Sigyn Goddess of Fidelity and Wife of Loki

[ladyloki]

Hey

I thought it would be intersting to dicusses this character because I feel , she is underused in the comics and has the potential to be a great character. For those of you who are not familar with Sigyn here is a couple of bios sadly there is not a whole lot to go on , but to sum it up . She is was tricked into marrying to Loki, however she is loyal to him and stays by his side.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/sigynthor.htm
http://marvel.com/universe/Sigyn

So the question I have are

who is she as a person
why is she so loyal to Loki
do you think she should be in the comics more


talk away guys

[Godzilla2000]

I think the biggest thing here that I've noticed just doing cursory Google searches is that Sigyn from the Norse myths and Sigyn as presented in the Thor comics seem to be different takes on the same mythological figure. But I think the one thing that is shared is the fact that in spite of Loki abandoning her she still stays blindly loyal to him. I guess in the real world sense she's like that wife you know who stands by her man even when he's treating her pretty atrociously, breaking every marital promise he's ever made to her, like cheating on her and never being there for her when she needs him. You know, I feel kind of bad for a character like Sigyn because despite all the things she does for Loki she's not appreciated most of the time by him half as much as he should, but on the other hand she still chose her fate and still chooses not to do anything about it. Of course in the comics it is insinuated Sigyn is quite deceased, but you never know with Asgardians. She could very well be still around, but in a more astral manifestation.

[ladyloki]

I agree .. the one thing that throws me off is that there is that one time where loki pleads with thor to save her I can see that moment of disperation in Loki. .... In the comics she does die, while everyone else is brought back to life.

Loki goes to her when he needs her to do something for him, and it would seem like she is naive in that she doesnt really know whats going on ... not realizing that is all part of Loki schemes.

I can see with her that dispite how Loki treats her, and how he leaves her that he would not want to see her harmed in some way .. maybe not of love but some sort of obligation because she is the only one who do stand by him... I think he does not know how to express affection to her but he keeps her in the dark about his plans...

its like she is the trophey wife and his one source of " kindness" he may not show it but I dont think he would not want to be without her ... I would love to see her make a comeback in the comics as a not so much a evil wife type she still be good natured ... but someone who is stronger and walks that fine line between loyalty to loki and asgard in general ..that would be interesting .

[elizah72]

I have been rather disappointed in how she is portrayed in the comics from what I've found on her. I believe she was handled extremely poorly by the writers, as much as by Loki himself. Like it was a bunch of men writing her who didnt know what to do with her, and so just made her a "stepford wife". The more i find about the mythological figure, the more I think she really has a lot of potential in the MCU as a character, if handled correctly, and not portrayed as an unloved abused wife who blindly stands by her man, but as a woman who is caring, and does what she does out of love and compassion, not just because she is married and now she has to do what her husband says and put up with abuse and abandonment. That is just such a ridiculous premise to use for this character when you take into account the whole ordeal in the cave in the myths. There is no way she could have stayed with him, and try desperately to spare him, if she didnt love him. And then consider what led up to that, to keep it together throughout that, Sigyn is well... an AMAZING woman and character. This is NOT a weak woman.

The differences in personality between comic book Loki and MCU Loki as set up in Thor, I think would allow for a much more believable love story between the two than was done in the comics. There is so much missing about myth Sigyn, that it's hard to know exactly how things were between them in that context, and I feel like the comics depictions of her are probably very far off from what was initially intended by the myths.

Anyway, I wanted to share this article on Sigyn, I am not of this faith, but I found it to be a really wonderful insight to this "goddess" and a lot of what she says here is how I'd like to see Sigyn portrayed if we ever do happen to get her in MCU.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/pantheo...e-month-sigyn/

The name "incantation-fetter" is a particularly interesting name to be given, considering who she is married to, no? (as noted near the bottom)

also the wiki page on Sigyn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigyn

and there is some good stuff on this website as well, but I freakin' LOVE the image on the right there...
http://www.northernpaganism.org/shri...s-madness.html

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

I have been rather disappointed in how she is portrayed in the comics from what I've found on her. I believe she was handled extremely poorly by the writers . . . Like it was a bunch of men writing her who didnt know what to do with her.. . the more I think she . . .really has a lot of potential in the MCU as a character, if handled correctly, . . . And then consider that led up to that, to keep it together throughout that, is well... an AMAZING woman and character. This is NOT a weak woman.

Maddeningly, the part of the post I've quoted can be (and has been) made about *any number of* female comic book characters.

But I believe things are changing. Thor1, actually, was praised as being a leader in this regard (see, for example, http://www.socialjusticeleague.net/2...ist-movie-yes/) And I've read bits and pieces about efforts Marvel seems to be making behind the scenes that make me hopeful that the change will extend beyond one movie.

Originally Posted by elizah72

The differences in personality between comic book Loki and MCU Loki as set up in Thor, I think would allow for a much more believable love story between the two than was done in the comics. There is so much missing about myth Sigyn, that it's hard to know exactly how things were between them in that context, and I feel like the comics depictions of her are probably very far off from what was initially intended by the myths.

That could be very interesting! Add depth to them both.

It's not such a bad thing that we know very little about Sigyn from myth. That means there's less in the way of expectations to constrain a writer.

Originally Posted by elizah72

I freakin' LOVE the image on the right there...

Yeah, I like it too!

[elizah72]

That is good to hear. Interesting that she praises the "heterosexual female gaze" there and yet to me that was definitely the most annoying part of Jane and Darcy in Thor. They were acting like horny silly schoolgirls, when at least one of them should have been much more mature than that! I pretty much immediately lost respect for the character and lost interest in it as a love story due to that stuff. (the dishes in the cupboard instead of the sink, the almost driving off the road due to Thor's hotness...). Not that' he's not hot, I just dont like her behavior there. It's the one thing I dread if they do have more Jane-Thor in Thor 2, that there's going to be more of that silly horny girl behavior.

And no mention of Frigga in that article there is interestingly. One thing that the article I mentioned, is that society tends to devalue those whose choose to stay home and raise a family. They are ignored or devalued as a person and a woman, oftentimes. But being a strong root or base to one's family is INCREDIBLY important to society as a whole, and that is very difficult to do when both parents are mostly concerned with their careers. Children are the future and they need a stable environment to be raised in order to best fit and function in society. People who forgo a "career" to provide a solid base to raise their family are as valuable or more to society as someone who decides to become a workaholic scientist or Asgaridan warrior -whether that person is male or female. But feminism it seems to some means that women who do this should be looked down upon or ignored, like Frigga and Sigyn. (although Frigga may have gotten more notice from the poster if some of the deleted scenes had stayed in)

and... [begin rant/] I think I just should not read any more Sigyn/Loki stuff from the comics when I see them scanned. It annoys the bejezus out of me what a bad job they did with her. Basically, he kills the man she loves, because she's pretty and he wants her, then he makes himself look like the guy so he can trick Odin into marrying them. Then when all is revealed she could get out of the marriage but instead she stays with Loki, not because she loves him but because they are married. ??? Then later, she is trying to make a go of it, and becomes really annoyingly doting and clingy to Loki, and he cheats and he's verbally abusive, probably physically too although I haven't seen for sure. He BEGS ODIN to release him from some shackles after he's been punished by being shackled to his annoying overly doting wife as a punishment. Somehow, she just puts up with all of this and acts like she loves him, when there is clearly nothing to love about comic book Loki! (unless you are a masochist). SO RIDICULOUS!!! UGH!!! Anyway, she's somehow in love with him, dont ask me how the hell that happened, and she does all this stuff for him, to save him and to bring him back. And he does make a few little gestures in a few places like he cares for her, maybe loves her, protective of her, but not nearly enough to have it make any sense whatsoever, that any self respecting woman would ever love him and stay with him. None at all! It is just such an insulting portrayal of a loving loyal wife as a really annoying doormat. [/end rant]

In the myth, I believe there are indications about him cheating, which isnt good, but people can have infidelity in their marriage and still love each other. It's just an extremely difficult situation to be mixed up in. Never figured marriage to the god of mischief would be easy anyway! lol... I've not found anything about him being abusive to her in any way, however and the thing about him murdering then impersonating her betrothed is a Marvel invention.

So, going forward, before Marvel even considers using Sigyn in the MCU or again in comics, they need to really seriously rethink how to handle her and that relationship, and making this character and her love story believable and with dignity. Again reading that article I linked might give them a good start. (and maybe send me an email to consult... LOL)

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

That is good to hear. Interesting that she praises the "heterosexual female gaze" there and yet to me that was definitely the most annoying part of Jane and Darcy in Thor. They were acting like horny silly schoolgirls, when at least one of them should have been much more mature than that! I pretty much immediately lost respect for the character and lost interest in it as a love story due to that stuff. (the dishes in the cupboard instead of the sink, the almost driving off the road due to Thor's hotness...). Not that' he's not hot, I just dont like her behavior there. It's the one thing I dread if they do have more Jane-Thor in Thor 2, that there's going to be more of that silly horny girl behavior.

Yeah, that was embarrassing. I have the impression Portman put that stuff in to humanize the character. Now, a lot of times, female characters get put through a damned if you do/damned if you don't filter. So if Portman hadn't done that, maybe everyone would have been grumbling about how cold the characterization of Jane was.

There have been indications regarding the progression/evolution of the characters and relationship, so I suspect there will be less of the total flibadagibit stuff in Thor2. (at least I hope!)

Originally Posted by elizah72

And no mention of Frigga in that article there is interestingly. ... (although Frigga may have gotten more notice from the poster if some of the deleted scenes had stayed in)

One of the commenters mentioned her.

And really, what was important was not any one of the female characters. It's that there were *four* of them in the movie, all treated better than in a lot of other movies (I do wish Frigga's scenes had not been cut).

Originally Posted by elizah72

But feminism it seems to some means that women who do this should be looked down upon or ignored, like Frigga and Sigyn. (although Frigga may have gotten more notice from the poster if some of the deleted scenes had stayed in)

Well, the idea is for women to have the opportunities where they can contribute to the best of their abilities, without being penned in by the weight of society's expectations. In the past, there was more expectation (at least for upper class women) for staying home, so the advocacy was to open up alternatives to that. But for some women, where they most want to be is at home, and we should support those who want to do that. The same for men who want to spend time at home with their families.

Now here's something very interesting. This came up on one of the other Thor message boards I follow (because, really, it's such slow traffic here on the Hype ). Apparently, Thor is not running Asgard right now in the books. It's currently called Asgardia, and it is run by the All-Mothers. Idunn, Gaea, and Freyja. Let me say that again: the All-Mothers.

I'm not able to post the panel showing the All-Mothers directly into this message. But here's the link to the post that talks about it, with the image: http://www.comicvine.com/thor/29-226...ard/92-711899/

Now, the one (Idunn, I think) on the left has the typical stupid armor that so many other female characters have had (and heels too!). But look at the one in the center! (Gaea) Holding a baby and a weapon! (I guess she's in heels too) So one of the leaders has motherhood as a central part of her identity. And she looks quite confident she can handle whatever challenge you might be thinking of bringing. (Though she would have to hand off the baby to use the bow.) Certainly this is a very different treatment of someone who is parenting.

It's both novel and ancient, because of course a trio of women representing Maiden/Mother/Crone figures in many mythologies (by process of elimination, the one on the right, Freyja, should be representing Crone, and she looks *marvelous* as a crone!).

Now I have no idea whether the stories about them are well-written, nor how they came to be in charge of Asgard(ia). But this image fascinates me. The All-Mothers are running Asgard. And it's one of the little bits of evidence I see from time to time that make me hopeful that things are changing.

Originally Posted by elizah72

[begin rant/] I think I just should not read any more Sigyn/Loki stuff from the comics when I see them scanned. It annoys the bejezus out of me what a bad job they did with her. . . . SO RIDICULOUS!!! UGH!!! Anyway, she's somehow in love with him, dont ask me how the hell that happened, and she does all this stuff for him, to save him and to bring him back. And he does make a few little gestures in a few places like he cares for her, maybe loves her, protective of her, but not nearly enough to have it make any sense whatsoever, that any self respecting woman would ever love him and stay with him. None at all! It is just such an insulting portrayal of a loving loyal wife as a really annoying doormat. [/end rant]

Yeah!! Damn you, Marvel!

(I sincerely share your outrage. I *do* hope they're getting better!)

Originally Posted by elizah72

In the myth, I believe there are indications about him cheating, which isnt good, but people can have infidelity in their marriage and still love each other. It's just an extremely difficult situation to be mixed up in. Never figured marriage to the god of mischief would be easy anyway! lol... I've not found anything about him being abusive to her in any way, however and the thing about him murdering then impersonating her betrothed is a Marvel invention.

Well, in the Viking Age, expectations of fidelity were different for men and women. And people did not marry for love (that was a concept that emerged (Edit: for the West) in the 17th century (Edit: moreso in the 18th)). Men, as the scholars phrase it, had "access to other women". I'm not immediately familiar with particular stories about Loki (other than the one about him birthing Sleipnir ), but what you've described doesn't sound out of step with these different expectations. Tor of myth also had women on the side.

I have the impression that Loki disliked his wife. She deserved better.

Originally Posted by elizah72

So, going forward, before Marvel even considers using Sigyn in the MCU or again in comics, they need to really seriously rethink how to handle her and that relationship, and making this character and her love story believable and with dignity. Again reading that article I linked might give them a good start. (and maybe send me an email to consult... LOL)

Sigyn and many other female characters need to be treated with greater dignity.

And. . . .who knows? Maybe someone from Marvel lurks here. . .

Good discussion!

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

being a strong root or base to one's family is INCREDIBLY important to society as a whole, ...

and... [begin rant/] ...when all is revealed she could get out of the marriage but instead she stays with Loki, not because she loves him but because they are married. ??? Then later, she is trying to make a go of it, and becomes really annoyingly doting and clingy to Loki, and he cheats and he's verbally abusive, probably physically too although I haven't seen for sure. ... Somehow, she just puts up with all of this and acts like she loves him, when there is clearly nothing to love about comic book Loki! (unless you are a masochist). SO RIDICULOUS!!! UGH!!! Anyway, she's somehow in love with him, dont ask me how the hell that happened, and she does all this stuff for him, to save him and to bring him back. ... It is just such an insulting portrayal of a loving loyal wife as a really annoying doormat. [/end rant]

So, going forward, before Marvel even considers using Sigyn in the MCU or again in comics, they need to really seriously rethink how to handle her and that relationship, and making this character and her love story believable and with dignity.

I thought about this some more and have an idea of how to reframe it.

I mentioned that in the Viking Age, people did not view love as a foundation for marriage. Marriages were arranged by elders (and contracts drawn up) to form alliances between families. Sigyn would up with Loki due to subterfuge on Loki's part, but an alliance between her family and the House of Odin could nevertheless be incredibly important, depending on how much they write Asgardian culture to be like Viking culture. Viking women had the right of divorce, but perhaps there would be political implications if an alliance were dissolved (for example, family members may feel fewer prohibitions about moving against members of the other family after dissolution). So perhaps Sigyn sees it as her duty to do her utmost to make the marriage work as well as possible for the sake of her clan, knowing full well the psychological trauma she is likely to endure from an unloving husband.

A conventional framework is for a protagonist to enter into physical battle, possibly against stronger opposition, knowing that there likely will be great physical cost, perhaps even death, for the sake of others. (On re-reading this, I realized this is the denouement of Thor1.) This is a common structure in our culture, both in books and movies, and we say, "He is brave; he is a hero." (and it is almost always a male protagonist) In the framework I propose for Sigyn, she is enduring great psychological cost to herself for the sake of her extended family.

I suppose that might be one reason why women's struggles, such as in raising a family, have not been celebrated in the same way historically. They often are not physical or culminating in a 20-minute showdown, but rather a day-to-day grind requiring mental toughness to get up each morning and try again.

So Sigyn could be seen as brave, especially since her sacrifice is unsung. (No one will tell stories of this day.)

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by American Maid

I suppose that might be one reason why women's struggles, such as in raising a family, have not been celebrated in the same way historically. They often are not physical or culminating in a 20-minute showdown, but rather a day-to-day grind requiring mental toughness to get up each morning and try again.

So Sigyn could be seen as brave, especially since her sacrifice is unsung. (No one will tell stories of this day.)

Yes, exactly. And some of the greatest heros in our society are those who never expect or require the glory and accolades but do what they do because it is what is right and what must be done.

Originally Posted by American Maid

Yeah, that was embarrassing. I have the impression Portman put that stuff in to humanize the character. Now, a lot of times, female characters get put through a damned if you do/damned if you don't filter. So if Portman hadn't done that, maybe everyone would have been grumbling about how cold the characterization of Jane was.

Oh, I dont know, I would have been happier if Darcy gave him some looks and comments and Jane said, "Darcy, I've hit this guy with our vehicle *twice* he may have head injury. He may be a mental patient for all we know. He may be someone's husband and father. Try using a bit more sensitivity to another human being who is in trouble right now and probably has family worried sick about him. He is not a piece of meat. Okay?" I would have LOVED Jane at that moment. Quite frankly. She would have seemed much more worthy of the man who would be worthy of Mjolnir.

I mean, it's one thing to oogle a good looking actor who is clearly fully in charge of all of his faculties, from far far away, it's another to oogle someone right in front of you who you believe to either have suffered a serious head injury or may be a mental patient. BIG difference! Tsk... tsk... That just turned me off that part of the story big time.

There have been indications regarding the progression/evolution of the characters and relationship, so I suspect there will be less of the total flibadagibit stuff in Thor2. (at least I hope!)

I would hope!

One of the commenters mentioned her.

I missed that but I was thinking more of the article itself.

Apparently, Thor is not running Asgard right now in the books. It's currently called Asgardia, and it is run by the All-Mothers. Idunn, Gaea, and Freyja. Let me say that again: the All-Mothers.

I'm not able to post the panel showing the All-Mothers directly into this message. But here's the link to the post that talks about it, with the image: http://www.comicvine.com/thor/29-226...ard/92-711899/

Now, the one (Idunn, I think) on the left has the typical stupid armor that so many other female characters have had (and heels too!). But look at the one in the center! (Gaea) Holding a baby and a weapon! (I guess she's in heels too) So one of the leaders has motherhood as a central part of her identity. And she looks quite confident she can handle whatever challenge you might be thinking of bringing. (Though she would have to hand off the baby to use the bow.) Certainly this is a very different treatment of someone who is parenting.

It's both novel and ancient, because of course a trio of women representing Maiden/Mother/Crone figures in many mythologies (by process of elimination, the one on the right, Freyja, should be representing Crone, and she looks *marvelous* as a crone!).

Now I have no idea whether the stories about them are well-written, nor how they came to be in charge of Asgard(ia). But this image fascinates me. The All-Mothers are running Asgard. And it's one of the little bits of evidence I see from time to time that make me hopeful that things are changing.

Ah, yes I checked elsewhere and Gaea is the mother, and Freya is the queen not the crone. Although technically I think Freya is the goddess of fertility, she is referred to somewhere as being Sigyn's mother, (with a dwarf as her father) but I have no idea if that is based on original lore or something more recently made up. There's a lot of conflicting information out there about all of these Norse myths, it seems like lots of fan fiction writers added to it over the centuries. lol. Remember I said that I found one story where Angrboda (Old Norse "the one who brings grief" or "she-who-offers-sorrow") is not Loki's wife prior to Sigyn, but is instead a nasty giantess who the gods kill and burn with fire, and when Loki eats her roasted heart the three monsters/children spring from him after that. That seems much more like it may fit into the Norse myth. But again who knows at this point.

Idunn's outfit, ugh.... being a *ahem* well endowed female, I can say with utmost certainty that unless that bra goes on with superglue it ain't stayin' on in a fight (but perhaps that's the appeal to some. lol)

Well, in the Viking Age, expectations of fidelity were different for men and women. And people did not marry for love (that was a concept that emerged (Edit: for the West) in the 17th century (Edit: moreso in the 18th)). Men, as the scholars phrase it, had "access to other women". I'm not immediately familiar with particular stories about Loki (other than the one about him birthing Sleipnir ), but what you've described doesn't sound out of step with these different expectations. Tor of myth also had women on the side.

Yes, I almost mentioned that. The effort in the films and the comics should be to moderize the stories however to keep them relevant to today.

I have the impression that Loki disliked his wife. She deserved better.

Like i said, seems like there have been some "fan fiction" writers over the centuries and there is unfortunately not enough of the original lore about her and her original relationship with her husband to determine that. I would think Loki of any incarnation would be much happier married to the "Victory bringer" Sigyn than "She-who-offers-sorrow" Angrboda in any case! lol One could certainly see how either comic book or MCU Loki would want a woman like that by his side, and to keep her by his side. But they missed the opportunity to show that in the comics, lets hope they dont make the same mistake in MCU (or future comics incarnations of her)

Sigyn and many other female characters need to be treated with greater dignity.

And. . . .who knows? Maybe someone from Marvel lurks here. . .

Absolutely. And maybe that's why I'm bothering to write my thoughts of aggravation about this subject down here, in the hopes they may have people keeping an eye on boards like this to see what the public's opinions on things are. You never know who may be reading!

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

I mean, it's one thing to oogle a good looking actor who is clearly fully in charge of all of his faculties, from far far away, it's another to oogle someone right in front of you who you believe to either have suffered a serious head injury or may be a mental patient. BIG difference! Tsk... tsk... That just turned me off that part of the story big time.

This is a fair critique of Jane's character, although it's fairer to place it earlier in the film. When they first come upon him, Erik tells Jane that they really have to get him to a hospital. Jane is focused on the research and dismisses that idea, saying, "He's fine! Look at him!"

At the point of the shirtless scene, the humans have seen that he was in the up-in-the-air image of the Einstein-Rosen Bridge image. It's clear that he is not what he appears to be. And I think Darcy is alluding to that by saying, "for a crazy homeless guy". I think she doesn't know what he is, but he's not a crazy homeless guy.

The column writer was a bit ambivalent about the scene too, saying that we could debate whether it's good to objectify anyone, but what was refreshing was that it was done from a different perspective than usual.

Originally Posted by elizah72

Oh, I dont know, I would have been happier if Darcy gave him some looks and comments and Jane said, "Darcy, I've hit this guy with our vehicle *twice* he may have head injury. He may be a mental patient for all we know. He may be someone's husband and father. Try using a bit more sensitivity to another human being who is in trouble right now and probably has family worried sick about him. He is not a piece of meat. Okay?" I would have LOVED Jane at that moment. Quite frankly. She would have seemed much more worthy of the man who would be worthy of Mjolnir.

The entirety of that speech I think would have come off preachy. But perhaps she could have said, exasperatedly, "Darcy!" (or maybe, "Down, Darcy.") instead of just quickly glancing away.

Originally Posted by elizah72

Hi, yes I checked elsewhere and Gaea is the mother, and Freya is the queen not the crone.

What I was referring to was that in many myth systems there appears a trio of women representing the three phases of womanhood: Maiden, Mother, and Crone. When the writer implemented this idea, he (Fraction?) may have been nodding to this recurring theme. When I was trying to find a picture of them to post, I came across another reference that referred to Idunn in this story being the Maiden and Gaea being the Mother. To fit these three All-Mothers into that framework, Freyja would have to be the Crone, although she is not drawn like the Crone figure usually is.

But maybe the writer wanted to start with that, but then put a twist on it.

Originally Posted by elizah72

Although technically I think Freya is the goddess of fertility, she is referred to somewhere as being Sigyn's mother, (with a dwarf as her father) but I have no idea if that is based on original lore or something more recently made up. There's a lot of conflicting information out there about all of these Norse myths,

Well, Freyja is the queen of the Vanir, from Vanaheim. I get the impression that way back when, there were competing pantheons, the Aesir in Asgard and the Vanir, and that somewhere along the line the stories got merged together (actually, researching a little on the side, I find the myths tell that the two groups fought a war and unified thereafter).

Originally Posted by elizah72

it seems like lots of fan fiction writers added to it over the centuries. lol. . . .

Like i said, seems like there have been some "fan fiction" writers over the centuries and there is unfortunately not enough of the original lore about her and her original relationship with her husband to determine that.

Another complicating factor is that the Vikings didn't really record their culture. What we have was recorded after Christianization of Scandinavia. Scholars think that sometime the authors would mischaracterize the actual Viking beliefs to portray them in a bad light and thus promote Christianity.

Originally Posted by elizah72

I would think Loki of any incarnation would be much happier married to the "Victory bringer" Sigyn than "She-who-offers-sorrow" Angrboda in any case! lol One could certainly see how either comic book or MCU Loki would want a woman like that by his side, and to keep her by her side. But they missed the opportunity to show that in the comics, lets hope they dont make the same mistake in MCU (or future comics incarnations of her)

I agree with you completely on that.

Originally Posted by elizah72

Idunn's outfit, ugh.... being a *ahem* well endowed female, I can say with utmost certainty that unless that bra goes on with superglue it ain't stayin' on in a fight (but perhaps that's the appeal to some. lol)

Yeah, when I saw that, I thought, "You know, if I looked in the mirror and saw that, I wouldn't think, 'I'm ready to go fight for Asgard!' I would think, 'I need to go out and buy a new bra!'" lol

But maybe, as you allude, it is just fan service

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by American Maid

The entirety of that speech I think would have come off preachy. But perhaps she could have said, exasperatedly, "Darcy!" (or maybe, "Down, Darcy.") instead of just quickly glancing away.

Fair enough. LOL it's just my knee jerk reaction to that to want someone to step up and say, "What the hell? Are you really going to treat this guy like a piece of meat right now?! REALLY??!? GEEZUS!"

But maybe the writer wanted to start with that, but then put a twist on it.

as a "fan service" yes probably

Another complicating factor is that the Vikings didn't really record their culture. What we have was recorded after Christianization of Scandinavia. Scholars think that sometime the authors would mischaracterise the actual Viking beliefs to portray them in a bad light and thus promote Christianity.

Exactly, my understanding is that commonly happened to the old ways as Christianity took hold. So characters like Loki may very well have been villainized much much more than was initially intended, and made into more of a satanic figure. And his loyal wife by extension would have had most of her story conveniently disappear due to the fact that it would have humanized and made him much more sympathetic to people.

[elizah72]

I may be an old softie but was just listening to this song and it makes me think of how I see Sigyn (if sung by a woman) and her feelings towards Loki, and reflecting her vast inner strength and unyielding compassion, dignity and grace, if they ever did do her and her story justice...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGLS...eature=related

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

I may be an old softie but was just listening to this song and it makes me think of how I see Sigyn (if sung by a woman) and her feelings towards Loki, and reflecting her vast inner strength and unyielding compassion, dignity and grace, if they ever did do her and her story justice...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGLS...eature=related

That's sweet!

[elizah72]

On the not so sweet side of things...



They MUST find a way to make this scene happen in MCU, they simply MUST on so many levels....

[Nimloth]

I LOVE Sigyn!!
In case anyone didn't see this beautiful art
http://gavorche-san.deviantart.com/g...set=0#/d516qwl
follow to the next.
I really adore this story, very nice.
Of course at the end she will fall in love with him, the great part it is not yet finished))

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by Nimloth

I LOVE Sigyn!!
In case anyone didn't see this beautiful art
http://gavorche-san.deviantart.com/g...set=0#/d516qwl
follow to the next.
I really adore this story, very nice.
Of course at the end she will fall in love with him, the great part it is not yet finished))

yes I've seen that stuff. very nice work.

I found this the other day, which makes me feel a little bit better about the rant above. LOL



"My Sigyn, the love of my immortal life."

Awwwww.... Comics Loki, you old softie. Not that it makes up for everything, you cad.

They SO need to work her into the MCU, she would be a big achilles heel for MCU Loki I think, and I dont think that iconic scene of Loki being tortured in the cave with the snake venom would carry anywhere near as much weight without someone who cares about him in there, trying to spare him as she does.

[elizah72]

Okay, so Sigyn-Loki fans, that Mighty Thor Annual #19, pretty conclusively answers the question does Loki love Sigyn? - in several places, include a quotes from the God Pluto himself.

Loki gets pretty freaked out when he sees The Flame after Sigyn. As Pluto sets his plan for revenge in place he says... "Let Loki scream as he feels her pain, across the great chasm!" Pluto is getting revenge because he believes Loki didn't keep up his part of their bargain. Loki is trapped in Mephisto's realm and can't do anything to stop The Flame from attacking Sigyn. Pluto sent him after her to get revenge on Loki and knows killing Sigyn will do it because he knows Loki cares about her enough for her violent death to at least hurt him emotionally, but one thing he does not predict is that Loki will go to some pretty great lengths, including working with Thor, and freeing Thor from otherwise certain death, to save her.

and in the end Pluto says...

"So you have beaten me after all, Loki.... when I sent Hrinmeer to slay your wife, I merely gave Thor a most potent Ally. I am guilty of imagining only that Sigyn loved you -- and not that you, in your own way, might love her equally as much!"



Also a bit of info there about Sigyn, said by Thor (while Loki is inhabiting him as well)... "Who but a coward would slay an unarmed female who ne'er in her life did bear a sword?"

I will say though Sigyn's outfit in this is pretty atrocious. (Fan service, anyone? Definitely can't see her dressed like that in the MCU)

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Okay, so Sigyn-Loki fans, that Mighty Thor Annual #19, pretty conclusively answers the question does Loki love Sigyn? - in several places, include a quotes from the God Pluto himself.

and in the end Pluto says...

"So you have beaten me after all, Loki.... when I sent Hrinmeer to slay your wife, I merely gave Thor a most potent Ally. I am guilty of imagining only that Sigyn loved you -- and not that you, in your own way, might love her equally as much!"

Awww! I'm glad! That warms my heart!

[Godzilla2000]

I really am not a fan of Sigyn at all. According to my research she killed Donald, albeit accidentally, and hid it by creating a clone of him to fool everybody into thinking he was still alive. Yeah, I've heard nobody liked Donald Blake but still it's pretty low of her to not fess up to what she did. She's like Bella Swan from Twilight before there were the awful Twilight books. I wonder if Loki ever stalked her and broke into her room to watch her sleeping at night like all good stalkers do.

[elizah72]

well, that's nice.

I like her, she definitely could have been written better in the comics, and she could have been dressed better for sure. But after actually getting a hold of some of the comics with her in it. I can see she, and her relationship with Loki, is more layered, and more complicated than I first thought. Some not nice things in there, for sure, in the very early stuff, but in the later comics the love developed both ways and became surprisingly tender and genuine at times, actually. And she is much stronger and more powerful with sorcery than I first thought. (to be able to make an almost exact duplicate of a person, and to even attempt to break one of Odin's spells, not to mention binding Loki's spirit to a totally kick ass suit of armor) So, no, I dont believe she is a victim or a wimp, neither is she a villain. That is clear. It is a complex relationship for sure though, and one I'd love to see explored in the MCU.

She did actually "fess up" to that. I know because I own the comic where that happened. She fessed up in defense of her husband, and in a great speech actually and that was both showing her bravery at at the same time was clearly very remorseful. Loki comes out of the armour to her defense and to hold her, comfort her, when he sees how upset she is, and that Thor is angry.

Even Thor understands it was an accident, and out of love for Loki, and Thor even mentioned putting some blame on Odin for that. "Nor can I find it in my heart to hate Sigyn - even though she destroyed Blake. Or was it Lord Odin who did so when he played his dangerous game with the life and form of a mortal? Or was it I, who ne'er in all those years asked myself the questions which might have led me to that cave in time to save that life? We all must live with the guilt we share for Donald Blake's tragic end." Mighty Thor #483

this speech, given by the hero of the piece, is indicative of how the author wants us to feel about that situation. The same as when Steve says to Tony about Nick Fury having the same blood on his hands Loki does, that is how the author of the piece wants you to see it, because those words are coming from the hero, who is generally, the most truthful person there.

[ciscostudent561]

Goddess of infidelity? sounds pretty hot actually

[balanda]

I've never been able to muster up much interest in Sigyn, even in the hands of poetic Lokeans. Mostly, I guess because unconditional loyalty and fidelity creep me the hell out, and Loki has never seemed like the loyal type in any incarnation. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth about traditional notions of heterosexuality. I did find the Runemarks novels' version of Sigyn kind of amusing: she is creepily stalkily loyal, and Loki can't escape her. As for Marvel comic and movie Lokis; where they are now I can't imagine a marriage story being especially relevant or interesting or non-depressing or realistic unless it was f**ked up in some way beyond Sigyn being loyal being Sigyn. And the fic for it is terribly self-inserty. idk, it'd be a challenge for me personally to find the pair interesting, but I'm not unwilling to give it a go.