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Old 10-29-2012, 01:59 PM   #601
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Wall Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Brian Braddock View Post
I grew up with the classic Cap tale 'How to Tame a Tumbler' [in which Cap's arguably at his most acrobatic] but even I know that acrobatic flips alone do not a Captain America make.



I agree, and since I'm on my sixth cup of coffee upon reading the issue you recommended I'm worried about getting behind the wheel of a car to go to work . But yes Cap isn't defined by his acrobatic skill, but his leadership and never-ending confidence in himself and others, these factors were so underused in the Avengers that (to quote another poster on here) the film should have been named Ironman and his 8itches. I hope the next film shows off more Cap, as I was let down seeing Black Widow do the stunts Cap was noted for. I mean how dare they treat the Captain like this in this film!? All he was a freakin side character who helped Tony start the fan blades of the Shield Helicarrier! I'm seriously getting mad now thinking about all the adventures I read about Cap and yet Tony the billionaire drunkard with a good heart upstages him. I hope the next film pits Cap against a big ass Sleeper and we see a good 15 minutes of classic Captain America asswhoopin.


Well when I first saw this film at least I wasn't the only one shouting "DO A FLIP!!!"


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Old 11-03-2012, 06:51 PM   #602
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

Really good interview with Chris, seems very comfortable, (warning some language!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bVpV...feature=relmfu

In the first one he mentions wanting to cameo in Thor 2 but it sounds like it wasn't definite at that time (note he does say that the cameos DO count as a film, for those who have signed for a certain number of films). In the second part (linked on that page) he talks a bit about getting ready for Cap 2.

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Old 11-05-2012, 05:03 PM   #603
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

This is a short video/interview about Chris Evans from a couple months ago. The part that stood out for me the most: before wanting to do acting, Chris was very into art, and used to sketch and paint, thinking that he'd go down the art school path. I wonder what famous character he plays is an artist, too?
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:25 PM   #604
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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This is a short video/interview about Chris Evans from a couple months ago. The part that stood out for me the most: before wanting to do acting, Chris was very into art, and used to sketch and paint, thinking that he'd go down the art school path. I wonder what famous character he plays is an artist, too?
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That is a very good interview. Thanks for sharing it. I wonder if the sketches Steve Rogers did in CA:TFA and The Avengers were actually Chris's own artwork.

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Old 11-07-2012, 10:06 PM   #605
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

So folks, after seeing all that Steve Rogers can do within the last two films that he's been in, who would you guys say could win in a fight between Steve Rogers and Blonksy (Pre Abomination Phase but post 1st Serum Injection/Culver Campus Stage)?

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Old 11-07-2012, 11:23 PM   #606
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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So folks, after seeing all that Steve Rogers can do within the last two films that he's been in, who would you guys say could win in a fight between Steve Rogers and Blonksy (Pre Abomination Phase but post 1st Serum Injection/Culver Campus Stage)?

Rogers would have won, easily. Blonsky appeared faster at points, though when Steve was chasing the HYDRA assassin through Brooklyn he clocked 60 mph easily. Also, the shots of Blonsky running from Hulk showed him against static objects, which made him appear to be moving very fast.


In terms of physical strength, however, Captain America is obviously superior to Blonsky. He was literally putting his fist through the aliens' faces, cutting off limbs with single blows, breaking necks, etc. Cap also withstood Thor hitting him full force with Mjolnir. Even though the shield dispersed a lot of the energy, Cap was still holding and bracing it. I think that blow would have planted Blonsky in the turf. So the edge goes to Captain America all the way, in my opinion.

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Old 12-30-2012, 03:42 PM   #607
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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I just realized that Captain America is really the only character in the film that had scenes showing him being formally introduced to every member on the team. Everyone else either already knew each other or met up with each other for the first time at the big battle. However, in Steve's case, we saw him being introduced to or meeting each member before the big battle:

1. He met Natasha after coming out of the Quinjet
2. He was introduced to Banner on the Hellcarrier
3. He met Stark in Germany
4. Met Thor on board the Quinjet
5. Met Hawkeye inside the Hellcarrier

By all accounts, he's already known for having the most screen time in the film; if his "man out of time" sequence had been kept in, it would have made it more evident.
He might meet everyone, but he doesn't have any meaningful dynamic with anyone aside from Tony.

So Hawkeye and Black Widow have their friendship, Black Widow and Banner have their own thing, Banner becomes friends with Tony.

Basically the only meaningful interaction Steve has with any character is with the one who belittles him. And such interaction is skewed in Tony's favor.

Also, it matters more what that characters do than how much screentime they have doing it.

Steve might have the most screentime (a measly 30 seconds more than Tony) but he's rarely doing anything impressive.

Captain America goes up against Loki, makes a moral stand, but can't back it up. Black Widow goes up against Loki, she outsmarts him and walks away with valuable information.

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Old 12-30-2012, 05:17 PM   #608
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

So Steve doesn't have meaningful interaction with Fury in the gym, Banner when they meet, Widow/Hawkeye at the beginning of the battle, Coulson on the quinjet, and Thor during the latter part of the battle?

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Old 12-30-2012, 10:25 PM   #609
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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So Steve doesn't have meaningful interaction with Fury in the gym, Banner when they meet, Widow/Hawkeye at the beginning of the battle, Coulson on the quinjet, and Thor during the latter part of the battle?
They're interactions, sure, but not really meaningful in an inter-personal connection sense.

Because if them interacting is all that matters, then Iron Man interacted with Hawkeye when he gave him a ride, and when Hawkeye gave him directions.

But I'm talking about connections like the type Bruce has with Tony, that inspires him to join the team for the big battle. Bruce may have briefly chatted with Steve, but it has no payoff.


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Old 01-02-2013, 09:23 AM   #610
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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They're interactions, sure, but not really meaningful in an inter-personal connection sense.

Because if them interacting is all that matters, then Iron Man interacted with Hawkeye when he gave him a ride, and when Hawkeye gave him directions.

But I'm talking about connections like the type Bruce has with Tony, that inspires him to join the team for the big battle. Bruce may have briefly chatted with Steve, but it has no payoff.
I respectfully disagree. After Coulson dies the exchange between Cap and Tony has a lot of weight to me. Tony is right that they are not soldiers but he also realizes from what Cap says that they have to find it within themselves to work together, get beyond self doubt and animosity, and find a way to prevail. Also when Banner arrives at the final battle he knows that Cap will direct the team in the right to protect New York. Cap may have not had any real drown out interactions with any one member of the team but them taking orders from him when it counts goes a long way and speaks to Cap's strength of character IMO.

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Old 01-03-2013, 08:37 PM   #611
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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Which Captain America movie costume do you guys and girls like better, Captain America: TFA or Avengers?
TFA by far it looks good with and without the mask/helmet, it looks good still, in motion and from all angles it is by far my favorite captain america look/uniform/costume of any and all media

I'm not a fan of the suit from Avengers, its entirely tolerable without the mask/helmet but it looks entirely out of place with everyone else when the helmet a complete eyesore imo. It is on by far the worst looking super hero costume in a marvel movie within the last 15 years

I wished they would have used something like the TFA prototype, the one they showed off in promo art before settling on the final version used in the tfa movie. if they went with that look they would of had something equally badass but more modern looking

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Old 01-24-2013, 05:31 AM   #612
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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I respectfully disagree. After Coulson dies the exchange between Cap and Tony has a lot of weight to me. Tony is right that they are not soldiers but he also realizes from what Cap says that they have to find it within themselves to work together, get beyond self doubt and animosity, and find a way to prevail. Also when Banner arrives at the final battle he knows that Cap will direct the team in the right to protect New York. Cap may have not had any real drown out interactions with any one member of the team but them taking orders from him when it counts goes a long way and speaks to Cap's strength of character IMO.
I did say that Steve had meaningful interactions with Tony, he just didn't with anyone else.

The reason the others follow him is because he's Captain America, rather than stuff he did it in the span of this movie.

I think it says more about the Avengers that they follow him than it says about Steve.

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Old 01-24-2013, 06:55 AM   #613
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I did say that Steve had meaningful interactions with Tony, he just didn't with anyone else.

The reason the others follow him is because he's Captain America, rather than stuff he did it in the span of this movie.

I think it says more about the Avengers that they follow him than it says about Steve.
to me it says a lot about Steve since his morals is the basis for his actions as Captain America. We see that very apparent long before Steve becomes Cap.

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Old 01-24-2013, 02:55 PM   #614
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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I respectfully disagree. After Coulson dies the exchange between Cap and Tony has a lot of weight to me. Tony is right that they are not soldiers but he also realizes from what Cap says that they have to find it within themselves to work together, get beyond self doubt and animosity, and find a way to prevail. Also when Banner arrives at the final battle he knows that Cap will direct the team in the right to protect New York. Cap may have not had any real drown out interactions with any one member of the team but them taking orders from him when it counts goes a long way and speaks to Cap's strength of character IMO.
Tony and Cap obviously had enough weight to their relationship to breed a hoard of Stony shippers

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Old 01-25-2013, 05:18 AM   #615
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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to me it says a lot about Steve since his morals is the basis for his actions as Captain America. We see that very apparent long before Steve becomes Cap.
That's kind of my point.

In CA:TFA, we see the things that make Steve Captain America.

In The Avengers, we don't really. Or the thing he does are matched by others, who bring stuff to the table that Steve doesn't.

So the impression that I got is that Natasha, Clint, et all, follow Steve not because of events that happened in another movie. Which is pretty lazy, if you ask me.

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Old 01-25-2013, 06:56 AM   #616
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That's kind of my point.

In CA:TFA, we see the things that make Steve Captain America.

In The Avengers, we don't really. Or the thing he does are matched by others, who bring stuff to the table that Steve doesn't.

So the impression that I got is that Natasha, Clint, et all, follow Steve not because of events that happened in another movie. Which is pretty lazy, if you ask me.
I dont see that as being lazy personally. Also just because he has a reputation does not always mean that the person now will live up to it. When the other see and meet Cap I feel that they do see the real person and they realize that he is someone that they can follow.

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Old 01-25-2013, 09:37 AM   #617
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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I dont see that as being lazy personally. Also just because he has a reputation does not always mean that the person now will live up to it. When the other see and meet Cap I feel that they do see the real person and they realize that he is someone that they can follow.
It's lazy on Whedon's part.

He could show us Cap doing things that prove why he THE person who should be in charge, BEFORE the team accept him as a leader.

But he leaves it to viewers to assume that people who meet Steve can simply see it.

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Old 01-25-2013, 10:17 AM   #618
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It's lazy on Whedon's part.

He could show us Cap doing things that prove why he THE person who should be in charge, BEFORE the team accept him as a leader.

But he leaves it to viewers to assume that people who meet Steve can simply see it.
to me that plays to Cap's strength of character that comes though just by itself. You may not like that but I dont have a problem with that. In the comics Cap can have that affect on people that know nothing about hi, before they meet him. One thing that was not shown outside of Iron Man was Cap willing to put himself in harms way with no reservation when he was working with Tony during the Hellicarrier attack. Not to mention taking on Loki by himself.

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Old 01-25-2013, 10:52 AM   #619
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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to me that plays to Cap's strength of character that comes though just by itself. You may not like that but I dont have a problem with that. In the comics Cap can have that affect on people that know nothing about hi, before they meet him. One thing that was not shown outside of Iron Man was Cap willing to put himself in harms way with no reservation when he was working with Tony during the Hellicarrier attack. Not to mention taking on Loki by himself.
Eh, the first time Natasha meets Steve, she is very clearly not impressed.

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Old 01-25-2013, 11:04 AM   #620
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

I'd like to see Cap in Avengers 2 get more of a chance to push his powers and abilities to ultimate level. In Avengers: EMH series, Cap's a force to be reckoned with both in strength and nobility.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:35 AM   #621
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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Eh, the first time Natasha meets Steve, she is very clearly not impressed.
What makes you think that?

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Old 01-25-2013, 12:08 PM   #622
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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What makes you think that?
...Watching the scene?

Coulson introduces him to Natasha, and her response is a very clipped 'Hi' before turning her attention back to Coulson.

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Old 01-25-2013, 12:49 PM   #623
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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It's lazy on Whedon's part.

He could show us Cap doing things that prove why he THE person who should be in charge, BEFORE the team accept him as a leader.

But he leaves it to viewers to assume that people who meet Steve can simply see it.
Jumping in on this, I have to disagree with you here. I know everyone says Banner/Hulk stole the show, but I thought Cap was the best by far. I thought Whedon wrote him pitch perfect. My reasoning:

1) In his very first scene of the movie, Fury comes to get him, says someone stole the cube, and what does he say when Fury asks him about it? You should have left it in the ocean. That right there sets up Cap, his viewpoint and how the viewer should be contrasting him with the other characters in the movie. Cap believes they should have just left the cube alone. This comes into play later in the movie.


2) My FAVORITE exchange in the entire movie, when Cap first meets Banner:

Cap: Word is you can find the cube.
Banner: Is that the only word on me?
Cap: Only word I care about.

Again, allowing the viewer to contrast Cap's personality with other characters in the movie. Cap doesn't care that Banner has this issue. It does not define who Banner is. Loki, on the other hand, is constantly making jabs at how he is a beast. Makes play he's still a man. It is also a not-so-subtle parallel to an AIDS victim, which is awesome. Again, this is done to show Cap's personality, let Banner see what type of person Cap is, and allow the viewer to compare him with others in the movie, specifically Loki.


3) Stark comes in because he wants the cube. He and Thor are used to doing whatever they want, they have never really had to answer to anyone, so they start fighting because they each want to do their own thing. Who is the one with the level head? Cap. Cap comes and tells them to knock it off, even lectures Thor saying stop messing around. He even blocks Mjolnir, which is surprising to Thor. Maybe Thor should take a step back and listen to this guy.


4) When they get back on the ship, Cap is the only one who is still trying to figure out why Loki let himself be captured. Banner says don't worry about Loki. Stark is trying to turn Banner into the Hulk. But Cap is the one who says I want to know why Loki let us take him. Cap is the one who says knock it off to Stark, and then he hones in on Loki's plan. I think Loki's trying to wind us up. Another example there to show Cap's personality, in this case, contrast it with Tony, who wants the cube for himself, and Banner, who says not to worry about Loki.


4) After everything happens on the helicarrier, after Coulson dies and Loki escapes, Tony realizes he fell for Loki's trap, as Cap put it, trying to wind them all up. He also realizes that Cap was right the whole time, which significantly changes how Tony views Cap. When they first meet, Tony isn't impressed by him, going so far as to insult him, saying everything special about him came out of a bottle. Well, no it didn't. Tony fell for Loki's trap, Cap didn't. Cap was on him from the get go. This is apparent in the next scene when Tony confronts Loki:

...a supersoldier, living legend who kind of lives up to the legend...

This is the big change in Tony's character. Half way through the movie, Tony was insulting him, saying they should have left him frozen. Now though he has seen what makes Cap special. Cap has proved to Tony why people revere him so much.


In addition, Whedon makes a note to put Cap's courage on display several times, from the him being the first one to take on Loki, alone, to when he was risking his life by jumping across gaps all over the helicarriers engine to fix it. In the final battle, when he is running through fire and explosions to go save a bunch of people. Finally the part where he actually gives orders to the NYPD, which is a nod to the confusion/miscommunication which took place among first-responders on 9/11 (AWESOME).

And then at the very end of the movie, when the council asks Fury where the cube is: ...it's where it belongs, out of our reach. So Cap was right the whole time. The cube should have been left in the ocean; if it had, all of this would be avoided.

Cap was easily my favorite character in the Avengers, Whedon went to great lengths to display his character, in particular that the insult Tony uses, how everything special came out of a bottle, is wrong. His courage, his wisdom, and his moral compass did not come out of the bottle, and those are his true superpowers. All of this exemplifies that while he is not he most powerful or the smartest, he is the wisest, which is why he leads the Avengers.

So calling it lazy on Whedon's part is dead wrong. If you think it was lazy it was because this stuff was going over your head. There is no way I could have pulled all of that from the movie with Whedon writing him in a lazy fashion.

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Old 01-25-2013, 01:08 PM   #624
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Jumping in on this, I have to disagree with you here. I know everyone says Banner/Hulk stole the show, but I thought Cap was the best by far. I thought Whedon wrote him pitch perfect. My reasoning:

1) In his very first scene of the movie, Fury comes to get him, says someone stole the cube, and what does he say when Fury asks him about it? You should have left it in the ocean. That right there sets up Cap, his viewpoint and how the viewer should be contrasting him with the other characters in the movie. Cap believes they should have just left the cube alone. This comes into play later in the movie.


2) My FAVORITE exchange in the entire movie, when Cap first meets Banner:

Cap: Word is you can find the cube.
Banner: Is that the only word on me?
Cap: Only word I care about.

Again, allowing the viewer to contrast Cap's personality with other characters in the movie. Cap doesn't care that Banner has this issue. It does not define who Banner is. Loki, on the other hand, is constantly making jabs at how he is a beast. Makes play he's still a man. It is also a not-so-subtle parallel to an AIDS victim, which is awesome. Again, this is done to show Cap's personality, let Banner see what type of person Cap is, and allow the viewer to compare him with others in the movie, specifically Loki.


3) Stark comes in because he wants the cube. He and Thor are used to doing whatever they want, they have never really had to answer to anyone, so they start fighting because they each want to do their own thing. Who is the one with the level head? Cap. Cap comes and tells them to knock it off, even lectures Thor saying stop messing around. He even blocks Mjolnir, which is surprising to Thor. Maybe Thor should take a step back and listen to this guy.


4) When they get back on the ship, Cap is the only one who is still trying to figure out why Loki let himself be captured. Banner says don't worry about Loki. Stark is trying to turn Banner into the Hulk. But Cap is the one who says I want to know why Loki let us take him. Cap is the one who says knock it off to Stark, and then he hones in on Loki's plan. I think Loki's trying to wind us up. Another example there to show Cap's personality, in this case, contrast it with Tony, who wants the cube for himself, and Banner, who says not to worry about Loki.


4) After everything happens on the helicarrier, after Coulson dies and Loki escapes, Tony realizes he fell for Loki's trap, as Cap put it, trying to wind them all up. He also realizes that Cap was right the whole time, which significantly changes how Tony views Cap. When they first meet, Tony isn't impressed by him, going so far as to insult him, saying everything special about him came out of a bottle. Well, no it didn't. Tony fell for Loki's trap, Cap didn't. Cap was on him from the get go. This is apparent in the next scene when Tony confronts Loki:

...a supersoldier, living legend who kind of lives up to the legend...

This is the big change in Tony's character. Half way through the movie, Tony was insulting him, saying they should have left him frozen. Now though he has seen what makes Cap special. Cap has proved to Tony why people revere him so much.


In addition, Whedon makes a note to put Cap's courage on display several times, from the him being the first one to take on Loki, alone, to when he was risking his life by jumping across gaps all over the helicarriers engine to fix it. In the final battle, when he is running through fire and explosions to go save a bunch of people. Finally the part where he actually gives orders to the NYPD, which is a nod to the confusion/miscommunication which took place among first-responders on 9/11 (AWESOME).

And then at the very end of the movie, when the council asks Fury where the cube is: ...it's where it belongs, out of our reach. So Cap was right the whole time. The cube should have been left in the ocean; if it had, all of this would be avoided.

Cap was easily my favorite character in the Avengers, Whedon went to great lengths to display his character, in particular that the insult Tony uses, how everything special came out of a bottle, is wrong. His courage, his wisdom, and his moral compass did not come out of the bottle, and those are his true superpowers. All of this exemplifies that while he is not he most powerful or the smartest, he is the wisest, which is why he leads the Avengers.

So calling it lazy on Whedon's part is dead wrong. If you think it was lazy it was because this stuff was going over your head. There is no way I could have pulled all of that from the movie with Whedon writing him in a lazy fashion.
Justsomeguy I cannot thank you enough. You hit the nail on the head so right its not even funny.

Maybe Natasha did not seem to be impressed at first as maybe she is still trying to read Cap and see if he is truly the man that so many say he is from the past.

Because of his wisdom and strength of character other Avengers, monarchs like Black Panther, Thor, and Namor will listen and listen well with what he has to say at any given time.

Also the part about Banner- can you please explain the AIDS victim parallel? I think I know what you are expressing just need a little clarification.

Another important point is during the end battle when it is time for Cap to lead its Tony who says "Cap call it". When Cap gives the orders everyone listens and follows. Plus I love is when Cap is the one who says "Hulk...Smash!" and the Hulk smiles(that was awesome because it came out of nowhere plus the Hulk took the order).

As you pointed out before what is far more indestructible about Cap far beyond his shield is his morals and strength of character. Captain America epitomizes a never say die attitude and he shined so brightly in this film. Hope to hear more about The Winter soldier soon. Has filming started yet?

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Old 01-25-2013, 02:13 PM   #625
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

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Jumping in on this, I have to disagree with you here. I know everyone says Banner/Hulk stole the show, but I thought Cap was the best by far. I thought Whedon wrote him pitch perfect. My reasoning:
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2) My FAVORITE exchange in the entire movie, when Cap first meets Banner:

Cap: Word is you can find the cube.
Banner: Is that the only word on me?
Cap: Only word I care about.

Again, allowing the viewer to contrast Cap's personality with other characters in the movie. Cap doesn't care that Banner has this issue. It does not define who Banner is. Loki, on the other hand, is constantly making jabs at how he is a beast. Makes play he's still a man. It is also a not-so-subtle parallel to an AIDS victim, which is awesome. Again, this is done to show Cap's personality, let Banner see what type of person Cap is, and allow the viewer to compare him with others in the movie, specifically Loki.
Cap's stance on Banner is comparable to SHIELD, and everyone else. He thinks Banner is of use, and a good man, but is weary of him turning into the Hulk.

When it comes to light that Loki's cage was meant for the Hulk, does Steve object? He doesn't.

Meanwhile, Tony thinks the Hulk can be used for good. And the rest of the movie bears him out. Banner returns because of the influence Tony had over him, not because of Steve.

They even make a point of showing that Tony believed that Bruce would join them, and that Steve didn't.

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3) Stark comes in because he wants the cube.
Absolutely and utterly false.

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He and Thor are used to doing whatever they want, they have never really had to answer to anyone, so they start fighting because they each want to do their own thing. Who is the one with the level head? Cap. Cap comes and tells them to knock it off, even lectures Thor saying stop messing around. He even blocks Mjolnir, which is surprising to Thor. Maybe Thor should take a step back and listen to this guy.
This moment I liked, and is one of the things Whedon did right.

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4) When they get back on the ship, Cap is the only one who is still trying to figure out why Loki let himself be captured. Banner says don't worry about Loki. Stark is trying to turn Banner into the Hulk. But Cap is the one who says I want to know why Loki let us take him. Cap is the one who says knock it off to Stark, and then he hones in on Loki's plan. I think Loki's trying to wind us up. Another example there to show Cap's personality, in this case, contrast it with Tony, who wants the cube for himself, and Banner, who says not to worry about Loki.
Actually, Banner agrees that Loki is hiding something. Also, while Steve believes Loki is hiding something, he doesn't effectively do anything about it. It's Natasha that tricks him into spilling his plan.

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4) After everything happens on the helicarrier, after Coulson dies and Loki escapes, Tony realizes he fell for Loki's trap, as Cap put it, trying to wind them all up. He also realizes that Cap was right the whole time, which significantly changes how Tony views Cap. When they first meet, Tony isn't impressed by him, going so far as to insult him, saying everything special about him came out of a bottle. Well, no it didn't. Tony fell for Loki's trap, Cap didn't.
Actually, no. Cap falls for it as much anyone, inspite of him thinking Loki is winding them up, he falls for it. He discovers the HYDRA weapons, learing that SHIELD is making WMDs, leading to schism among the Avengers and SHIELD. Which is what Loki wanted.

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Cap was on him from the get go. This is apparent in the next scene when Tony confronts Loki:

...a supersoldier, living legend who kind of lives up to the legend...

This is the big change in Tony's character. Half way through the movie, Tony was insulting him, saying they should have left him frozen. Now though he has seen what makes Cap special. Cap has proved to Tony why people revere him so much.
Except that says more about Tony's growth as a person than it does about Steve.

The legend of Cap is that of a soldier. He didn't really live up to the legend until he was on the ground, directing the battle, AFTER Tony gave that little speech.

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In addition, Whedon makes a note to put Cap's courage on display several times, from the him being the first one to take on Loki, alone
And loosing.

I don't expect Cap to win, but he went in, expecting to be able to take Loki down, but got thrashed instead. You actually see him panicing the moment his first blow fails to have an effect. It didn't feel as brave is felt like Cap didn't really know what he was getting into.

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to when he was risking his life by jumping across gaps all over the helicarriers engine to fix it. In the final battle, when he is running through fire and explosions to go save a bunch of people. Finally the part where he actually gives orders to the NYPD, which is a nod to the confusion/miscommunication which took place among first-responders on 9/11 (AWESOME).
Another thing I thought Whedon did right. But ultimately, it wasn't enough.

1) In his very first scene of the movie, Fury comes to get him, says someone stole the cube, and what does he say when Fury asks him about it? You should have left it in the ocean. That right there sets up Cap, his viewpoint and how the viewer should be contrasting him with the other characters in the movie. Cap believes they should have just left the cube alone. This comes into play later in the movie.[/QUOTE]

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And then at the very end of the movie, when the council asks Fury where the cube is: ...it's where it belongs, out of our reach. So Cap was right the whole time. The cube should have been left in the ocean; if it had, all of this would be avoided.
Cap wasn't the only one saying the cube doesn't belong on Earth. Thor said the same, and unlike Steve, he emphasized it. Steve mentions it once, and drops it.

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Cap was easily my favorite character in the Avengers, Whedon went to great lengths to display his character, in particular that the insult Tony uses, how everything special came out of a bottle, is wrong. His courage, his wisdom, and his moral compass did not come out of the bottle, and those are his true superpowers. All of this exemplifies that while he is not he most powerful or the smartest, he is the wisest, which is why he leads the Avengers.

So calling it lazy on Whedon's part is dead wrong. If you think it was lazy it was because this stuff was going over your head. There is no way I could have pulled all of that from the movie with Whedon writing him in a lazy fashion.
Don't sell yourself short, you managed to pull that Tony wanted the Tesseract for himself quite well.

You're just choosing to see stuff that frankly isn't there, and calling it subtlety even though Whedon didn't treat most characters with such a degree of subtlety.

A previous poster said that people follow Cap because people naturally see him as a leader when they meet him. I called that lazy.


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