What villains are left for a 4th film?

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^The budget for this is meant to be lower than the last movie, what would be the point of doing Unicron in this movie?

Save him for the biggest threat in the biggest movie.

[terry78]

That was just conjecture from Bay I think.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I dont see why, he said DOTM would have the same budget as ROTF and in the end he was right, why would he suddenly start lying about the budget now?

[Fading]

Like I was saying before, you can just spend a movie or two building up to Unicron. He doesn't have to appear for awhile. Just be a voice in the shadows directing his vanguard (who would be the villains the autobots fight in movie 4) to his next meal, Earth. End of movie 4 they return defeated with the corpse of Megatron. Movie 5 Megs returns as Galvatron, heralding Unicron's return. Unicron doesn't actually appear until the end of movie 5, or in 6. They can introduce him to set up the story without blowing the budget until the huge fight culminates in 6.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I dont know, I think the 4th movie needs to be its own thing, have a totally seperate villain/s like Thunderwing or Straxus. Have a teaser maybe at the end of TF4 showing Megatron being rebuilt into Galvatron.

THEN build up Unicron through movie 5 and reveal him in movie 6 as the big bad.

[Avangarde]

Galvatron doesn't need to be reborn from Megatron, just introduce him as a separate entity. He can be Unicrons harbinger, if Bay was smart he could look at the big picture and plan a head for this new trilogy, leading up to the grand finale of Unicron in movie 6.

[terry78]

I confess he does have a lot of untapped potential left he could deal with. Dinobots, Junkions, Quintessions, whatever.

[Fading]

I never understood the resistance to the Dinobots. Nearly every fan likes them. Yet highmoon had to beg to include them in the fall of cybertron game, and I remember reading once that Bay didn't want them either. On paper robot dino's may sound goofy, but it's been showed repeatedly they can be the badass muscle of the autobots.

[Fading]

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

^I dont know, I think the 4th movie needs to be its own thing, have a totally seperate villain/s like Thunderwing or Straxus. Have a teaser maybe at the end of TF4 showing Megatron being rebuilt into Galvatron.

THEN build up Unicron through movie 5 and reveal him in movie 6 as the big bad.

Personally, I wouldn't have killed off Shockwave in 3. He's been shown to be every bit as much of a villain as Megatron in other Transformer mediums. They could have introduced Ultra Magnus in 4 as the leader of a group of autobot survivors, and Shockwave as a leader of a decepticon army. Shockwave heads to Earth after losing contact with Megatron, and is the villain for 1 movie.

I wonder if they do end up bringing in Galvatron, if they'll give him Cyclonus, and Scourge as minions. Given that all of Megatron's top soldiers died, they need to fill some empty spaces, not just Megatron's.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Originally Posted by Avangarde

Galvatron doesn't need to be reborn from Megatron, just introduce him as a separate entity. He can be Unicrons harbinger, if Bay was smart he could look at the big picture and plan a head for this new trilogy, leading up to the grand finale of Unicron in movie 6.

Thats true, in the more recent comics Galvatron and Megatron existed as seperate entities when Galvatron was following Nemesis Prime, they could easily follow this route in the movie and have it build up to Unicron.

Originally Posted by Fading

Personally, I wouldn't have killed off Shockwave in 3. He's been shown to be every bit as much of a villain as Megatron in other Transformer mediums. They could have introduced Ultra Magnus in 4 as the leader of a group of autobot survivors, and Shockwave as a leader of a decepticon army. Shockwave heads to Earth after losing contact with Megatron, and is the villain for 1 movie.

I wonder if they do end up bringing in Galvatron, if they'll give him Cyclonus, and Scourge as minions. Given that all of Megatron's top soldiers died, they need to fill some empty spaces, not just Megatron's.

Shockwave should never have been killed off, what a waste of an awesome character and potentially superb villain. They should have just used another character in his place as Shockwave, one of the best villains in TF lore, was just simply wasted.

Although there are still other villains they can use, Thunderwing and Sixshot come to mind.

[Avangarde]

Originally Posted by Fading

I never understood the resistance to the Dinobots. Nearly every fan likes them. Yet highmoon had to beg to include them in the fall of cybertron game, and I remember reading once that Bay didn't want them either. On paper robot dino's may sound goofy, but it's been showed repeatedly they can be the badass muscle of the autobots.

I liked the way IDW handled the Dinobots. They were a small science team hunting down Shockwave on earth during the Jurrasic period. They used a special bio-organic skin to coat them when they scanned the local populace. A fight ensured, and they all ended up trapped in a tar pit for millennia. During that time there organic skin corroded away to reveal the exo-skeletal frame, the look they kept when they were dug up in the 20th century. This could work on film.

[Fading]

Originally Posted by Avangarde

I liked the way IDW handled the Dinobots. They were a small science team hunting down Shockwave on earth during the Jurrasic period. They used a special bio-organic skin to coat them when they scanned the local populace. A fight ensured, and they all ended up trapped in a tar pit for millennia. During that time there organic skin corroded away to reveal the exo-skeletal frame, the look they kept when they were dug up in the 20th century. This could work on film.

I like that too. In Fall of Cybertron Grimlock and his team left their station to follow up on something during the last days of the war. They get ambushed, and captured by Shockwave, and his Insecticon army. Shockwave experiments on them to create the ultimate soldier. To achieve this he routes 95% of their power to combat related functions. Making thinking much harder for the Dinobots, whereas before they weren't idiots at the least.

Grimlock ends up fueling his transformation with rage from what Shockwave did to them, and from his difficulty grasping simple ideas. Their forms come from when older transformers explored our solar system before the war, and noted Earth looked ripe for energon. Shockwave studied their finds, and used the biggest, toughest forms from Earth at the time (dinosaurs). Shockwave during that time also discovers the spacebridge, and repairs it.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Originally Posted by Avangarde

I liked the way IDW handled the Dinobots. They were a small science team hunting down Shockwave on earth during the Jurrasic period. They used a special bio-organic skin to coat them when they scanned the local populace. A fight ensured, and they all ended up trapped in a tar pit for millennia. During that time there organic skin corroded away to reveal the exo-skeletal frame, the look they kept when they were dug up in the 20th century. This could work on film.

Originally Posted by Fading

I like that too. In Fall of Cybertron Grimlock and his team left their station to follow up on something during the last days of the war. They get ambushed, and captured by Shockwave, and his Insecticon army. Shockwave experiments on them to create the ultimate soldier. To achieve this he routes 95% of their power to combat related functions. Making thinking much harder for the Dinobots, whereas before they weren't idiots at the least.

Grimlock ends up fueling his transformation with rage from what Shockwave did to them, and from his difficulty grasping simple ideas. Their forms come from when older transformers explored our solar system before the war, and noted Earth looked ripe for energon. Shockwave studied their finds, and used the biggest, toughest forms from Earth at the time (dinosaurs). Shockwave during that time also discovers the spacebridge, and repairs it.

Either of these scenario's could work in a movie setting to set up the Dinobots and would be both plausible and believable in the universe we have seen so far.

Personally I prefer the more recent IDW version as when I read it it was superb and in the movie it would mean we would get to see Shockwave again, albeit in a flashback. But seeing him fighting the Dinobots would be awesome.

[Lord]

Aparently Cyclonus is probably going to be the villain, does anybody know him? Does he make a good villain in a film that also has the dinobots?

Originally Posted by def28

With Bay? Yeah, Im sure he feels challenged by the Avengers to have even more explosions and choas haha. Especially since there are quite a few similarities in the final battle in both films. Im strictly talking action here and Avengers was more successful in that regard as far as the entire final act (DOTM followed Shia/humans too much) but that scene with the driller in DOTM was one of the best set pieces Ive ever seen on film.

Challenged? The final battle in The Avengers was nothing special, don't misinterpet me, it was a better film overall, but in the final battle there never was much tension, i never thought the Chitauri were a big threat that could have defeated the team, and while in the end we saw that people were hurt, during the event itself we never saw that many casualties.

In Transformers 3 we saw people die like bugs, there was tension and the things going on felt big, the characters we know could die any second we saw much more damage. Not saying more damage = better, but the way the battle was presented put more weight into was was going on.

Besides the heroes United there wasn't anything in the battle i would consider exceptional, and from what i heard Michael Bay doesn't even like superhero movie, so besides trying to gain a lot of money too i don't see any reason for why Michael Bay would even try to give something bigger, expecially when he has already done so 1 year before Avengers came out.

Originally Posted by Hypestyle

yep. this would be tricky to pull off, though-- how do you finesse a planet sized structure heading for earth, without setting off all sorts of cosmic mayhem, disrupting earth's orbit?

That was what was going on the climax of Transformers 3 don't you remember? Cybertron was being transported to earth. He pulled that part already, all he would have to do this time would be trying to give us a climax in space, in between the 2 planets (earth and Unicron).

Originally Posted by Cyclonus

Agreed, please no Unicron. Me being a huge G1 fan for over 20 years I don't want Bay to try to put Unicron in his movies, he will screw it up, mess his look, his origin, etc. They could do Galvatron and maybe change his origin a bit, or have Shockwave, or new made up Decepticon Villain, but no UNICRON!

Wait...what? I know he changes a lot of characters but they generally look good in his films, not to mention that after Dark of the Moon, Unicron is almost tailor made for Bayverse. Clash planets done by Michael Bay, can't wait to see that.

The idea that Michael Bay couldn't pull off Unicron just simply doesn't make any sence, because the truth is, if anybody can pull off Unicron, that man is Michael Bay.

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Unicron and Galvatron.

Seriously... some obscure guys ain't gonna interest me at all. It can't be anyone who I would think: "Oh, a second rate Megatron?"

Did anybody even know who the Fallen was before the film came out? He wasn't even a classic villain, he was very recente.

Originally Posted by Fading

I never understood the resistance to the Dinobots. Nearly every fan likes them. Yet highmoon had to beg to include them in the fall of cybertron game, and I remember reading once that Bay didn't want them either. On paper robot dino's may sound goofy, but it's been showed repeatedly they can be the badass muscle of the autobots.

Fortunatelly it seems like Bay is finally using them, if those reports are true, the fact that a Megatron head was spotted on set may also indicate another ressurrection for the character.

[def28]

Originally Posted by Lord

Challenged? The final battle in The Avengers was nothing special, don't misinterpet me, it was a better film overall, but in the final battle there never was much tension, i never thought the Chitauri were a big threat that could have defeated the team, and while in the end we saw that people were hurt, during the event itself we never saw that many casualties.

In Transformers 3 we saw people die like bugs, there was tension and the things going on felt big, the characters we know could die any second we saw much more damage. Not saying more damage = better, but the way the battle was presented put more weight into was was going on.

Besides the heroes United there wasn't anything in the battle i would consider exceptional, and from what i heard Michael Bay doesn't even like superhero movie, so besides trying to gain a lot of money too i don't see any reason for why Michael Bay would even try to give something bigger, expecially when he has already done so 1 year before Avengers came out.

I was talking scale of destruction/setting and note my "haha" and "explosions". Bay is always outdoing films on that scale. I don't see why that would be a surprise.

I disagree with you though.

I like DOTM for the carnage but I have huge issues with it. I actually want the people to die in Transformers because they are all annoying for the most part, like victims in a slasher film. They take away not just a lil but all the time from the autobots. Then we get cheap ass deaths from major Transformers like Iron Hide and Strascream. That was more frustrating then tense. Wreckers, Ratchet, Dino and Sideswipe all did nothing in the last hour. They disappeared or were saving marionette Prime. Theres so many badly written things in here, that just stop it from acheiving a higher level. Avengers put out on what I wanted to see. Transformers didn't. Hulk, Cap, Stark and even Widow/Hawkeye got their time to shine. There was some serious ultra epic crowd pleasing stuff there from everyone.

Besides the drillbot scene in DOTM, there was alot of the same old Transformers stuff going on. Mostly Shia running away and Prime jumping in last minute. It's extremely predictable. I think the first film was actually much more successful on its end battle. Alot of the bot battles near the end really did suck in DOTM compared to the ones in ROTF and TF1.

So while DOTM had what I would call one of the best set pieces I've ever seen, it left me extremely disappointed with the bot battles and just wasn't as exciting to me as Avengers. Just cause people didn't die doesn't means there is no weight. The deus ex machina that is Prime kills the tension of alot of scenes cause we all know exactly how its going down. The writers find a bad way to cut him out and then he owns the **** out of everything at the last minute.

[Lord]

Yeah, you're right about that that the characters being very annoying, However i will say, that i don't have any problem with the military being involved, and i think that in a Transformers battle set on earth they fit very well, for me the only humans that shouldn't be there are Sam and friends.

There were some interesting parts with the military and i'm sure the lack of Sam would have improved some scenes a lot. I remember him accidentally hiting Starscream's eye, from there i knew he was gonna be killed, and that it was going to be a dumb death. With the new film it also seems like Cade, Tessa and Shane are going to serve as the humans between the battle too, which is a shame since i actually enjoyed the scenes of the military in the first and the third film, i think they make more sence as the human protagonits than Sam or the new group.

[def28]

Yeah, I thought Lennox was a cool character. Bay's usually good with the Military stuff. Wouldn't have minded if they evolved the relationship with the Military and Autobots. Maybe build something like an Autobot city. Kind of skeptical on another family being the focus.

Still dug DOTM, despite my complaints and that building collapse still impresses me. Really just having Prime voiced by Cullen is enough to get me to the theatre. Theres so much that goes on in these movies to appreciate on a technical level. Not that I expect this film to be any different, but wish they could fix some of the script problems and bring these films to another level.

[Lord]

Now that you mention it, i think Lennox would have been a better protagonist than Sam, his character is likeable and as a family man it's easy to relate with him, not to mention that with Sam you need or another family you need to force them into the story, while with Lennox and the military they're just doing their job.

I still really liked the actiong in DotM, it's just a shame the story itself isn't near as polished. About RotF, for me that's still by far Michael Bay's worst film, even the action was a big mess sometimes.

[def28]

Yeah, I agree with Lennox. Be an easy way to skip past the bs.

The Forrest battle in ROTF is still my favorite bot fight. The movie falls apart big time after they kill Prime. That's the point I always fast forward to the end. It's def the worst overall of the series and it can be damn well horrible through parts, but I'll still take it over Pearl Harbor and Armageddon. Big fan of Bay but never dug those two at all.

[Lord]

I agree about Pearl Harbor, but not about Armageddon, if only for taking a different concept (even if there was another film with the same concept that year). If i had to rate Bay's films it would be:

The Good Ones:

-The Rock
-Transformers

The Entertaining Dumb Blockbusters:

-Bad Boys II
-Transformers: Dark of the Moon
-Armageddon

Not Bad but still not as entertaining as the others:

-Bad Boys
-Pain & Gain

The Worst:

-Pearl Harbor
-The Island
-Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

Pearl Harbor was bad, but there were some good scenes in there, that's one of his few films where Michael Bay could have put more action in.

[def28]

Man, I thought The Island was awesome. Really dug Pain and Pain too.

Agreed with Transformers and The Rock though.

[Lord]

I liked Pain and Gain but i think it's in the mid level, far from Bay's most entertaining films for me, i wasn't a big fan of The Island, it had too many clichés. But different strokes for different people i guess.

[def28]

Yeah, we all have our issues with flicks. It's all good. Bay's got alot of decent flicks when it comes down to it.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So were was it stated that Cyclonus was the bad guy?

I cant see this being true as he has never been anything more than a lackey for Galvatron in the cartoons and the comics.

[Lord]

There's probably gonna be another surprise villain again, i don't really remember Cyclonus, what did he do exactly?