The next Xbox

[Parker Wayne]

Originally Posted by Soapy

Microsoft isn't stupid, they know they have to sell this thing to the enthusiast crowd first. So I think they'll definitely come hot out the gate with some new stuff (they've been staffing up quite a bit recently), but it will curtail in subsequent years like it has this gen.

Originally Posted by Iceman

I agree with most of that but I'd say the likes of Apple & Google got their success from the casuals but their products satisified the techies as well. That's why they had long term market dominating success unlike the wii which focused only on casuals. Also they didn't improve the core product, which is a phone to make phone calls & texts, by a crazy amount; they just gave it a tonne of super powers so maybe Microsoft are doing the right thing from that point of view.

I want them to have an extra 2 or 3 must-have AAA exclusives beyond Gears & Halo (the formation of Black Tusk suggests that could be possible) but after that I don't care if they leave it to the multiplatform developers as long as their hardware is great.

I agree with that. They should establish a few more exclusive franchises or I can see them easily falling behind Sony. They also need to do more with Xbox Live Gold. Like I've been saying before, make Xbox Live Gold look more intriguing instead of something that restricts.

I don't disagree with Hippie Hunter on all things, but I disagree about the mentality that Microsoft will completely ignore the Hardcore crowd because ignoring the Hardcore crowd is something that hasn't really worked. The Wii may be the highest selling system, but Nintendo's in the red because of it because people don't see a need for a Wii over an Ipad, or smart phones games while Xbox and Sony is bit more balanced system.

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by terry78

So basically Nintendo had it right all this time, MS was just waiting to see how they could tweak it.

Not really. The strategies of Microsoft and Nintendo are totally opposite of one another. Microsoft's strategy is essentially a tweaked version of Apple and Google's strategy because in the end, their competitors are Apple and Google (and Sony to a lesser extent), not Nintendo.

Nintendo's strategy on the other hand, is all about the games. They're a games company and it's in their DNA. And honestly, they're not as casual as people like to ***** about. Look at my Wii collection:





Sure there are casual games there, but the majority of my Wii and DS games are the core Nintendo franchises like Mario, Legend of Zelda, and Metroid. Not even Nintendo expected the Wii to catch on with the casual audience the way it did. And I find it hard to blame Nintendo for crappy publishers shoveling their ****** games onto their systems.

In the end though, Nintendo's strategy could end up biting it in the ass. Because it is strictly dedicating itself to the games, Nintendo really isn't putting other forms of media entertainment at the forefront. You're not going to see a Video or Music section to the eShop on the Wii U or 3DS the way Microsoft and Sony do on their virtual markets. Sure, Nintendo will allow Netflix, Amazon Video on Demand, YouTube, and Hulu onto their systems, but that's it. It's essentially the bare minimum. They're not going to go to the extent that Sony and Microsoft do by having their consoles play media disks or make deals to put channels on their consoles. And when things are moving to an all-in-one box, this can really hurt Nintendo in an era where games are becoming less of a focus in consoles.

Originally Posted by X Knight

^^ great post, hippie_hunter.

And that's why, even though I got my XBOX first, and I've gone back and forth many times, I ultimately go back to the PS3 as my console of choice.

I feel like PS3 is still focusing on GAMES, not being an all purpose entertainment system, even though I can save my photos, videos, and music to my PS3 ( and it's easier to do that on the PS3 than on the XBOX ) and I can watch Blu-ray on my PS3.

If the next XBOX continues the focus on casual games and being an all purpose console, then I will continue to be loyal to the PS4. especially if the PS4 continues to focus on GAMES, and continues to offer PSN as a free service to go online and play against other gamers.

I feel as if Sony is doing the middle ground of what Microsoft and Nintendo are doing which is appealing to both the hardcore and casual. Sony can't replicate what Microsoft is doing because at Sony's core, they're a hardware company, not a software company. They're out there for you to buy Sony TVs, blu-ray players, PCs, smartphones, PlayStations, cameras, etc.

Unlike Microsoft which can turn the Xbox brand into an all around brand, Sony can't turn the PlayStation brand into an iTunes/App Store, Google Play, and Xbox/Windows Store competitor because because they don't make operating systems for phones and PCs and whatnot. Sony has to rely on Google and Microsoft to provide the OS for their products. And they aren't going to allow Sony to put the PlayStation Store onto their systems.

But Sony recognizes that content sells hardware. It's why they own Sony Music Entertainment to get people to buy CDs and CD players. It's why they own Sony Pictures Entertainment to get people to buy their DVD players, blu-ray disks, and blu-ray players. And it's why they use Sony Computer Entertainment to get people to buy PlayStations. Hardware is nothing without content.

So frankly, I would expect Sony to continue putting out content to satisfy the hardcore audience. But I do think that Sony is going to do a balance and appeal to casual audiences as well. I think the next developers that Sony will acquire will be more along the lines of casual developers. And they will work the PlayStation Orbis to be an all-in-one console as well, I would be surprised if Sony isn't in contact with Google to bring Google TV and Chrome to the next PlayStation and they aren't going to try to bring the channel offerings like HBOGo, WatchESPN, The Weather Channel, Fox, etc. onto the next PlayStation as well.

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by Parker Wayne

This mentality is the same one Sony had why they first released the PS3, and it backfired on them. Microsoft needs to remember why and how they build up so much goodwill and that was through quality games (and being cheaper than the PS3). The drop in quality is why Sony managed to climb up and even themselves up with Xbox. It's dangerous thinking.

I don't mind it becoming an entertainment system because I honestly do use my Xbox more for video than games these days now anyway, but at the same time if I can't really see them completely ignoring the hardcore gamers because look at the Wii; the Wii had the fewest games bought of the three systems. Casual gamers aren't going to buy that many games for their systems, and they'll probably buy a few Kinect games, but are Kinect games that successful?

Remember that Microsoft originally sold these games at a loss because their accessories and games like Halo, Gears, and Mass Effect. They can't completely forget about the Hardcore crowd.

The point of a business is to make a profit. When Microsoft was primarily catering to the hardcore crowd with the Xbox and the start of the Xbox 360's life, they were losing money badly. Investors will be pissed if Microsoft went back to focusing on the hardcore. It's not about the games anymore dude, it's about selling Xboxes and delivering media content through them to the masses.

Sony's initial strategy with the PS3 was all about the hardcore after the PS2 was all about the casual/hardcore hybrid. They thought that the hardcore was willing to take it up the ass and it turns out not enough hardcore gamers were willing to just take it up the ass. And Sony lost a lot of money with the PlayStation 3 and it wasn't until blu-ray became more mainstream and Sony started going back to their original hardcore/casual hybrid did things on the ship start to turn back.

And Nintendo is a company that pretty much focuses on the hardcore. Developers gave up on the Wii not because it was a "casual" console. They gave up on it because the system was vastly underpowered when the industry moved to HD and they have to compete with Nintendo's IPs which dominate Nintendo game sales over third parties. That's why it had the fewest games, not because it was a "casual" console, but because of other factors. And honestly, with Nintendo being a hardcore game company their future is looking rather murky right now because the hardcore game base just isn't big enough.

Basically.....**** the hardcore. They act as if they're more important than they actually are. And this broification of the hardcore crowd....getting kinda annoying.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by hippie_hunter

Not really. The strategies of Microsoft and Nintendo are totally opposite of one another. Microsoft's strategy is essentially a tweaked version of Apple and Google's strategy because in the end, their competitors are Apple and Google (and Sony to a lesser extent), not Nintendo.

Nintendo's strategy on the other hand, is all about the games. They're a games company and it's in their DNA. And honestly, they're not as casual as people like to ***** about. Look at my Wii collection:


Sure there are casual games there, but the majority of my Wii and DS games are the core Nintendo franchises like Mario, Legend of Zelda, and Metroid. Not even Nintendo expected the Wii to catch on with the casual audience the way it did. And I find it hard to blame Nintendo for crappy publishers shoveling their ****** games onto their systems.

These last few posts have been a good read. I was hoping to get to talk more about this subject but these threads have been pretty dead. I do blame Nintendo for the shovelware as it's inevitable that the top publishers are going to leave when your specs are so low. I really believe Nintendo could have cleaned up this gen and set up their future if they had released 2 versions of the wii, one as is & one similar to the wii-u for hardcore gamers. They could have won on both casual & hardcore fronts with full multiplat support (which would have been automatic with half decent specs) stopping the 360 from getting big and being way too far ahead of Sony and not giving them a chance to mount their late recovery. I gave XBox a chance this gen only because of the failings of both Nintendo & Sony to give me what I wanted early on (even though I bought both consoles).

I think the casual term gets confused as (among other things I'm sure) it can relate to the maturity of games, the difficulty, the fanbase, how current & how cutting edge technically/graphically it is & then separately how non-game media friendly the machine is, Kinect (motion) compatibility, its price & how open to and how accepted it is by kids, girls & old guys. Mario can be described as both hardcore and casual but the likes of Gears of War, God of War, Killzone, GTA etc are rarely decribed as casual.

[Parker Wayne]

Well said, HH. I'm not saying that the hardcore crowd is the only crowd, nor are they the most important. I'm also not saying that the next Xbox needs to be a completely hardcore system as like I said, I watch much more video on it than video games.

I just heavily doubt that the next Xbox will be completely casual as you say and completely forget the hardcore crowd. As Soapy said, there's still a crowd of gamers they have to sell to and essentially rebuild upon that market. I don't know what feautres the next system will have, but why upgrade to the next system if I can watch Netflix, HBO, and whatever on the current one. Essentially it's still about games along with entertainment.

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by Iceman

I do blame Nintendo for the shovelware as it's inevitable that the top publishers are going to leave when your specs are so low.

It's not Nintendo's fault that developers didn't want to put in the effort to work with the Wii Remote and it's not their fault that publishers did horrible jobs to market their games.

I really believe Nintendo could have cleaned up this gen and set up their future if they had released 2 versions of the wii, one as is & one similar to the wii-u for hardcore gamers. They could have won on both casual & hardcore fronts with full multiplat support (which would have been automatic with half decent specs) stopping the 360 from getting big and being way too far ahead of Sony and not giving them a chance to mount their late recovery.

I find it to be a bad idea to split the base IMO.

I think the casual term gets confused as (among other things I'm sure) it can relate to the maturity of games, the difficulty, the fanbase, how current & how cutting edge technically/graphically it is & then separately how non-game media friendly the machine is, Kinect (motion) compatibility, its price & how open to and how accepted it is by kids, girls & old guys. Mario can be described as both hardcore and casual but the likes of Gears of War, God of War, Killzone, GTA etc are rarely decribed as casual.

I think far too many games are considered to be casual in todays day and age.

[Parker Wayne]

Out of curiousity, what do you guys consider casual and what do you guys consider hardcore?

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by hippie_hunter

It's not Nintendo's fault that developers didn't want to put in the effort to work with the Wii Remote and it's not their fault that publishers did horrible jobs to market their games.

To be fair, they have the right to refuse any game from being published on their system. Shovelware only became rampant on the Wii bc they allowed it to be

[Soapy]

Originally Posted by hippie_hunter

It's not Nintendo's fault that developers didn't want to put in the effort to work with the Wii Remote and it's not their fault that publishers did horrible jobs to market their games.

It's absolutely Nintendo's fault. They are notoriously difficult to work with.

I think far too many games are considered to be casual in todays day and age.

I don't think it's arguable that games are largely more casual than ever.

Originally Posted by Parker Wayne

Out of curiousity, what do you guys consider casual and what do you guys consider hardcore?

I think it's less about the games themselves and more about an individual person and their behavior. Someone could be super casual about playing Dark Souls, EVE, or Hearts of Iron and really hardcore about Mario, Uncharted, Call of Duty, or iOS games.

[X Knight]

I'm kind of surprised the XBOX won't let you transfer movies, music, and pictures from a USB stick and save it to your console's hd.

hopefully, the next XBOX will let you do that, just like the PS3 does now.......

[Spider-Vader]

Originally Posted by Parker Wayne

I've been noticing that it's been since the launch of the Kinect that games for Microsoft haven't been that good. Mass Effect exclusivity is a huge loss for Microsoft. So was the loss of limited exclusivity for The Elder Scrolls games.

I really wish that MS bought Bioware when the oppurtunity arose, ME & Dragon Age would be pretty big names for the Xbox. As for Elder Scrolls, with the backlash the PS3 version of Skyrim has received, I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda goes back to ES being only on Xbox/PC.

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by Havok83

To be fair, they have the right to refuse any game from being published on their system. Shovelware only became rampant on the Wii bc they allowed it to be

In today's day and age it's kind of a bad practice to just refuse a game showing up on a system. Nintendo loses out on royalties and it sets a precedent towards other publishers that Nintendo is stingy.

Originally Posted by Soapy

It's absolutely Nintendo's fault. They are notoriously difficult to work with.

How so? Microsoft is far more difficult to work with and you don't have publishers acting the same way. It's not Nintendo's responsibility to market the games of their competitors.

[X Knight]

so if the next XBOX includes a Blu-ray player, wouldn't that mean MS would have to pay Sony some kind of royalty fee? meaning, technically, Sony would also profit from every next XBOX sold?

how would that work out?

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by X Knight

so if the next XBOX includes a Blu-ray player, wouldn't that mean MS would have to pay Sony some kind of royalty fee? meaning, technically, Sony would also profit from every next XBOX sold?

how would that work out?

It would be a licensing fee but its not like it would be a whole lot. Sony is just one of the backers behind blu-ray technology. It wouldnt be much different than what they pay MS for having Windows be the OS on the laptops they sell

[X Knight]

ah, I see. thanks.

[Soapy]

Originally Posted by hippie_hunter

How so? Microsoft is far more difficult to work with and you don't have publishers acting the same way. It's not Nintendo's responsibility to market the games of their competitors.

Because Microsoft is pretty good at promoting big third party games on their console. Nintendo? Not only is it rare for them to get behind third party games, but they've actually been known to throw them under the bus by releasing their own games on the same day. Even games that are exclusive to their system. I feel sorry for the poor bastards who decided to make games for WiiWare.

No, it's not Nintendo's job to market other games, but doing so benefits everyone and not doing it hurts everyone.

They're also known to be very stingy with devkits, and they're kind of ***** about hardware in general. Just look at Amazon.

[SolarTiger]

Originally Posted by Parker Wayne

Out of curiousity, what do you guys consider casual and what do you guys consider hardcore?

Casual- little kids, moms, grandmas, girlfriends playing Wii Resort or any kinect game.

Hardcore- people that play ME, Uncharted, Gears of War, Halo, COD, Skyrim

is generally what I assume the two mean.

[WolfCypher]

Originally Posted by SolarTiger

Casual- little kids, moms, grandmas, girlfriends playing Wii Resort or any kinect game.

Hardcore- people that play ME, Uncharted, Gears of War, Halo, COD, Skyrim

is generally what I assume the two mean.

While I don't totally disagree, I don't necessarily equate "dark, gritty, edgy" to hardcore (which I am NOT saying you do...its just a coincidence that the games you listed IMO fit that bill, I am NOT trying to put words into your mouth)...for instance, I'd say your Donkey Kong Country Returns (super difficult game) and your Super Smash Brothers (it has a hyper-competitive tournament scene), or your Ratchet & Clanks (cartoony characters and all) can be just as hardcore as the games you used as examples.


I honestly don't know what the kids consider casual and hardcore anymore, as I've seen it as if people just categorize any game with anything short of your Kratos', your Gears of War, your GTA, or if its not a fighter or a 1st (or 3rd) person shooter as "casual". Used to be a game was considered catering to "hardcore gamers" if it offered a lot of replay value and had a high difficulty...hell, Kid Icarus Uprising fits that bill to a tee. God forbid I go to GameFAQs & argue its validity as hardcore since it features a "cutesy hero" and dares to have a excessive sense of humor and silly...

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by X Knight

so if the next XBOX includes a Blu-ray player, wouldn't that mean MS would have to pay Sony some kind of royalty fee? meaning, technically, Sony would also profit from every next XBOX sold?

how would that work out?

Microsoft would have to pay royalties to the Blu-ray Disk Association which consists of Sony and other companies that developed the blu-ray technology.

Originally Posted by Soapy

Because Microsoft is pretty good at promoting big third party games on their console.

Asides from Call of Duty and a few others, Microsoft has pretty much given up on promoting third party games.

Nintendo? Not only is it rare for them to get behind third party games,

Nintendo backs third party games more than Microsoft does nowadays. They have a very comfortable relationship with Ubisoft and Tecmo. Have backed Capcom on various releases.

but they've actually been known to throw them under the bus by releasing their own games on the same day. Even games that are exclusive to their system.

When have they done this?

I feel sorry for the poor bastards who decided to make games for WiiWare.

The restrictions on WiiWare were put into place because the Wii was such an underpowered system and they had to control how big the games were. With the eShop though, Nintendo is actually very generous to developers. Far more than Sony and Microsoft. It's reportedly becoming a darling with indies.

No

, it's not Nintendo's job to market other games, but doing so benefits everyone and not doing it hurts everyone.

When Microsoft and Sony are barely doing it nowadays, it really isn't a valid criticism on Nintendo for doing the exact same thing.

They're also known to be very stingy with devkits, and they're kind of ***** about hardware in general. Just look at Amazon.

I'll give you that one.

[Grievous]

Critics will always cry that the best console will be the one that offers the most. Games alone even if they are good games doesn't seem to cut it anymore. People like the idea of their game system being more of the entertainment hub. Stuff like game consoles used to be looked at as just something for the person that sits around and plays games all day, now game consoles are being seen more as a must have for anyone that seriously cares about their movies,TV,and music entertainment. I can tell that the attitude of girls has changed over the years. Used to if you went on a date and said you had a game system, likely she would label you a gamer. Now they see it more as yeah everyone has one of those.

[Iceman]

http://gamingbolt.com/ex-ubisoft-emp...ecs-8-core-cpu

Ex-Ubisoft employee apparently reveals Xbox 720 specs: 8-core CPU

Microsoft and Sony have yet to release or even announce their next-generation systems, but we do have these so called industry experts claiming to know the specs, and the latest talk in town is that the Xbox 720 is going to be a monster specs-wise.
According to a Chinese forum TGFC, translated by Gamechup, it has been revealed that an ex-Ubisoft employee who goes by the handle “BD”, has apparently spilled out the next-gen specs of the system.
He says that the system will have an eight-core CPU, an 8800 series GPU, 8 GB RAM and also a 640 GB hard disk drive. Now this clearly means that the Xbox 720 will be a true generational leap over the Xbox 360, right?
Having seen the Wii U disappoint specs-wise, it’s upto Microsoft and Sony to bring in all the goods, gamers depend on them, third-party publishers depend on them, and most importantly the industry depends on them.

[LuisTX85]

How does that compare to the 360?,How much advanced would that be?,I have a 360&PS3 But I don't know **** about specs!

[craigdbfan]

It would be a pretty tremendous leap. It's exactly what I had hoped for.

[LuisTX85]

Cool!

[Benstamania]

Originally Posted by Iceman

http://gamingbolt.com/ex-ubisoft-emp...ecs-8-core-cpu

If this is true...I'm fairly shocked. I really didn't expect next gen to be that big of a difference.

I suppose time will tell. Either way...Don't charge me 700 bucks for it, damnit.