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#1 |
Side-Kick
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Hey
I thought it would be intersting to dicusses this character because I feel , she is underused in the comics and has the potential to be a great character. For those of you who are not familar with Sigyn here is a couple of bios sadly there is not a whole lot to go on , but to sum it up . She is was tricked into marrying to Loki, however she is loyal to him and stays by his side. http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/sigynthor.htm http://marvel.com/universe/Sigyn So the question I have are who is she as a person why is she so loyal to Loki do you think she should be in the comics more talk away guys ![]() ![]()
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Loki :You were made to be ruled ....in the end it will be every man for himself. Loki: How desprate are you ? ... and you call on such lost creatures to defend you . Nick Fury : You have made me very desperate BAD ASS !!! |
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#2 |
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I think the biggest thing here that I've noticed just doing cursory Google searches is that Sigyn from the Norse myths and Sigyn as presented in the Thor comics seem to be different takes on the same mythological figure. But I think the one thing that is shared is the fact that in spite of Loki abandoning her she still stays blindly loyal to him. I guess in the real world sense she's like that wife you know who stands by her man even when he's treating her pretty atrociously, breaking every marital promise he's ever made to her, like cheating on her and never being there for her when she needs him. You know, I feel kind of bad for a character like Sigyn because despite all the things she does for Loki she's not appreciated most of the time by him half as much as he should, but on the other hand she still chose her fate and still chooses not to do anything about it. Of course in the comics it is insinuated Sigyn is quite deceased, but you never know with Asgardians. She could very well be still around, but in a more astral manifestation.
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“Ultimately, we have a cultural problem where we put a huge currency on sexualizing young girls,” she says. “It’s been a problem for a while, but I feel like it’s reached a fever pitch.” - Rashida Jones on Internet Pornography - If you want to be with me you need to calm down, chill out, slow down and enjoy the ambiance of where you are. There is peace in silent solitude and staying in one place. Otherwise we have no future at all. - I'm not in love at all. Last edited by Godzilla2000; 12-05-2011 at 05:43 AM. |
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#3 |
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I agree .. the one thing that throws me off is that there is that one time where loki pleads with thor to save her I can see that moment of disperation in Loki. .... In the comics she does die, while everyone else is brought back to life.
Loki goes to her when he needs her to do something for him, and it would seem like she is naive in that she doesnt really know whats going on ... not realizing that is all part of Loki schemes. I can see with her that dispite how Loki treats her, and how he leaves her that he would not want to see her harmed in some way .. maybe not of love but some sort of obligation because she is the only one who do stand by him... I think he does not know how to express affection to her but he keeps her in the dark about his plans... its like she is the trophey wife and his one source of " kindness" he may not show it but I dont think he would not want to be without her ... I would love to see her make a comeback in the comics as a not so much a evil wife type she still be good natured ... but someone who is stronger and walks that fine line between loyalty to loki and asgard in general ..that would be interesting .
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Loki :You were made to be ruled ....in the end it will be every man for himself. Loki: How desprate are you ? ... and you call on such lost creatures to defend you . Nick Fury : You have made me very desperate BAD ASS !!! |
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#4 |
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I have been rather disappointed in how she is portrayed in the comics from what I've found on her. I believe she was handled extremely poorly by the writers, as much as by Loki himself. Like it was a bunch of men writing her who didnt know what to do with her, and so just made her a "stepford wife". The more i find about the mythological figure, the more I think she really has a lot of potential in the MCU as a character, if handled correctly, and not portrayed as an unloved abused wife who blindly stands by her man, but as a woman who is caring, and does what she does out of love and compassion, not just because she is married and now she has to do what her husband says and put up with abuse and abandonment. That is just such a ridiculous premise to use for this character when you take into account the whole ordeal in the cave in the myths. There is no way she could have stayed with him, and try desperately to spare him, if she didnt love him. And then consider what led up to that, to keep it together throughout that, Sigyn is well... an AMAZING woman and character. This is NOT a weak woman.
The differences in personality between comic book Loki and MCU Loki as set up in Thor, I think would allow for a much more believable love story between the two than was done in the comics. There is so much missing about myth Sigyn, that it's hard to know exactly how things were between them in that context, and I feel like the comics depictions of her are probably very far off from what was initially intended by the myths. Anyway, I wanted to share this article on Sigyn, I am not of this faith, but I found it to be a really wonderful insight to this "goddess" and a lot of what she says here is how I'd like to see Sigyn portrayed if we ever do happen to get her in MCU. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/pantheo...e-month-sigyn/ The name "incantation-fetter" is a particularly interesting name to be given, considering who she is married to, no? (as noted near the bottom) also the wiki page on Sigyn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigyn and there is some good stuff on this website as well, but I freakin' LOVE the image on the right there... http://www.northernpaganism.org/shri...s-madness.html Last edited by elizah72; 11-06-2012 at 05:09 AM. |
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#5 | ||
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But I believe things are changing. Thor1, actually, was praised as being a leader in this regard (see, for example, http://www.socialjusticeleague.net/2...ist-movie-yes/) And I've read bits and pieces about efforts Marvel seems to be making behind the scenes that make me hopeful that the change will extend beyond one movie. Quote:
It's not such a bad thing that we know very little about Sigyn from myth. That means there's less in the way of expectations to constrain a writer. Yeah, I like it too! |
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#6 |
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That is good to hear. Interesting that she praises the "heterosexual female gaze" there and yet to me that was definitely the most annoying part of Jane and Darcy in Thor. They were acting like horny silly schoolgirls, when at least one of them should have been much more mature than that!
![]() ![]() And no mention of Frigga in that article there is interestingly. One thing that the article I mentioned, is that society tends to devalue those whose choose to stay home and raise a family. They are ignored or devalued as a person and a woman, oftentimes. But being a strong root or base to one's family is INCREDIBLY important to society as a whole, and that is very difficult to do when both parents are mostly concerned with their careers. Children are the future and they need a stable environment to be raised in order to best fit and function in society. People who forgo a "career" to provide a solid base to raise their family are as valuable or more to society as someone who decides to become a workaholic scientist or Asgaridan warrior -whether that person is male or female. But feminism it seems to some means that women who do this should be looked down upon or ignored, like Frigga and Sigyn. (although Frigga may have gotten more notice from the poster if some of the deleted scenes had stayed in) and... [begin rant/] I think I just should not read any more Sigyn/Loki stuff from the comics when I see them scanned. It annoys the bejezus out of me what a bad job they did with her. Basically, he kills the man she loves, because she's pretty and he wants her, then he makes himself look like the guy so he can trick Odin into marrying them. Then when all is revealed she could get out of the marriage but instead she stays with Loki, not because she loves him but because they are married. ??? Then later, she is trying to make a go of it, and becomes really annoyingly doting and clingy to Loki, and he cheats and he's verbally abusive, probably physically too although I haven't seen for sure. He BEGS ODIN to release him from some shackles after he's been punished by being shackled to his annoying overly doting wife as a punishment. Somehow, she just puts up with all of this and acts like she loves him, when there is clearly nothing to love about comic book Loki! (unless you are a masochist). SO RIDICULOUS!!! UGH!!! Anyway, she's somehow in love with him, dont ask me how the hell that happened, and she does all this stuff for him, to save him and to bring him back. And he does make a few little gestures in a few places like he cares for her, maybe loves her, protective of her, but not nearly enough to have it make any sense whatsoever, that any self respecting woman would ever love him and stay with him. None at all! It is just such an insulting portrayal of a loving loyal wife as a really annoying doormat. [/end rant] In the myth, I believe there are indications about him cheating, which isnt good, but people can have infidelity in their marriage and still love each other. It's just an extremely difficult situation to be mixed up in. Never figured marriage to the god of mischief would be easy anyway! lol... I've not found anything about him being abusive to her in any way, however and the thing about him murdering then impersonating her betrothed is a Marvel invention. So, going forward, before Marvel even considers using Sigyn in the MCU or again in comics, they need to really seriously rethink how to handle her and that relationship, and making this character and her love story believable and with dignity. Again reading that article I linked might give them a good start. (and maybe send me an email to consult... LOL) Last edited by elizah72; 11-07-2012 at 08:07 PM. |
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#7 | ||||||
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![]() There have been indications regarding the progression/evolution of the characters and relationship, so I suspect there will be less of the total flibadagibit stuff in Thor2. (at least I hope!) Quote:
And really, what was important was not any one of the female characters. It's that there were *four* of them in the movie, all treated better than in a lot of other movies (I do wish Frigga's scenes had not been cut). Quote:
Now here's something very interesting. This came up on one of the other Thor message boards I follow (because, really, it's such slow traffic here on the Hype ![]() I'm not able to post the panel showing the All-Mothers directly into this message. But here's the link to the post that talks about it, with the image: http://www.comicvine.com/thor/29-226...ard/92-711899/ Now, the one (Idunn, I think) on the left has the typical stupid armor that so many other female characters have had (and heels too!). But look at the one in the center! (Gaea) Holding a baby and a weapon! (I guess she's in heels too) So one of the leaders has motherhood as a central part of her identity. And she looks quite confident she can handle whatever challenge you might be thinking of bringing. (Though she would have to hand off the baby to use the bow.) Certainly this is a very different treatment of someone who is parenting. It's both novel and ancient, because of course a trio of women representing Maiden/Mother/Crone figures in many mythologies (by process of elimination, the one on the right, Freyja, should be representing Crone, and she looks *marvelous* as a crone!). Now I have no idea whether the stories about them are well-written, nor how they came to be in charge of Asgard(ia). But this image fascinates me. The All-Mothers are running Asgard. And it's one of the little bits of evidence I see from time to time that make me hopeful that things are changing. Quote:
![]() (I sincerely share your outrage. I *do* hope they're getting better!) Quote:
![]() I have the impression that Loki disliked his wife. She deserved better. Quote:
And. . . .who knows? Maybe someone from Marvel lurks here. . . Good discussion! Last edited by American Maid; 11-08-2012 at 07:32 AM. |
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#8 | |
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I mentioned that in the Viking Age, people did not view love as a foundation for marriage. Marriages were arranged by elders (and contracts drawn up) to form alliances between families. Sigyn would up with Loki due to subterfuge on Loki's part, but an alliance between her family and the House of Odin could nevertheless be incredibly important, depending on how much they write Asgardian culture to be like Viking culture. Viking women had the right of divorce, but perhaps there would be political implications if an alliance were dissolved (for example, family members may feel fewer prohibitions about moving against members of the other family after dissolution). So perhaps Sigyn sees it as her duty to do her utmost to make the marriage work as well as possible for the sake of her clan, knowing full well the psychological trauma she is likely to endure from an unloving husband. A conventional framework is for a protagonist to enter into physical battle, possibly against stronger opposition, knowing that there likely will be great physical cost, perhaps even death, for the sake of others. (On re-reading this, I realized this is the denouement of Thor1.) This is a common structure in our culture, both in books and movies, and we say, "He is brave; he is a hero." (and it is almost always a male protagonist) In the framework I propose for Sigyn, she is enduring great psychological cost to herself for the sake of her extended family. I suppose that might be one reason why women's struggles, such as in raising a family, have not been celebrated in the same way historically. They often are not physical or culminating in a 20-minute showdown, but rather a day-to-day grind requiring mental toughness to get up each morning and try again. So Sigyn could be seen as brave, especially since her sacrifice is unsung. (No one will tell stories of this day.) |
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#9 | ||||||||
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![]() I mean, it's one thing to oogle a good looking actor who is clearly fully in charge of all of his faculties, from far far away, it's another to oogle someone right in front of you who you believe to either have suffered a serious head injury or may be a mental patient. BIG difference! Tsk... tsk... That just turned me off that part of the story big time. Quote:
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Idunn's outfit, ugh.... being a *ahem* well endowed female, ![]() Quote:
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#10 | |||||||
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At the point of the shirtless scene, the humans have seen that he was in the up-in-the-air image of the Einstein-Rosen Bridge image. It's clear that he is not what he appears to be. And I think Darcy is alluding to that by saying, "for a crazy homeless guy". I think she doesn't know what he is, but he's not a crazy homeless guy. The column writer was a bit ambivalent about the scene too, saying that we could debate whether it's good to objectify anyone, but what was refreshing was that it was done from a different perspective than usual. Quote:
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But maybe the writer wanted to start with that, but then put a twist on it. Quote:
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But maybe, as you allude, it is just fan service ![]() |
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#11 | |||
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#12 |
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I may be an old softie but was just listening to this song and it makes me think of how I see Sigyn (if sung by a woman) and her feelings towards Loki, and reflecting her vast inner strength and unyielding compassion, dignity and grace, if they ever did do her and her story justice...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGLS...eature=related Last edited by elizah72; 11-09-2012 at 06:48 PM. |
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#13 | |
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#14 |
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On the not so sweet side of things...
![]() They MUST find a way to make this scene happen in MCU, they simply MUST on so many levels.... |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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I LOVE Sigyn!!
In case anyone didn't see this beautiful art http://gavorche-san.deviantart.com/g...set=0#/d516qwl follow to the next. I really adore this story, very nice. Of course at the end she will fall in love with him, the great part it is not yet finished)) |
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#16 | |
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I found this the other day, which makes me feel a little bit better about the rant above. LOL ![]() "My Sigyn, the love of my immortal life." ![]() Awwwww.... Comics Loki, you old softie. ![]() ![]() They SO need to work her into the MCU, she would be a big achilles heel for MCU Loki I think, and I dont think that iconic scene of Loki being tortured in the cave with the snake venom would carry anywhere near as much weight without someone who cares about him in there, trying to spare him as she does. |
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#17 |
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Okay, so Sigyn-Loki fans, that Mighty Thor Annual #19, pretty conclusively answers the question does Loki love Sigyn? - in several places, include a quotes from the God Pluto himself.
Loki gets pretty freaked out when he sees The Flame after Sigyn. As Pluto sets his plan for revenge in place he says... "Let Loki scream as he feels her pain, across the great chasm!" Pluto is getting revenge because he believes Loki didn't keep up his part of their bargain. Loki is trapped in Mephisto's realm and can't do anything to stop The Flame from attacking Sigyn. Pluto sent him after her to get revenge on Loki and knows killing Sigyn will do it because he knows Loki cares about her enough for her violent death to at least hurt him emotionally, but one thing he does not predict is that Loki will go to some pretty great lengths, including working with Thor, and freeing Thor from otherwise certain death, to save her. and in the end Pluto says... "So you have beaten me after all, Loki.... when I sent Hrinmeer to slay your wife, I merely gave Thor a most potent Ally. I am guilty of imagining only that Sigyn loved you -- and not that you, in your own way, might love her equally as much!" ![]() Also a bit of info there about Sigyn, said by Thor (while Loki is inhabiting him as well)... "Who but a coward would slay an unarmed female who ne'er in her life did bear a sword?" I will say though Sigyn's outfit in this is pretty atrocious. ![]() Last edited by elizah72; 01-16-2013 at 01:08 PM. |
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#18 | |
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#19 |
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I really am not a fan of Sigyn at all. According to my research she killed Donald, albeit accidentally, and hid it by creating a clone of him to fool everybody into thinking he was still alive. Yeah, I've heard nobody liked Donald Blake but still it's pretty low of her to not fess up to what she did. She's like Bella Swan from Twilight before there were the awful Twilight books. I wonder if Loki ever stalked her and broke into her room to watch her sleeping at night like all good stalkers do.
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“Ultimately, we have a cultural problem where we put a huge currency on sexualizing young girls,” she says. “It’s been a problem for a while, but I feel like it’s reached a fever pitch.” - Rashida Jones on Internet Pornography - If you want to be with me you need to calm down, chill out, slow down and enjoy the ambiance of where you are. There is peace in silent solitude and staying in one place. Otherwise we have no future at all. - I'm not in love at all. Last edited by Godzilla2000; 02-03-2013 at 10:19 PM. |
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#20 |
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well, that's nice.
![]() I like her, she definitely could have been written better in the comics, and she could have been dressed better for sure. But after actually getting a hold of some of the comics with her in it. I can see she, and her relationship with Loki, is more layered, and more complicated than I first thought. Some not nice things in there, for sure, in the very early stuff, but in the later comics the love developed both ways and became surprisingly tender and genuine at times, actually. And she is much stronger and more powerful with sorcery than I first thought. (to be able to make an almost exact duplicate of a person, and to even attempt to break one of Odin's spells, not to mention binding Loki's spirit to a totally kick ass suit of armor) So, no, I dont believe she is a victim or a wimp, neither is she a villain. That is clear. It is a complex relationship for sure though, and one I'd love to see explored in the MCU. She did actually "fess up" to that. I know because I own the comic where that happened. She fessed up in defense of her husband, and in a great speech actually and that was both showing her bravery at at the same time was clearly very remorseful. Loki comes out of the armour to her defense and to hold her, comfort her, when he sees how upset she is, and that Thor is angry. Even Thor understands it was an accident, and out of love for Loki, and Thor even mentioned putting some blame on Odin for that. "Nor can I find it in my heart to hate Sigyn - even though she destroyed Blake. Or was it Lord Odin who did so when he played his dangerous game with the life and form of a mortal? Or was it I, who ne'er in all those years asked myself the questions which might have led me to that cave in time to save that life? We all must live with the guilt we share for Donald Blake's tragic end." Mighty Thor #483 this speech, given by the hero of the piece, is indicative of how the author wants us to feel about that situation. The same as when Steve says to Tony about Nick Fury having the same blood on his hands Loki does, that is how the author of the piece wants you to see it, because those words are coming from the hero, who is generally, the most truthful person there. |
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#21 | |
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Goddess of infidelity? sounds pretty hot actually
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#22 |
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I've never been able to muster up much interest in Sigyn, even in the hands of poetic Lokeans. Mostly, I guess because unconditional loyalty and fidelity creep me the hell out, and Loki has never seemed like the loyal type in any incarnation. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth about traditional notions of heterosexuality. I did find the Runemarks novels' version of Sigyn kind of amusing: she is creepily stalkily loyal, and Loki can't escape her. As for Marvel comic and movie Lokis; where they are now I can't imagine a marriage story being especially relevant or interesting or non-depressing or realistic unless it was f**ked up in some way beyond Sigyn being loyal being Sigyn. And the fic for it is terribly self-inserty. idk, it'd be a challenge for me personally to find the pair interesting, but I'm not unwilling to give it a go.
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