Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

[hafizbat]

I feel a bit dumb for asking, but what did the EMP gun even do lol? It looked like he shot at the biker and missed? What is the purpose of the EMP gun? And didn't he have the same device in his belt when he killed the lights in the sewer fight with Bane? Lol sorry for the confusion, it seemed like a cool gadget so could someone explain to me what the EMP gun was for

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by hafizbat

I feel a bit dumb for asking, but what did the EMP gun even do lol? It looked like he shot at the biker and missed? What is the purpose of the EMP gun? And didn't he have the same device in his belt when he killed the lights in the sewer fight with Bane? Lol sorry for the confusion, it seemed like a cool gadget so could someone explain to me what the EMP gun was for

I think it was supposed to shut down the power for the motorcycles.

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

it turned off the Bike, which is why the cops were able to catch him

right?

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog

it turned off the Bike, which is why the cops were able to catch him

right?

Yup. That's what an EMP does - turn off things.

[AnneFan]

Originally Posted by Anita18

Yup. That's what an EMP does - turn off things.

There's this goggle wearing thief who does the exact opposite of this.

[herolee10]

I just watched the animated feature "The Dark Knight Returns: Part 2", and granted, while there were several things that I had issues with regarding that film, there were a few things in there where I wish we could have seen something like that portrayed in "The Dark Knight Rises".

Namely, the part where Batman rides off to go and gather his "army" in order to secure Gotham and stop its crazed citizens from overrunning it with riots.

I wish we could have gotten a scene like that with Bale's Batman and GPD in "TDKR", that would have definitely provided the much needed "ice-breaker" (no pun intended) regarding the animosity the cops are likely to have towards Batman given the events of "TDK"; I mean we all saw on how many cops were willing to turn over Batman to the Joker, let alone on how most, if not all (but Gordon and Blake) believed that Batman was responsible for killing Dent.

And of course, it would have been nice to see Bale's batman choreographed in a way that mirrored on how they had this animated Batman fighting in terms of people actually shooting at him and Batman actually dodging the gunfire or throwing batarangs at them to fend them off.

And hell, I would have loved seeing a much more BRUTAL manhunt for Batman where shots are actually being fired at him and batman actually taking injury from it as well.



But overall, I'm glad that "The Dark Knight Rises" actually ended on a note where Gotham and Bruce had a chance to start a new life afresh in a peaceful manner; whereas every version of Gotham that I've seen in any medium seems to be proverbially cursed to be "Hell on Earth", where, no matter how many years Batman puts into the job, nothing seems to be changing for the better overall.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by herolee10

I just watched the animated feature "The Dark Knight Returns: Part 2", and granted, while there were several things that I had issues with regarding that film, there were a few things in there where I wish we could have seen something like that portrayed in "The Dark Knight Rises".

Namely, the part where Batman rides off to go and gather his "army" in order to secure Gotham and stop its crazed citizens from overrunning it with riots.

I wish we could have gotten a scene like that with Bale's Batman and GPD in "TDKR", that would have definitely provided the much needed "ice-breaker" (no pun intended) regarding the animosity the cops are likely to have towards Batman given the events of "TDK"; I mean we all saw on how many cops were willing to turn over Batman to the Joker, let alone on how most, if not all (but Gordon and Blake) believed that Batman was responsible for killing Dent.

And of course, it would have been nice to see Bale's batman choreographed in a way that mirrored on how they had this animated Batman fighting in terms of people actually shooting at him and Batman actually dodging the gunfire or throwing batarangs at them to fend them off.

And hell, I would have loved seeing a much more BRUTAL manhunt for Batman where shots are actually being fired at him and batman actually taking injury from it as well.



But overall, I'm glad that "The Dark Knight Rises" actually ended on a note where Gotham and Bruce had a chance to start a new life afresh in a peaceful manner; whereas every version of Gotham that I've seen in any medium seems to be proverbially cursed to be "Hell on Earth", where, no matter how many years Batman puts into the job, nothing seems to be changing for the better overall.

We may have not gotten batarangs, but underground with Catwoman; Batman dodged one of the mercenaries gunfire and then tackled him.

[The Caped Knight]

Today's is Bale's Birthday. (Jan 30th)

Happy 39'th Birthday Mr. Wayne !!!

[kvz5]

Many happy returns!

[JDonaldD]

Originally Posted by herolee10

I just watched the animated feature "The Dark Knight Returns: Part 2", and granted, while there were several things that I had issues with regarding that film, there were a few things in there where I wish we could have seen something like that portrayed in "The Dark Knight Rises".

Namely, the part where Batman rides off to go and gather his "army" in order to secure Gotham and stop its crazed citizens from overrunning it with riots.

I wish we could have gotten a scene like that with Bale's Batman and GPD in "TDKR", that would have definitely provided the much needed "ice-breaker" (no pun intended) regarding the animosity the cops are likely to have towards Batman given the events of "TDK"; I mean we all saw on how many cops were willing to turn over Batman to the Joker, let alone on how most, if not all (but Gordon and Blake) believed that Batman was responsible for killing Dent.

And of course, it would have been nice to see Bale's batman choreographed in a way that mirrored on how they had this animated Batman fighting in terms of people actually shooting at him and Batman actually dodging the gunfire or throwing batarangs at them to fend them off.

And hell, I would have loved seeing a much more BRUTAL manhunt for Batman where shots are actually being fired at him and batman actually taking injury from it as well.



But overall, I'm glad that "The Dark Knight Rises" actually ended on a note where Gotham and Bruce had a chance to start a new life afresh in a peaceful manner; whereas every version of Gotham that I've seen in any medium seems to be proverbially cursed to be "Hell on Earth", where, no matter how many years Batman puts into the job, nothing seems to be changing for the better overall.

Agreed. There really needed to be scene before the war other than Batman showing up to take out the tank that clears the air between Batman and the cops. We have to assume Foley saw Bane's speech on TV where the truth comes out but it's not really dealt with on screen. Batman and Foley really needed to have a scene together to make Foley's arc complete. It's Gordon that inspires him out of apathy not Bats. Not sure if Bale (in the Bat voice) rallying the cops would translate to film very well, though.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by kvz5

Many happy returns!

Happy Belated Birthday Bale!

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by hafizbat

I feel a bit dumb for asking, but what did the EMP gun even do lol? It looked like he shot at the biker and missed? What is the purpose of the EMP gun? And didn't he have the same device in his belt when he killed the lights in the sewer fight with Bane? Lol sorry for the confusion, it seemed like a cool gadget so could someone explain to me what the EMP gun was for

He was using it to knock out the lights in the parking garage as he drove under them. It kept him hidden, gave him the advantage of darkness. Also provides a badass element of terror and theatricality. One of the more impressive 'Batman' moments from Nolan, in my opinion. Shame it was so brief and unexplained.

He fires it at one of the motorcycles, but an EMP wouldn't shut down a motorcycle (they certainly didn't look like electric bikes), so I'm guessing he was aiming for that little tablet he picks up later to shut off the process that he wound up being too late to stop.

This is assuming he knew about the tablet before he picks it up from the thug later, of course.

Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense to fire it. It just makes a bunch of ineffectual sparks.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

I just watched the animated feature "The Dark Knight Returns: Part 2", and granted, while there were several things that I had issues with regarding that film, there were a few things in there where I wish we could have seen something like that portrayed in "The Dark Knight Rises".

Namely, the part where Batman rides off to go and gather his "army" in order to secure Gotham and stop its crazed citizens from overrunning it with riots.

I wish we could have gotten a scene like that with Bale's Batman and GPD in "TDKR", that would have definitely provided the much needed "ice-breaker" (no pun intended) regarding the animosity the cops are likely to have towards Batman given the events of "TDK"; I mean we all saw on how many cops were willing to turn over Batman to the Joker, let alone on how most, if not all (but Gordon and Blake) believed that Batman was responsible for killing Dent.

And of course, it would have been nice to see Bale's batman choreographed in a way that mirrored on how they had this animated Batman fighting in terms of people actually shooting at him and Batman actually dodging the gunfire or throwing batarangs at them to fend them off.

And hell, I would have loved seeing a much more BRUTAL manhunt for Batman where shots are actually being fired at him and batman actually taking injury from it as well.



But overall, I'm glad that "The Dark Knight Rises" actually ended on a note where Gotham and Bruce had a chance to start a new life afresh in a peaceful manner; whereas every version of Gotham that I've seen in any medium seems to be proverbially cursed to be "Hell on Earth", where, no matter how many years Batman puts into the job, nothing seems to be changing for the better overall.

^ Every bit of this.

Excellent post, man.

Yet another chunk of goodness that would've, along with other material that I feel shouldn't have been left out, made this into a brilliant two-parter.

[MasterOgami]

Originally Posted by RustyCage

He fires it at one of the motorcycles, but an EMP wouldn't shut down a motorcycle (they certainly didn't look like electric bikes), so I'm guessing he was aiming for that little tablet he picks up later to shut off the process that he wound up being too late to stop.

This is assuming he knew about the tablet before he picks it up from the thug later, of course.

Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense to fire it. It just makes a bunch of ineffectual sparks.

He was using it to stop the bikes. An EMP burst would (potentially) disable the electronic components of the bike that help make it run.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/art...wer-next-month

[BlueLightning]

Originally Posted by MasterOgami

He was using it to stop the bikes. An EMP burst would (potentially) disable the electronic components of the bike that help make it run.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/art...wer-next-month

So cool! Thanks for sharing.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by MasterOgami

He was using it to stop the bikes. An EMP burst would (potentially) disable the electronic components of the bike that help make it run.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/art...wer-next-month

Dig the article, and it's obvious what EMPs do, but the movie doesn't sell the concept.

Computers being the heart of cars (much less motorcycles) rather than just functioning as less major assistance is a relatively new thing by my understanding and hasn't completely phased in, so it seems like a niche tactic. It would only be effective on newer cars, so that's a pretty big gamble - especially if you have to stop mid-chase to fire it.

After studying the scene, every car he passes appears to still be driving just fine despite the lights going out briefly, so that makes one think the gun has a pretty soft effect on vehicles, or that the engines of the vehicles aren't susceptible to it (including, obviously, the motorcycle which he fires directly at). The primary focus seemed to be cutting the lights (which were definitely electronic).

Either way, if shutting down the engines was the goal, it clearly didn't work. Maybe we're meant to assume that Batman guessed his average looking motorcycle might be more cutting edge than it really was.

Which is fine, but the fact that it's so vaguely presented creates a pause in many viewers. One of many 'huh?' moments where the suspension of disbelief is broken by logic gaps or lack of explanation.

Ultimately, the fact that it had zero effect on any engine in the entire scene makes me want to say he was more likely going after the tablet making the transfer.

(And don't get me wrong, I love the concept, and it's probably the coolest 'this is the awesome mysterious Batman you know and love' scene in the whole film - a theme Nolan has lapses in holding consistent. So kudos for what was done well.)

[MasterOgami]

Originally Posted by RustyCage

Dig the article, and it's obvious what EMPs do, but the movie doesn't sell the concept.

Computers being the heart of cars (much less motorcycles) rather than just functioning as less major assistance is a relatively new thing by my understanding and hasn't completely phased in, so it seems like a niche tactic. It would only be effective on newer cars, so that's a pretty big gamble - especially if you have to stop mid-chase to fire it.

After studying the scene, every car he passes appears to still be driving just fine despite the lights going out briefly, so that makes one think the gun has a pretty soft effect on vehicles, or that the engines of the vehicles aren't susceptible to it (including, obviously, the motorcycle which he fires directly at). The primary focus seemed to be cutting the lights (which were definitely electronic).

Either way, if shutting down the engines was the goal, it clearly didn't work. Maybe we're meant to assume that Batman guessed his average looking motorcycle might be more cutting edge than it really was.

Which is fine, but the fact that it's so vaguely presented creates a pause in many viewers. One of many 'huh?' moments where the suspension of disbelief is broken by logic gaps or lack of explanation.

Ultimately, the fact that it had zero effect on any engine in the entire scene makes me want to say he was more likely going after the tablet making the transfer.

The EMP rifle is designed to disable electrical systems, so it actually would work on a car/bike/whathaveyou as long as it wasn't a pre-1970s model, in which case the rifle wouldn't have any electronics to knock out (as I understand it anyway). If the EMP disables the engine control unit, I imagine the engine's going to stop.

Take another look at the scene, its not simply that the headlights are turning off, but the engines are cutting out as well and the cars are slowing down. You can hear them restarting as the bat-pod moves ahead and the area is no longer under the effect of the EMP.

One motorcycle is caught in the EMP emanating from pod/rifle/whatever device Batman's using and the hostage manages to hop off and escape. Batman takes that driver down and then lifts the rifle to manually fire a pulse more or less -directly- at another bike that's out of range of the "general blackout" method he had been using. That bike is disabled as well, as the next time we see it its on the ground and the driver is attempting to flee on foot.

In short, Batman was using an EMP to disable lights/vehicles and was successful on both counts.

[Tequilla]

I might not remembering the scene right...but dont we see a lot of cars stopped in the emp tunnel scene ? There's a scene of a guy even trying to escape by running away from his bike and some cops grab him. Before we see exactly the motorcycle guy unable to keep escaping with the hostage. He even stops , and the guy escapes. Then after it , Batman fails shooting the other one. So i saw the emp clearly interfering with the engines (which i suppose would be the result) of the bikes. Even the sound of the scene is clear , with motor engines trying to start again.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by MasterOgami

Take another look at the scene, its not simply that the headlights are turning off, but the engines are cutting out as well and the cars are slowing down. You can hear them restarting as the bat-pod moves ahead and the area is no longer under the effect of the EMP.

I rewatched it several times before making my comment. The cars don't appear to be slowing down to me. If they are, it's extremely closely cut so that it's hard to tell that they were effected beyond the lights, so again, poor communication on the director's part if that was the goal.

I don't recall hearing them restarting, but I'll take a closer listen. Hadn't considered the audio angle, so good call.

Did notice that there are some stopped cars later on, but we could just as easily chalk that up to them trying to stay out of the way of the chase, as drivers tend to do in real life when an emergency vehicle speeds by.

Supporting that idea is the fact that Batman has stopped using the EMP pulse at the point we see them stopped/stopping and hasn't even approached them yet, AND we see many of the cars' brake lights on. So it would seem they stop themselves.

One motorcycle is caught in the EMP emanating from pod/rifle/whatever device Batman's using and the hostage manages to hop off and escape.

The rifle is glowing in the dark during the scene, so it looks like there's a mode where he just creates a field and doesn't need to fire it.

To me it looks more like the guy stops on his own to try and shoot Batman, but gets tackled.

Batman takes that driver down and then lifts the rifle to manually fire a pulse more or less -directly- at another bike that's out of range of the "general blackout" method he had been using. That bike is disabled as well, as the next time we see it its on the ground and the driver is attempting to flee on foot.

It isn't clear that that's necessarily what stopped the bike, again. It just looks like the cops got hold of him. I mean, we can stretch and guess that's what caused it, but it cuts away and then cuts back afterward to the cops having caught up to him.

The sore thumb is that he drove off for a considerable and indeterminable (as it cuts away) distance seeming utterly unscathed after being directly blasted, while the other bike stopped immediately - assuming it wasn't intentionally, to take aim and fire at Batman. So there's an inconsistency and an uncertainty pervading the effectiveness of the gun to stop engines throughout the whole scene.

I feel like it's possible Nolan was going for what you're saying, but he established it very weakly. So weakly that many people were left kind of confused.

Could've used a few seconds of talking to Fox to straighten it out. Or at least they could have better demonstrated cars actually being stopped by it.

[MasterOgami]

Originally Posted by RustyCage

I feel like it's possible Nolan was going for what you're saying, but he established it very weakly. So weakly that many people were left kind of confused.

Could've used a few seconds of talking to Fox to straighten it out. Or at least they could have better demonstrated cars actually being stopped by it.

I have to admit I thought it was pretty clear and straightforward: lights go out, cars slow, engines cut out/rev back to life, Batman fires at bike, bike's on the ground. This is the first I've of heard many people being confused by what was transpiring in the scene.

I suppose to uncover the true nature of what was occurring in the sequence we could go to the script. I'm only citing it to clarify Nolan's intention for the scene. Whether or not the finished product, which is of course different, is as clear as the script is up for debate I guess I'll agree that it would've been nice to see some cars roll to a stop, but I don't think it was necessary (and probably would've thrown off the scene's timing).

EXT. HIGHWAY - CONTINUOUS
Food Guy drives the rear bike. He looks back - sees
streetlights explode behind him - darkness catching him up.
The engine chokes and dies. The Trader jumps off, shouting
for the cops. Food Guy turns, pulling his gun. SMASH! - Food
Guy is thrown backwards off his bike by a dark wing as
BATMAN races by on the Bat-Pod.

EXT. STOCK EXCHANGE - CONTINUOUS
Foley rushes to Blake’s cruiser.

FOLEY
Let’s roll, they’ve spotted the
Batman!

EXT. HIGHWAY INTERSECTION - CONTINUOUS
The remaining bikes split up as they reach a high overpass.

EXT. HIGH OVERPASS - CONTINUOUS
Batman pulls up, overlooking the intersection - pulls a
rifle-shaped device. A tone builds - he aims it at the bike
and fires.

EXT. HIGHWAY OFF-RAMP - CONTINUOUS
Janitor’s bike sparks and dies. Sirens as Cops move in,
Another bike splutters and dies - the Hostage breaks for
cover.

EXT. HIGH OVERPASS - CONTINUOUS
Batman sees the last two bikes disappear beneath an
overpass. He holsters his EMP rifle and guns the Bat-Pod.

[Tequilla]

I just got home and rewatched the scene

Its crystal clear what the emp does to the bikes and the cars , etc. I dont understand the confusion.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by MasterOgami

I suppose to uncover the true nature of what was occurring in the sequence we could go to the script.

Good call, again. Where did you find it??

I'll agree that it would've been nice to see some cars roll to a stop, but I don't think it was necessary (and probably would've thrown off the scene's timing).

I think the scene needed a bit more padding, personally. Even just a handful of seconds.

There are a ton of elements of the film that needed more time though. This is one of the less important ones, but I figured it was worth analyzing for the sake of understanding.

EXT. HIGHWAY - CONTINUOUS
Food Guy drives the rear bike. He looks back -

Waaaiiit wait wait wait wait wait wait.

FOOD GUY?

sees
streetlights explode behind him - darkness catching him up.
The engine chokes and dies. The Trader jumps off, shouting
for the cops. Food Guy turns, pulling his gun. SMASH! - Food
Guy is thrown backwards off his bike by a dark wing as
BATMAN races by on the Bat-Pod.

Well, there we go. Issue resolved. Needed a bit more visual communication, but you can't argue with the script.

EXT. HIGHWAY OFF-RAMP - CONTINUOUS
Janitor’s bike sparks and dies. Sirens as Cops move in,
Another bike splutters and dies - the Hostage breaks for
cover.

Janitor. lol

This is the bike the rifle was fired at. It didn't spark and die as the script says.

It drove off for a considerable amount of distance, and then the camera cuts to Batman's rifle being shot by the cop for a few seconds.

Next time we see him, the cops have apparently stopped him.

I don't remember seeing a second bike spark and die during this bit, either. Must have been cut.

[BlueLightning]

Originally Posted by RustyCage

Waaaiiit wait wait wait wait wait wait.

FOOD GUY?

It was the food delivery guy nickname in the script.

[Tequilla]

What food delivery guy ?

Was there one in the stock scene ?

[BlueLightning]

Yep.