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Old 01-14-2013, 04:31 AM   #851
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

Skrulls could be done so easily on a tv budget. I think that monster make up has become a lost art on tv nowadays.

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Old 01-14-2013, 04:50 AM   #852
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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But, they specifically said that they don't want to use Skrulls at all because of the ridiculous amount of confusion caused by shapeshifting aliens running amok. Plus they'd be too costly for a TV show FX budget.


The "LMD took the hit" option strikes me as the best way to handle Coulson's survival. They dropped the LMD reference into The Avengers, so why not use it to neatly explain things and tie it all together? Comics fans know about them and the GA can easily be clued in with just a few lines. "Coulson had a what?" "An LMD: Life Model Decoy. It's basically an android copy of him that duplicates everything from his appearance on down to fingerprints and retinal patterns. Coulson activated his when the Helicarrier was attacked." "So that's what Loki killed...." Easy to understand and a nice nod to the comics.
LMD is definitely the easiest choice to reintroduce Coulson. Everyone saw Coulson enter the armory but not him leaving it. For all we know, he was possibly controlling the LMD from there the entire time.

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Old 01-14-2013, 06:07 AM   #853
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

It's certainly the easiest. However, it completely undermines the emotional payoff of his death scene in Avengers. We, the audience, felt sad when Loki killed Coulson because we cared about Coulson. To turn around and say "oh by the way, that was actually a robot" removes the emotional weight of the movie's entire climax. Plus, it makes the heroes look like chumps for being fooled and Coulson a dick for keeping his survival a secret from the others; especially since they cared about him.


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Old 01-14-2013, 10:34 AM   #854
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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But, they specifically said that they don't want to use Skrulls at all because of the ridiculous amount of confusion caused by shapeshifting aliens running amok. Plus they'd be too costly for a TV show FX budget.
That's what the shapeshifting bastards want you to think!

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It's certainly the easiest. However, it completely undermines the emotional payoff of his death scene in Avengers.
That's ok by me. I didn't find that scene the least bit emotional. Frankly, I thought it was fairly stupid and unoriginal and a bad decision in an otherwise awesome movie. It wasn't like people hadn't already guessed it a year in advance or anything. "Oh hey look. He killed Coulson. Big surprise."

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Old 01-14-2013, 01:01 PM   #855
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That's ok by me. I didn't find that scene the least bit emotional. Frankly, I thought it was fairly stupid and unoriginal and a bad decision in an otherwise awesome movie. It wasn't like people hadn't already guessed it a year in advance or anything. "Oh hey look. He killed Coulson. Big surprise."
Unoriginal? Perhaps.

But his death was needed for plot progression. They needed to up the stakes for the third act; and the only ways to do so are to increase the scale of the threat or to make it personal. And considering they had made it clear that the fate of the world was on the line pretty early on, that meant only the latter was a real option.

Also, think about it... without Coulson's death, there wouldn't have been a catalyst as a wake up call to get everyone's acts together, there wouldn't have been a punctuation/emphasis to Loki's planned attack on the Helicarrier, and we wouldn't have gotten Tony Stark's verbal smackdown of Loki at Stark Towers (the punchline being "His name is Phil.").

As such, Coulson's death serves a crucial part in the pacing of The Avengers.


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Old 01-14-2013, 01:42 PM   #856
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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But, they specifically said that they don't want to use Skrulls at all because of the ridiculous amount of confusion caused by shapeshifting aliens running amok. Plus they'd be too costly for a TV show FX budget.
Shapeshifting is probably the least expensive special effect, right next to invisibility or telepathy. All you do is have one actor, and then swap him out with another actor. I can do that on my Mac computer for 0 dollars and it would look pretty good.

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Skrulls could be done so easily on a tv budget. I think that monster make up has become a lost art on tv nowadays.
Hell, to save money you could have them be shapeshifted most of the time. I'd be okay with that.

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Old 01-14-2013, 02:07 PM   #857
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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It's certainly the easiest. However, it completely undermines the emotional payoff of his death scene in Avengers. We, the audience, felt sad when Loki killed Coulson because we cared about Coulson. To turn around and say "oh by the way, that was actually a robot" removes the emotional weight of the movie's entire climax. Plus, it makes the heroes look like chumps for being fooled and Coulson a dick for keeping his survival a secret from the others; especially since they cared about him.
Having it be a robot decoy sounds incredibly cheap and stupid to this non comic reader. Like something out of Austin Powers. No, if he survives I hope it isnt by his own doing. Coulson seemed like the type who would sacrifice himself and face down a larger than life enemy to help his friends and crew. Not someone who would take time to grab a decoy and send it on its way to possibly malfunction or mess up. And are these LMD suppossed to be like cylons which bleed? Cause Coulson was definitely bleeding. Also, if it was a Lie Model Decoy why wouldn't it tell Fury when it was dying? Logically it would. It wouldn't act like it was the real Coulson because it would serve no purpose for it to keep up the act at that point. So this would come off like a really bad attempt at a retcon. It i already a retcon, but I hope Whedon can pull it off better than that.

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Old 01-14-2013, 02:40 PM   #858
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

I'm gonna go with alien tech that revives him from death. But with side effects...I got nothing on side effects off hand, but i'm sure the writers could come up with interesting ones that give the character a slight edge emotionally.

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Old 01-15-2013, 05:41 PM   #859
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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Having it be a robot decoy sounds incredibly cheap and stupid to this non comic reader. Like something out of Austin Powers. No, if he survives I hope it isnt by his own doing. Coulson seemed like the type who would sacrifice himself and face down a larger than life enemy to help his friends and crew. Not someone who would take time to grab a decoy and send it on its way to possibly malfunction or mess up. And are these LMD suppossed to be like cylons which bleed? Cause Coulson was definitely bleeding. Also, if it was a Lie Model Decoy why wouldn't it tell Fury when it was dying? Logically it would. It wouldn't act like it was the real Coulson because it would serve no purpose for it to keep up the act at that point. So this would come off like a really bad attempt at a retcon. It i already a retcon, but I hope Whedon can pull it off better than that.
Yeah, LMDs would be like the BSG revamp's Cylons. They're supposed to be identical in every way to humans, only synthetic.

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Old 01-15-2013, 05:55 PM   #860
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

Oh, we're still on this subject?...

Some news would be nice. Liven this place up a bit.

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Old 01-15-2013, 06:01 PM   #861
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

I was just answering the question, bro. Don't hate.

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Old 01-15-2013, 06:03 PM   #862
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

I'll hate everything until I get set pics.


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Old 01-15-2013, 06:09 PM   #863
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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Unoriginal? Perhaps.

But his death was needed for plot progression. They needed to up the stakes for the third act; and the only ways to do so are to increase the scale of the threat or to make it personal. And considering they had made it clear that the fate of the world was on the line pretty early on, that meant only the latter was a real option.

Also, think about it... without Coulson's death, there wouldn't have been a catalyst as a wake up call to get everyone's acts together, there wouldn't have been a punctuation/emphasis to Loki's planned attack on the Helicarrier, and we wouldn't have gotten Tony Stark's verbal smackdown of Loki at Stark Towers (the punchline being "His name is Phil.").

As such, Coulson's death serves a crucial part in the pacing of The Avengers.
I didnt think any of that. I thought it was stupid that they needed the death of a guy to make them realize they need to team up to stop Loki from destroying the world. Really you need motivation when the world is about to he destroyed. Which I guess it wouldn't have mattered since the aliens couldn't kill a civilian if their lives depended on it.

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Old 01-15-2013, 06:11 PM   #864
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

I'm curious to see if they're redesigning the SHIELD uniforms at all. Or if they're even using the uniforms; I could see them sticking to business attire like Coulson if they want to save some scratch on costuming.

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Old 01-15-2013, 06:13 PM   #865
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

I hope they use the uniforms. I'd get bored with just suits and ties.

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Old 01-15-2013, 06:18 PM   #866
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

Yeah, me too. I could see them relegating the uniforms to background characters in SHIELD's HQ so the field agents could blend in a bit better, though.

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Old 01-15-2013, 06:32 PM   #867
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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Yeah, me too. I could see them relegating the uniforms to background characters in SHIELD's HQ so the field agents could blend in a bit better, though.

There were variations on the SHIELD uniform worn by agents on the Helicarrier that they could use. Some of the female agents wore outfits that included long skirts and boots; the men had looser jumpsuits and tactical gear. Ideally, I would like to see them all wear different outfits based on what they happen to be doing at any given time. Business suits, casual clothes, tactical gear and the blue/black jumpsuits could all be used in different circumstances.

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Old 01-15-2013, 06:36 PM   #868
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

I'd love to see them develop a more SHIELD-ish tactical outfit than the standard black SWAT-looking getups; maybe give them white tactical gear to echo the comics' old blue-and-white color scheme.

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Old 01-15-2013, 07:00 PM   #869
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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I'm curious to see if they're redesigning the SHIELD uniforms at all. Or if they're even using the uniforms; I could see them sticking to business attire like Coulson if they want to save some scratch on costuming.
Movie SHIELD seems to mix jumpsuits with business suits with no real rhyme or reason.

I'd imagine that the jumpsuits are for the agents who engage in the more military side of SHIELD's duties, and the suits are for the people who engage in spying and detective work, so it might depend on what the show's focus is.

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Old 01-15-2013, 07:24 PM   #870
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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I didnt think any of that. I thought it was stupid that they needed the death of a guy to make them realize they need to team up to stop Loki from destroying the world. Really you need motivation when the world is about to he destroyed. Which I guess it wouldn't have mattered since the aliens couldn't kill a civilian if their lives depended on it.
Bear in mind that all of them had their own agenda and idea of how to solve the problem. Plus, aside from Captain America, all the other heroes were used to working alone (and none fully trusted the others). So, of course they were going to have difficulty working with one another. Even SHIELD's assessment anticipated it. Hence why the Avengers Initiative was scrapped in the first place.


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Movie SHIELD seems to mix jumpsuits with business suits with no real rhyme or reason.

I'd imagine that the jumpsuits are for the agents who engage in the more military side of SHIELD's duties, and the suits are for the people who engage in spying and detective work, so it might depend on what the show's focus is.
Way I see it, the jumpsuits are pretty much like Red Shirts.

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Old 01-15-2013, 08:28 PM   #871
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

Why did you link to TVtropes just now? That was weird.

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Old 01-15-2013, 08:33 PM   #872
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Yeah, Red shirt's gotta be the most widely known trope of all time. I doubt anyone here would be confused...

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Old 01-16-2013, 04:29 AM   #873
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

Just in case.

Red Shirt is only highly recognisable to a small reference pool. Ask Joe Boggs on the street and he'd probably not know what you're talking about. So, I simply elected not to assume that everyone instantly knows what I'm talking about. Anyway, why am I being criticised for being accommodating to people?? :S


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Old 01-16-2013, 04:51 AM   #874
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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I'd love to see them develop a more SHIELD-ish tactical outfit than the standard black SWAT-looking getups; maybe give them white tactical gear to echo the comics' old blue-and-white color scheme.
I was always partial to this suit, though it was never used in the films:


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Old 01-16-2013, 11:19 AM   #875
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Default Re: Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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Just in case.

Red Shirt is only highly recognisable to a small reference pool. Ask Joe Boggs on the street and he'd probably not know what you're talking about. So, I simply elected not to assume that everyone instantly knows what I'm talking about. Anyway, why am I being criticised for being accommodating to people?? :S
You have to be careful about linking to TVTropes. People get lost in there. And some are never heard from again...

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