Pepper Potts as Rescue

[kaijunexus]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

I don't think it will be. There's a LOT of scenes in the trailers so far that don't feature Pepper at all, and a good bit of them that show Tony alone. Most of the interviews and write-ups about the movie so far tend to zero in on that feature --- the fact that Tony *will* be alone in this movie, and back to his proverbial cave. I also remember reading that Gwyn said she doesn't have a big role here.

I still strongly, strongly suspect that Pepper dies, period. Nothing would leave Tony more alone than that.

But on that note, I'll throw a (bitter) bone to those still holding out for Rescue armor, and leave you with this passing thought on the idea of Tony putting Pepper in an Iron Man suit to keep her "safe":

....maybe Tony *does* put her in an Iron Man suit to keep her safe from his enemies. And maybe we see that very thing happen in the trailer. When Mandarin's faux news choppers attack the Malibu mansion, it could very well be that Tony has Pepper hastily don his suit to escape....

....and that's actually her we see in the Iron Man suit that gets dragged to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.

I very much doubt that Pepper dies. She is such an integral part of Tony's character in these films that we'd have to dedicate Avengers 2 and Iron Man 4 to just dealing with his crippling depression and grief is she were to be taken out...

[UnionJack]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

I also remember reading that Gwyn said she doesn't have a big role here.

I still strongly, strongly suspect that Pepper dies, period. Nothing would leave Tony more alone than that.

Those two pieces have made my day and excite me more for the film
More Tony development and less Gwyn as she isn't the Pepper I read the better.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by kaijunexus

I very much doubt that Pepper dies. She is such an integral part of Tony's character in these films that we'd have to dedicate Avengers 2 and Iron Man 4 to just dealing with his crippling depression and grief is she were to be taken out...

I think it comes down simply and un-poetically to a business decision. Gwyn has already voiced a desire to move on; she doesn't need the money or the role to stay in the public eye; and Marvel wouldn't mind writing an expensive star's salary off their books.

And from a fanboy standpoint, it frees Tony up to become the player he's always been in the comics. A big wedding ceremony featuring Tony Stark and Pepper (or, well, anybody for that matter) would be bat**** goofy.

[Just one more]

Originally Posted by kaijunexus

Sacrificing your happiness with a person you love for the sake of that person's safety is...disrespectful?.

The similarities to SM2 would be pointed out ad nauseam if they went that route.

Rescue is a far more original way to deal with that same problem.

Those against Rescue must be happy for Pepper to be the damsel in distress. One or the other is going to happen, make your choice as to which you prefer.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Just one more

The similarities to SM2 would be pointed out ad nauseam if they went that route.

Rescue is a far more original way to deal with that same problem.

Those against Rescue must be happy for Pepper to be the damsel in distress. One or the other is going to happen, make your choice as to which you prefer.

Having Tony ditch Pepper because "it's just too dangerous to be around a complicated guy like me" would be very similar to SM2, sure --- and to tons of other movies dating back to the silent movie era. It's an old, old pastiche, but it's a proven one: the hero's world is much too dangerous for him to allow any one female to get too close to.

May be patriarchal and chauvinist and all that, but it makes sense, too: if Tony (or any other hero) wants to *truly* keep his girl out of harm's way, he has to either separate himself from her, or quit his dangerous job. Forcing her to wear a suit of armor every time she goes to the bathroom is *not* a valid option, and in many ways, is selfish on Tony's part and disrespectful to Pepper, in that he continues to put her in danger and draws an even bigger bullseye on her by creating a much higher profile for her.

And no, I don't want Pepper to be "damsel in distress." I want her to be strong and independent, which she's *supposed* to be. There's no better way to show the strength and independence of her character than to show that she doesn't need Tony Stark's help to survive.

[Just one more]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Forcing her to wear a suit of armor every time she goes to the bathroom is *not* a valid option, and in many ways, is selfish on Tony's part and disrespectful to Pepper, in that he continues to put her in danger and draws an even bigger bullseye on her by creating a much higher profile for her.

How is he forcing her? Suit up to go the bathroom? Are you trying to make your argument sound ridiculous?

I think you need to re-read the thread. The suit would be solely for her protection in case the danger came to her. She wouldn't wear it all the time, nor participate in Iron Man's missions, but the suit would be there tucked away just in case something happened. Like insurance, you hope you don't ever need to use it but if you ever do, you're glad you have it. It just makes good sense.

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

And no, I don't want Pepper to be "damsel in distress." I want her to be strong and independent, which she's *supposed* to be. There's no better way to show the strength and independence of her character than to show that she doesn't need Tony Stark's help to survive.

So a supervillain comes directly after her and you want her to use her inner strength and independence to escape. That's what we are talking about here, her being in direct physical danger.

[cherokeesam]

Knock knock! Oh no, here comes Mandarin! Better put on my handy-dandy Ms. Iron Man suit and unibeam his ass out the door.....oh wait, you didn't even want the Rescue armor to have offensive weapons, right? So instead, Pepper sits there inside a tin can and lets Mandy whale on her for awhile, *hopefully* to no effect, and *hopefully* he'll just get tired and wander off after awhile....?

Yeah, good luck with that.

Here's a better idea: the way to keep Pepper out of harm's way in the first place is for Tony to (....say it with me, class: ) separate himself from her permanently so that she's no longer a target. I can just about guarantee that's *exactly* what Shane Black intends to happen, judging from the trailers that feature Tony all by his lonesome, and all the cast/crew interviews and set reports and leaks that describe Tony all by his lonesome.

[UnionJack]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Here's a better idea: the way to keep Pepper out of harm's way in the first place is for Tony toseparate himself from her permanently so that she's no longer a target. I can just about guarantee that's *exactly* what Shane Black intends to happen, judging from the trailers that feature Tony all by his lonesome, and all the cast/crew interviews and set reports and leaks that describe Tony all by his lonesome.

Well thats a Ric Flair Woooooooooo from me.

[Doc Ock]

I'm not sure about Pepper being Rescue BUT I can see Tony putting in a fail-safe system for the armor to automatically protect Pepper and cause her to be in the suit for protection reasons. Or something like that.

[Just one more]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Knock knock! Oh no, here comes Mandarin! Better put on my handy-dandy Ms. Iron Man suit and unibeam his ass out the door.....oh wait, you didn't even want the Rescue armor to have offensive weapons, right? So instead, Pepper sits there inside a tin can and lets Mandy whale on her for awhile, *hopefully* to no effect, and *hopefully* he'll just get tired and wander off after awhile....?

Yeah, good luck with that.

**sigh**

No. She would use the suit to fly herself to safety, more than likely alerting Iron Man to her danger on the way.

I guess you really are trying to make your argument look ridiculous.

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Here's a better idea: the way to keep Pepper out of harm's way in the first place is for Tony to (....say it with me, class: ) separate himself from her permanently so that she's no longer a target. I can just about guarantee that's *exactly* what Shane Black intends to happen, judging from the trailers that feature Tony all by his lonesome, and all the cast/crew interviews and set reports and leaks that describe Tony all by his lonesome.

So you are a fan of them going the Spider Man 2 route, fair enough. Personally I'm not a fan of that but I understand if they do so.

When he talks about protecting the one thing he can't live without, it seems to me like there is the possibility of Rescue.

[The Infernal]

I really don't get why you're such a thing for Pepper as Rescue when you insist that she'll simply run away. It's not just pointless, it's naive. If she were to armour up in film then she would of course get into a fight or two rather than simply run away. You make her seem like she's just a damsel in distress when the first two movies have proved otherwise.

[Just one more]

Originally Posted by The Infernal

If she were to armour up in film then she would of course get into a fight or two rather than simply run away.

Which I personally wouldn't have a problem with, though in the comics the Rescue armor has no offensive weapons.

Originally Posted by The Infernal

You make her seem like she's just a damsel in distress when the first two movies have proved otherwise.

If she has armor then she is hardly a damsel in distress. She could take herself to a place in which she could assist, such as she did in the final battle of IM2, rather than be a hindrance by being under threat.

I don't want to see her fighting the final battle alongside IM or anything but I don't want her just waiting for IM to come and save her. After all, no one here disagrees she is the easiest way for a villain to hurt Stark. If she had a suit to take her to safety, it eliminates that threat.

[The Infernal]

Originally Posted by Just one more

Which I personally wouldn't have a problem with, though in the comics the Rescue armor has no offensive weapons.

The armour itself is essentially an offensive weapon. Whether she carries ballistic missiles or not. The suit itself is still quite deadly. It's not terribly likely she would simply run to safety (which is acting like a damsel) and not take part in fighting in whatever way she can.

Originally Posted by Just one more

If she has armor then she is hardly a damsel in distress. She could take herself to a place in which she could assist, such as she did in the final battle of IM2, rather than be a hindrance by being under threat.

I don't want to see her fighting the final battle alongside IM or anything but I don't want her just waiting for IM to come and save her. After all, no one here disagrees she is the easiest way for a villain to hurt Stark. If she had a suit to take her to safety, it eliminates that threat.

Giving her armour doesn't automatically make her less of a damsel (which she hasn't been in the last two films). Especially not how you seem to define her and the suit. If anything you seem to be reducing her to the role of damsel as Rescue and therefore the armour under those conditions seems to be a backwards character development.

[Just one more]

Running to safety doesn't make her a damsel. Damsel just means a young woman or girl.

In literature and film, a damsel in distress refers to a woman who is placed in a dire predicament and requires a hero to achieve her rescue.

Giving her armor allows her to save herself, without the direct intervention of the hero (Iron Man).

Originally Posted by The Infernal

Giving her armour doesn't automatically make her less of a damsel (which she hasn't been in the last two films). Especially not how you seem to define her and the suit. If anything you seem to be reducing her to the role of damsel as Rescue and therefore the armour under those conditions seems to be a backwards character development.

I think you are using the term damsel incorrectly.

[The Infernal]

I disagree. Even though Tony may not be physically present, you still seem to be arguing that she needs him to rescue her and that the suit is the means to do so. To me that seems like a damsel (by the way I'm not always going to add 'in distress' because that's implied).

What you suggest doesn't add anything to her character, rather it takes away. Pepper in the previous films has shown herself able to actively stand up for herself and take on the situation at hand in her own way without armour. What you're arguing for is to reduce her to someone who simply runs away and needs her hero to rescue her (indirectly or not).

[Just one more]

Originally Posted by The Infernal

What you suggest doesn't add anything to her character, rather it takes away. Pepper in the previous films has shown herself able to actively stand up for herself and take on the situation at hand in her own way without armour. What you're arguing for is to reduce her to someone who simply runs away and needs her hero to rescue her (indirectly or not).

I haven't seen anyone disagree that Pepper is likely to being direct physical danger.

How is she going to "stand up for herself and take on the situation at hand" if the situation at hand is a villain coming after her? Without armor, how is she going to do this?

Also, I haven't been arguing for a development in character arc, what I have been arguing for is what is logical. I haven't seen anyone able to show the flaw in my logic re: Tony building a suit for Pepper.

[The Infernal]

Originally Posted by Just one more

I haven't seen anyone disagree that Pepper is likely to being direct physical danger.

How is she going to "stand up for herself and take on the situation at hand" if the situation at hand is a villain coming after her? Without armor, how is she going to do this?

I'm really starting to wonder if you've actually watched the previous movies. She managed fine before. I don't understand how that suddenly isn't the case anymore. She may come in harms way, but that doesn't mean that an armour of her own is necessarily that answer. If it's simple running away you want, then she can manage that without armour.

Originally Posted by Just one more

Also, I haven't been arguing for a development in character arc

Yes you have.

Originally Posted by Just one more

It's the next logical progression for her character.

Originally Posted by Just one more

what I have been arguing for is what is logical.

No you haven't. You just don't want to listen to the reasons given by various posters. You've just been arguing for what you think would look cool regardless of whether it sets back the character or is appropriate for the movie in general.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by The Infernal

I'm really starting to wonder if you've actually watched the previous movies. She managed fine before. I don't understand how that suddenly isn't the case anymore. She may come in harms way, but that doesn't mean that an armour of her own is necessarily that answer. If it's simple running away you want, then she can manage that without armour.



Yes you have.



No you haven't. You just don't want to listen to the reasons given by various posters. You've just been arguing for what you think would look cool regardless of whether it sets back the character or is appropriate for the movie in general.

+1

[Moridin]

Originally Posted by The Infernal

I'm really starting to wonder if you've actually watched the previous movies.

You mean the previous movies where she was seconds from certain death, only for Stark to swoop in and save her just in the nick of time? Those previous movies?

[Just one more]

Originally Posted by The Infernal

You've just been arguing for what you think would look cool regardless of whether it sets back the character or is appropriate for the movie in general.

Please show me where I have been arguing this because it "would look cool". That is absolute crap. Since you agree Cherokee, please also provide examples.

I could quote myself where I have been arguing for the logical behaviour of Tony to create something to protect "the one thing I can't live without".

Originally Posted by Moridin

You mean the previous movies where she was seconds from certain death, only for Stark to swoop in and save her just in the nick of time? Those previous movies?

LMAO!!! EXACTLY

For some reason they think she should use her inner strength and independance to escape an attack from a supervillain.

[UnionJack]

Originally Posted by Just one more

For some reason they think she should use her inner strength and independance to escape an attack from a supervillain.

The only strength she has is the power of moaning at Tony like he's an idiot child.
Her scenes in Avengers are cringeworthy prancing around in short shorts like she is super hot wanting her own building. I've yet to see her do much other than ask Tony to sign some paperwork or look at his schedule.

I hope they do kill her off, or at least re-cast/re-write her.

[Lian]

Last night I dreamed that I saw a second (and very detailed) trailer for IM3. It implied that Pepper died at the hands of the Mandarin and that Tony replaced her with a LMD of her because he couldn't live without her. Repression of reality can be very effective. But when they get attacked again by the Mandarin it becomes obvious that she's just a LMD but Tony still refuses to accept that Pepper is actually dead.
It was a very emotional scene and even though this story arc won't happen in the real movie I kind of wish it would because this dream was very powerful and thrilling.

Maybe in IM4

[The Infernal]

Originally Posted by Moridin

You mean the previous movies where she was seconds from certain death, only for Stark to swoop in and save her just in the nick of time? Those previous movies?

She still managed without armour, which is an undeniable fact. How that is suddenly not the case, I don't know. They must have released a director's cut I'm not aware of.

And who saved who in IM1 exactly? If Tony had saved her, wouldn't she then be somewhere safe rather than still close to the fight? From what I recall she was still there at the fight and even managed to finish off Stane (at Tony's instruction). Plus earlier she had went into the lion's den essentially to hack Stane's computer. Not to mention the Monaco scene where it was Pepper and Happy that saved Tony (even if they did put themselves in danger as well).

Some of you are acting like the villain simply comes to kidnap her and tie her up in his hidden lair while twirling his mustache. My point is that, even though Tony has at times showed up to save her, she has still shown herself to be capable in a number of situations and that the Rescue armour is undeniably not needed.

Originally Posted by Just one more

Please show me where I have been arguing this because it "would look cool". That is absolute crap. Since you agree Cherokee, please also provide examples.

Specifically, no. However, your insistence that she suit up doesn't have anything to do with her character, so it doesn't leave much left than it being simply because you want to see it. You insisting that it's logical for Tony to make her a suit doesn't make it so.

Originally Posted by Just one more

I could quote myself where I have been arguing for the logical behaviour of Tony to create something to protect "the one thing I can't live without".

You're taking one line in the trailer and applying it to an idea you want to see while dismissing all other possibilities of what that could mean. The trailer does also show the armour possibly attacking her directly after that quote you keep coming back to (if that is not a dream sequence). Somehow I find it difficult she'd be keen to be in one after that.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by The Infernal

You're taking one line in the trailer and applying it to an idea you want to see while dismissing all other possibilities of what that could mean. The trailer does also show the armour possibly attacking her directly after that quote you keep coming back to (if that is not a dream sequence). Somehow I find it difficult she'd be keen to be in one after that.

Hell, Pepper doesn't even look keen in the direct dialogue with Stark. When Tony says "the one thing I can't live without" and gestures towards her, she's got her arms folded across her chest and she looks very, very displeased with Mr. Stark. So if he *is* implying that he wants to build her a His N Hers Matching Love-Buddy Suit, Pepper doesn't look like she's buying it for one second.

[The Infernal]

I didn't even consider that, Cherokeesam. It's a fair suggestion.