Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

He could've been just using an example from the comics, but I *hope* Joss slipped up a bit here by saying "Giant-Man" instead of "Ant-Man." I hope to hell Pym shows up in the Avengers as Giant-Man and Lang is Ant-Man....I really, really would rather that Hank be giant-sized in the MCU. He has historically been giant-sized for far, far, far longer than ant-sized.

Also in that article, Joss posed a teaser about somebody who was *supposed* to be a villain for the team "to whale on" in addition to Loki, and he refuses to name names because Marvel indicates that they may use him later. Obviously not talking about Thanos --- there'd be no need for secrecy about that, since the cosmic cat is already out of the bag --- so feel free to speculate away.

My first thought was that the second villain might have been Red Skull. His ascension in CA:TFA to Odin-knows-where in the Nine Realms very well could have been a plot point conveniently placed by Whedon when he tweaked the script. Skull's connection to the Cube and to Earth would have been a very believable reason why Loki's attention would be on Earth in the first place. Plus, it would have opened things up nicely for Schmidt to return for CA:TWS (which could still happen).

But Whedon comments further in that interview that he scrapped the second villain because Marvel "didn't want to add mythology," which makes me think maybe it wasn't the Red Skull after all.

[TheAQU4M4N]

for some reason im thinking since they may want to introduce ant man in the next one, they may switch out the Hulk seeing as he is the more expensive one to produce on film. I also agree with the reemerging popularity of Hulk i don't see it happening at all.

[OB12]

Also in that article, Joss posed a teaser about somebody who was *supposed* to be a villain for the team "to whale on" in addition to Loki, and he refuses to name names because Marvel indicates that they may use him later. Obviously not talking about Thanos --- there'd be no need for secrecy about that, since the cosmic cat is already out of the bag --- so feel free to speculate away.

I'm wondering he might be referring to Abomination. He would've provided that extra challenge for the team and is also someone I think they may try to use later as a member of the MoE.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by spideymouse

My first thought was that the second villain might have been Red Skull. His ascension in CA:TFA to Odin-knows-where in the Nine Realms very well could have been a plot point conveniently placed by Whedon when he tweaked the script. Skull's connection to the Cube and to Earth would have been a very believable reason why Loki's attention would be on Earth in the first place. Plus, it would have opened things up nicely for Schmidt to return for CA:TWS (which could still happen).

But Whedon comments further in that interview that he scrapped the second villain because Marvel "didn't want to add mythology," which makes me think maybe it wasn't the Red Skull after all.

Good guess. I've always suspected Red Skull was actually transported to the same section of the galaxy as Thanos at the end of CATFA, and that Skully would be granted superpowers by Thanos and team up with him at some point.

Originally Posted by OB12

I'm wondering he might be referring to Abomination. He would've provided that extra challenge for the team and is also someone I think they may try to use later as a member of the MoE.

Abomination is a good guess, too....I'm not sure, but I vaguely remember early rumors (untrue, of course) that William Hurt would be in Avengers, so it's not beyond the realm of the pale that they planned on bringing Tim Roth back, too. But I wonder if there would be any need for Joss to be secretive about that? It's not like Abomination was a "secret character."

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Good guess. I've always suspected Red Skull was actually transported to the same section of the galaxy as Thanos at the end of CATFA, and that Skully would be granted superpowers by Thanos and team up with him at some point.

Thanks. A lot of people have suspected that. Some wishful thinkers even claimed they saw him hanging out with Thanos in The Avengers when they first watched the movie in theaters (which upon later viewings it was confirmed he wasn't). In any case, I'm certainly glad that they have learned not to kill major villains off anymore in the MCU. I hope it stays that way with Mandarin, though I could see Malekith dying.

As for anyone else who Joss could have been thinking about as a second villain, what about Absorbing Man? After all, Loki created him in the first place, he would have added some extra punch to the battle scenes, and the character could have used some redemption after the Nick Nolte fiasco in Ang Lee's Hulk. He's also a villain that could really spice up the MCU rogues gallery (for either Hulk or an Earthbound Thor) in the future.

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by OB12

I'm wondering he might be referring to Abomination. He would've provided that extra challenge for the team and is also someone I think they may try to use later as a member of the MoE.

What I'd love is if old villains return under the command of a new bad guy. Then they wouldn't be a brand new set of villains.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

What I'd love is old villains return under the command of a new bad guy. Then they wouldn't be a brand new set of villains.

I'd love to see that too, especially in the context of a potential MoE story. It's a big reason why many think WB should have waited to do the Justice League movie after introducing the rest of the team separately--there could be a real difference between having the audience be familiar with big screen versions of WW and Flash versus having them introduced them as new characters in the JL movie itself.

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by spideymouse

I'd love to see that too, especially in the context of a potential MoE story.

Just conclude Thanos' story in Avengers 2 and have the Masters of Evil be a different story in Avengers 3.

[Hawkingbird]

I agree with Venom. It would be silly to have a Galactic Villain with MOE. They certainly deserve their own film though.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

Just conclude Thanos' story in Avengers 2 and have the Masters of Evil be a different story in Avengers 3.

If you read the conversation, I wasn't specifically talking about Avengers 2--just responding to the idea of bringing in already-introduced villains for a future MoE storyline.

[SpiceyOnion]

I would love to see Spider-man in the Avengers 2.

He would bring an interesting dynamic as the young, rookie highschooler, in contrast with current characters that are all older and more experienced.

Also, having Spider-man in The Avengers would be a box office gold mine.

Too bad Sony still hold the rights...

I wouldn't miss Black Widow or Hawkeye either.

[TheWatcher]

+Hank, Janet, and Carol.


I wanna see Spider-Man in the third movie.

[I'm Venom]

It would be beneficial for both studios to include Spider-Man in the continuity, even if it was for a side role. Oscorp tower was going to be in The Avengers until the last minute. That's a right of Sony's film, so they played ball on some level. By putting that tower in, they were accepting that Spider-Man existed within the continuity.

A cameo isn't beyond the question. Clearly in this case.

[Lorus]

It seems to me that Marvel Studios have very little to gain from making a deal with Sony to include Spider-Man in an Avengers film. The audience that would see anything with Spider-Man but won't see an Avengers film is almost certainly far too small to be financially significant, especially given the obvious mass appeal of the Avengers as they are, therefore, all Marvel Studios are doing is forking large amounts of Avengers money to Sony while taking less for themselves. All that for the benefit of using a character that hasn't contributed to building the MCU and hasn't been guided by Whedon's creative vision as the MCU will have by Avengers 2.

So, Sony benefit by getting lots of money for putting in no work and Marvel Studios benefit by getting less money and undermining the entirety of the shared universe they built. Yay?

[SpiceyOnion]

People said the same thing about The Avengers. They thought that the fan bases of Hulk, Thor, Captain America, and Iron Man were all too similar and it wouldn't benefit the box office intake by having them all in the same movie. Boy were they wrong. The Avengers ended up being the 3rd highest grossing movie, making way more money then any of the individual movies leading up to it. And it made that amount with much lesser known characters than Spider-man.

Spider-man is nearly the most famous superhero, next to Batman and perhaps Superman. If Spider-man was in an Avengers movie, the hype would be insane.

But obviously the circumstances are not ideal for this because TASM was a mediocre film, and Sony owns the rights to Spider-man currently. But I'm sure Joss could write Parker into the script and include him into the universe successfully, if given the chance.

[kaijunexus]

The only way we get Spider-Man (or X-Men, FF, etc.) in the MCU is if Sony (or Fox for X-Men/FF) realizes that piggy-backing on the success of the MCU only works if your character is introduced into the MCU because people get excited at the possibilities of these characters co-existing on-screen at the same time.

Fox has realized this and that's why they're trying to build their own cinematic universe with X-Men and FF (which will fail miserably because those two franchises don't mix all that well by themselves, and because...well, you know...Fox).

I would imagine that Fox and/or Sony will eventually be willing to make a similar deal that Paramount made with Disney, which is..."Let us distribute the films for our licensed characters and you can produce the movies as you see fit". In this case, the characters are for all intents and purposes back at Marvel, which Fox and Sony still get to rake in plenty of cash from distribution.

[I'm Venom]

I don't even need Spider-Man to be part of the Avengers, I just wish that he was part of the universe.

[Joeyjojo72]

Im down with that.

[Spider-Vader]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

I don't even need Spider-Man to be part of the Avengers, I just wish that he was part of the universe.

There's no way that'll happen. If he's apart of the universe, then Marvel will want him on the team. They've been trying to make the Avengers an "all-star" team in the past decade, hence Spidey & Wolverine joining the team. It's irked alot of fans, but I'm fine with it.

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by Spider-Vader

There's no way that'll happen. If he's apart of the universe, then Marvel will want him on the team. They've been trying to make the Avengers an "all-star" team in the past decade, hence Spidey & Wolverine joining the team. It's irked alot of fans, but I'm fine with it.

That's the only context in which I've found him interesting in the past decade.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by SpiceyOnion

People said the same thing about The Avengers. They thought that the fan bases of Hulk, Thor, Captain America, and Iron Man were all too similar and it wouldn't benefit the box office intake by having them all in the same movie. Boy were they wrong. The Avengers ended up being the 3rd highest grossing movie, making way more money then any of the individual movies leading up to it. And it made that amount with much lesser known characters than Spider-man.

Spider-man is nearly the most famous superhero, next to Batman and perhaps Superman. If Spider-man was in an Avengers movie, the hype would be insane.

But obviously the circumstances are not ideal for this because TASM was a mediocre film, and Sony owns the rights to Spider-man currently. But I'm sure Joss could write Parker into the script and include him into the universe successfully, if given the chance.

He needs an introduction. But hell no. if spiderman is in it, it will become spidy and friends. This isn't what the avengers are about. There are other more important characters to introduce, like you know, actual classic avengers

[Bat Andy]

In the Cap/Falcon comics of the '70's Falcon got his wings upgraded in Wakanda by T'challa. This offers a potential to introduce the BP in the third round of movies possibly the third Cap film.

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

He needs an introduction. But hell no. if spiderman is in it, it will become spidy and friends. This isn't what the avengers are about. There are other more important characters to introduce, like you know, actual classic avengers

A joint production with Avengers and Spidey isn't outside the realm of possibility.

[Hawkingbird]

I'm fed up of this conversation. It's not going to happen

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

I'm fed up of this conversation. It's not going to happen

The problem with this discussion is that while those of us who have been around a while know that legal issues prevent Spider-Man, Wolverine, et al from appearing in Marvel films, others are ignorant of those facts. They are going to keep arguing over and over that it makes sense for the studios to make a deal even though most of us know that is next to impossible.


We should just ignore it and talk about the dozens of Avengers characters who can appear in the sequels. I'm all for GiAnt Man, The Wasp, The Scarlet Witch, The Vision (not Coulson, though), The Falcon, etc., all of whom Marvel owns and can add to the team.