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Old 01-09-2013, 02:33 AM   #726
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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@Xeno000, from memory there was also someone who stated the Chitauri were skrulls and Coulson was Mar-Vell...

Speculation is fine and dandy, but when people start listing these vague sources that they only half mention and then bury that with paragraphs upon paragraphs of extra, unnecessary info, I simply smell an attention seeker.
my understanding is that LokiD goes off of his sources info and then elbaorates on the facts he's been told in order to not get himself and his source in trouble. I've PM'd with him and he's made things alot more clear on what he knows and what he's throwing out there to tie the things he knows together smoothly. I'm going to believe him and if I'm duped, oh well.

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Also... How can you trust a guy named Loki? Come on :P
haha very true, he's a shady guy!

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Old 01-09-2013, 02:42 AM   #727
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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my understanding is that LokiD goes off of his sources info and then elbaorates on the facts he's been told in order to not get himself and his source in trouble. I've PM'd with him and he's made things alot more clear on what he knows and what he's throwing out there to tie the things he knows together smoothly. I'm going to believe him and if I'm duped, oh well.
But...I...and that makes sense to you?

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Old 01-09-2013, 02:48 AM   #728
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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But...I...and that makes sense to you?
I know that's confusing, but he has solid information, he just can't come right out and say "X is going to happen because Y is coming into play and Z will be there too" in black and white, he has to take those pieces of info and muddy then up a bit so to say.

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Old 01-09-2013, 03:10 AM   #729
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

After reading his PM, how are you convinced by this? I mean genuinely, what faculties of critical assessment are you applying here? What possible source would be able to reveal ALL those details, many of which aren't just character inclusions but specific story elements? Also the time travel stuff sounds like complete fan fiction...

And there is STILL no reason he can't post it. Why PM it? Nothing about his fanciful story reveals the source or would get him in trouble... It's absolute balderdash

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Old 01-09-2013, 03:16 AM   #730
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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After reading his PM, how are you convinced by this? I mean genuinely, what faculties of critical assessment are you applying here? What possible source would be able to reveal ALL those details, many of which aren't just character inclusions but specific story elements? Also the time travel stuff sounds like complete fan fiction...

And there is STILL no reason he can't post it. Why PM it? Nothing about his fanciful story reveals the source or would get him in trouble... It's absolute balderdash
balderdash lol, that made me laugh. Like I said in the post, the story details are what he says to try and relate the info he's been told (AIM is a major player, Janet/Hank are coming ASAP before Avengers2, Ultron is going to be the baddie in A2.) those are the facts that his source has told him, he tries to relate all those with time travel and all that other stuff, but the main info is there, you just have to look for it I guess. But regardless I'm done flaming with people over it. Seems like only me and Jaqua99 are the only ones who believe him anyways so carry on as before, I'll peep down.

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Old 01-09-2013, 03:17 AM   #731
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

He doesn't have a source ... come on.

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Old 01-09-2013, 03:20 AM   #732
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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He doesn't have a source ... come on.
..but who would go through all the trouble of writing out college essays on the forums just to troll everyone? now that's balderdash! (new favorite word btw) haha

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Old 01-09-2013, 04:41 AM   #733
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..but who would go through all the trouble of writing out college essays on the forums just to troll everyone? now that's balderdash! (new favorite word btw) haha
Someone with far too much time on there hands.
Someone who's read too much Wikipedia and drank loads of Red Bull.

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Old 01-09-2013, 04:45 AM   #734
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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..but who would go through all the trouble of writing out college essays on the forums just to troll everyone? now that's balderdash! (new favorite word btw) haha
Trolls?

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Old 01-09-2013, 07:26 AM   #735
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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As long as Wright was consulted, and the Wasp theory dovetailed in with what he plans to do with Hank and Janet in *his* movie, then yeah, I've got less of a problem with it.

I just don't see where there would've been much time or opportunity for a sit-down over this in 2012, with Wright in England filming World's End, and Black filming IM3 in the US, China and India.
There are such things as internet, webcam meetings, and phone calls.

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Old 01-09-2013, 07:29 AM   #736
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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@Xeno000, from memory there was also someone who stated the Chitauri were skrulls and Coulson was Mar-Vell...

Speculation is fine and dandy, but when people start listing these vague sources that they only half mention and then bury that with paragraphs upon paragraphs of extra, unnecessary info, I simply smell an attention seeker.
Its what happens though... That part is just an inevitable side effect.

Hell sometimes us fans actually come up with some far more brilliant stuff too

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Old 01-09-2013, 07:30 AM   #737
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

What's internet, precious?

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Old 01-09-2013, 07:41 AM   #738
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Originally Posted by mkilban2 View Post
..but who would go through all the trouble of writing out college essays on the forums just to troll everyone? now that's balderdash! (new favorite word btw) haha
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Someone with far too much time on there hands.
Someone who's read too much Wikipedia and drank loads of Red Bull.
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Trolls?
Exactly. Trolls who claim to know secrets and inside info about a hyped film are a dime a dozen on these boards; they get off on this stuff.

The thing I always ask myself about "deep throat top secret inside sources" is: why the hell would they be giving this information to some schmucks like us on a fan forum, instead of to a *real* media outlet where they could, you know, actually make money on this and have a real impact with their leaks?

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There are such things as internet, webcam meetings, and phone calls.
Understood; but how would a webcam meeting like that go, exactly....?

Edgar Wright: "Hi! I'm Edgar Wright, and I've got this nifty new film I've been passionate about making for the past seven years called 'Ant-Man...'"
Shane Black: "Yeah, that's great. Hey, Eddie, I want to borrow your main characters for Iron Man 3."
EW: "....What?"
SB: "Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne. I want to introduce them in IM3."
EW: "...But....I dunno....what do they have to do with Iron Man....?"
SB: "Nothing. But I want to use them to introduce Ultron."
EW: "Ultron, too?!? But...but....I wanted to introduce him as my main villain...."
SB: "Thanks, I knew you'd understand."
EW: "I just don't understand how a fashion designer like Jan...."
SB: "Oh, she's not a fashion designer anymore. She's a spy who's infiltrated AIM."
EW: "AIM?!?! But....they're bad guys...."
SB: "I know that, Eddie. Trust me. Oh, and she beats up Tony Stark in my movie. I'm going to send you pictures of the girl I cast....it's that French chick who was in 'Dinner for Schmucks...'"
EW: "....**** this. I'm outta here." *klick*

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Old 01-09-2013, 09:24 AM   #739
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Edgar Wright: "Hi! I'm Edgar Wright, and I've got this nifty new film I've been passionate about making for the past seven years called 'Ant-Man...'"
Shane Black: "Yeah, that's great. Hey, Eddie, I want to borrow your main characters for Iron Man 3."
EW: "....What?"
SB: "Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne. I want to introduce them in IM3."
EW: "...But....I dunno....what do they have to do with Iron Man....?"
SB: "Nothing. But I want to use them to introduce Ultron."
EW: "Ultron, too?!? But...but....I wanted to introduce him as my main villain...."
SB: "Thanks, I knew you'd understand."
EW: "I just don't understand how a fashion designer like Jan...."
SB: "Oh, she's not a fashion designer anymore. She's a spy who's infiltrated AIM."
EW: "AIM?!?! But....they're bad guys...."
SB: "I know that, Eddie. Trust me. Oh, and she beats up Tony Stark in my movie. I'm going to send you pictures of the girl I cast....it's that French chick who was in 'Dinner for Schmucks...'"
EW: "....**** this. I'm outta here." *klick*
But just WHAT IF...MARVEL wants to do just that?

What if Szostak's role is so small(like that scene alone) but it plants curiosity? Then something is mentioned in CA2 and then leads to their appearance in A2. I see that some may say they don't have to or what's the point, we know them and they'd do just fine showing up for the first time in A2. What if MARVEL feels they'll have a bigger payoff if they subtley thread something. Peaking interest or curiosity as to what's going on with that or what really happened in the past?

I've said this over and over but a lot of people laugh at the idea of an ANT-MAN movie or have never heard of him or think it would be a goofy movie and wonder if it can be pulled off effectively. If ANT-MAN is in the past then it maybe would cause greater anticipation of ANT-MAN for the GA.

If this happens though on whatever level will people be ticked off? I don't think if they do this that it will be done so "thrown in there" like IM2. I think if it happens that it wouldn't even seem relevant until closer to or even in CA2 or even A2. Then people might be like.."ah, I see, hmm, what really happened in the past, what's going on or what is this leading to?" Even more so if there are just hints to Ultron and he doesn't appear until Phase 3 after he's better explained in the ANT-MAN movie.


EDIT: I wanted to add that Janet was a fashion designer but IRON MAN 3 is present day and the ANT-MAN will be the past. If indeed ANT-MAN is a prequel movie. If it's not then I guess it could seem stupid.


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Old 01-09-2013, 09:25 AM   #740
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Exactly. Trolls who claim to know secrets and inside info about a hyped film are a dime a dozen on these boards; they get off on this stuff.

The thing I always ask myself about "deep throat top secret inside sources" is: why the hell would they be giving this information to some schmucks like us on a fan forum, instead of to a *real* media outlet where they could, you know, actually make money on this and have a real impact with their leaks?



Understood; but how would a webcam meeting like that go, exactly....?

Edgar Wright: "Hi! I'm Edgar Wright, and I've got this nifty new film I've been passionate about making for the past seven years called 'Ant-Man...'"
Shane Black: "Yeah, that's great. Hey, Eddie, I want to borrow your main characters for Iron Man 3."
EW: "....What?"
SB: "Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne. I want to introduce them in IM3."
EW: "...But....I dunno....what do they have to do with Iron Man....?"
SB: "Nothing. But I want to use them to introduce Ultron."
EW: "Ultron, too?!? But...but....I wanted to introduce him as my main villain...."
SB: "Thanks, I knew you'd understand."
EW: "I just don't understand how a fashion designer like Jan...."
SB: "Oh, she's not a fashion designer anymore. She's a spy who's infiltrated AIM."
EW: "AIM?!?! But....they're bad guys...."
SB: "I know that, Eddie. Trust me. Oh, and she beats up Tony Stark in my movie. I'm going to send you pictures of the girl I cast....it's that French chick who was in 'Dinner for Schmucks...'"
EW: "....**** this. I'm outta here." *klick*
... dude you do realize businesses and the film industry use webcam meetings, phone meetings, and send script ideas to each other by both email and snailmail every day right?????????????????? lol it's not exactly rocket science.

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Old 01-09-2013, 09:41 AM   #741
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

Most comic writers and artists live in different countries and use email and twitter to communicate. I don't see why that can't be the same for other areas of business ... thought I don't see the conversation being that bad.

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Old 01-09-2013, 09:52 AM   #742
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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... dude you do realize businesses and the film industry use webcam meetings, phone meetings, and send script ideas to each other by both email and snailmail every day right?????????????????? lol it's not exactly rocket science.
Forest, meet trees.

It doesn't matter a bit about the HOWS on a head-to-head, that's not my point. They can have a telepathic mind-meld seance for all I care. My point is I don't see *any* situation where Shane Black would think it's a good idea to muddle an already over-stuffed IM3 with yet another subplot that involves extraneous characters who aren't even applicable to the Iron Man mythos or this story at all....Nor, conversely, do I see any situation where Edgar Wright would be okay with Black doing this and essentially stealing Ant-Man's thunder 2 years out.

Do you?

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Old 01-09-2013, 10:10 AM   #743
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

To be fair Cherokeesam, I don't think it would ever happen like that. Any tweaking or such to the film would involve Black co-ordinating with Feige and Marvel who in turn would co-ordinate with Wright and vice versa. Nothing would be allowed to happen that would upset the apple cart. If Black had an idea that he thought was great for Ant Man or something, he'd probably already be well aware of what Wright is doing so he'd know whether or not it would work.

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Old 01-09-2013, 10:20 AM   #744
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Forest, meet trees.

It doesn't matter a bit about the HOWS on a head-to-head, that's not my point. They can have a telepathic mind-meld seance for all I care. My point is I don't see *any* situation where Shane Black would think it's a good idea to muddle an already over-stuffed IM3 with yet another subplot that involves extraneous characters who aren't even applicable to the Iron Man mythos or this story at all....Nor, conversely, do I see any situation where Edgar Wright would be okay with Black doing this and essentially stealing Ant-Man's thunder 2 years out.

Do you?
see i think you're looking at a muddle mess by jumping right on it... you can't seem to even take a "what if" glance at things and even attempt to understand it "possibly" able to actually not be a mess.

Let's say loki is right.. and Tony bumps into a character in which he's never given a name of who she is.. (obviously AIM is playing a large part in IM3... so there's most certainly a possibility (if jan is trying to find hank/and or trying to take down AIM) There paths cross around the time Tony also discovers the evils of AIM and the two paths cross... a little bit of info is given from the mystery woman.. but not enough where we're left going "who was she and where is she throughout the rest of the film". Basically to the gen public she's sorta a mysterious woman... but nothing too integral (sorta like Coulson in Iron Man 1) but.. she show's up again in Cap 2 and we find even more out about her

hell... the Coulson way is a great way to introduce new characters.. it just doesn't always have to be SHIELD related

like i said before, i see both sides (so playing devils advocate almost if you will), so maybe you should think just for a moment "what if this IS happening, what ideas can i see where this actually works?" and work back from there. The other side of the coin has already stated how they could see it not working too.. so maybe just maybe attempt to think outside the box ?

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Old 01-09-2013, 10:31 AM   #745
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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I mean, there's nothing wrong with speculating, that's what fanboys love doing best... It's just when it goes that step further... Then people start joining the forum and because people are talking about speculation like it's fact, they TAKE it as fact and then before you know it, it's completely out of control.

That's exactly what happened with The Avengers thread and it made that place largely unbearable for a long time.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:51 AM   #746
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
To be fair Cherokeesam, I don't think it would ever happen like that. Any tweaking or such to the film would involve Black co-ordinating with Feige and Marvel who in turn would co-ordinate with Wright and vice versa. Nothing would be allowed to happen that would upset the apple cart. If Black had an idea that he thought was great for Ant Man or something, he'd probably already be well aware of what Wright is doing so he'd know whether or not it would work.
I think Janet being in this movie is a real longshot, but I agree with this. If they wanted to do it, stepping on Wright's toes is probably the least of their worries. They've had a good idea of what the Wright script is like for over a year now so if Black wanted to use one or both, it could be easily done without screwing up anything Wright had planned.

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Old 01-09-2013, 11:17 AM   #747
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Quote:
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I've got nothing against LokiD; I think he's got a great imagination, and some of his theories, even if/when they're completely off target, still make for some interesting story arcs that I'd personally pay good money to go see. There's lots of things he's said about IM3 that I really believe in; I just find the Wasp thing to be completely askew, since the concept is an outright insult to Edgar Wright's Ant-Man and to Avenger fandom in general.

But whoever and whatever anybody chooses to believe, that's your religion, and I'm not going to jihad anybody over it. I *do,* however, reserve the right to do an Internet Happy Dance here if/when it's officially proven that Stephanie Szostak is not Janet Van Dyne.
and what if she is? and exactlly. I don't understand why it's a big deal wthat we beleive him. Worst case scenario is that he was trolling, and he made this speculation phase more fun for me. Either way, it's a win win for me. So it really doesn't matter.

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Why do you care?


For the record, we have had people come here and post things that seemed farfetched but later panned out completely. The most notable was Jordanstine, who gave a complete summary of The Avengers, including descriptions of the leviathans, months before the film premiered. Plenty of people dismissed what he had to say, to the point that he eventually left, but he was right and gave info that would have been interesting if anyone had listened.


Do some people come here and post nonsense? Yes. But a lot of speculation ends up being wrong when all is said and done. All we're doing here, as fans, is spinning theories and discussing the movie. It's all in fun, or at least it should be.
this

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my understanding is that LokiD goes off of his sources info and then elbaorates on the facts he's been told in order to not get himself and his source in trouble. I've PM'd with him and he's made things alot more clear on what he knows and what he's throwing out there to tie the things he knows together smoothly. I'm going to believe him and if I'm duped, oh well.



haha very true, he's a shady guy!
lol true

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He doesn't have a source ... come on.
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..but who would go through all the trouble of writing out college essays on the forums just to troll everyone? now that's balderdash! (new favorite word btw) haha
we don't know that yet.

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I think Janet being in this movie is a real longshot, but I agree with this. If they wanted to do it, stepping on Wright's toes is probably the least of their worries. They've had a good idea of what the Wright script is like for over a year now so if Black wanted to use one or both, it could be easily done without screwing up anything Wright had planned.
yaeh

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Old 01-09-2013, 01:16 PM   #748
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see i think you're looking at a muddle mess by jumping right on it... you can't seem to even take a "what if" glance at things and even attempt to understand it "possibly" able to actually not be a mess.

Let's say loki is right.. and Tony bumps into a character in which he's never given a name of who she is.. (obviously AIM is playing a large part in IM3... so there's most certainly a possibility (if jan is trying to find hank/and or trying to take down AIM) There paths cross around the time Tony also discovers the evils of AIM and the two paths cross... a little bit of info is given from the mystery woman.. but not enough where we're left going "who was she and where is she throughout the rest of the film". Basically to the gen public she's sorta a mysterious woman... but nothing too integral (sorta like Coulson in Iron Man 1) but.. she show's up again in Cap 2 and we find even more out about her

hell... the Coulson way is a great way to introduce new characters.. it just doesn't always have to be SHIELD related

like i said before, i see both sides (so playing devils advocate almost if you will), so maybe you should think just for a moment "what if this IS happening, what ideas can i see where this actually works?" and work back from there. The other side of the coin has already stated how they could see it not working too.. so maybe just maybe attempt to think outside the box ?
Marvel hasn't done a lot of thinking "outside the box" when it comes to the movies. As I keep saying, the whole point of gathering all the movie rights back was so that Marvel could take charge of their properties again and start making characters and stories that more accurately reflected their actual comic-book counterparts, as opposed to the INOs that Fox and Sony and Lionsgate were fanboy-raping.

The MCU is a pretty fair reflection of comic-book Marvel. About the only major deviations from canon I can see are necessary ones, like Iron Man dropping the whole secret identity/bodyguard facade from the get-go, and Cap having to be readjusted for a 70-year long ice bath as opposed to a 17-year one.

So that being said, I can't see Feige agreeing to major changes for Jan or Hank, either. Up to and including probably persuading Wright to come up with a script that fits in with the MCU, as opposed to the leaked first draft which set up the 1960s Pym and 2000s Lang "To Steal an Ant-Man" story arc.

On another note, what's with all this fascination with aligning Hank and Janet with AIM, anyway? AIM had nothing to do with comic-book Hank and Janet, other than the obligatory battles with the yellow beekeeper suits during assorted Avenger issues. Odds are that the MCU version of Hank and Janet will wind up following the Ultimates formula, just like Hawkeye, Cap and Nick Fury did. In which case the Pyms would work for *SHIELD,* not AIM.

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Old 01-09-2013, 01:20 PM   #749
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Marvel hasn't done a lot of thinking "outside the box" when it comes to the movies. As I keep saying, the whole point of gathering all the movie rights back was so that Marvel could take charge of their properties again and start making characters and stories that more accurately reflected their actual comic-book counterparts, as opposed to the INOs that Fox and Sony and Lionsgate were fanboy-raping.

The MCU is a pretty fair reflection of comic-book Marvel. About the only major deviations from canon I can see are necessary ones, like Iron Man dropping the whole secret identity/bodyguard facade from the get-go, and Cap having to be readjusted for a 70-year long ice bath as opposed to a 17-year one.

So that being said, I can't see Feige agreeing to major changes for Jan or Hank, either. Up to and including probably persuading Wright to come up with a script that fits in with the MCU, as opposed to the leaked first draft which set up the 1960s Pym and 2000s Lang "To Steal an Ant-Man" story arc.

On another note, what's with all this fascination with aligning Hank and Janet with AIM, anyway? AIM had nothing to do with comic-book Hank and Janet, other than the obligatory battles with the yellow beekeeper suits during assorted Avenger issues. Odds are that the MCU version of Hank and Janet will wind up following the Ultimates formula, just like Hawkeye, Cap and Nick Fury did. In which case the Pyms would work for *SHIELD,* not AIM.
.... the whole concept of the MCU is "outside of the box".................

that being said...

Hank and Jan are two marvel characters who've truly never been able to support there own books.... they have a simple origin that's been done to death... with the likes of Hulk/Fantastic Four/Spider-Man etc... these are two characters who actually would BENEFIT from a slight twist to there story...

Imagine... Pym's life long work was taken away from him by SHIELD... and in order to save his work.. he uses it on himself, and escapes. When he's found again, AIM offers him a job (no one knows AIM is bad), to jump start his work.. He then learns he's working for the bad guy and is trying to use his abilities for evil... so he tries to take them down.

Wright already mentioned ANT-MAN will be sorta a spy/espionage film... that's not exactly like Hank and Jan in the books either... and with that description in mind... it actually fits what i'm trying to speculate.

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Old 01-09-2013, 02:15 PM   #750
cherokeesam
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - Part 5

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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
.... the whole concept of the MCU is "outside of the box".................
That's the *biggest* "inside the box" there is: the whole point was to recreate a shared universe, just like in the comics.

that being said...

Quote:
Hank and Jan are two marvel characters who've truly never been able to support there own books.... they have a simple origin that's been done to death... with the likes of Hulk/Fantastic Four/Spider-Man etc... these are two characters who actually would BENEFIT from a slight twist to there story...
Wait....what? How is Pym and Janet's story *anything* like the "accidental radiation" origin story? Pym discovered Pym Particles himself, and voluntarily shrank himself into a micro-hero, and then agreed to do the same to Janet to help her track down and kill an alien who killed her father. That's about as far from "simple" and "done to death" as it gets.


Quote:
Imagine... Pym's life long work was taken away from him by SHIELD... and in order to save his work.. he uses it on himself, and escapes. When he's found again, AIM offers him a job (no one knows AIM is bad), to jump start his work.. He then learns he's working for the bad guy and is trying to use his abilities for evil... so he tries to take them down.

Wright already mentioned ANT-MAN will be sorta a spy/espionage film... that's not exactly like Hank and Jan in the books either... and with that description in mind... it actually fits what i'm trying to speculate.
I'll grant you that Wright has been trying to make his Ant-Man film more of an espionage story; but that's also with the understanding that the titular character there has always been *Scott Lang* instead of Hank Pym. Truth is, until we get more solid info on Wright's approach to the story, there's really no telling what he wants to do with this.

But one way they *could* connect Pym to Stark is to make Extremis some variant of Pym Particles instead of nanotech, I suppose. But that would tend to make Pym the inventor of Extremis instead of Killian.....and I strongly doubt *that's* going to happen, given what we know of IM3.

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