Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by dnno1

The Senate already passed a bill and they are waiting on the House. The blame does go on Boehner and Co.

You'd blame Boehner and Co. no matter what. The Senate hasn't passed any bill regarding budgetary matters in quite some time.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Originally Posted by hippie_hunter

And it's not like Reid is doing anything asides from shooting down any GOP ideas, and then he has the gall to give them all of the blame when the blame should go to both the GOP and Democrats.

So they're basically playing games?

Surely the chuckleheads have a plan in place to allow their shennanigans? There's no way they'd throw us all off the cliff in the name of their silly rivalry?

[Trainwreck2100]

Didn't the republicans sign a paper saying they wouldn't vote for raising taxes? I doubt Obama gives in to them again.

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100

Didn't the republicans sign a paper saying they wouldn't vote for raising taxes? I doubt Obama gives in to them again.

The GOP has basically accepted that taxes for the super wealthy will go up. They're pretty much debating where the line is. Obama is arguing for taxes to go up on those making more than $250,000/year. The GOP is arguing for taxes to go up on those making more than $1 million/year. And many prominent GOP members have pretty much thrown Norquist's pledge out the window.

[wiegeabo]

Split the difference and make it $500,000.

$250,000 sounds like a lot, but not if you're in one of the professions like medicine that carry a huge amount of educational debt.

Although, are we talking about $250,000 single or married/jointly?

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by wiegeabo

Split the difference and make it $500,000.

$250,000 sounds like a lot, but not if you're in one of the professions like medicine that carry a huge amount of educational debt.

Although, are we talking about $250,000 single or married/jointly?

I dunno. I think $1 million seems a bit fair because at $250,000, sure it's well off in certain areas like where I live. But in more urban areas like NYC and San Fransisco, $250,000 means that people are still going to have to make ends meet due to high living costs of those areas. And as you say, certain professions have a huge amount of educational debt.

[childeroland]

So what exactly are they fighting over? What are the chances they agree on something before Monday? How long after Monday (if they miss the deadline) till they sign a deal?

[enterthemadness]

Just go over the damn cliff...I don't care, start a new recession and watch the chaos. Might be better in the long run, who knows, maybe ''We The People'' will look outside the two party system in droves.

Of course that new red neck WV reality show knock off of Jersey Shore could be a big hit, so I probably don't know jack...

[Fading]

It is frustrating that our elected representatives (on both sides) would first let our credit rating take a hit, and now let us face an uncertain economic problem (for lack of a better word as it's not quite a crisis) over party line pride. If we go over this, I hope there's a major shake up in 2014. That if enough of them get voted out that it sends a clear message that the people are sick of obstructionist politicians who can't get anything done, and take more vacation days than they work.

Even if they come to a deal Monday, it will still have been another case of needing a ton of pressure to do their job. Personally, I think Boener loses his speakership for this (Reid should lose his leadership as well, IMO). He alienated his caucus, they wouldn't vote on his plan. I think it shows he's lost all power to bring his side to the table. Obama, despite making a few pleas, isn't showing great leadership skills either. He does atleast have a re-election, and the support of a majority of citizens (according to election day polling) to back up why he's not budging as much this time. Unlike Boener who is just an island to himself right now, at odds with the Dems, and his own party.

I know the tax hike will affect everyone, and stocks will plunge from uncertainty (though they probably will anyway this late in the game, deal or not). People on unemployment will probably feel the squeeze first though. Side note, I saw a graph on the news of popularity, congress is lower than watergate Nixon, and the US turning communist, lol.

[Paradoxium]

Are you ****ing kidding me.

Obama Orders Pay Raise for Biden, Members of Congress, Federal Workers

[enterthemadness]

Originally Posted by Fading

It is frustrating that our elected representatives (on both sides) would first let our credit rating take a hit, and now let us face an uncertain economic problem (for lack of a better word as it's not quite a crisis) over party line pride. If we go over this, I hope there's a major shake up in 2014. That if enough of them get voted out that it sends a clear message that the people are sick of obstructionist politicians who can't get anything done, and take more vacation days than they work.

Even if they come to a deal Monday, it will still have been another case of needing a ton of pressure to do their job. Personally, I think Boener loses his speakership for this (Reid should lose his leadership as well, IMO). He alienated his caucus, they wouldn't vote on his plan. I think it shows he's lost all power to bring his side to the table. Obama, despite making a few pleas, isn't showing great leadership skills either. He does atleast have a re-election, and the support of a majority of citizens (according to election day polling) to back up why he's not budging as much this time. Unlike Boener who is just an island to himself right now, at odds with the Dems, and his own party.

I know the tax hike will affect everyone, and stocks will plunge from uncertainty (though they probably will anyway this late in the game, deal or not). People on unemployment will probably feel the squeeze first though. Side note, I saw a graph on the news of popularity, congress is lower than watergate Nixon, and the US turning communist, lol.

Who? Sorry bud, but I don't see 3rd parties gaining any power house slots in 2014. Maybe make some noise, but I dunno. You think more R's and D's in power...please. They got us into this mess, you expect them to get us out? Please...

Originally Posted by Paradoxium

Are you ****ing kidding me.

Obama Orders Pay Raise for Biden, Members of Congress, Federal Workers

Yeah, it looks bad on paper...like it should. Only a 0.5% increase...only $900 more a year in pay...but still...wrong message.

[Paradoxium]

These clowns should be taking a paycut much less a hike. There needs to be a way to link the deficit to their pensions.

[Spider-Who?]

Originally Posted by enterthemadness

Who? Sorry bud, but I don't see 3rd parties gaining any power house slots in 2014. Maybe make some noise, but I dunno. You think more R's and D's in power...please. They got us into this mess, you expect them to get us out? Please...



Yeah, it looks bad on paper...like it should. Only a 0.5% increase...only $900 more a year in pay...but still...wrong message.

It looks bad on paper because it is bad, period. It's 1 billion dollars more each year. It's totally irresponsible. Not only can we NOT afford it, but they don't deserve a raise in the slightest.

[Spider-Who?]

Originally Posted by Kelly

oooooh noooooo....I've given my thoughts several times around here, and they haven't changed....

I have stated many times that we should go back to the tax rate of the Clinton years and I WANT TO CUT at least 20% across the board, but would compromise at 10%....and I mean across the board....EVERYONE. My dream would be 25%. IMO, if leaders of these agencies cannot figure out a way to make up 20% of their cost to overcome these cuts, they have no business being in leadership at that level. The budget of schools across the country have had FAR MORE THAN 25% of their budgets cut, and they have figured out ways to make it.....other government agencies can do the same, hell start by cutting out those agencies that simply do what other agencies are supposed to be doing. The excess is mind boggling.

Gotta disagree with this. The cuts in school funding have been devastating to many. The quality of education has gone down, teachers across the board have lost their jobs, and those who haven't remain critically underpayed, all the while paying for supplies the schools ant provide from their own tiny pay checks. My mother was a teacher and after ten years, she only received one raise. For 18 cents. And she was one of the lucky ones.

This same problem has been plaguing government agencies as well. Remember, there are hard working people trying to make a living in these "faceless" agencies that people keep saying need major cuts. With those major cuts, these people's jobs and salaries will, and have been sacrificed already. People act like cutting funding for government programs and agencies is such an easy and victimless thing, but it's not in the slightest. What good is it going to dothe econmy by laying off even more people? I'm not saying cuts shouldn't be made, but that people need to understand the consequences better.

[Fading]

Agreed, just because it's a government job doesn't mean cutting it is just downsizing government. I know a few postal workers, good guys. The post office already almost went under, and a 20% cut could do some serious damage. I'd rather they not lose the jobs they've had for so long. I'd also rather not have delivering mail become a private entity.

I agree with Kelly in that I'd like for wasteful spending to be cut. Cutting 20% or so out of some parts of gov would force them to stop wasteful spending if they want to stay afloat. I just wouldn't want to do it across the board as I don't think every level of government is as wasteful as the next.

For example, I'd undo the above pay raise for congress (which I agree, is ridiculous) and give them a pay cut instead. Maybe further individual pay cuts based on evaluation of what work they actually do. I can't name many other job positions outside of CEO's, where you can take off more than you work, do next to no actual work, cause your company harm based on pride, and still not only have job security, but get a pay raise.

[Siby]

Originally Posted by Paradoxium

Are you ****ing kidding me.

Obama Orders Pay Raise for Biden, Members of Congress, Federal Workers

Wow, that is insane! There needs to be a referendum, at the time of elections, on salaries for government officials in Congress and the other branches.

Also, the salary isn't how these people become filthy rich, so why bother to give them a raise. Not to mention failing to do their job and better the country as a whole. They also get top health insurance for life to boot.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Spider-Who?

Gotta disagree with this. The cuts in school funding have been devastating to many. The quality of education has gone down, teachers across the board have lost their jobs, and those who haven't remain critically underpayed, all the while paying for supplies the schools ant provide from their own tiny pay checks. My mother was a teacher and after ten years, she only received one raise. For 18 cents. And she was one of the lucky ones.

This same problem has been plaguing government agencies as well. Remember, there are hard working people trying to make a living in these "faceless" agencies that people keep saying need major cuts. With those major cuts, these people's jobs and salaries will, and have been sacrificed already. People act like cutting funding for government programs and agencies is such an easy and victimless thing, but it's not in the slightest. What good is it going to dothe econmy by laying off even more people? I'm not saying cuts shouldn't be made, but that people need to understand the consequences better.

I gotta disagree with this....you are looking at the wrong problem. It isn't "how much" money is being thrown at something, it is how that money is being spent. We spend more in education per student than any other country in the world, yet we are still in the middle of the pack in developed countries as far as education. That tells me the problem is not "how much" we are spending, but "how" we are spending it.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Paradoxium

Are you ****ing kidding me.

Obama Orders Pay Raise for Biden, Members of Congress, Federal Workers

I know, this was amazing to me. The way they have done their job in most companies would have gotten them fired, not a raise.

Wow, kind of like education, for some reason we love to keep 15 year bad teachers and get rid of 5 year excellent teachers.

Oh well, gotta love how the government takes care of things.

[Marx]

Senator Reid has now said that there will be no senate vote on the "fiscal cliff" tonight...

[Kelly]

Yep....they deserve that raise.

[enterthemadness]

You lousy two party system...I got the flu...and trying to keep up with the talks...but what I find it mostly crappy.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/30/politi...iff/index.html

Gonna ring in the new year with flu and going over fiscal cliff...

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by Marx

Senator Reid has now said that there will be no senate vote on the "fiscal cliff" tonight...

Not only that but Reid has flat out said in public that the Democrats will not be putting out a counteroffer. Pathetic, this mess has just made Boehner and Reid look flat out incompetent.

[Kelly]

So, what it looks like to me is this....

President Obama won a 2nd term (which is fine, I really didn't care who won) because it looks like that this administration (and probably the Romney administration, had he won) are taking the win as a mandate to do the same ****ing **** that they did for the last 2 years which is absolutely nothing but ***** and whine about the other party. Why did I say 2 years? Because the Obama administration had a majority in both houses and did a little bit of "something" not sure what that is yet, we are still waiting for someone to read it... : )

[Destructus86]

I'm looking forward to falling over the cliff. Then we can move on

[Belvedere]

Politically the best thing that could happen for Obama would be to fall off the cliff.

The opinion polls show that the public would blame Republicans in Congress should it come to pass, which would strengthen Obama's hand at the negotiating table and then he'd receive most of the credit when he eventually got to cut taxes as a result.