The SUPERIOR Spider-Man

[Donald Thomas]

Originally Posted by socool

Dan keeps seeing that Superior #1 holds a surprise for what to expect as far as the comic goes. Just going out on a limb, and following these ideas of Peter's mind coming back, do you think they could pull of a Jekyle and Hyde thing here? Like, Otto has the majority of control over Peter's body but every once and a while, Peter will come back for a while and take over again. It would definitely fit into the "creepy, twisted" tone that Dan said he was going for. A Spider-Man with real identity crisis.

Aloha,
Definetly an identity crisis. Both Kraven the Hunter and Doc Ock, could only beat their enemy by becoming their enemy. We know what happened to Kraven. How will Doc's massive ego deal with the fact that he could only beat Spider-Man by becoming Spider-Man?Talk about schizoid personality!
Spidey rules

[Fanged-Hunter]

Originally Posted by slimshady247

Yeah, I'm sure they'll bring Peter back by saying that he was just being suppressed or something all that time. Nonetheless, I'm interested in Superior. Will be picking it up.

They'll bring Peter back just in time for the Amazing Spider-Man sequel to hit theaters!

[OctoHaz]

Originally Posted by Fanged-Hunter

They'll bring Peter back just in time for the Amazing Spider-Man sequel to hit theaters!

Oh, absolutely.

Doc Ock as Spider-Man won't be a long ride, I don't think, no matter what Slott and Company say. Shoot, I would not be surprised to learn that Slott's already got the end-game for this arc planned out. But, to borrow a term from professional wrestling, they've got to keep up the kayfabe that Superior'll go on for 700 issues and is the new status quo forever and ever amen. It's part of the gimmick.

Just like Captain America's death. Everyone knew that Steve Rogers wasn't going to be dead forever; it was just a matter of when would he come back and what the story would be in the meantime.

[Miken Ayers]

Originally Posted by OctoHaz

Oh, absolutely.

Doc Ock as Spider-Man won't be a long ride, I don't think, no matter what Slott and Company say. Shoot, I would not be surprised to learn that Slott's already got the end-game for this arc planned out. But, to borrow a term from professional wrestling, they've got to keep up the kayfabe that Superior'll go on for 700 issues and is the new status quo forever and ever amen. It's part of the gimmick.

Just like Captain America's death. Everyone knew that Steve Rogers wasn't going to be dead forever; it was just a matter of when would he come back and what the story would be in the meantime.

The seeds for undoing this have already been planted. Peter as Ock already told Carlie what's up. She's gonna remember that conversation once "Superior" starts acting out of character.

[spida-man]

Superior is gonna be awesome.

[Miken Ayers]

Originally Posted by spida-man

Superior is gonna be awesome.

You cannot say that with any degree of certainty anymore than someone can say it will suck.

[socool]

Originally Posted by Miken Ayers

You cannot say that with any degree of certainty anymore than someone can say it will suck.

[VenomSpawn]

I wish that picture was real, even though I liked the issue.

[webhead921]

I look forward to the return of Peter, but I am excited for the suspense and uncertainty that superior Spider-Man will bring

[shinlyle]

You know the sad thing? This is the most lively these boards have been in years. Ever since BND began, the discussion around here as totally dies. Tha says something. They have to stir up the fanbase every once in awhile and yes, even anger them, to keep the product from becoming stagnant.

Peter's body is alive with a psychic link established to Peter, as 700 showed, but, from another point of view, Ock only deals in science. He implanted his brain waves, thought patterns, etc over top of Peter, and Peter's over the top of his. Their souls are still in the respective bodies. We've even seen both the personalities of the original body hosts take over on occasion before 700 ended! The arms reflexes deflecting the bullet at Carlie, Ock protecting Aunt May so fiercely, etc. I think that it's more like a computer program, and some form of interruption to the program will erase the overlaid personality.

OR, one of the two golden octobots will be found by an Avenger. There are two back doors, and that was just me winging it. This won't last long, and if it does, just enjoy the ride.

[OctoHaz]

Another option for Peter's return is that Otto has an actual redemption arc with Superior, and in the end he voluntarily relinquishes control back to Peter. (Perhaps by using the golden octobot that has Peter's "soul molecule" in it? Dan Slott's made a point of using that idea twice now, to establish it as a Thing (tm).)

Oh, and not to be pedantic, but Otto Octavius has for YEARS shown that he can be just as protective over May Parker as Peter. He's got a soft spot. A better example is in Avenging Spider-Man 15.1, where Otto's about to pass by an instance of petty theft (because it's "beneath" him) and his arm shoots out to knock out the thief anyway. It gives him pause; he hesitantly decides that it was instinct.

[The Infernal]

Originally Posted by shinlyle

You know the sad thing? This is the most lively these boards have been in years. Ever since BND began, the discussion around here as totally dies. Tha says something. They have to stir up the fanbase every once in awhile and yes, even anger them, to keep the product from becoming stagnant.

Peter's body is alive with a psychic link established to Peter, as 700 showed, but, from another point of view, Ock only deals in science. He implanted his brain waves, thought patterns, etc over top of Peter, and Peter's over the top of his. Their souls are still in the respective bodies. We've even seen both the personalities of the original body hosts take over on occasion before 700 ended! The arms reflexes deflecting the bullet at Carlie, Ock protecting Aunt May so fiercely, etc. I think that it's more like a computer program, and some form of interruption to the program will erase the overlaid personality.

OR, one of the two golden octobots will be found by an Avenger. There are two back doors, and that was just me winging it. This won't last long, and if it does, just enjoy the ride.

There's a couple of problems I have with that theory. One I don't really think Peter blocking the bullets fired by Carlie really point to Ock's personality reasserting itself since anyone would instinctively shield themselves from being shot at and it doesn't seem like he did that on purpose or that "Ock" unconsciously reasserting himself at that moment.

However, my main problem with the theory is that as a story it is incredibly stupid. It may mean getting Peter back a whole lot easier, but it completely reduces Doc Ock to complete a moron. I mean it would essentially mean he didn't understand his own master plan, actually believing it to be a real body swap when it's not.

The alternative with that theory is just intentionally making Peter believe he's Doc Ock and vice versa on himself. That makes even less sense.

Originally Posted by OctoHaz

Another option for Peter's return is that Otto has an actual redemption arc with Superior, and in the end he voluntarily relinquishes control back to Peter. (Perhaps by using the golden octobot that has Peter's "soul molecule" in it? Dan Slott's made a point of using that idea twice now, to establish it as a Thing (tm).)

Oh, and not to be pedantic, but Otto Octavius has for YEARS shown that he can be just as protective over May Parker as Peter. He's got a soft spot. A better example is in Avenging Spider-Man 15.1, where Otto's about to pass by an instance of petty theft (because it's "beneath" him) and his arm shoots out to knock out the thief anyway. It gives him pause; he hesitantly decides that it was instinct.

I think a redemption arc where he ends up giving back the role of Spider-man to Peter Parker could prove to be interesting, but I also think that it would be interesting to see it go the other way and have him ultimately fail and you have Peter's friends and allies fighting to get him back.

[Spider-Gnome]

Originally Posted by OctoHaz

Another option for Peter's return is that Otto has an actual redemption arc with Superior, and in the end he voluntarily relinquishes control back to Peter. (Perhaps by using the golden octobot that has Peter's "soul molecule" in it? Dan Slott's made a point of using that idea twice now, to establish it as a Thing (tm).)

Pretty much what I've been saying in a bunch of posts on these threads.

Originally Posted by OctoHaz

Oh, and not to be pedantic, but Otto Octavius has for YEARS shown that he can be just as protective over May Parker as Peter. He's got a soft spot.

Yeah, others have said that was proof of Pete still inside, but I took it as pure Otto, who almost married that "dear sweet woman."

[Donald Thomas]

Originally Posted by shinlyle

You know the sad thing? This is the most lively these boards have been in years. Ever since BND began, the discussion around here as totally dies. Tha says something. They have to stir up the fanbase every once in awhile and yes, even anger them, to keep the product from becoming stagnant.

Aloha,
And you discovered this when?Marvel is a business and they've seen what you are talking about for quite some time now.Happy New Years!
Spidey rules

[Rogue Kira]

I only hope that we see peter again someday cuz I can't see Doc Ock as spiderman for long no matter how much he pretends to be peter. . as far as i know he is atleast to me will be only ever doc ock in peter Parker body . I will yet again put my faith in dan slott .Cant wait to pick up that brand new issue of Doc ock err i mean "Superior Spider-man.
Oh and Marvel in the next fifty years in stead of bending us over the table ,how about you just send flowers instead.

[stillanerd]

Well regarding what I think could happen over the course of Superior Spider-Man, here's some of my theories: http://www.spidermanreviews.com/2013...-superior.html

[runawayboulder]

Originally Posted by stillanerd

Well regarding what I think could happen over the course of Superior Spider-Man, here's some of my theories: http://www.spidermanreviews.com/2013...-superior.html

Great article man.

I'm totally with you on the Carlie and MJ front. I think they're going to be the two that play the biggest role in getting Peter back. Carlie first, then MJ once Carlie is able to convince her that something major is amiss and what she'll come to suspect (what we already know). From there, they're gonna need an ally. I doubt DD or any of the Avengers can help them right off the bat, so I think this is where Harry Osborn steps in. He's gonna be their muscle to combat "Spock's" moves while like you said, Julie Carpenter helps Peter on the astral end.

I expect the key players to be Spidey's supporting cast in this, not the Avengers. I like the idea of the supporting cast having their normal roles turned upside down during this ordeal. If anything folks like DD, Strange and the Avengers will be there for the endgame only.

This direction has a TON of great potential. That's why it's not fair to lump the Spock era into past stuff like the Clone Saga and OMD. Those leave you with a bad taste in your mouth, this excites and intrigues. Far out there...sure. Was ASM 700 a bit of a let down considering how Dying Wish kicked off...yeah. But in the end 700 will just be a footnote of this era. I'm looking forward to it.

[runawayboulder]

And the robot duplicates you mentioned is interesting. I never really put much thought into that myself. Peter saw stuff before he died that Ock has no idea he saw. It could be key going forward.

[OctoHaz]

Originally Posted by stillanerd

Well regarding what I think could happen over the course of Superior Spider-Man, here's some of my theories: http://www.spidermanreviews.com/2013...-superior.html

An excellent read -- very thoughtful and thought-provoking! I quite enjoyed.

[The Infernal]

Personally I'd like MJ to figure it out on her own. Maybe the big twist in Superior is that MJ is already harbouring suspicions of Peter not being 'quite himself'? I would like that because I think this sort of story has been done time and again and I think if MJ is actively trying to find out what's up from almost the start then it could make the story a different read altogether.

I also hope that Harry Osborn is in the mix in the story. I'd really like to see him play a big role in this.

I'm wondering, since stillanerd mentions Ock possibly missing his tentacles, could we perhaps see him make 'spider leg' substitutes? That would be interesting to see.

[OctoHaz]

Originally Posted by The Infernal

Personally I'd like MJ to figure it out on her own. Maybe the big twist in Superior is that MJ is already harbouring suspicions of Peter not being 'quite himself'? I would like that because I think this sort of story has been done time and again and I think if MJ is actively trying to find out what's up from almost the start then it could make the story a different read altogether.

Also, since MJ has sussed out Chameleon pretending to be Peter, what, twice now? Yyyeah, I'll be disappointed if she doesn't figure things out, or at least get suspicious.

My personal (minor) hope for the Superior run is that we'll see a return of Carolyn Trainer. Mwahahaha.

[Spider-Gnome]

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

This direction has a TON of great potential. That's why it's not fair to lump the Spock era into past stuff like the Clone Saga and OMD. Those leave you with a bad taste in your mouth, this excites and intrigues. Far out there...sure. Was ASM 700 a bit of a let down considering how Dying Wish kicked off...yeah. But in the end 700 will just be a footnote of this era. I'm looking forward to it.

Totally agree! I've suffered crap, I Am the Spider, Clone Saga, Sins Past, The Other, OMD, and this in no way anything like that.

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

Great article man.

I'm totally with you on the Carlie and MJ front. I think they're going to be the two that play the biggest role in getting Peter back. Carlie first, then MJ once Carlie is able to convince her that something major is amiss and what she'll come to suspect (what we already know). From there, they're gonna need an ally. I doubt DD or any of the Avengers can help them right off the bat, so I think this is where Harry Osborn steps in. He's gonna be their muscle to combat "Spock's" moves while like you said, Julie Carpenter helps Peter on the astral end.

I'm afraid of reading stillanerd's theories because they may come too close to be spoilers! But, as far as Carlie & MJ, I too would rather MJ figure out something is not right with Pete herself. He doesn't seem himself. Carlie only supplies MJ with the info on what is possibly up with Pete. And I agree Julia Carpenter has to be involved in this story. She has clearly been forshadowing events prior to this.

[Themanofbat]

Unless they reveal Peter to be Spider-Man, I doubt we'll see Harry involved...

[Donald Thomas]

Originally Posted by Spider-Gnome

Totally agree! I've suffered crap, I Am the Spider, Clone Saga, Sins Past, The Other, OMD, and this in no way anything like that.



I'm afraid of reading stillanerd's theories because they may come too close to be spoilers! But, as far as Carlie & MJ, I too would rather MJ figure out something is not right with Pete herself. He doesn't seem himself. Carlie only supplies MJ with the info on what is possibly up with Pete. And I agree Julia Carpenter has to be involved in this story. She has clearly been forshadowing events prior to this.

Aloha,
Along with Madame Web also comes Doc Strange.This Peter Parker has a different aura. I said it from day one, Doc Ock has NO SENSE of HUMOR. Any hero that has worked with Spidey in the past (which is most of the MU) will recognize after a while that this guy is way too serious or just not the joker they know and love(or tolerate).His heart rate may be the same to DD and he may smell the same to Wolverine,but his demeanor will not be the same.We've already seen Ock get flirtatious with a few women in passing. Now that he's this handsome strapping young man,what's he going to be like?Again, makes for great storytelling.But, never ever forget, he's a criminal hiding out in the body of a super hero.
Spidey rules

[stillanerd]

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

Great article man.

Thanks.

I'm totally with you on the Carlie and MJ front. I think they're going to be the two that play the biggest role in getting Peter back. Carlie first, then MJ once Carlie is able to convince her that something major is amiss and what she'll come to suspect (what we already know). From there, they're gonna need an ally. I doubt DD or any of the Avengers can help them right off the bat, so I think this is where Harry Osborn steps in. He's gonna be their muscle to combat "Spock's" moves while like you said, Julie Carpenter helps Peter on the astral end.

Hmm...Harry somehow getting involved is something I didn't think of. And I can imagine if things ever got to the point you suggest, he would go, "I left New York in order to get away from this kind of crap. Now you want to drag me back into it? What about my life? I've got a son. Who's going to look after him if something happens to me?" Basically he'd be torn between wanted to avenge his best friend and wanting to hold onto his second chance at being a good dad.

I expect the key players to be Spidey's supporting cast in this, not the Avengers. I like the idea of the supporting cast having their normal roles turned upside down during this ordeal. If anything folks like DD, Strange and the Avengers will be there for the endgame only.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

And the robot duplicates you mentioned is interesting. I never really put much thought into that myself. Peter saw stuff before he died that Ock has no idea he saw. It could be key going forward.

It seemed like strange thing for Slott to just throw in there that I can't help but think it's deliberate somehow. For some reason, I'm envisioning Peter brain inside a robot that looks like a younger, more muscular Otto Octavious with the gold octobot attached the back of his neck.

Originally Posted by OctoHaz

An excellent read -- very thoughtful and thought-provoking! I quite enjoyed.

Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it.

Originally Posted by The Infernal

Personally I'd like MJ to figure it out on her own. Maybe the big twist in Superior is that MJ is already harbouring suspicions of Peter not being 'quite himself'? I would like that because I think this sort of story has been done time and again and I think if MJ is actively trying to find out what's up from almost the start then it could make the story a different read altogether.

I agree MJ should figure out on her own that "Peter" is not who he says he is. Heck, I think that's what she was trying to determine in issue #700 when she was surprised to see "Peter" wearing his Spider-Man costume underneath; she may have already been thinking "Peter" was an imposter but ruled it out because she assumed who ever was impersonating Peter wouldn't also know he was Spider-Man. But if she doesn't know yet, like I said in my article, she's bound to figure something is wrong. Sort of like how in Invasion of the Body Snatchers in which a loved one of a pod person just knew that their spouse, child, parent, friend or whomever just knew they were not who they said they were but couldn't explain it or give a logical explanation as to why. That's how I think MJ would see it.

I'm wondering, since stillanerd mentions Ock possibly missing his tentacles, could we perhaps see him make 'spider leg' substitutes? That would be interesting to see.

If he did, I wouldn't think it would be for while he's Spider-Man but for whenever he's in Peter's lab at Horizon, to show that having some mechanical apparatus for walking is now more of a habit than a necessity.