All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[Rust]

Originally Posted by craigdbfan

We know that it's a commissioned and directionless picture that WB is now desperate to make because of the success of The Avengers. It's being made for all the wrong reasons.

Soulless is the word I'm looking for.

I'm afraid I agree. The way it's been launched seems to be for those very reasons.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by craigdbfan

We know that it's a commissioned and directionless picture that WB is now desperate to make because of the success of The Avengers. It's being made for all the wrong reasons.

Soulless is the word I'm looking for.

Agreed; plus, it doesn't help that by all accounts, we've seen nor heard anything to suggest that those involved and in charge of the project actually got together to map up a general outline at least on how this will all work, with Superman's own solo films going into this new world as well.

Marvel, for their semi hits and semi misses, took more time and care of getting things organized so that things would flow smoothly into the big ensemble.

Not to mention, there's no way of knowing on how every other hero will be received, let alone the actors that are portraying them. At least with "The Avengers", Marvel had time to change or tweak the characterization of their characters if they needed to upon critical response to their portrayals.

Man, if a JLA film ruins MOS's sequel, especially if MOS turns out to be a BIG HIT, then truly, one must wonder if Superman will ever have two great back to back films where the studios involved didn't get involved and mess things up.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Marvel, for their semi hits and semi misses, took more time and care of getting things organized so that things would flow smoothly into the big ensemble.

Not to mention, there's no way of knowing on how every other hero will be received, let alone the actors that are portraying them. At least with "The Avengers", Marvel had time to change or tweak the characterization of their characters if they needed to upon critical response to their portrayals.

Well, Marvel's method did work for them, but I think the reverse method has potential as well. The JL-movie would give an indication of the most popular characters which they then could turn into solo-features.

But now I'm starting to sound like a damn suit...

[Kryptonian Warrior]

I sure hope that in the end all of you guys are wrong and we actually get a kickass movie. Besides, I thought they had been talking about doing a JL film since before The Avengers?

[Gianakin_]

Don't get me wrong, I, too, hope I'm wrong.

And you must be referring to the JL: Mortal movie that G. Miller was gonna direct.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Kryptonian Warrior

I sure hope that in the end all of you guys are wrong and we actually get a kickass movie. Besides, I thought they had been talking about doing a JL film since before The Avengers?

They did, with George Miller, but that doesnt change the way their recent JL-move looks with Avenger's success.

I'd LOVE to see a kickass JL-movie, but not at the expense of the story and most of all the MOS-sequels. And the "copying-the-Avengers" still tastes bad.

[Kryptonian Warrior]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

Don't get me wrong, I, too, hope I'm wrong.

And you must be referring to the JL: Mortal movie that G. Miller was gonna direct.

Yes I was referring to JL: Mortal. So it's not like this is anything new. It's sort of like, but not to the extent of, the failed attempts to get Superman back on the big screen before SR came out.

[herolee10]

Plus, I can't imagine why on God's green earth would Warner Bros. even attempt to release the Justice League film in 2015..of all the years? I mean you have the sequel to the Avengers coming out in that year, and Star Wars Episode 7 as well, and potentially Avatar 2 from what I heard.

The JLA film would literally get lost in the shuffle, and at least those films above have something productive going on for their productions; as far as we've heard, not so much the case for the JLA film.

Seriously, if Warner Bros. ends up destroying Superman's franchise because of the disaster that is JLA, then...oh, idk..but damn, it's times like this where I wish another studio had rights over the character.

[Kryptonian Warrior]

Originally Posted by Rust

They did, with George Miller, but that doesnt change the way their recent JL-move looks with Avenger's success.

I'd LOVE to see a kickass JL-movie, but not at the expense of the story and most of all the MOS-sequels. And the "copying-the-Avengers" still tastes bad.

I will be the first to admit that I haven't been keeping up with JL as much as you guys. So what are the two bolded statements all about?

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Kryptonian Warrior

I will be the first to admit that I haven't been keeping up with JL as much as you guys. So what are the two bolded statements all about?

Well, I'm just saying that no matter how you look at it, it's gonna look like the JL-movie is copying the assemble-concept of The Avengers because of its success. That's what the GA will think, people who dont know of Miller's efforts and the DC comicbooks as well. Not that it will necessarily hurt JL's B.O., but that's how it's gonna look and that would suck for DC and the MOS-universe.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by Rust

Well, I'm just saying that no matter how you look at it, it's gonna look like the JL-movie is copying the assemble-concept of The Avengers because of its success. That's what the GA will think, people who dont know of Miller's efforts and the DC comicbooks as well. Not that it will necessarily hurt JL's B.O., but that's how it's gonna look and that would suck for DC and the MOS-universe.

Agreed; plus, that would regulate on what Superman is allowed to face on his own for his own franchise. I mean, you couldn't really put him in a situation where he's captured and held captive or something like that for several months while Earth is being attacked since there are actually other heroes this time to stop them and such; putting it simply, it'd be very, very hard to push Superman's character to his limits like how TDKR did with Batman since there are actual heroes on Earth this time around.

And MOS wasn't made with the intent of branching out into a JLA film.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Agreed; plus, that would regulate on what Superman is allowed to face on his own for his own franchise. I mean, you couldn't really put him in a situation where he's captured and held captive or something like that for several months while Earth is being attacked since there are actually other heroes this time to stop them and such; putting it simply, it'd be very, very hard to push Superman's character to his limits like how TDKR did with Batman since there are actual heroes on Earth this time around.

And MOS wasn't made with the intent of branching out into a JLA film.

Indeed.

Yeah, at least we're looking at one potentially good "uninterrupted" Superman-tale.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by Rust

Indeed.

Yeah, at least we're looking at one potentially good "uninterrupted" Superman-tale.

Let's just hope that history doesn't repeat itself where we get a bad sequel for MOS after getting a great film, thus the franchise being shelved later on on a very unsatisfying note where we have to wait another 20 some years before we get a new film, only for that to fail as well and thus another few years before we finally get new hope..only for the studios to butt in once more..and thus, the cycle continues.

[Kryptonian Warrior]

Originally Posted by Rust

Well, I'm just saying that no matter how you look at it, it's gonna look like the JL-movie is copying the assemble-concept of The Avengers because of its success. That's what the GA will think, people who dont know of Miller's efforts and the DC comicbooks as well. Not that it will necessarily hurt JL's B.O., but that's how it's gonna look and that would suck for DC and the MOS-universe.

Very good point. I guess I hadn't really thought about the GA and how they would perceive the film. It's definitely going to be an interesting ride.

[Smallville13]

Y'know somethings starting to occur to me about this whole JL debacle.

Well let's look at the facts:

• It was all started by rumor.
• There has never been an official announcement by any involved parties.
• Snyder flat-out denied any involvement and explicitly stated 12 months ago that MOS would have nothing to do with JL.
• Since then he has been coy about it, as has Nolan.

What does this all mean? Well we know that WB is definitely trying to make a JL film. They have been for years. But I feel that it's all still stuck in a gestation wait-and-see period. I think they're still deciding their approach and they're letting sites throw around ideas of building it on the TDK and MOS films as it's an idea they've no doubt thrown around internally.


But really nothing has been announced.


I've actually grown a great amount of respect for Snyder in the last year. MOS looks amazing from what we've seen and it seems like he's treated the source material with more reverence and respect than I could have imagined. I also think himself and Nolan consider their films more 'sacred' and above what WB is prepared to warp them too. Just look at the latest quote from Snyder. He said he has no idea how they can do a JL film (surely he would know alot more than he's letting on regarding the status of JL) but MOS is real, and that's all he's worried about.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Let's just hope that history doesn't repeat itself where we get a bad sequel for MOS after getting a great film, thus the franchise being shelved later on on a very unsatisfying note where we have to wait another 20 some years before we get a new film, only for that to fail as well and thus another few years before we finally get new hope..only for the studios to butt in once more..and thus, the cycle continues.

Are you a realist or a pessimist? 'Cause I cant tell given the circumstances.

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by Rust

Are you a realist or a pessimist? 'Cause I cant tell given the circumstances.

He's right though. If they do go ahead with JL and it goes the way we expect. There's a very real chance that MOS and even TDK trilogy will be dragged down into the muck. Just by sheer association.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by Rust

Are you a realist or a pessimist? 'Cause I cant tell given the circumstances.

Originally Posted by Smallville13

He's right though. If they do go ahead with JL and it goes the way we expect. There's a very real chance that MOS and even TDK trilogy will be dragged down into the muck. Just by sheer association.

If anything, this is what I would describe our association with Superman films:

1. STM: First Love/High School Sweetheart; the one that you never really forget about.

2. SII: After your first breakup with your first sweetheart, you guys get back together, only for something stupid to break you guys apart in the end again.

3. SIII & SIV: The One Night Stands that we'd like to forget.

4. SR: The Rebound; basically, the person that we thought could have been the one, but turns out, we were projecting memories of our first love onto them that blinded us from seeing for what they were really worth.

5. MOS: Potentially, THE LOVE of our life that we had been waiting for all of this time.

6. JLA: The Evil ex of the true love of your life that comes in and ruins it all for you.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Plus, I can't imagine why on God's green earth would Warner Bros. even attempt to release the Justice League film in 2015..of all the years? I mean you have the sequel to the Avengers coming out in that year, and Star Wars Episode 7 as well, and potentially Avatar 2 from what I heard.

The JLA film would literally get lost in the shuffle, and at least those films above have something productive going on for their productions; as far as we've heard, not so much the case for the JLA film.

Seriously, if Warner Bros. ends up destroying Superman's franchise because of the disaster that is JLA, then...oh, idk..but damn, it's times like this where I wish another studio had rights over the character.

It baffles me too.

And something like World's Finest would be SO MUCH more sensible to start off with, and even that i'd rather leave until after MOS2 and one rebooted Batman movie at least.

And I think a World's Finest movie leads so easily into a JL movie.

And can you imagine the hype for a JL movie, AFTER a World's Finest movie had been successful and got everyone gaging for more?

Why on earth do they not see that there are other options than just pointing at The Avengers and going 'I want one of those', without even considering how potentially destructive that knee jerk reaction could be to their reputation and their already existing superhero franchises.

Originally Posted by herolee10

If anything, this is what I would describe our association with Superman films:

1. STM: First Love/High School Sweetheart; the one that you never really forget about.

2. SII: After your first breakup with your first sweetheart, you guys get back together, only for something stupid to break you guys apart in the end again.

3. SIII & SIV: The One Night Stands that we'd like to forget.

4. SR: The Rebound; basically, the person that we thought could have been the one, but turns out, we were projecting memories of our first love onto them that blinded us from seeing for what they were really worth.

5. MOS: Potentially, THE LOVE of our life that we had been waiting for all of this time.

6. JLA: The Evil ex of the true love of your life that comes in and ruins it all for you.

:

[Dr Magneto Doom]

I think if they are planning to make a trilogy then Man Of Steel II should have Brainiac as the villain and maybe introduce Lex Luthor somewhere in the film. They then should end the movie with Superman maybe being close to defeat or defeated and continue the story in the 3rd part with perhaps Lex Luthor as the main and final villain before JL the movie?

I don't know how or what way but i really believe Brainiac would be the best villain to use that could match Superman and not be OTT. They could always introduce some of the JL members in part 3 that give Superman a hand to defeat whatever Villain it may be? and then go into the JL movie with perhaps Darkseid as the main villain. There are a few other characters that they could easily include as side villains like Metallo or even Bizarro if needed be.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by hopefuldreamer

It baffles me too.

And something like World's Finest would be SO MUCH more sensible to start off with, and even that i'd rather leave until after MOS2 and one rebooted Batman movie at least.

And I think a World's Finest movie leads so easily into a JL movie.

And can you imagine the hype for a JL movie, AFTER a World's Finest movie had been successful and got everyone gaging for more?

Why on earth do they not see that there are other options than just pointing at The Avengers and going 'I want one of those', without even considering how potentially destructive that knee jerk reaction could be to their reputation and their already existing superhero franchises.



:

Indeed; hell, a meeting between Superman and Batman alone on the big screen is perhaps bigger than the Avengers having gotten together for the first time.

Originally Posted by Dr Magneto Doom

I think if they are planning to make a trilogy then Man Of Steel II should have Brainiac as the villain and maybe introduce Lex Luthor somewhere in the film. They then should end the movie with Superman maybe being close to defeat or defeated and continue the story in the 3rd part with perhaps Lex Luthor as the main and final villain before JL the movie?

I don't know how or what way but i really believe Brainiac would be the best villain to use that could match Superman and not be OTT. They could always introduce some of the JL members in part 3 that give Superman a hand to defeat whatever Villain it may be? and then go into the JL movie with perhaps Darkseid as the main villain. There are a few other characters that they could easily include as side villains like Metallo or even Bizarro if needed be.

The thing is though, and this is something that I've wondered as well, should a main character's arc..one who's journey started in a solo film, be concluded within their own solo films..or within the ensemble film? I'm curious to see on how Marvel will do this as well.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Indeed; hell, a meeting between Superman and Batman alone on the big screen is perhaps bigger than the Avengers having gotten together for the first time.

Yup. Their names are argueably bigger and more recognisable than any of the heroes in Avengers. Stick them together, and it is a powerful draw

Originally Posted by herolee10

The thing is though, and this is something that I've wondered as well, should a main character's arc..one who's journey started in a solo film, be concluded within their own solo films..or within the ensemble film? I'm curious to see on how Marvel will do this as well.

Well that's why i'd prefer to see it MOS1, MOS2, World's Finest/Justice League, MOS3.

In a similar way to how Tony Stark's arc has progressed through the Iron Man films and Avengers.

Of course, that's assuming they use Cavill for JL

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by hopefuldreamer

Yup. Their names are argueably bigger and more recognisable than any of the heroes in Avengers. Stick them together, and it is a powerful draw



Well that's why i'd prefer to see it MOS1, MOS2, World's Finest/Justice League, MOS3.

In a similar way to how Tony Stark's arc has progressed through the Iron Man films and Avengers.

Of course, that's assuming they use Cavill for JL

True; course you know, IF (and this is a bigger IF than something like Kristin Stewart being nominated for an Academy award and Oscar for best female actress) the JLA film was success..they would undoubtedly want sequels to it as well..so if we had MOS 1 and 2 and even a JLA and WF film before MOS 3, what do we do about Superman's character in the sequels for JL? Do we then conclude his story there or what? This makes my head hurt.lol

If they're not using Cavil as Superman, then that would be a good thing for us since that would mean that they'd continue with MOS, unless Warner Bros. completely drops the MOS franchise in favor of focusing on JL, during which time, they'd risk having a bigger riot than the one that took place in Gotham City.

[Smallville13]

Originally Posted by herolee10

If anything, this is what I would describe our association with Superman films:

1. STM: First Love/High School Sweetheart; the one that you never really forget about.

2. SII: After your first breakup with your first sweetheart, you guys get back together, only for something stupid to break you guys apart in the end again.

3. SIII & SIV: The One Night Stands that we'd like to forget.

4. SR: The Rebound; basically, the person that we thought could have been the one, but turns out, we were projecting memories of our first love onto them that blinded us from seeing for what they were really worth.

5. MOS: Potentially, THE LOVE of our life that we had been waiting for all of this time.

6. JLA: The Evil ex of the true love of your life that comes in and ruins it all for you.

Dead on.

I'll add:

7. MOS2: Another chance at true love, only it turns out the evil ex (JLA) has ****ed her too and ruined her for you.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by herolee10

True; course you know, IF (and this is a bigger IF than something like Kristin Stewart being nominated for an Academy award and Oscar for best female actress) the JLA film was success..they would undoubtedly want sequels to it as well..so if we had MOS 1 and 2 and even a JLA and WF film before MOS 3, what do we do about Superman's character in the sequels for JL? Do we then conclude his story there or what? This makes my head hurt.lol

If they're not using Cavil as Superman, then that would be a good thing for us since that would mean that they'd continue with MOS, unless Warner Bros. completely drops the MOS franchise in favor of focusing on JL, during which time, they'd risk having a bigger riot than the one that took place in Gotham City.

Damn right!

As for what to do for JL sequels, well it's again going to be the same problem as Iron Man's arc. Cause from the trailer it seems like IM3 is almost a conclusion to his arc, but of course he is going to be in IM3. I guess the only logical assumption is that his character will simply take a step back, and other characters 'arcs' will be more of a focus.

There is certainly more story to tell for Bruce Banner, and all the heroes that don't really have their own films to worry about. Focus on them in terms of actual character dilemmas, and just have Iron Man involved in a side character capacity.

Which i'd also be fine with for a JL sequel. If we get 3 awesome Superman movies, and a JL movies with Superman's arc still fairly central, i'd be happy to leave JL2's arc focus on someone like MM, GL, WW or Flash.