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Old 01-07-2013, 07:48 AM   #601
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

This all sounds like WAAYYYY too much effort just for Wasp, she isn't that much of a big deal, the MCU would still work perfectly fine is she never even turned up. She's not that much of a key character.

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Old 01-07-2013, 08:05 AM   #602
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Look outside the box. Put things in perspective. Yes, we know that Whedon originally intended for Wasp to be in Avengers 1, but he says he couldn't find a place for her....that means that, even if your "sources" and speculation about this "Waspy" script were right, even Joss thought it was all bull**** and scrapped it from Day One.
Could also be that MARVEL said to scrap it too. I'm sure Joss didn't have both hands on the reins and could do 100% what he wanted, right? Maybe they said Wasp is too early and we need to ease her in later and figure out a way to market things just right so we can push and get the GA more intrigued and anticipate an "Ant-Man" movie. Seeing how most people outside of comic fans have laughed or had a look on their face that says Ant-Man sounds stupid...I see this as a strong possibilty.

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The other point to consider is that if/when Janet Van Dyne shows up in the MCU, she will, of necessity, have/need a role in Edgar Wright's Ant-Man movie. Anything the screenwriter does for Janet in any prior movies (like, per your speculation, IM3 and Avengers 2) would have a great impact on what Wright can or cannot do with the character, then, in *his* movie. Do you really think that Shane Black or Joss Whedon want to step on Edgar Wright's toes and shackle him to THEIR vision for Janet....? I strongly doubt it.
Again...MARVEL is in charge and they know where they want there universe to go and I'm sure they've given Wright freedom but have still given him certain guidelines to follow so his story/script isn't totally separate from the rest of the current MCU. On the other hand "Ant-Man" could be just that and have zero to do with Phase 1, 2, or 3 and be unattached from the current MCU arcs altogether.


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And finally, the other point to consider is: is Stephanie Szostak superhero material? Does anybody here really envision Stephanie Szostak as becoming a prime mover in the Avengersverse? Someone whose star power will carry through all the Avengers sequels and Ant-Man? Off of a bit part in IM3? She's hiding her age well, but I've seen her in several movies, and she may be a pretty lady, but she's also a pretty old lady. I'd say she's chasing 40 and catching up to it in a damn quick hurry, if she hasn't already taken the lead.

I strongly doubt Szostak is Marvel's choice for a major Avenger. When Janet Van Dyne *does* enter the MCU, it will be a major role, and it will be very publicly known, because Marvel will go through the same very public auditioning and casting sessions that they've done for all their other lead heroes, up to and including the buzz surrounding casting for Star-Lord and Drax in GOTG right now. Renner and ScarJo are the only major MS superheroes I can think of that amounted to "surprise" announcements; and the surprise there came from the fact that they landed marquee Oscar-caliber players. Szostak, on the other hand, is a Hollywood nobody, comparatively speaking.
You could've arguably said the same for Chris Hemsworth.

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Old 01-07-2013, 08:06 AM   #603
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It's the classic fanboy wish fulfilment, where they WANT something to be true so they forget to scrutinise any info that might confirm what they want.

And then there are the people who like to be the one to GIVE them what they want, even if it's horsecrap.... It's a bizarre cycle of events.
On the contrary, I've scrutinized absolutely every post, inside source, possible spoiler, and piece of information multiple times. Sought out any information I missed, and have considered almost everything.
From different angles.

And then I have a bit of my own wish fulfillment in there.

The thing is some of the pieces are theories that come from popular speculation, and some of the extra speculation I've added in is from this very site. Using some pieces of theories I believe are right that I've appropriated and sometimes ones that might have a 50-50 chance because part of this includes calculating probabilities based on a null hypothesis and negating other possibilities as you go + a combined form of inductive/deductive reasoning... I'm cutting the theories down, and rejecting certain ones, negating some of the possible ones, but you're not seeing any of that. And helping me inch closer and closer to the true scenario

I truly believe she will be Wasp from all the information I've come across.
There's no one else who would fill that role, even if we don't know who she is.
I don't actually care, at all, about Wasp as a character...

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Old 01-07-2013, 08:13 AM   #604
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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When Janet Van Dyne *does* enter the MCU, it will be a major role, and it will be very publicly known, because Marvel will go through the same very public auditioning and casting sessions that they've done for all their other lead heroes,
Do they have to, or can they bypass normal procedure to thicken there plots and keep movie goers on their toes and have surprise elements and intrigue? Even more so the GA, because even the GA, I believe will grow tired of the same tactics for the next 8 years if they're not being teased and just spoon fed everything, right? Not arguing, just inquiring.

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Old 01-07-2013, 08:28 AM   #605
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Do they have to, or can they bypass normal procedure to thicken there plots and keep movie goers on their toes and have surprise elements and intrigue? Even more so the GA, because even the GA, I believe will grow tired of the same tactics for the next 8 years if they're not being teased and just spoon fed everything, right? Not arguing, just inquiring.
Of course they can, but Jan is not the character to do so. Cpt. Marvel is a character they can play the secret game with us, if they want, but there is no reason for everyone in their right mind to do so with Janet van Dyne

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Old 01-07-2013, 08:32 AM   #606
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Again...MARVEL is in charge and they know where they want there universe to go and I'm sure they've given Wright freedom but have still given him certain guidelines to follow so his story/script isn't totally separate from the rest of the current MCU. On the other hand "Ant-Man" could be just that and have zero to do with Phase 1, 2, or 3 and be unattached from the current MCU arcs altogether.
Ant-Man is "officially" part of Phase II, even though its release date is after Avengers 2, because when MS announced that their Phase One collectors' edition would include previews of Phase II films, Ant-Man was included in the same list as IM3, T:TDW, CA:TWS, Avengers 2 and GOTG.




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You could've arguably said the same for Chris Hemsworth.
Yeahhhh.....but. Hems is about 15 years younger than Szostak. Unless you believe they want Jan to be portrayed as a middle-aged woman, I'd look for a 20something actress to land the role of Wasp.

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Do they have to, or can they bypass normal procedure to thicken there plots and keep movie goers on their toes and have surprise elements and intrigue? Even more so the GA, because even the GA, I believe will grow tired of the same tactics for the next 8 years if they're not being teased and just spoon fed everything, right? Not arguing, just inquiring.
Marvel Studios isn't traditionally in the business of sending out red herrings and false flags. People who are used to that with, say, Chris Nolan and JJ Abrams try to impose that on Kevin Feige, and Feige just simply isn't that kind of person. Yes, he plays his cards close to the vest when it comes to casting calls and the like and says not to believe anything until you see it on screen (or at least get it from an official MS presser), but he doesn't pull "John Blakes" or "Miranda Tates" or "John Harrisons" on the public. Thanos and The Other are about the only real instances of something coming out of left field in MS films.

That's why I think people are reading wayyyy too much into Szostak's role. We had this same kind of rampant speculation about Leslie Bibb and Olivia Munn in IM1 and 2 because of the fact that Marvel didn't officially reveal their roles, only that they had been cast. So automatically everybody assumed "SECRECY! MYSTERY CHARACTER!" ....but the truth turned out to be much more mundane, that they were just ****-buddy reporters and Stark sexual conquests. In fact, I'll bet *my* one million Internet dollars that Szostak will be just that, and third in a running gag for the series.

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Old 01-07-2013, 08:38 AM   #607
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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i don't mind it.. it's like 99% of ironman's foes anyway... it's staying true to the character.

it'd be like saying "spider-man has too many animal themed foes" or "batman has too many mob bosses.."
Not really. there's a distinct difference in Spidey foes, say for example The Lizard and The Rhino, or The Vulture and Doc Ock. Completely different characters. But Iron man foes like Titanium man and Crimson Dynamo? They're practically the same character.

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Old 01-07-2013, 08:51 AM   #608
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Marvel Studios isn't traditionally in the business of sending out red herrings and false flags. People who are used to that with, say, Chris Nolan and JJ Abrams try to impose that on Kevin Feige, and Feige just simply isn't that kind of person. Yes, he plays his cards close to the vest when it comes to casting calls and the like and says not to believe anything until you see it on screen (or at least get it from an official MS presser), but he doesn't pull "John Blakes" or "Miranda Tates" or "John Harrisons" on the public. Thanos and The Other are about the only real instances of something coming out of left field in MS films.

That's why I think people are reading wayyyy too much into Szostak's role. We had this same kind of rampant speculation about Leslie Bibb and Olivia Munn in IM1 and 2 because of the fact that Marvel didn't officially reveal their roles, only that they had been cast. So automatically everybody assumed "SECRECY! MYSTERY CHARACTER!" ....but the truth turned out to be much more mundane, that they were just ****-buddy reporters and Stark sexual conquests. In fact, I'll bet *my* one million Internet dollars that Szostak will be just that, and third in a running gag for the series.
I've realized now It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that it's Cabe I now kind of see that as an alternative to her. You sort of showed me that when you suggested Justine. I still believe it will be Jan but you've talked me out of being certain. I still know she's in Avengers 2... but that doesn't mean she's definitely in this film so I may have trusted the wrong people about who she is. Something Wardell said in the interview makes sense now. He actually said he personally believed she was Bethany. Now I kind of get how that might work with a news angle and be connected to the plot. Maybe she's the ex gf and she came to check in on Stark/torment him and then gets involved in the plot, she would work better undercover. Still could be wrong, so I'll change my position.
Highly certain she'll be Wasp, but really she could be Cabe, or someone else. Could be a reporter, I definitely see the validity there. Though I believe Wasp and Cabe are more probable than anyone else when you consider all the context. If they're covering her up for a reason.
The justine hammer angle could even be there.

Why cover her up if there isn't some sort of secrecy to her role?
She's in the trailer and seems like a part of the movie and not really some random girl, so why not reveal her character? We know many other characters that give the plot away, so there has to either be something more. Or nothing like you say. But if it is nothing why include it in the trailer? She does look at least kind of serious about what evers happening maybe there is real attraction there? If she shows up as Bethany Cabe, his exgirlfriend, that might explain a little.

Inductive reasoning is based on a guessing game, but derived from specific facts.

It allows for the conclusion to be false even if the premises are true...

For example an inductive assumption is

If all lifeforms we know depend on liquid water to exist,
Then there's a very good chance that all life needs water to exist.

However, as you can see the conclusion could be false but is likely true...


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Old 01-07-2013, 09:31 AM   #609
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

I'm just saying it seems plausible for Wasp to be introduced in a indirect way as a way to introduce her and Pym. As a way to spark curiosity to the GA if her identity or Pym's appear in a end credits and expanded on in CA2 where they are prone to be more likely to be interested in an Ant-Man movie. Because most of the GA...thinks it would be goofy.

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Old 01-07-2013, 09:39 AM   #610
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

You know what would be really crazy? If Guy Pearce's Killian ended up actually being Hank Pym!!! And all this nanotech actually have to do with Pym particles! Now may the internet a splode.

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Old 01-07-2013, 09:53 AM   #611
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

Pearce would have been sweet as a hero.

Really I think Edgar Wright is a good director, and writer--even though others always work on scripts and he didn't really write the whole thing... He'll eventually find a good Pym

Simon Pegg might actually be good as a villain.

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Old 01-07-2013, 10:04 AM   #612
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

Hey! I came to this thread to get away from nonsensical arguments. If I wanted that I'd be in the Pepper Pots thread right now.

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Old 01-07-2013, 10:21 AM   #613
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Pearce would have been sweet as a hero.

Really I think Edgar Wright is a good director, and writer--even though others always work on scripts and he didn't really write the whole thing... He'll eventually find a good Pym

Simon Pegg might actually be good as a villain.
Egghead?

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Old 01-07-2013, 10:37 AM   #614
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

He would fit right in at AIM.
He does try to attack them very shortly after they can control ants and has some involvement in that.

I really think the plan might have been changed for Radioactive man.

There are others who could be there in the past.
The idea is they need one human villain to add to the Ultron/origin plot, he can't be a really major villain.

Because of the nature of it occurring before all of these events (taking place in the past according to Wright's original screenplay) there are a few different ways to change things if Radioactive man isn't used.

Some of these rumors that show up are very true, but they plant some false stuff within by creating these multiple scenarios... as backup plans usually for what they're actually looking at, to replace characters etc. Even though some of the claims about Thanos probably had no sources, certain people like Jordanstine did. There's always gonna be those cases, thus always a possibility what I've been told and am conveying about my source talking about Wasp is absolutely correct. That other people on the web talking about Wasp are correct.

So when Wasp was taken out of the early drafts to Avengers, Hawkeye and Widow got more time and Hill was introduced... some of the early rumors about that actress being looked at for Wasp were true. however, they heavily altered everything and put in the maria hill character.. parts of that original plan for Wasp could be intact and I can't know for sure how they would use her, but really it's only adding her one movie later.
Wright's script is taking a long time. mainly because it has to do for Ant Man what the Iron Man movie did for Iron Man. Make Ant Man more of a household name/ more popular character than he's ever been.

With egghead he could even add a little humor to the role, so there's a good chance.

"He had captured the Wasp to try luring Hank into a trap involving several creatures like an anteater, but this failed"


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Old 01-07-2013, 10:54 AM   #615
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

So how do help push Ant-Man as a household name? By building the story in small increments through Phase 2, imo. Ant-Man is different than IronMan...the GA could be more persuaded with one movie like IronMan because of the overall origin story and he wasn't a laughable hero who was a tiny man.

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Old 01-07-2013, 11:11 AM   #616
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Exactly. You have to build up the mystery of where he's gone. Give little hints along the way through phase 2. Jan is eventually revealed to be searching for him in this scenario. In one plotline from the comics Egghead is involved with taking revenge on Pym by helping the masters of evil kidnap him.

It could be as simple as AIM or a villain or the masters did something to him... we don't know what... but we get to find out throughout phase 2. Jan has her shrinking powers already if Ant Man occurs in the past and that basic premise is still intact, so little hints to the backstory are given in CA2.
Pym is built up as a character many people are looking for by Avengers 2, but he doesn't even want to be a hero right now. Each need his science skills. He was Ant Man in the past... We meet him during a version of the identity crisis. In this case, past events have forced him to give up the Ant Man persona. Shield knew about this, they made Lang his replacement and Lang is still around.

The Ant Man name wouldn't be something he likes, and jokes would have been made about it at first. Lang embraces the name. Eventually it becomes something he accepts as his responsibility, he has to stop Ultron. Lang is briefly Ant Man in Avengers 2 before he dies. Giant Man has to take back the mantle. Pym isn't Ant Man throughout Avengers 2. He rejects the name the first time we meet him.

Giant Man is the name he uses. The first time we see his superhero persona(s) he's Giant Man, chronologically taking place after the Ant Man movie. Released before the origin.

He's reunited with Jan and they have slightly different powers because she mainly shrinks... Giant Man is a big help in stopping Thanos and defeating Ultron. Pym's origin movie would show him as Ant Man some time before this...

At Lang's funeral Pym looks back on his life as Ant Man and how Lang continued the name. It occurs as an origin as he says goodbye to Lang in the present... part of it in the present at Lang's gravesite. Pym contemplates his first adventure as Ant Man and we're shown the entire thing. In the end he reverts to the Ant Man name to honor Lang, the title of that movie, and the identity he now uses. So we'd meet him as Giant Man first...

She thinks Stark might know something about his disappearance/kidnapping and questions him, knows Stark from the media.

The whole thing behind Fury saying part of a bigger world now and Shield made lots of mistakes, some recent; he's implying that Shield did something that was a little less recent.

also some events have already occurred.
There are in fact other superheros and forces out there they're not aware of yet.
But Fury knows about some of these things.
Thanos comes into it without backstory, we don't need to know his powers and what he's up to yet...

Fury has plenty of secrets. He knows Thor's kind aren't the only ones out there.
He knows much more than he's saying and something happened involving Shield, AIM & Pym in the past


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Old 01-07-2013, 11:45 AM   #617
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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I've realized now It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that it's Cabe I now kind of see that as an alternative to her. You sort of showed me that when you suggested Justine. I still believe it will be Jan but you've talked me out of being certain. I still know she's in Avengers 2... but that doesn't mean she's definitely in this film so I may have trusted the wrong people about who she is. Something Wardell said in the interview makes sense now. He actually said he personally believed she was Bethany. Now I kind of get how that might work with a news angle and be connected to the plot. Maybe she's the ex gf and she came to check in on Stark/torment him and then gets involved in the plot, she would work better undercover. Still could be wrong, so I'll change my position.
Highly certain she'll be Wasp, but really she could be Cabe, or someone else. Could be a reporter, I definitely see the validity there. Though I believe Wasp and Cabe are more probable than anyone else when you consider all the context. If they're covering her up for a reason.
The justine hammer angle could even be there.

Why cover her up if there isn't some sort of secrecy to her role?
She's in the trailer and seems like a part of the movie and not really some random girl, so why not reveal her character? We know many other characters that give the plot away, so there has to either be something more. Or nothing like you say. But if it is nothing why include it in the trailer? She does look at least kind of serious about what evers happening maybe there is real attraction there? If she shows up as Bethany Cabe, his exgirlfriend, that might explain a little.

Inductive reasoning is based on a guessing game, but derived from specific facts.

It allows for the conclusion to be false even if the premises are true...

For example an inductive assumption is

If all lifeforms we know depend on liquid water to exist,
Then there's a very good chance that all life needs water to exist.

However, as you can see the conclusion could be false but is likely true...
Bethany Cabe certainly makes sense, too, and I'd be willing to place a few bets on Szostak playing that role. I'd also consider Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine and Madame Hydra/Viper (as opposed to The Wolverine's bizarre take on her) as long shots, too.

About the "mystery" and "secrecy," though: I don't think there's necessarily any there at all. It's just a case that no interviewer has actually approached Szostak and asked her point blank who she was playing or what she was doing in the movie, and she's not an important enough role for Marvel to make an announcement. Again, just like Leslie Bibb and Olivia Munn.

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Old 01-07-2013, 11:57 AM   #618
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This all sounds like WAAYYYY too much effort just for Wasp, she isn't that much of a big deal, the MCU would still work perfectly fine is she never even turned up. She's not that much of a key character.
Bite your tongue! She's easily "the heart" of the avengers

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Old 01-07-2013, 12:01 PM   #619
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

Allow me to interrupt my own "spec war" battles and rampant guesswork to give out some REAL news on the IM3 front:

It appears that IM3 is about to get a little more global. They're preparing to shoot scenes in India now, where it appears that some Indian outsources for Stark Industries will help fix some "glitches" in the armor:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entert...e1-986141.aspx

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Old 01-07-2013, 12:08 PM   #620
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

If it's Cabe or Justine I can see some of the need for secrecy there.
And you're definitely right about a lot of things when you're theorizing, so I value your opinion and definitely take all your posts into consideration.

Maybe she is just a nobody

We'll hopefully know more about what's actually on screen once we get another trailer.

I just think it's even more interesting now. Cabe could fit in nicely with all the spy stuff and could be working one side. Justine could even be doing something minor for the Mandarin, and Stark doesn't know who she is.

For each of these possibilities you might need that secrecy element to cover up the revelation of whatever she's doing in the film. If it's Cabe she could be secretly working the spy angle against him, angry ex gf lol. One of the many people trying to kill him. Or maybe she wants to get back together with him? If it's Justine she could be getting revenge. It's almost like it's made to generate speculation if they show more of her.

We really do need to get someone to ask something to her or about her. That way we get some sort of answer, even if it's vague, that we may be able to use as a clue.

Listing her in the cast fairly early and not revealing the role seems like she has a little more importance. I'm not sure when Bibb or Munn would have been announced, but we've known/not known about Szostak for quite some time.
Some people over at screenrant wanted her for Wasp so it would be funny if it is happening that way right now.

Maybe I should step back a bit, focus on this movie mainly, and not worry about that role.
i just can't get over the fact that it looks like she's somewhat assaulting him in that brief scene. If it's Wasp I'd say she's almost pretending to flirt with Stark, using one of Stark's weaknesses: women, and trying to force him to give her information about AIM. She wouldn't actually want to be with Stark. And Stark has Pepper so he's not charmed by her method of interrogation. She only cares about what AIM has done to Pym and thinks Stark might know.Alternatively one of the other women could be doing almost the same thing.

It'd be more comic accurate if she was flirting or pretending to flirt with Thor.


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Old 01-07-2013, 12:09 PM   #621
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Allow me to interrupt my own "spec war" battles and rampant guesswork to give out some REAL news on the IM3 front:

It appears that IM3 is about to get a little more global. They're preparing to shoot scenes in India now, where it appears that some Indian outsources for Stark Industries will help fix some "glitches" in the armor:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entert...e1-986141.aspx

Oh I can picture the 'call centre' jokes already.

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Old 01-07-2013, 12:17 PM   #622
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

Here's the relevant info about the India shoot, which will take place in Hyderabad and/or Bangalore (Bengalaru):

Quote:
The latest news is that makers of the Robert Downey Jr superhero film — Iron Man 3 — will soon be location scouting in India. They are also looking to take things a step further, by having Indian techies in the two IT hubs — Hyderabad and Bengaluru — sort out some technical glitches for Iron Man.

A trade source reveals that a contingent of about 12 people, led by director Shane Black, is set to fly down to India by this month-end for a recce. “They will be here between January 20 and 24 for an extensive location hunt for certain scenes of the film,” says the source.

In the film, protagonist Tony Stark’s company dealing in cutting-edge technology, and with USA outsourcing work to India, the makers plan to utilise this in their storyline. “They will be visiting Hyderabad and Bengaluru to see how they can use this,” the source says, adding, “In the film, supposedly, Stark will be in India, and the techies here will help him with his technological problems.”

When contacted, distributors Walt Disney Studio Motion Pictures remained unavailable for a comment. Iron Man is a Marvel Comics character being made into a film franchise by Marvel Studios, and distributed by Disney. The third installment will release worldwide on April 24.

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Old 01-07-2013, 12:38 PM   #623
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
Bite your tongue! She's easily "the heart" of the avengers
No really though, she's never interested me at all and seems to get in the way more than actually do anything worthwhile.

If they want to add more characters that can spin off into a franchise and add more depth Wasp isn't one of them.

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Old 01-07-2013, 12:44 PM   #624
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

Mr. Black, consider my work on this forum as my official audition.

I can spout lines like <StereotypicalIndianAccent>"Ah, Mr. Stark, I believe the Extremis interfacing parameter on the main console does, in fact, go to eleven."</StereotypicalIndianAccent> with the greatest of ease.

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Old 01-07-2013, 12:58 PM   #625
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

All this speculation on Szostak, reminds me about those giant metal flying chitauri worms in Avengers. Just like Szostak, we got one brief shot of the thing, and all of a sudden there was talk of Fin Fang Foom and all sorts of crazy theories.

Not to mention the theories we had on the alien force, which was believed to be the Skrulls for close to a year.

I believe that Marvel purposefully place these insignificant scenes in the film knowing that we would scrutinize over every image that was shown in the trailer, as we would consider EVERYTHING that was shown in the trailer to be of significance.

For all we know Szostack could be playing Happy Hoguns wife. He certainly looks like he might be die in this film, she might just be a little upset that IRON MAN couldn't save his own friend, but could easily save the world!!! Lol I'm tired of all these theories...

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