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#326 |
Side-Kick
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I think Juno Temple's character was just supposed to be the "turning point" for Selina, in terms of making her start to develop into a less selfish person via that "This is someone's home" sequence.
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#327 |
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That was a horrendous writing low point of the film. It's the purest violation of the show don't tell rule. The entire turning point of her arc is reduced to a single line.
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#328 | |
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I also think her real turning point came prior to that, in her reaction to the Bane beatdown of Batman. She realized she had aided a true monster. |
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#329 |
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She has one shot in the montage which is dominated by her in the foreground of the frame while Jen and a few others are celebrating with champagne behind her. She looked somber to what was happening as opposed to everybody else in the frame, but it ultimately passes by way too quickly and dominated by the rest of the montage and the implications of it in a wider context for me to truly invest in her change.
That is a big problem of Nolan for me. He likes to tell huge chunks of his story in montages which often serve to truncate important elements of character and story. As in, I would like to see some scenes that he devotes a single shot to become full blown scenes, specially ones that involve character. I think one elaborate scene with Selina and the rich couldn't have heart. |
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#330 | |
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#331 |
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Nolan is often allergic to letting shots play out. I would've loved a few more seconds of the back breaking shot. I distinctly remember how elated I was seeing Bane pick Bats up the first time I saw it, anticipating what was to come, and hoping to relish in (in a fanboyish way, I am not a sadist) it's glory, but Nolan completely ruins the effect by cutting away almost instantly.
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#332 | |
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#333 |
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I think I look at the scene a little differently and not as harshly as him, but I still kinda see where that criticism comes from.
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#334 |
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Yeah, I don't think the Juno Temple thing or Selena's decision was a flaw, nor do Nolan's montages bother me. It works for the films. Well, at least for me they do, and I think they are used appropriately when I hadn't really thought more character development was necessarily needed, however I will agree that there could have been more of the riots in Gotham, but I'll just blame it to possibly being trimmed down too much (has anyone read the script? Are there more scenes with Bane's Gotham?). I just don't think it's really needed to spend more time on those moments, so I won't truncate it to any "rules of filmmaking" (my rule to filmmaking - there are no rules to filmmaking. What the director wants, he gets, so technically every film is perfect as long as the director is 100% satisfied. it's just a matter of wether or not the audience likes or dislikes it. But hey, that's just my bizarre view on art in general.) Just thought I'd throw that out there, since now there are a lot of people leaving snooty pretentious comments about what film should or shouldn't be or "NOOO NOLAN YOU CAN'T DOOO THAAAT!!!" and it usually boils down to just being a matter of taste. But you know, give a nerd a laptop and they all think they're film critics (kidding).
Yep. And that's one of my favorite moments of the film because it is played out so well. My only issue is that there isn't one mention of his parents in TDK.
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#335 | ||
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Like soundofyousick says, there's also payoff for that moment in the sword fight scene. Besides, Ra's comes off as the harsh father figure in BB anyway, so it's no wonder he doesn't stop and dwell too much on Bruce's tragedy (well, apart from that scene besides the fire where he mentions his wife). He's more about helping Bruce overcome his grief by tapping into the potential power his anger offers him.
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#336 | |||
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It's different from Spider-man, because his actions played a part in Ben's death, as he still had issues to resolve with Aunt May, so they had to reference that in SM2, although they pushed it too far by bringing that back in for the third film. |
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#337 |
Lobsterized
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I think that's Nolan's M.O. in a nutshell actually. He has such a great knowledge of cinema, and beyond that places such a trust in the audience's intelligence and familiarity with film tropes that he's really able to lean on that as a means to do all sorts of unconventional things.
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#338 | |
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#339 |
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Just two SMALL things.
1. Bane's mask makes the strangest noise when he nods at someone in the stock market. 2. The reflection of the camera win Blake asks Wayne "when you started, why the mask?"
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#340 |
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Things I noticed the first time watching the movie
-the merc telling that one dude to walk a certain way on the ice. Then the merc having a disgusted look when the guy falls in the ice. Maybe that was a cop that went deep undercover as a merc to keep an eye on Bane and the other mercs. - Bruce dropping the rope down the Pit. I think it was already tied up so maybe the other old prisoners got out but then where would they go? - That big black guy merc that was asking Blake who the hell he was. really? Blake was walking around in broad daylight and yet the big black dude merc doent even know who Blake is? - Selina and her little gal pal theif sidekick. The way they kept hanging out with each I think they were bisexual or at least the younger gal was a lesbian or something. |
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#341 |
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I noticed a statue of Julius Caesar as Alfred was walking to take his seat in Italy at the end of the film.
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#342 |
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I raised the volume real high before he nods his head when he makes the noise, it almost sounds like Bane sneezes then nods when one of his men mouths bless you.
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#343 | |
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Nolan never truncates important elements of character and story that serve the main story, but he does in circumstances where being more elaborate is simply a disservice to the main story and risks losing the audience. I guarantee these scenes are extended and were in the rough cuts, but the most efficient story is the best for an audience, especially in a movie this long. What you're describing is self-indulgent and bloating. It's not something the audience needs to understand the situations of the world that play to the principal story, it's repeating information the audience has already gathered, which is a way worse offense than being able to concisely get a point across. In fact, this is one of Nolan's greatest strengths as a director and as a master of visual storytelling. Ie, in BB, you could devote an entire sequence to the stethoscope scene, but he's able to get an entire idea across with a quick, silent edit.
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#344 |
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A pair of shoes, maybe attached to someone, hanging over Selina's shoulder when she's in that hallway while everyone's celebrating. Its during the montage that plays while Bane gives his speech. Also from the montage, in the scene outside the hotel or penthouse, people are being loaded into cattle trucks.
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#345 | |||||||||||||
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No. It's about feeling. Feeling her change. Something, according to the more prevalent criticism of Nolan's work, is a problem his films face constantly. His films stir the mind but not the soul, because he hardly lingers on character. Quote:
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#346 |
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I'm well aware of the criticisms against Nolan's films as being too cold. But to me, TDKR was easily the most emotionally accessible and had the most heart out of any of his films so far. That's kind of why it's interesting to me that some have been so quick to call it his weakest film. I thought this movie very much did stir the soul. It stirred mine anyway. I really think he's taken amazing strides as a filmmaker from Batman Begins onward.
The fact that Nolan is able to balance an intricate plot, compelling themes, huge action and a human center, all with a very personal and specific touch is what makes him such a money director. |
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#347 | |
(A Metal Gear reference)
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However, It also feels like the movie he cared the least about, as TDKR contains some of his most amateur work. I can't imagine that he regressed in his ability, so I can only chalk it up to effort/care. In some ways it's his best movie, in other ways it's his worst. But for me, those high highs make it worthwhile, despite all its faults, and it's why I'm so enamoured with the film and still talking about it here today. Last edited by FeedOnATreeFrog; 01-27-2013 at 12:09 AM. |
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#348 |
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In the grand scheme of things it does seem like Nolan cared less about TDKR, especially since it feels like he had a "F-it, I'll shoot more in IMAX; even if it means truncating certain plot points in the film" mentality.
Still enjoy the hell out of TDKR though. |
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#349 | |
Lobsterized
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![]() That doesn't look like a guy who is disinterested in his own film to me. Talk about micromanaging ![]() |
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#350 | |
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