Army
The Avengers
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Captain America the First Avenger
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
Blade
Blade II
Batman Begins
X-Men
X-2
X-Men First Class
Watchmen
Spider-Man
Spider-Man II
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Dick Tracy
DareDevil the Director's Cut


I'm sure I left out some.

The two Hellboy films seem to not be appreciated lately, so it's nice to see them show up on someone's list.

Originally Posted by SpideyFan866

I agree with this entire list, though I would personally add The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

X-Men: First Class, The Wolverine, X-Men: Days of Future Past. Right now, all three are supposed to be in the same universe, but once more, FOX's old ways of ****ing up continuity comes into play as it's already been stated The Wolverine takes place after X-Men: The Last Stand, unless X-Men 3 does stay in that continuity as well and Days of Future Past rectifies mistakes made in X3.

If the original timeline counts in this series, then the continuity is already messed up. The Wolverine cannot take place after X3 and be a part of the First Class series.

[C. Lee]

The funny thing about the Hellboy movies, I have yet to read a Hellboy comic. Back when the first one was being made, people posted pics from many different issues of his comics to show what it was about and how it was staying pretty close to the source material. So I had an idea what he was all about and who various characters were....but I really didn't have any great desire to read the books. But I liked the look of the movie and the people involved in it. And for me they are a couple of my favorite comic book related movies. Many many times when they play on TV, my wife or I will put the TV to that channel to have them in the background.

When Superman the movie first came out at the theaters, I was not a big Superman/DC comics fan. I read and collected religiously dozens of Marvel books, but just sporaticlly read anything DC. The Superman movie was so well done, I absolutely loved it and have watched it so many times that I can't begin to give the number count (I know that starting watching it decades before many other of the comic movies helps with the high count, but having kids, and it being good for kids to watch helped a lot too).

For me, Superman II was always a love/hate situation. The super battle in it was the closest to an actual comic book super battle put on film for years....but much of the sophomoric humor and non comic canon super powers really screwed with it for me. The Donner cut released a few years ago, while not perfect, corrected so many of the problems for me it lifted it high in my ratings.

[Juicy J]

Wait why can't The Wolverine take place after X3?
Actually if this contains spoilers then I'm not sure I really want to know..

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Gordon could have had faith though, but not for the criminals, as they are...criminals.

You're going into territory the movie doesn't even cover. Gordon could have, but it's not the impression he gives. He's desperate to act before the people blow each other up. That's what we're shown.

You can theorize what Gordon might have been feeling all you like. I'm not discussing conjecture.

Still, Gordon's faith is definitely not as warped as Joker. You have to admit that.

Of course. But in this situation he was as certain as the Joker was that the ferries were going to blow.

Blow them both up if he couldn't handle Batman until the clock strikes midnight.

Again that would defeat the whole entire purpose of the experiment. It's like you missed the point Joker was trying to make here. He wasn't blowing them up just for giggles. Blowing them up before midnight serves no purpose at all. The only reason he had to blow them up was for punishment if they didn't blow each other up by midnight.

"At midnight I blow you all up. If however one of you presses the button I'll let that boat live"

How is saying that pointless? It brings up a good point of what would've happened if Joker couldn't hold up his own until midnight seeing as how the people in the boats didn't decide to blow up one another.

Whether he loses against Batman or not, it makes no difference for two obvious reasons;

1. He still finds out one way or another if the people will blow each other up or not

2. He still has Harvey as his ace in the hole. His whole battle for Gotham's soul did not rest entirely on this ferries set up, as he pointed out clearly in the movie

Joker still waited until midnight to keep up with his social experiment as much as Bane kept with that lie of 'false hope'.

The difference is Bane didn't need 5 months to instill false hope into Gotham. Mere weeks would have achieved that. Joker on the other hand gave the people on the ferries a mere 30 minutes to decide if they wanted thousands of deaths on their hands. That's a tiny amount of time to decide if you want to take thousands of lives.

Makes a lot more sense than what Bane was doing.

Hey, one would easily say Bane's siege will lose to logic if said person doesn't like the idea that much, but I love it. I love the idea of Bane giving false hope to Gotham City by making people think as long as they continue with martial law, Gotham will not be destroyed. Dangling this hope which parallels the dangling hope of getting out of the Pit which is what Bruce is trying to achieve. Thematically, it works.

It's got nothing to do with liking the idea. I'd like the idea just fine if it made sense to drag out the siege for 5 months. But it didn't. What difference does it make 5 weeks or 5 months later to blow up Gotham?

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Juicy J

Wait why can't The Wolverine take place after X3?
Actually if this contains spoilers then I'm not sure I really want to know..

If the Wolverine takes place after X3 and is also connected to the First Class/DOFP movies, then there would be many continuity errors.

[Juicy J]

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

If the Wolverine takes place after X3 and is also connected to the First Class/DOFP movies, then there would be many continuity errors.

How so? Is this taking into account details of the new film that I just don't know since I've been avoiding spoilers, or is this information derived from things presented in the aforementioned previous films that I must've forgotten about?

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by Juicy J

How so? Is this taking into account details of the new film that I just don't know since I've been avoiding spoilers, or is this information derived from things presented in the aforementioned previous films that I must've forgotten about?

Let me give you an example. In X-Men 3, you see an older Professor X and Magneto recruiting Jean Grey to go to his school. In First Class, they go around recruiting people years earlier when they were young, and became enemies shortly after. These two events cannot co-exist, unless DOFP uses time travel to somehow explain this....

ALSO

In X2, we see Hank McCoy on the television, and we hear about his "accident." In First Class, he transforms into Beast many years prior.