All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

[ElDuderino]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

Yes but the sci-fi nature of Superman comes with the territory. They're using this against a more real-world backdrop though. It's not rumor and hearsay when they show as much in the trailers... We're not completely stupid until the film releases, we can come to our own thoughts based on what they have shown us now.

There was sillyness in the TDK films too: A prison pit, ninjas, microwave emitters, doomsday bombs.

Precisely. The comparison I typically use is Independence Day vs. Signs. They're both about the same subject mater -- aliens invading Earth. One is grounded in realism and the other is, well, not. It doesn't mean aliens aren't fantastical. It's just a different approach at the subject matter. Avengers can be Independence Day and JL can be Signs.

[Midnight Black]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

Yes but the sci-fi nature of Superman comes with the territory. They're using this against a more real-world backdrop though.

There was sillyness in the TDK films too: A prison pit, ninjas, microwave emitters, doomsday bombs.

That makes no sense. "They're using this against a more real-world backdrop though." Any world on screen is more "real world" until you introduce sci-fi and fantasy.

In all honesty Superman's world isn't any more real world than any other film when it has to deal with galactic travel, aliens and super-powers.

Saying Batman is grounded in the real-world makes sense, because Batman can either just fight crime on the back streets or on a larger scale as a super-hero.

Saying Superman is grounded in the real-world is kind of an oxymoron really unless you make Superman completely powerless. Once you introduce an alien orphan with x-ray/heat vision, super strength/speed and a lieu of other powers then all bets are off IMO as far how far the things can be pushed.

It's not rumor and hearsay when they show as much in the trailers... We're not completely stupid until the film releases, we can come to our own thoughts based on what they have shown us now.

How much did they show us in the 3-5 minute trailer? What all can be deduced from the two trailers we have been given? Cause I can tell you that I have seen plenty of trailers that seem to show one thing and the film was completely the opposite sometimes for the best or worst.

The only thing "real world" about this film is how the govt. would probably react towards Supes or an alien threat. We haven't seen that in other Supes films. Let's be honest there probably isn't going to be anything "real world" about Superman aside from the fact the military doesn't trust him and people close to him get hurt. If this was a real take on Superman then he would have no powers and be some schmo that saved people while wearing a red cape and swinging from ropes.

[SuperMike335!!]

The idea is weather the other people in the world behave in a silly, unrealistic fashion, or if they try to keep the world around Superman serious in nature, without in jokes that take you out of the movie.

Think the behavior of people in the American Godzilla 1998 compared to Cloverfield.

One was treated silly, not too different than Independance day (made by the same people), the other was made more serious in tone, as if the only thing out of place was the sci-fi creature. How would people really behave "if" such a thing were possible, or what looked impossible came to exist?

[Midnight Black]

Originally Posted by Robert Scorpio

Hello Mates

Really looking forward to this film

Lovin the Username. If you are indeed an Aussie or Kiwi that would make a pretty cool porn name lol.

Originally Posted by ElDuderino

No, it wouldn't. It would be cool as hell. And different from anything we've seen before.

It would seem force just for the sake of $$$. How you going to create a grounded non-fantastical Batman and then introduce aliens, magic, and metahumans? If he has a cameo in MoS or is mentioned then I would be more willing to accept Nolan's Batman in a JL film, but if not then I want to see a new Batman.

Plus I'm hoping for a new Batman suit and not the clunky looking separated suit from TDK/TDKR.

Originally Posted by ElDuderino

Precisely. The comparison I typically use is Independence Day vs. Signs. They're both about the same subject mater -- aliens invading Earth. One is grounded in realism and the other is, well, not. It doesn't mean aliens aren't fantastical. It's just a different approach at the subject matter. Avengers can be Independence Day and JL can be Signs.

It's not that one is grounded in realism and the other isn't. They both aren't since they involve aliens. It's that one is an action adventure and the other a suspense-thriller and because the films' bring about different emotions in people/GA we associate the possibility of the more dramatic one being more likely to occur than the other. The lack of sillyness, and unlikely human reactions make the more serious tone film seem more plausible and thus more real.

[Midnight Black]

Originally Posted by SuperMike335!!

The idea is weather the other people in the world behave in a silly, unrealistic fashion, or if they try to keep the world around Superman serious in nature, without in jokes that take you out of the movie.

Think the behavior of people in the American Godzilla 1998 compared to Cloverfield.

One was treated silly, not too different than Independance day (made by the same people), the other was made more serious in tone, as if the only thing out of place was the sci-fi creature. How would people really behave "if" such a thing were possible, or what looked impossible came to exist?

This^^ Exactly what I was trying to say.

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by Midnight Black

That makes no sense. "They're using this against a more real-world backdrop though." Any world on screen is more "real world" until you introduce sci-fi and fantasy.

In all honesty Superman's world isn't any more real world than any other film when it has to deal with galactic travel, aliens and super-powers.

Saying Batman is grounded in the real-world makes sense, because Batman can either just fight crime on the back streets or on a larger scale as a super-hero.

Saying Superman is grounded in the real-world is kind of an oxymoron really unless you make Superman completely powerless. Once you introduce an alien orphan with x-ray/heat vision, super strength/speed and a lieu of other powers then all bets are off IMO as far how far the things can be pushed.

It's not rumor and hearsay when they show as much in the trailers... We're not completely stupid until the film releases, we can come to our own thoughts based on what they have shown us now.

How much did they show us in the 3-5 minute trailer? What all can be deduced from the two trailers we have been given? Cause I can tell you that I have see plenty of trailers that seem to show one thing and the film was completely the opposite sometimes for the best or worst.

The only thing "real world" about this film is how the govt. would probably react towards Supes or an alien threat. We haven't seen that in other Supes films. Let's be honest there probably isn't going to be anything "real world" about Superman aside from the fact the military doesn't trust him and people close to him get hurt. If this was a real take on Superman then he would have no powers and be some schmo that saved people while wearing a red cape and swinging from ropes.

The whole point that they've shown so far is that this is Superman in a very real-world setting. All of the sci-fi elements of Superman are going to be contrasted against the very raw gritty depiction of Earth.

Look at these shots from the film:







Is that imagery anything like The Avengers or even TDK for that matter?

[ElDuderino]

Originally Posted by Midnight Black

Lovin the Username. If you are indeed an Aussie or Kiwi that would make a pretty cool porn name lol.



It would seem force just for the sake of $$$. How you going to create a grounded non-fantastical Batman and then introduce aliens, magic, and metahumans? If he has a cameo in MoS or is mentioned then I would be more willing to accept Nolan's Batman in a JL film, but if not then I want to see a new Batman.

Plus I'm hoping for a new Batman suit and not the clunky looking separated suit from TDK/TDKR.



It's not that one is grounded in realism and the other isn't. They both aren't since they involve aliens. It's that one is an action adventure and the other a suspense-thriller and because the films' bring about different emotions in people/GA we associate the possibility of the more dramatic one being more likely to occur than the other. The lack of sillyness, and unlikely human reactions make the more serious tone film seem more plausible and thus more real.

If you can't recognize that Signs is grounded in realism as compared to Independence Day, then I can only assume you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Whether or not YOU can imagine it being done is irrelevant. It can, and they're doing it.

[sf2]

Funny how Avenger has changed things around. We always thought a superheroes teamup will always fail as there is no enough screen time given to each of the characters and balanced treatment is impossible. some will overshadow the others. In fact, most of us thought that Avenger would surely bomb. How wrong we were.

However, JL isn’t like Avenger. Avenger has all the main characters established in a time line of less than 5 years. JL has nothing. Batman is over. Superman hasn’t even official launched. And GL failed.

[Midnight Black]

Originally Posted by Smallville13

Look at these shots from the film:







Is that imagery anything like The Avengers or even TDK for that matter?

You're completely right. Those three shots make it so apparent that the fim is grounded in realism.

I guess the film Armageddon was grounded in realism too, because it had similar types of B-Role included in its film lol. Those shots mean nothing. All that shows are B-Shots used for artistic value...cinematographer's choice.

The whole point that they've shown so far is that this is Superman in a very real-world setting. All of the sci-fi elements of Superman are going to be contrasted against the very raw gritty depiction of Earth.

I get the whole point of showing superman in a more natural world, not necessarily realistic. IMO that word was misused or rather misinterpreted. The world Superman will encompass will be more natural to what we perceive as real and tangible, thus making it a real-world setting. However, IMO saying MoS will be a real-world Superman is still somewhat of an oxymoron because Superman's world pushes the boundries of real.

The setting may be "real" but the story and theme will venture beyond that obviously.

[Midnight Black]

Originally Posted by ElDuderino

If you can't recognize that Signs is grounded in realism as compared to Independence Day, then I can only assume you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

Calm down Buckaroo Banzai....

The tone and genre of Signs is what made it grounded in more realism than Independence Day because the layman can more easily relate to the actions and behaviors of the characters in Signs than they can in ID4. Both films dealt with aliens (which removes the realism) but it is how they dealt with the issues that make them more believable i.e. real.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. It is however somewhat frustrating when someone goes and accuses someone of arguing for the sake of arguing rather than supporting their points cause they can't.

The problem here is that the words and thoughts are being used interchangeably when they should not.

Whether or not YOU can imagine it being done is irrelevant. It can, and they're doing it.

I have no clue what you are talking about here. If you are referring to Nolan's Batman being apart of JL it was never officially confirmed, at least to my knowledge, that Nolan's Batman would be apart of the JL film.

[Showtime]

I personally don't care where in the "fictional timeline" they want to put a Justice League film and neither will the general public. There is no "can't" when it comes to Warner Bros wanting to make money. It's a money grab, just like The Hobbit trilogy and Warner Bros literally has nothing else for tentpoles. If it is logistically possible for the studio, they will find a way to make a Justice League.

[ElDuderino]

The Hobbit was a fantastic film made by one of the most creative filmmakers of our day, someone who absolutely enjoys the environment, the story and filmmaking and spends literally a decade or more of his life bringing the story to us.

The Nolan trillogy completely transformed comic book movies into a respectable art form, one that can even be considered Oscar-worthy.

We're now about to receive what all accounts tell us is a majestic, even described as "poetic", take on the most beloved superhero of all time, one that even tackles what could be considered high-brow dramatic conceits.

And yet somehow people think it's all just a money grab. Well, I agree, it's a money grab. And they've figured out that the best way to make money is to make really, really, really good films.

[ThePhantasm]

Nice post ElDuderino, and I agree with you completely except I still cynically feel like the upcoming JL film is more in the vein of Green Lantern than the Nolan or Hobbit trilogies. But I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.

[ElDuderino]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

Nice post ElDuderino, and I agree with you completely except I still cynically feel like the upcoming JL film is more in the vein of Green Lantern than the Nolan or Hobbit trilogies. But I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.

Well, hopefully they can take a look at the revenues for GL and the revenues for Hobbit/Batman and take their cue from there. Good movies make money.

[ThePhantasm]

Originally Posted by ElDuderino

Well, hopefully they can take a look at the revenues for GL and the revenues for Hobbit/Batman and take their cue from there.

Yes, one would hope so. A bit of news stating that a new actor has been cast as Bruce Wayne would go a long way toward giving me faith in the film.

[Midnight Black]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

Yes, one would hope so. A bit of news stating that a new actor has been cast as Bruce Wayne would go a long way toward giving me faith in the film.

This I agree with.

[Project862006]

Originally Posted by ElDuderino

Precisely. The comparison I typically use is Independence Day vs. Signs. They're both about the same subject mater -- aliens invading Earth. One is grounded in realism and the other is, well, not. It doesn't mean aliens aren't fantastical. It's just a different approach at the subject matter. Avengers can be Independence Day and JL can be Signs.

so i guess Aquaman is the one to kill Darkseid

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by ElDuderino

Good movies make money.

Let's not be so... definitive, eh?

[BH/HHH]

Originally Posted by Marvin

Meloni to be cast as a high profile general and it not be "Lane"
Plus goyers(yes he also wrote the bat movies wether fans believe it or not) recent nack for having characters show their true colours and or identities towards the end of the flims.

Plus Luthors involvement in the military in the new silly DC reboot.

I think it's a safe bet we've already been introduced to Luthor.

I don't think Meloni's Lex at all, people seem to think there's gonna be sone sort of Miranda Tate like twist just cause Nolan's involved. Why would Meloni's character have to even hide the fact he is Lex? Doesn't really make sense so I don't think he's Lex.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

Let's not be so... definitive, eh?

Amen. TAS was an overrated moneygrab and Dredd the opposite.

[Gianakin_]

What's TAS, precious?

[Rust]

The Amazing Spiderman...

[Gianakin_]

AH YES! Well... I was more referring to Transformers making big money and being a steaming pile of crap, but yes, everyone has his/her own example of why what ElDuderino said just isn't true.

[Rust]

Exactly. There are countless examples to prove otherwise in both directions. Overrated and underrated movies at the B.O.

[Bruce_Begins]

Originally Posted by Project862006

so i guess Aquaman is the one to kill Darkseid

Yes.

There are no Oceans on Apokolips and Darkseid does not know how to swim, so when Darkseid comes to Earth, Aquaman drowns him in the ocean.