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Old 12-28-2012, 01:09 PM   #551
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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But I am gunna bring something back up. Kurse. He's sort of been lost in transition here. What to do you guys think his role is going to be? We havent talked about him, and the Kurse thread will probably be dead till we get some art or something.

I think he may be more of an anti-hero in this movie, opposed to just a villain. I am dying to see his look
(As an aside: anti-heroes are most commonly protagonists (such as Batman), and secondly main or prominent characters (such as Han Solo). I'm not certain Kurse will be a main character, but we may well pull for him. He certainly has unheroic qualities to him.)

We had talked a while back about his possibly defeating Malekith and then leading the dark elves in a different direction. I still like that angle.

We saw a lot of footage at the University of Greenwich of Malekith fighting Thor, though. So I wonder when (if?) Kurse will take on Malekith.

Maybe in his Algrim phase he feels like he is defending his homeland ("For Svartalfheim!"?) If Malekith is the one who changes him into Kurse, he may come to feel that the world is more nuanced than he originally thought, and his previous simple-minded patriotism inadequate.

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Old 12-28-2012, 01:11 PM   #552
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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(As an aside: anti-heroes are most commonly protagonists (such as Batman), and secondly main or prominent characters (such as Han Solo). I'm not certain Kurse will be a main character, but we may well pull for him. He certainly has unheroic qualities to him.)

We had talked a while back about his possibly defeating Malekith and then leading the dark elves in a different direction. I still like that angle.

We saw a lot of footage at the University of Greenwich of Malekith fighting Thor, though. So I wonder when (if?) Kurse will take on Malekith.

Maybe in his Algrim phase he feels like he is defending his homeland ("For Svartalfheim!"?) If Malekith is the one who changes him into Kurse, he may come to feel that the world is more nuanced than he originally thought, and his previous simple-minded patriotism inadequate.
honestly, I think it all depends on how algrim is, and how he dies/changes

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Old 12-28-2012, 01:33 PM   #553
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Looking at that bio I linked last page, that is quite a leap for him to go from violently fighthing Thor and trying to kill him, then violent revenge on Malekith, then protector of Asgard's children?????!!? I can't see that working on film. I could still see him becoming the new leader of the Dark Elves maybe, to a more peaceful existence with the rest of the realms, and this would be a good thing for Thor to help accomplish somehow.

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Old 12-28-2012, 01:36 PM   #554
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Looking at that bio I linked last page, that is quite a leap for him to go from violently fighthing Thor and trying to kill him, then violent revenge on Malekith, then protector of Asgard's children?????!!? I can't see that working on film. I could still see him becoming the new leader of the Dark Elves maybe, to a more peaceful existence with the rest of the realms, and this would be a good thing for Thor to help accomplish somehow.
I agree! That makes a lot more sense than becoming a citizen of Asgard.

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Old 12-28-2012, 02:46 PM   #555
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Looking at that bio I linked last page, that is quite a leap for him to go from violently fighthing Thor and trying to kill him, then violent revenge on Malekith, then protector of Asgard's children?????!!? I can't see that working on film. I could still see him becoming the new leader of the Dark Elves maybe, to a more peaceful existence with the rest of the realms, and this would be a good thing for Thor to help accomplish somehow.
yeah lol. Honestly, as long as he gets tricked by malekith, and eventually has shows some hostility towards him, I'd be okay with that.

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Old 12-28-2012, 02:52 PM   #556
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yeah lol. Honestly, as long as he gets tricked by malekith, and eventually has shows some hostility towards him, I'd be okay with that.
But you said a few months back that Kurse HAS TO kill Malekith because that's what he does in the comics! Have you changed your mind on that? It would certainly make it all less predicable if he didn't.

I still want Loki to do it out of revenge for Frigga (and for the BIG magic fight) Thor could, as Lawden's spoilers mention it becomes a vengeance thing, but I really don't think the hero should take revenge, an anti-hero could I think, but not a hero-hero like Thor.

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Old 12-28-2012, 10:19 PM   #557
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But you said a few months back that Kurse HAS TO kill Malekith because that's what he does in the comics! Have you changed your mind on that? It would certainly make it all less predicable if he didn't.

I still want Loki to do it out of revenge for Frigga (and for the BIG magic fight) Thor could, as Lawden's spoilers mention it becomes a vengeance thing, but I really don't think the hero should take revenge, an anti-hero could I think, but not a hero-hero like Thor.
Well I would still prefer it, but it seems like Thor is going have a final battle with malekith, so it seems as if Thor will have the finishing blow. Though I still will prefer Kurse to ill him, it probably won't happen though, so hostility or an attempt will be fine. But there is no point in Kurse though, it's part of his brief character arc so I feel it should be necessary

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Old 12-29-2012, 04:19 AM   #558
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

You know, I'm thinking that a shirtless Loki is very integral to the plot in some manner though I haven't figured out how so yet.

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Old 12-29-2012, 07:45 AM   #559
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Well I would still prefer it, but it seems like Thor is going have a final battle with malekith, so it seems as if Thor will have the finishing blow. Though I still will prefer Kurse to ill him, it probably won't happen though, so hostility or an attempt will be fine. But there is no point in Kurse though, it's part of his brief character arc so I feel it should be necessary
Do you think the Greenwich battle will be the final battle between them though? I'm not so sure now, Kurse could be created or Algrim could be "killed" during that, at one point they were filming with a red glow around Malekith which made me wonder about him creating a chasm/"lava pit" for them to fall into possibly and then Malekith could escape. Certainly if Greenwich is standing in for that English Cotwolds connection with the Dark Elves world, they could fight some of the time in Greenwich and Thor follows them through a portal to Svartalfheim to continue fighting (which may be where Algrim is), either way I don't think we necessarily have a complete picture of the fight.

Clearly Thor is the only Asgardian there fighting, but it certainly could be that Thor defies father and goes down to defend Earth from the Dark Elf invations, earlier on in the film, when there is other threats going on upstairs with the other army attacking Asgard. Maybe his coronation is even interrupted again by the attacks, though that might be too close to what happens in THor 2. I think it would be funny to have a sort of "not again!" moment.

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You know, I'm thinking that a shirtless Loki is very integral to the plot in some manner though I haven't figured out how so yet.
Hmmmmmm.... perhaps he has to take his shirt off to blind the Dark Elves with his body whiteness? LOL (I kid! I kid! )

I have thought it might be interesting and part of the plot if some permanent scarring on his body from his time in the "void" was shown, indicating how much he really went through in there. but I think they'd have to show him in Jotun form for that to work because it seems like the Asgardian illusion should cover that up, or his own magic, although if he's stripped of some of his powers it could work.


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Old 12-29-2012, 08:52 AM   #560
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Do you think the Greenwich battle will be the final battle between them though? I'm not so sure now, Kurse could be created or Algrim could be "killed" during that, at one point they were filming with a red glow around Malekith which made me wonder about him creating a chasm/"lava pit" for them to fall into possibly and then Malekith could escape. Certainly if Greenwich is standing in for that English Cotwolds connection with the Dark Elves world, they could fight some of the time in Greenwich and Thor follows them through a portal to Svartalfheim to continue fighting (which may be where Algrim is), either way I don't think we necessarily have a complete picture of the fight.
I suspect that the footage they shot at the University of Greenwich is for more than one scene. I think the big throwdown Thor has with Malekith is near the end, and a lot of the less exciting footage with nameless dark elves is from early on.

I don't think Algrim is in this scene, because Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje was not on location there. Thor did do some shadowboxing. So it's possible that Kurse is there. (And there is the footage they shot flying over the Thames, and around St. Paul's Cathedral, with no main characters there.)

I do think that the University of Greenwich is serving the role of the castle in the English Cotwolds.

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Clearly Thor is the only Asgardian there fighting, but it certainly could be that Thor defies father and goes down to defend Earth from the Dark Elf invations, earlier on in the film, when there is other threats going on upstairs with the other army attacking Asgard.
I think that's a strong possibility, or that the Earth invasion happens, Thor goes down there, and while he's down there the attack on Asgard happens. (And Bourne Woods happens before either of those two things)

Of course, I don't know how the rumor about Jane in Asgardian garb fits in with this, unless it's some sort of dream sequence.

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Maybe his coronation is even interrupted again by the attacks, though that might be too close to what happens in THor 2. I think it would be funny to have a sort of "not again!" moment.
I think they won't do that. It will look like they are reheating leftovers in the microwave

I think maybe Odin is weakened or incapacitated after the attack on Asgard, and Thor has to be sworn in quickly and not in the time frame people had expected.[/QUOTE]

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Old 12-29-2012, 07:05 PM   #561
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DHmmmmmm.... perhaps he has to take his shirt off to blind the Dark Elves with his body whiteness? LOL (I kid! I kid! )

I have thought it might be interesting and part of the plot if some permanent scarring on his body from his time in the "void" was shown, indicating how much he really went through in there. but I think they'd have to show him in Jotun form for that to work because it seems like the Asgardian illusion should cover that up, or his own magic, although if he's stripped of some of his powers it could work.
I've been toying with this idea like maybe his body is being injured by an unseen attacker using magic. He'd have to be shirtless to show that he is being injured by unseen hands of course.

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Old 12-29-2012, 07:23 PM   #562
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I suspect that the footage they shot at the University of Greenwich is for more than one scene. I think the big throwdown Thor has with Malekith is near the end, and a lot of the less exciting footage with nameless dark elves is from early on.
I agree definitely could be more than one fight filmed there, especially if Greenwich is a doorway and not simply a one time invasion due to a spaceship crashing either. If you recall our lengthy discussion about the column, and how it couldn't have been knocked out by the crashed ship, due to the direction the pillar pieces landed. I think we decided that likely Malekith or Thor were thrown through the pillar from the inside of the building, and then they fight just outside of there where Thor is thrown towards the pillar again. I think though that had a ship crashed it should have done damage to that pillar and is odd it wouldn't hit one of those buildings. This would take care of my concern about Elf spaceships crashing into the palace as well. It might also mean that the ship that menaces and then crashes into the Asgardian palace is not necessarily the Dark Elves ship. Could easily be more than one realm has a problem with Asgard, in fact clearly more than one does considering the Bourne Woods battle.

In any case, I suspect that the report on set that someone said it was a spaceship may have been an incorrect assumption by someone, or the crew just trying to give onlookers something to get them off their back. LOL... I think it could very well be that the upheaval is the result of the portal or doorway opening to the Elf world and then they come out of that chasm that goes right down the PM line. That's my theory at the moment anyway... And in that case, they could come back through the portal more than once, certainly especially if they gain the technology, and/or a person who has knowledge of the technology to make it open again.

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I don't think Algrim is in this scene, because Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje was not on location there. Thor did do some shadowboxing. So it's possible that Kurse is there. (And there is the footage they shot flying over the Thames, and around St. Paul's Cathedral, with no main characters there.)
I think it's possible that Kurse could be in some of the shadow boxing stuff we'd seen there, yes.

Quote:
I think that's a strong possibility, or that the Earth invasion happens, Thor goes down there, and while he's down there the attack on Asgard happens. (And Bourne Woods happens before either of those two things)

Of course, I don't know how the rumor about Jane in Asgardian garb fits in with this, unless it's some sort of dream sequence.
Here is my current speculation for the beginning order of things. Don't ask me how many acts I have here exactly because I have no idea. LOL

According to the Italy footage review it was said that it starts and end of Earth, so first we see Jane and co working on portals on Earth, and maybe touch on her being disappointed/sad that Thor did not return, and trying to move on with her social life... etc...

up on Asgard, Loki has been sentenced to prison, and there is a bit of discussion with Thor Odin and Frigga over that before either Thor or Frigga or both visit Loki in prison and tries to get through to him. But he's very angry and distressed and getting more and more "bag of cats"-ish.
After they leave, I thought it could be interesting if Malekith gets in contact with him trying to strike a deal to help him get out and get revenge on Thor, so that might be a time for Loki to tell Malekith about Thor's interest in Jane. Though this is not completely necessary since the Dark Elves could simply be aware of her due to her research on portals, and not necessarily to do with Thor. But I think it would be an interesting bit to add, and give Malekith all the more reason to see how he can use Jane to his advantage. I might be tempted to keep that a secret betrayal to be revealed later if I were writing though.

So then some time passes, and maybe on Earth we get a sense that something weird is going on around Jane, Erik, and Darcy. Like Malekith is manipulating Jane to do the research there specifically at Greenwich U. for a reason, or an imposter is in their midst manipulating, or something like that... (in the comics one of the DE's pretended to be Lorelei to get to Thor, so they may have this shapeshifting ability in the MCU as well, not necessarily one of the main characters).

Up on Asgard...Thor is finally to be made king, another big ceremony is being planned, but not all the realms are happy about this, such as Vanaheim (including any demons and trolls also living on Vanaheim with the Vanir), and they are plotting, possibly with Malekith to stop it. They know ceremony for Thor is being planned and they must act before Thor is crowned or the fear is he'll be too powerful for them to defeat if he's given the Odinforce. The plan is to attack at the same time and cause the Asgardians to spread themselves thin, and make them easier to defeat.

The ceremony for Thor to be made king is about to begin.

Jane and co succeed in opening portal at Greenwich U and what comes out from the other side is not good. (Dark Elves and Malekith)

Elsewhere on Asgard, they are invaded at the same time (Bourne Woods)
Heimdall sees all this and hurries to tell Odin and Thor interrupting the ceremony, giving us a bit of a "not again" moment, which I think would actually be a bit of a funny moment. They needs some humor I think if the rest is going to be so "dark" and I think if it's done with a bit of humor that it wouldn't seem so much like they are doing the exact same thing. It would have a different tone to it. I just think it could be a funny moment and it fits well into my outline. Plus the audience will see the attacks coming so it's a bit different than in Thor 1, they'll be expecting a "not again" humor moment. LOL

Thor insists on going to Midgard to defend them from the Dark Elf attack, Odin isn't happy as it seems he's more concerned with Midgard than Asgard, but sends him anyway, figuring they have enough warriors to fight off the Asgard attack. Odin sends Sif and Warriors 3 and many Einherjar to the place of the invasion/Bourne woods scenes to fight that threat off. Odin stays behind at the palace with Frigga, in case the palace needs defending as so many Einherjar need to go to Bourne woods. It's my feeling that they may think the Vanir are not that much of a threat, and that would go along with the mythos and the game I mentioned that the Asgardians don't think much of the Vanir as warriors at least.

Unbeknownst to anyone, a ship, cloaked even from Odin and Heimdall's gaze appears, with Dark Elves and led by Algrim, and is headed towards the palace.

Thor fights Malekith and the invading Dark Elves on Midgard, and saves Jane and co. Malekith escapes through the portal and Jane closes it behind him with her little doohickey she carries around.

Sif and co fight on their own in Bourne Woods.

The palace is crashed into by the Dark Elf ship, and they attack the palace. Frigga is dealt a fatal blow, possibly item(s) are taken from Odin's vault before the invaders escape. (possibly the Tesseract, or possibly another item that might make Malekith more powerful and change Algrim into Kurse if there is one)

On Earth, Erik, Jane and Thor sort out how to open a portal to get back to Asgard, he brings Jane with him, either for protection (in which case he'd bring EriK and Darcy too) or just to make things up to her.

Thor returns and finds Frigga dead or dying, and Odin heartbroken. Before she dies Frigga makes Odin promise to find a way to help Loki back to the family and to redeem himself as she loves him as much as she does Thor. Any annoyance Jane might have had at him for not coming to see her quickly lets go as she can see he needs to be comforted in the wake of his mother's death. That moves that relationship forward quite a bit rather quickly (not sexually necessarily just emotionally I mean). Thor perhaps feels some blame on himself for this for leaving Asgard, and then realizes his friends need him in Bourne woods and so he goes off, and maybe Jane stays behind with Odin.

Sif and co have more on their hands with their fight then first thought, and Thor arrives to help fight those invaders off. In the notice about those scene from the studio, it says the two kingdoms are battling and the hero comes to save the day, so it could be that Thor does not come with the rest, he could show up later. It would be good to see Sif and the others fighting without Thor too. The cost is great for the Asgardians but they manage to send those invaders packing as well.

This is a bit more fill in the blanks fan fiction here but bear with me. The remaining warriors return to Asgard with Thor, Thor learns from Odin that he believes Loki's past connection to Vanaheim (due to having been trained in sorcery there during more peaceful times) could help them achieve a truce with them, and get reinforcements needed to defeat the Dark Elves. Thor doesn't like this idea but Odin insists that he may be able to help them come to a truce with them (which is also a plan to give Loki a shot at redemption, per Odin's promise to Frigga before she died). Once they come to a truce with the Vanir they can get them to combine forces with the Asgardians to then take down the now greater threat of the Dark Elves (who not only killed Frigga but took something dangerous from Odin's vault that makes them dangerous to all the realms). Thor has to go visit Loki in prison, tells him about Frigga's death and offers to give him a chance at redemption if he helps with this truce with Vanaheim. Loki agrees. If Loki is the one who tells Malekith about Jane and Thor, he might realize at this point that if Thor hadn't been distracted trying to save Jane and Midgard, that Frigga might still be alive, and so that might be part of why he agrees to help. (though he certainly won't tell Thor that at that time at least...)

The defeated Vanir are angry with Malekith and the Dark Elves that they did not kill or keep Thor distracted as they said they would, and they perhaps feel betrayed, and possibly even manipulated by Malekith. So that opens up the possibility to the audience that a truce may be possible against the Dark Elves. And perhaps Odin also suspects that Malekith manipulating them to get the items in the vault was what Malekith has in mind all along and not necessarily that they would defeat the Asgardians with the help of the Vanir. They are pawns for Malekith (and possibly whoever may be backing him, if he's got another big bad like Surtur or Thanos working behind the scenes in the shadows)

that's all I've got for now...

edit: at the moment I'm thinking time-wise that Thor going to see Loki about helping him would take place at about the same time in Thor 1 that Thor finds himself on Midgard hit by Jane's vehicle.


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Old 12-29-2012, 07:32 PM   #563
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I've been toying with this idea like maybe his body is being injured by an unseen attacker using magic. He'd have to be shirtless to show that he is being injured by unseen hands of course.
Perhaps Malekith summons forth an invisible rabid Loki fangirl and she begins ripping off all his clothes.

It could possibly be the same malevolent spirit that pushes Thor down on the ground in that picture in the caption thread. LOL

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Old 12-29-2012, 08:53 PM   #564
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I agree definitely could be more than one fight filmed there, especially if Greenwich is a doorway and not simply a one time invasion due to a spaceship crashing either. If you recall our lengthy discussion about the column, and how it couldn't have been knocked out by the crashed ship, due to the direction the pillar pieces landed. I think we decided that likely Malekith or Thor were thrown through the pillar from the inside of the building, and then they fight just outside of there where Thor is thrown towards the pillar again. I think though that had a ship crashed it should have done damage to that pillar and is odd it wouldn't hit one of those buildings. This would take care of my concern about Elf spaceships crashing into the palace as well. It might also mean that the ship that menaces and then crashes into the Asgardian palace is not necessarily the Dark Elves ship. Could easily be more than one realm has a problem with Asgard, in fact clearly more than one does considering the Bourne Woods battle.

In any case, I suspect that the report on set that someone said it was a spaceship may have been an incorrect assumption by someone, or the crew just trying to give onlookers something to get them off their back. LOL... I think it could very well be that the upheaval is the result of the portal or doorway opening to the Elf world and then they come out of that chasm that goes right down the PM line. That's my theory at the moment anyway... And in that case, they could come back through the portal more than once, certainly especially if they gain the technology, and/or a person who has knowledge of the technology to make it open again.



I think it's possible that Kurse could be in some of the shadow boxing stuff we'd seen there, yes.



Here is my current speculation for the beginning order of things. Don't ask me how many acts I have here exactly because I have no idea. LOL

According to the Italy footage review it was said that it starts and end of Earth, so first we see Jane and co working on portals on Earth, and maybe touch on her being disappointed/sad that Thor did not return, and trying to move on with her social life... etc...

up on Asgard, Loki has been sentenced to prison, and there is a bit of discussion with Thor Odin and Frigga over that before either Thor or Frigga or both visit Loki in prison and tries to get through to him. But he's very angry and distressed and getting more and more "bag of cats"-ish.
After they leave, I thought it could be interesting if Malekith gets in contact with him trying to strike a deal to help him get out and get revenge on Thor, so that might be a time for Loki to tell Malekith about Thor's interest in Jane. Though this is not completely necessary since the Dark Elves could simply be aware of her due to her research on portals, and not necessarily to do with Thor. But I think it would be an interesting bit to add, and give Malekith all the more reason to see how he can use Jane to his advantage. I might be tempted to keep that a secret betrayal to be revealed later if I were writing though.

So then some time passes, and maybe on Earth we get a sense that something weird is going on around Jane, Erik, and Darcy. Like Malekith is manipulating Jane to do the research there specifically at Greenwich U. for a reason, or an imposter is in their midst manipulating, or something like that... (in the comics one of the DE's pretended to be Lorelei to get to Thor, so they may have this shapeshifting ability in the MCU as well, not necessarily one of the main characters).

Up on Asgard...Thor is finally to be made king, another big ceremony is being planned, but not all the realms are happy about this, such as Vanaheim, and they are plotting, possibly with Malekith to stop it. They know ceremony for Thor is being planned and they must act before Thor is crowned or the fear is he'll be too powerful for them to defeat if he's given the Odinforce. The plan is to attack at the same time and cause the Asgardians to spread themselves thin, and make them easier to defeat.

The ceremony for Thor to be made king is about to begin.

Jane and co succeed in opening portal at Greenwich U and what comes out from the other side is not good. (Dark Elves and Malekith)

Elsewhere on Asgard, they are invaded at the same time (Bourne Woods)
Heimdall sees all this and hurries to tell Odin and Thor interrupting the ceremony, giving us a bit of a "not again" moment, which I think would actually be a bit of a funny moment. They needs some humor I think if the rest is going to be so "dark" and I think if it's done with a bit of humor that it wouldn't seem so much like they are doing the exact same thing. It would have a different tone to it. I just think it could be a funny moment and it fits well into my outline. Plus the audience will see the attacks coming so it's a bit different than in Thor 1, they'll be expecting a "not again" humor moment. LOL

Thor insists on going to Midgard to defend them from the Dark Elf attack, Odin isn't happy as it seems he's more concerned with Midgard than Asgard, but sends him anyway, figuring they have enough warriors to fight off the Asgard attack. Odin sends Sif and Warriors 3 and many Einherjar to the place of the invasion/Bourne woods scenes to fight that threat off. Odin stays behind at the palace with Frigga, in case the palace needs defending as so many Einherjar need to go to Bourne woods.

Unbeknownst to anyone, a ship, cloaked even from Odin and Heimdall's gaze appears, with Dark Elves and led by Algrim, and is headed towards the palace.

Thor fights Malekith and the invading Dark Elves on Midgard, and saves Jane and co. Malekith escapes through the portal and Jane closes it behind him with her little doohickey she carries around.

Sif and co fight on their own in Bourne Woods.

The palace is crashed into by the Dark Elf ship, and they attack the palace. Frigga is dealt a fatal blow, possibly item(s) are taken from Odin's vault before the invaders escape. (possibly the Tesseract, or possibly another item that might make Malekith more powerful and change Algrim into Kurse if there is one)

On Earth, Erik, Jane and Thor sort out how to open a portal to get back to Asgard, he brings Jane with him, either for protection (in which case he'd bring EriK and Darcy too) or just to make things up to her.

Thor returns and finds Frigga dead or dying, and Odin heartbroken. Before she dies Frigga makes Odin promise to find a way to help Loki back to the family and to redeem himself as she loves him as much as she does Thor. Any annoyance Jane might have had at him for not coming to see her quickly lets go as she can see he needs to be comforted in the wake of his mother's death. That moves that relationship forward quite a bit rather quickly (not sexually necessarily just emotionally I mean). Thor perhaps feels some blame on himself for this for leaving Asgard, and then realizes his friends need him in Bourne woods and so he goes off, and maybe Jane stays behind with Odin.

Sif and co have more on their hands with their fight then first thought, and Thor arrives to help fight those invaders off. In the notice about those scene from the studio, it says the two kingdoms are battling and the hero comes to save the day, so it could be that Thor does not come with the rest, he could show up later. It would be good to see Sif and the others fighting without Thor too. The cost is great for the Asgardians but they manage to send those invaders packing as well.

This is a bit more fill in the blanks fan fiction here but bear with me. The remaining warriors return to Asgard with Thor, Thor learns from Odin that he believes Loki's past connection to Vanaheim (due to having been trained in sorcery there during more peaceful times) could help them achieve a truce with them, and get reinforcements needed to defeat the Dark Elves. Thor doesn't like this idea but Odin insists that he may be able to help them come to a truce with them (which is also a plan to give Loki a shot at redemption, per Odin's promise to Frigga before she died). Once they come to a truce with the Vanir they can get them to combine forces with the Asgardians to then take down the now greater threat of the Dark Elves (who not only killed Frigga but took something dangerous from Odin's vault that makes them dangerous to all the realms). Thor has to go visit Loki in prison, tells him about Frigga's death and offers to give him a chance at redemption if he helps with this truce with Vanaheim. Loki agrees. If Loki is the one who tells Malekith about Jane and Thor, he might realize at this point that if Thor hadn't been distracted trying to save Jane and Midgard, that Frigga might still be alive, and so that might be part of why he agrees to help. (though he certainly won't tell Thor that at that time at least...)

The defeated Vanir are angry with Malekith and the Dark Elves that they did not kill or keep Thor distracted as they said they would, and they perhaps feel betrayed, and possibly even manipulated by Malekith. So that opens up the possibility to the audience that a truce may be possible against the Dark Elves. And perhaps Odin also suspects that Malekith manipulating them to get the items in the vault was what Malekith has in mind all along and not necessarily that they would defeat the Asgardians with the help of the Vanir. They are pawns for Malekith (and possibly whoever may be backing him, if he's got another big bad like Surtur or Thanos working behind the scenes in the shadows)

that's all I've got for now...

tldr lol, so if you could paraphase this, that'd be cool lol

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Old 12-29-2012, 09:01 PM   #565
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tldr lol, so if you could paraphase this, that'd be cool lol
Sorry, can't do it, I boiled it down as much as I'm willing and able to do. If i did any more I think too much would be lost in the summarizing. Read it if you get a chance, or don't read it, that's up to you.

and if you do read then go back to the original as I've added a couple thoughts.


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Old 12-29-2012, 09:16 PM   #566
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Sorry, can't do it, I boiled it down as much as I'm willing and able to do. If i did any more I think too much would be lost in the summarizing. Read it if you get a chance, or don't read it, that's up to you.

and if you do read then go back to the original as I've added a couple thoughts.
omg THAT is boiling it down? hahah damn, you may wanna put some ice on your hands :P

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Old 12-29-2012, 09:34 PM   #567
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I think it's cool! I'm going to mull on it a little before composing a more substantive reply, though.

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Old 12-29-2012, 09:57 PM   #568
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I agree definitely could be more than one fight filmed there, especially if Greenwich is a doorway and not simply a one time invasion due to a spaceship crashing either. If you recall our lengthy discussion about the column, and how it couldn't have been knocked out by the crashed ship, due to the direction the pillar pieces landed. I think we decided that likely Malekith or Thor were thrown through the pillar from the inside of the building, and then they fight just outside of there where Thor is thrown towards the pillar again. I think though that had a ship crashed it should have done damage to that pillar and is odd it wouldn't hit one of those buildings. This would take care of my concern about Elf spaceships crashing into the palace as well. It might also mean that the ship that menaces and then crashes into the Asgardian palace is not necessarily the Dark Elves ship. Could easily be more than one realm has a problem with Asgard, in fact clearly more than one does considering the Bourne Woods battle.

In any case, I suspect that the report on set that someone said it was a spaceship may have been an incorrect assumption by someone, or the crew just trying to give onlookers something to get them off their back. LOL... I think it could very well be that the upheaval is the result of the portal or doorway opening to the Elf world and then they come out of that chasm that goes right down the PM line. That's my theory at the moment anyway... And in that case, they could come back through the portal more than once, certainly especially if they gain the technology, and/or a person who has knowledge of the technology to make it open again.



I think it's possible that Kurse could be in some of the shadow boxing stuff we'd seen there, yes.



Here is my current speculation for the beginning order of things. Don't ask me how many acts I have here exactly because I have no idea. LOL

According to the Italy footage review it was said that it starts and end of Earth, so first we see Jane and co working on portals on Earth, and maybe touch on her being disappointed/sad that Thor did not return, and trying to move on with her social life... etc...

up on Asgard, Loki has been sentenced to prison, and there is a bit of discussion with Thor Odin and Frigga over that before either Thor or Frigga or both visit Loki in prison and tries to get through to him. But he's very angry and distressed and getting more and more "bag of cats"-ish.
After they leave, I thought it could be interesting if Malekith gets in contact with him trying to strike a deal to help him get out and get revenge on Thor, so that might be a time for Loki to tell Malekith about Thor's interest in Jane. Though this is not completely necessary since the Dark Elves could simply be aware of her due to her research on portals, and not necessarily to do with Thor. But I think it would be an interesting bit to add, and give Malekith all the more reason to see how he can use Jane to his advantage. I might be tempted to keep that a secret betrayal to be revealed later if I were writing though.

So then some time passes, and maybe on Earth we get a sense that something weird is going on around Jane, Erik, and Darcy. Like Malekith is manipulating Jane to do the research there specifically at Greenwich U. for a reason, or an imposter is in their midst manipulating, or something like that... (in the comics one of the DE's pretended to be Lorelei to get to Thor, so they may have this shapeshifting ability in the MCU as well, not necessarily one of the main characters).

Up on Asgard...Thor is finally to be made king, another big ceremony is being planned, but not all the realms are happy about this, such as Vanaheim (including any demons and trolls also living on Vanaheim with the Vanir), and they are plotting, possibly with Malekith to stop it. They know ceremony for Thor is being planned and they must act before Thor is crowned or the fear is he'll be too powerful for them to defeat if he's given the Odinforce. The plan is to attack at the same time and cause the Asgardians to spread themselves thin, and make them easier to defeat.

The ceremony for Thor to be made king is about to begin.

Jane and co succeed in opening portal at Greenwich U and what comes out from the other side is not good. (Dark Elves and Malekith)

Elsewhere on Asgard, they are invaded at the same time (Bourne Woods)
Heimdall sees all this and hurries to tell Odin and Thor interrupting the ceremony, giving us a bit of a "not again" moment, which I think would actually be a bit of a funny moment. They needs some humor I think if the rest is going to be so "dark" and I think if it's done with a bit of humor that it wouldn't seem so much like they are doing the exact same thing. It would have a different tone to it. I just think it could be a funny moment and it fits well into my outline. Plus the audience will see the attacks coming so it's a bit different than in Thor 1, they'll be expecting a "not again" humor moment. LOL

Thor insists on going to Midgard to defend them from the Dark Elf attack, Odin isn't happy as it seems he's more concerned with Midgard than Asgard, but sends him anyway, figuring they have enough warriors to fight off the Asgard attack. Odin sends Sif and Warriors 3 and many Einherjar to the place of the invasion/Bourne woods scenes to fight that threat off. Odin stays behind at the palace with Frigga, in case the palace needs defending as so many Einherjar need to go to Bourne woods. It's my feeling that they may think the Vanir are not that much of a threat, and that would go along with the mythos and the game I mentioned that the Asgardians don't think much of the Vanir as warriors at least.

Unbeknownst to anyone, a ship, cloaked even from Odin and Heimdall's gaze appears, with Dark Elves and led by Algrim, and is headed towards the palace.

Thor fights Malekith and the invading Dark Elves on Midgard, and saves Jane and co. Malekith escapes through the portal and Jane closes it behind him with her little doohickey she carries around.

Sif and co fight on their own in Bourne Woods.

The palace is crashed into by the Dark Elf ship, and they attack the palace. Frigga is dealt a fatal blow, possibly item(s) are taken from Odin's vault before the invaders escape. (possibly the Tesseract, or possibly another item that might make Malekith more powerful and change Algrim into Kurse if there is one)

On Earth, Erik, Jane and Thor sort out how to open a portal to get back to Asgard, he brings Jane with him, either for protection (in which case he'd bring EriK and Darcy too) or just to make things up to her.

Thor returns and finds Frigga dead or dying, and Odin heartbroken. Before she dies Frigga makes Odin promise to find a way to help Loki back to the family and to redeem himself as she loves him as much as she does Thor. Any annoyance Jane might have had at him for not coming to see her quickly lets go as she can see he needs to be comforted in the wake of his mother's death. That moves that relationship forward quite a bit rather quickly (not sexually necessarily just emotionally I mean). Thor perhaps feels some blame on himself for this for leaving Asgard, and then realizes his friends need him in Bourne woods and so he goes off, and maybe Jane stays behind with Odin.

Sif and co have more on their hands with their fight then first thought, and Thor arrives to help fight those invaders off. In the notice about those scene from the studio, it says the two kingdoms are battling and the hero comes to save the day, so it could be that Thor does not come with the rest, he could show up later. It would be good to see Sif and the others fighting without Thor too. The cost is great for the Asgardians but they manage to send those invaders packing as well.

This is a bit more fill in the blanks fan fiction here but bear with me. The remaining warriors return to Asgard with Thor, Thor learns from Odin that he believes Loki's past connection to Vanaheim (due to having been trained in sorcery there during more peaceful times) could help them achieve a truce with them, and get reinforcements needed to defeat the Dark Elves. Thor doesn't like this idea but Odin insists that he may be able to help them come to a truce with them (which is also a plan to give Loki a shot at redemption, per Odin's promise to Frigga before she died). Once they come to a truce with the Vanir they can get them to combine forces with the Asgardians to then take down the now greater threat of the Dark Elves (who not only killed Frigga but took something dangerous from Odin's vault that makes them dangerous to all the realms). Thor has to go visit Loki in prison, tells him about Frigga's death and offers to give him a chance at redemption if he helps with this truce with Vanaheim. Loki agrees. If Loki is the one who tells Malekith about Jane and Thor, he might realize at this point that if Thor hadn't been distracted trying to save Jane and Midgard, that Frigga might still be alive, and so that might be part of why he agrees to help. (though he certainly won't tell Thor that at that time at least...)

The defeated Vanir are angry with Malekith and the Dark Elves that they did not kill or keep Thor distracted as they said they would, and they perhaps feel betrayed, and possibly even manipulated by Malekith. So that opens up the possibility to the audience that a truce may be possible against the Dark Elves. And perhaps Odin also suspects that Malekith manipulating them to get the items in the vault was what Malekith has in mind all along and not necessarily that they would defeat the Asgardians with the help of the Vanir. They are pawns for Malekith (and possibly whoever may be backing him, if he's got another big bad like Surtur or Thanos working behind the scenes in the shadows)

that's all I've got for now...

edit: at the moment I'm thinking time-wise that Thor going to see Loki about helping him would take place at about the same time in Thor 1 that Thor finds himself on Midgard hit by Jane's vehicle.
i read it it all, sounds fun :P

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Old 12-30-2012, 06:27 AM   #569
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I think it's cool! I'm going to mull on it a little before composing a more substantive reply, though.
just as a minor tweak, I've decided that Darcy and Erik would likely stay behind to monitor the Greenwich portal if it looks like it might open again. So that would likely mean that Jane goes with Thor because he wants to make it up to her, and he would have figured any major danger on Asgard is over since it's just the Vanir attacking the outskirts. he won't know about the palace attack until he gets there.

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Old 12-30-2012, 06:30 AM   #570
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omg THAT is boiling it down? hahah damn, you may wanna put some ice on your hands :P
Summarizing is not my forte and you really do lose a lot when you summarize, some of what's there are counterpoints to points that I know will be brought up in response to my summary, so post count and typing time saved that way.

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i read it it all, sounds fun :P
Exxxxxcellent.

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Old 12-30-2012, 10:01 AM   #571
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In this post I'll respond to miscellaneous stuff. My comments on the actual summary I'll save for another post.

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If you recall our lengthy discussion about the column, and how it couldn't have been knocked out by the crashed ship, due to the direction the pillar pieces landed. I think we decided that likely Malekith or Thor were thrown through the pillar from the inside of the building, and then they fight just outside of there where Thor is thrown towards the pillar again.
Yes, you are quite right! And I'm the one who made the argument about the pillar--lol. I may have still been intrigued by the idea I sent you in PM, and thus spaceships were still on my mind.

Here is another detail that makes it odd for a spaceship: the piles of rocks that they set up at the University of Greenwich outside the Chapel of St. Peter and St. Paul form a "T" shape. That doesn't conform to what you'd expect for a ship. It doesn't exactly conform to what you might expect for a portal, either, but I guess it's closer.

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It might also mean that the ship that menaces and then crashes into the Asgardian palace is not necessarily the Dark Elves ship. Could easily be more than one realm has a problem with Asgard, in fact clearly more than one does considering the Bourne Woods battle.
True!

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I think it could very well be that the upheaval is the result of the portal or doorway opening to the Elf world and then they come out of that chasm that goes right down the PM line.
I'm going to pick a nit here. Strictly speaking, the site of that battle is actually not on the Prime Meridian line, and the likely track of the would-be portal is not aligned with the Prime Meridian. It's close, though--about 1000 ft/300m off. Probably that courtyard suited the dramatic needs of the film better.


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That's my theory at the moment anyway... And in that case, they could come back through the portal more than once, certainly especially if they gain the technology, and/or a person who has knowledge of the technology to make it open again.
Of course, it coudl be that the Elves are the ones who opened the portal


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tldr lol, so if you could paraphase this, that'd be cool lol
Dude, extended plot summaries are the raison d'etre for this thread!!

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Old 12-30-2012, 10:11 AM   #572
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In this post I'll respond to miscellaneous stuff. My comments on the actual summary I'll save for another post.



Yes, you are quite right! And I'm the one who made the argument about the pillar--lol. I may have still been intrigued by the idea I sent you in PM, and thus spaceships were still on my mind.

Here is another detail that makes it odd for a spaceship: the piles of rocks that they set up at the University of Greenwich outside the Chapel of St. Peter and St. Paul form a "T" shape. That doesn't conform to what you'd expect for a ship. It doesn't exactly conform to what you might expect for a portal, either, but I guess it's closer.



True!



I'm going to pick a nit here. Strictly speaking, the site of that battle is actually not on the Prime Meridian line, and the likely track of the would-be portal is not aligned with the Prime Meridian. It's close, though--about 1000 ft/300m off. Probably that courtyard suited the dramatic needs of the film better.




Of course, it coudl be that the Elves are the ones who opened the portal




Dude, extended plot summaries are the raison d'etre for this thread!!
yes, but some of us may simply not have the 5 minutes or so to read ONE post, as I didn't at the time

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Old 12-30-2012, 11:24 AM   #573
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I've read the summary again, and I think it hangs together fairly well. It puts together several elements that we've seen or heard about--U. Greenwich, Bourne Woods--in a way that makes sense. It's smart to have some artifacts taken during the raid. We need some McGuffins in circulation, plus it provides motivation for a Vanir-Asgardian truce you mention.

It's possible that the Vanir give the Dark Elves (or let them borrow) portal technology as part of their alliance. But your structure hangs together fairly well, so I'll run with it here.

Really, most of what I have are quibbles. I bring them up to close up gaps and strengthen the overall outline. I don't mean to bring you down!

The animated series Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes does something with portals. In that continuity, each of the Nine Realms is in a separate dimension. They talk about zones on Earth where the dimensional planes overlap, giving rise to weak spots where a portal could be constructed. They could use the same idea here, and have the area around the University of Greenwich have an overlap to Svartalfheim. This would obviate the technical challenge I had identified earlier (in the Jane Foster thread) of targeting accuracy. And Erik already knows how to address the power problem. It would seem odd that Jane & Co. would be targeting that area around U. Greenwich, unless there is, as you suggest, some external influence nudging them in that direction.

A gap: how would going to Midgard help the Dark Elves invade Asgard? Perhaps they would proceed to the area where the Midgardian plane overlaps with the Asgardian one (which you would think would be in Scandanavia somewhere, except they haven't done any filming there)

To continue to poke at this gap, the summary has a Dark Elf ship over Asgard City. How does it get there? The Vanir help them, perhaps? You mention that it is cloaked from Odin's and Heimdall's gazes. But I think it makes as much sense to have it arrive suddenly through a portal and start attacking. So they detect it straight away, but that doesn't give them any warning to speak of.

Quote:
Malekith escapes through the portal and Jane closes it behind him with her little doohickey she carries around.
My quibble about this is that it takes Jane an awfully long time to close the portal. You'd think she'd shut it down right away. But we see from the U. Greenwich photos that she and Erik climb on the piles of dirt and check it out (and run away sometimes) for a while.

Regarding the coronation, having it interrupted doesn't work for me as a moment of comedy. (I'm sorry ). I think there will be moments of levity, but they will be smaller in scale.

Quote:
On Earth, Erik, Jane and Thor sort out how to open a portal to get back to Asgard
Them and us both!

You thought only Jane would go to Asgard. On the one hand, I can see how that makes sense. What would the others do as the plot goes forward? On the other hand, Darcy's function in the narrative is to help the general audience relate to the weird magic-y stuff that is happening in the story. Most of that will be outside of Midgard. So you'd think Darcy would go too. But we haven't heard much about what she would do when up there. She's a political science major. Could her knowledge there be put to use for any of the political maneuvering going on?

I think Erik would stay behind. While everyone is wondering what's up with Jane, they might also be wondering what the deal is with Erik--he seems .. . different since the events of The Avengers. So it's probably better if he stays on Midgard, away from (most of?) the magical artifacts.

Quote:
Thor perhaps feels some blame on himself for this for leaving Asgard
I think Jane would note that he tends to be hard on himself, to take on the weight of all the Nine Realms on his shoulders, and there's only so much that he can do. He made the best decision he could with the information he had at the time.

I think (per your advice) Jane would feel very conflicted about what has transpired, too. All she was trying to do was advance knowledge, which will help Earth, which has to be a good thing, and yes, (per the alternate ending of Thor1), help Thor find a way back. And then all of this happened, which she would never have wanted. If she were to listen to herself, she made the best decision she could at the time with the information she had. But could she have obtained more information? Could events have unfolded differently? Why did the portal connect to Svartalfheim and not Asgard?

Elements not yet incorporated:
Tyr
Jane in Asgardian clothes
Iceland
Stonehenge (maybe Midgard overlaps with Alfheim here, or Asgard, and that's how they get there after the initial battle)
Kurse
Shots over the Thames, around St. Paul's Cathedral, etc.
Alice Krige's character

Nice job, Elizah!

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Old 12-30-2012, 02:40 PM   #574
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Has it already been suggested that the scene in The Avengers with the other & Thanos, the destroyed planet in the background is Jotunheim?

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Old 12-30-2012, 02:46 PM   #575
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Has it already been suggested that the scene in The Avengers with the other & Thanos, the destroyed planet in the background is Jotunheim?
Not to my knowledge. That's interesting. I'll have to go back and look at The Avengers again.

Of course, there could be more than one destroyed planet in the universe. . . .

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