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#51 |
Side-Kick
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edit.
Last edited by CGHulk; 12-05-2012 at 01:26 PM. |
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#52 | |
Iron Captain
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If its the younglings, look at the Tusken slaughter. Its an escalation from that.
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#53 | |
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The prequels frustrate me and most other people so much because there are SO many great ideas that are just executed horribly. For one thing the opening of Revenge of the Sith is a great example. The movie begins with the last of the lighthearted adventures of Obi-Wan and Anakin but then suddenly shifts to the place Luke found himself in AT THE END of Jedi. We can't feel the power of the situation when Anakin kills a character that we barely know. The prequels really shouldn't have tried to hide Palpatine was Sidious, it would have made him a bit scarier and made the scenes he's in with the heroes a bit more poignant. Not only that there should have been one antagonist we follow through Episodes I and II, that way Anakin ultimately murders him in III we feel the power of the decision he has just made the way we would have if Luke killed Vader in Jedi. The opening really should have just been happy upbeat music jokes and Obi-Wan and Anakin on a fun adventure we can put our hearts into. Not cutting the music until we reach the captive palpatine to build tension bring the audience back into reality a bit and show them that the happy duo have unwittingly walked into satans chambers. Little things like that would have gone a long way in making the movie better. |
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#54 | |
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#55 | |
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Not to mention the movie was shot with Anakins primary motives being a change of heart believing the Jedi were the true evil in the galaxy (Hense the part where palpatine tells him he's fore-filled his destiny, "From my point of view the Jedi are evil", all the scenes building tension between Anakin and the Jedi, the Jedi asking him to spy on his friend). Then in reshoots and editing Lucas wanted to change Padme to the primary motive. |
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#56 | ||||
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#57 | |||
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#58 | ||||
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As for the choking and the hand chopping, like I said, he was lost to the Dark Side. He was far gone. After he killed Windu there was no escape. |
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#59 | |
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#60 |
Side-Kick
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which would of been portrayed better, with better acting,direction,Dialogue. Alot of things about the prequels would of been made more sense, if the Lucas new how to direct actors and not focus on cgi or how the green screen looks in this scene. I dont blame Hayden, Lucas ruined any post star wars career he could of had, I honestly feel sorry for Him.
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#61 |
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That is something I cannot argue with. I partially agree and disagree.
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#62 | |
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#63 | |
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Palpatine needed the separatist threat in order to get an army of the republic. Okay fair enough, but once the threat was established and he had his army, if all he was going to do was use it to insite martial law, then why not just do it then and there? Also Palpatine already ordered that army to be made over 10 years ago, why not just claim his damn army and take over the defenseless senate? Also if there was no military, why do they need the Clone Army at all? He's already got all of those battle droids, we saw from Naboo that conquering a people without an organized military with those things isn't all that difficult. In addition the whole plot of Attack of the Clones is basically a huge plot hole. Dooku (indirectly Sidious) is attempting to assassinate Padme because she opposes the military creation act. Well wouldn't an idiot like her work to their advantage? As I said early if theres no military to stop the Seperatists, who intend to build a Death Star and act just like the Empire, then they could conquer the galaxy easily. The next plot hole we are immediately given is when Padme says she thinks Count Dooku was behind the attack. What possible logic is there? If she really thinks the Separatists wish to become violent, then why would they want the idiot who's trying to stop the Republic from being able to defend itself dead? That is like a country declaring war on another, but making sure they have Nukes and a well trained military to defend themselves first. I mean look at how the war ended, Palpatine just took his army and told them to kill their Jedi leaders, and there was absolutely no reason he could not have done this at the beginning of the war. He could have executed order 66, killed most of the Jedi, announced a peace treaty with Dooku, used the separatist armies and the clones to take over the galaxy and ruled with Dooku by his side. Why did this not happen? Because the movies were contrived to put Anakin into the Darth Vader and suit Lucas had no one around him to tell him Palpatines plan made no sense. And don't try to defend the whole thing with whatever the book or the video games or the comics have to say about this because I'm not talking about that. Those are all works that were put together from scrapped ideas and different writers, I'm talking about the movies as they stand. |
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#64 |
Side-Kick
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Don't understand the complaints about Anakin being stupid for getting "tricked" into becoming Darth Vader. It's in keeping with Original Trilogy canon.
Lest anyone forget, Palpatine expected to convert Luke after a mere few minutes of taunting. Luke had NO allegiance to Palpatine, no history of repressed anger and resentment comparable to what Anakin grew up with. Palpatine's offer to Luke basically boiled down to "I'm gonna kill your friends now so you might as well side with the winners!" Compared to that, Anakin's seduction was FAR more believable. No wonder it worked on him, and not on Luke (although even Luke still came VERY close to falling to the Dark Side). ROTS Palpatine is a tempter and manipulator. ROTJ Palpatine is a raving maniac. The Original Trilogy makes it clear that using the Force is a two way street. Just as a person can use the Force, the Force can take over a person. Which was why Yoda was so big on the idea that once you fell to the Dark Side, "forever will it dominate your destiny." Falling to the Dark Side is virtually demonic possession, which a person becomes vulnerable to when he allows his anger to go uncontrolled. |
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#65 | |||||||
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People can think whatever they want about the quality of the movies, but arguments based on the logic of the movies should be supported by the facts.
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Last edited by ClarkLuther55; 12-27-2012 at 06:27 PM. |
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#66 | |
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#67 | ||||||||
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#68 |
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You have the right to an opinion, however the majority of critics and the general audience above the age of 14, panned them. From a strictly critical point of view the movies are very lazily made aside for the special effects aspect, and from a strictly critical perspective the story is also subpar. No if you are really going to point to your right to opinion to like the prequels in a threat called "The Anti-Prequel Discussion Thread", then why are you even posting in it? You may disagree with the popular consensus but obviously we do not, so theres no point in posting to say you still have the right to like something we don't, rather than discussing it.
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#69 | ||||||||||
Side-Kick
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Uh, yes it was. It was stated onscreen that it takes ten years to grow the clones to adulthood, even with accelerated aging. We see many clones still at child age, and undergoing training and education. They even said "200,000 units are ready, with a million more well on the way."
The first wave of the clone army was barely getting operational during the movie. This was no momentary thing, but something that was hammered through quite clearly. For someone who complains about the movie so much and seems so sure of yourself, you really don't seem to understand what was going on. Quote:
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"So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause." Quote:
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The Trade Federation and those other corporations were allied with Palpatine's secret Sith identity, but he couldn't even appear to them in person, only as a hologram. Do you think that's what Palpatine wants? To hide away and probably take lots of crap in his real identity, while getting in only some occasional words as a hologram? Palpatine wants total control of the entire galaxy, as the god emperor of everything. Quote:
It's not like extremists have ever assassinated opposing or moderate politicians in real life, right? Quote:
I mean, America had nukes, and the Soviets had nukes, so Soviet = American going by this logic, right? You can't just put your foot down and insist again on things like that while expecting people to just accept your word as complete truth. I see why the others in this thread have had a problem with you insisting on your opinions as fact. Act like that and we have nothing to talk about. Quote:
Why didn't they occupy Coruscant? Why didn't they try to conquer everything, instead of "secede" as they kept saying they were? If you're going to talk about the facts of the movie, you have to deal with the facts. You do not get to customize your own version of things. Quote:
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EDIT: Make no mistake about it, a "peace treaty" would be a clear Separatist victory and a Republic defeat, since the Republic's entire objective is to remain whole. This would make Palpatine look like a weakling and a loser, not the hero who people happily accepted as their new emperor. Also, the Senate and not the Chancellor himself would have to approve a treaty. That's the way it is in real life and in TPM. So your idea is for all the loyal Republic Senators to just surrendur and give up half the Repubic? Why would they agree to that? Quote:
The others were right. I can see that you're just a person with strong opinions that he insists are facts, in defiance of the actual facts. Pretty much a waste of time to talk to you if you carry on like this. Last edited by ClarkLuther55; 12-29-2012 at 01:26 AM. |
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#70 | |
Side-Kick
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None of the prequels scored below 50% on Rotten Tomatoes. You have provided absolutely no source to show that the "majority" of the general audience hated the movies. We do know that all of the prequels did very well at the box office, with big openings and small weekend-to-weekend drops. A Gallup poll from 1999 resulted in almost 80% of people saying that TPM was good or great. AOTC received an average grade of "A-" from CinemaScore audience exit polling. According to Jonathan Bowen, a published author who has written nonfiction books about the prequels, TPM received a CinemaScore grade of "A" and ROTS got a grade of "A+" Those are the facts, with actual sources to back them up. Which isn't so strange, since if the "majority" of the people hated the movies, they wouldn't make so much money. Lots of vocal people on the internet hate the prequels, but equating them with the mainstream majority is basically saying that scifi forums represent the mainstream. As someone who posts on forums myself, I'm honest enough with myself to know that's not true at all. Are you going to just ignore all of the above and repeat your previously stated opinion? |
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#71 |
Banned User
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This page is filled with so much ownage I might just try and have sex with it.
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#72 | |
Side-Kick
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He wasn't a raving maniac. He was still a tempter and he was trying to goad Luke into turning to the dark side. He also offered Luke a chance to replace Vader, who up until this point had been the bane of Luke's existence, the man who had cut off his hand, the father who had killed one of his real father figures in Obi Wan (and perhaps could be charged with Owen and Beru's murders too), tortured his sister, and threatened his friends. Up until this point, Vader was the guy who haunted his dreams and Luke didn't see too fazed by the Emperor, which prompted Yoda's warning to watch out for him. If anything ROTJ Palpatine was more of a boaster, overconfident, and really rusty at the manipulation game. But he never raved. |
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#73 | ||||||
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Also, the Senate would not have to approve anything, Palpatine was elected supreme Chancellor at the end of Episode II with enough power to approve bills without Senatorial permission. "For someone who seems so sure of yourself, you really don't seem to understand what was going on." Quote:
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#74 | |
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#75 | ||||||
Side-Kick
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You are seriously saying that the desire for the biggest gun during a war means matching political philosophy. In total contradiction to everything that was said during the actual movie. The Empire exists as a military dictatorship at the complete service of the Emperor. The Separatists want to...separate (self evident by the name) and "secede" (stated onscreen multiple times). They are in the control of a coalition of various greedy business interests, whom Palpatine can only appear to as a hologram. But oh yeah, wanting a big weapon means they're just the same. You're not even trying to present any logical argument here. As I pointed out before, you're just putting your foot down and repeating yourself, as if insisting harder will convince anyone. EDIT: BTW, I like how you divide the groups into "good guys" and bad guys. Do you really see things that simplistically? As if there can't be different types of villains with different agendas? Quote:
Now you backtrack and say that kidnapping the leader is an "attack on the entire nation," which is not the same thing at all. Your words don't match, and they don't support your previous argument that the Separatists wanted to take over everything (which makes their name an oxymoron). Quote:
The movies made it quite clear that Chancellor was a weak position when Palpatine took that office, and that the Senate held a lot of power. Palpatine dragged out the war and made himself look like a hero so that the Senators would all love and embrace him, and willingly give him more power. As shown by ANH, Palpatine didn't even take total control and dissolve the Senate until two decades later. Quote:
You really think it's better strategy to declare himself God Emperor of everything, after making himself look like a terribly weak and incompetent leader by surrenduring half the Republic (which the Senate can throw him out of office for, see Chancellor Valorum). You really think that the Clone Army is completely sealed off from all other communications to other Republic leaders (completely contradicted by the movies, which show the Senate and the Jedi commanding various parts of it) and that Palpatine can conduct an extended campaign and occupation with them against the Republic, withe EVERYONE against him? EDIT: The Kaminoans clearly indoctrinated the clones to be loyal to the Republic. The Kaminoans ran a legitimate defense business and "had no motive" for evil, as Obi-Wan said himself. The Clone Army was not programmed to destroy and conquer the entire galaxy in defiance of the Republic. This is supposed to be better than most of the Republic loving and willingly submitting themselves to him? And I like how you bring up the Rebellion...who the movies clearly portray as a minority hiding out in a bunch of uninhabited Outer Rim planets. Quote:
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That's what you're basically doing. Repeating yourself, going in circles, and dismissing everything that's brought up by others. Because really, I'm soooo threatened by the guy who thinks "Death Star = matching philosophies on government" I've already wasted too much time on you. Last edited by ClarkLuther55; 12-30-2012 at 01:51 PM. |
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