Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

So what? Nobody's forcing you to read this thread. This thread is so we can speculate all we want, about whatever we want in relation to the movie. That's what this thread is here for. It's a LONG wait until the movie comes out, lots of stuff can be analyzed to see if it has any relation to the plot, and if it's nothing then fine, but it might be. And some of this IS passing the time until the movie comes. That's what this whole board is here for, I thought! If you dont care for our speculation and want to be surprised, then my advice to you is don't come into this thread in the first place!



oh, if you could see my PM box, you would most assuredly know the truth.

Unfortunately for me, AM is much smarter (and clearly nicer and much more even tempered) than I.

I think he means, that the speculation here is a bit too, well, big and obscure, and this IS a thread for EVERYONE to talk about possible ideas, and he, and others may find it hard to throw their ideas in and contribute to the discussion when all the posts here are long and mostly between two people speculating deeply into detail, regarding things that most people don't really want to think about at this point. It's difficult, that's how I see it, and it is understandable, I try to say what I can and gather what I can from you guys, but the posts are incredibly long and too detailed, so 80% of this thread is you two speculating on these things back and forth. lol This speculation is probably too deep for other people to read, nor do they probably have the time to read all of it, so people who think they may have something to add, or discuss regarding plot ideas, probably just avoid doing so here.

I'm completely neutral, so I am trying to speak without bias, that's how I see it from another's POV

[elizah72]

I understand, and not mad at all with you for saying that, however he has been rude to both of us now on several occasions with absolutely no call for it, and that is how I see it (I wont speak for AM since I am not she). If he wanted to contribute or talk about something he'd do it, not just come in here to make snide one line remarks about what we are talking about or accuse us of being plants or the same person, among other things. No call for it at all. He knows how to type, he knows how to hit reply, no reason he can't post something that actually contributes to the thread in an amiable fashion, and it's not even necessary to read our posts at all to do that, but it does not appear to me that's what he wants to do at all.

If people want to put forth an idea, and ignore our ramblings or longer posts, that's fine, but we have every right to be here and chat away with long posts or short posts about whatever Thor 2 plot related topic we want. That's what this thread is here for. Otherwise if I have to keep my more in depth posts to PM with American Maid, then I'm afraid I'm going to need more than 200 message space! (have already hit that numerous times and have had to delete, delete, delete! It's painful when I have to do that! )

To get back on topic, so we have deduced from the clapper scene numbers, that

Scene 80: The Iceland Waterfall

Scene 128: Dark Elves arrive and/or Thor vs. Dark Elves

Scene 137: Thor vs Malekith by the column

For those not reading all our other posts, this seems to put Jane back on Midgard, and Thor fighting Dark Elves and Malekith in the beginning of the last 1/3 of the film (comparing with Thor 1 and Avengers), with travelling to the Waterfall being much earlier.

Thoughts?

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

I think he means, that the speculation here is a bit too, well, big and obscure, and this IS a thread for EVERYONE to talk about possible ideas, and he, and others may find it hard to throw their ideas in and contribute to the discussion when all the posts here are long and mostly between two people speculating deeply into detail, regarding things that most people don't really want to think about at this point. It's difficult, that's how I see it, and it is understandable, I try to say what I can and gather what I can from you guys, but the posts are incredibly long and too detailed, so 80% of this thread is you two speculating on these things back and forth. lol This speculation is probably too deep for other people to read, nor do they probably have the time to read all of it, so people who think they may have something to add, or discuss regarding plot ideas, probably just avoid doing so here.

I'm completely neutral, so I am trying to speak without bias, that's how I see it from another's POV

I have heard that people who deal with comments from the public estimate that if they get a letter from one person saying something, probably 9 other people feel that way too. And "less Hugo, more Hemingway" is a rule that I have to keep reminding myself to live up to.

So I will recommit to writing shorter posts.

I think it will be harder to ensure that only germane points are made because it's hard to know how important something is ahead of time. Also, looking over one's shoulder in that way tends to make it harder to think creatively. But I will try to keep in mind the concern about losing the forest for the trees.

[elizah72]

Sorry to say, I wont be censoring myself like that for anybody. I type what I want!!! If people read it and want to chat with me about it, great, if not, their loss. *shrugs*

any more thoughts on that Jaimie quote I posted in the other thread? specifically, "You really get to see how much love she has for her fellow Asgardians because she puts her life on the line and risks a lot to save a few Asgardians."

with that quote in mind, I feel like Sif should rule Asgard. (without Thor )

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

[Jaimie Alexander, on Sif], "You really get to see how much love she has for her fellow Asgardians because she puts her life on the line and risks a lot to save a few Asgardians."

with that quote in mind, I feel like Sif should rule Asgard. (without Thor )

Now *there's* an idea!! (And she won't have divided loyalties between Asgard and Midgard, either)

The Bourne Woods sequence is a place where she's likely to be in a fierce fight. And it sounds like there are more fights besides, on sound stages. So maybe she will be even more heroic there (maybe even with some harness work!)

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Now *there's* an idea!! (And she won't have divided loyalties between Asgard and Midgard, either)

I'm telling ya, she SHOULD rule Asgard for exactly that reason. Maybe that'll be one of the many surprises they've cooked up. That would be awesome and solve Odin's dilemma of if Thor is ready or not, and if he's too tied to Midgard, .... just hand it all over to the mighty SIF!

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

I'm telling ya, she SHOULD rule Asgard for exactly that reason. Maybe that'll be one of the many surprises they've cooked up. That would be awesome and solve Odin's dilemma of if Thor is ready or not, and if he's too tied to Midgard, .... just hand it all over to the mighty SIF!

Odin: "Enough with these troublesome sons!"

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Sorry to say, I wont be censoring myself like that for anybody. I type what I want!!! If people read it and want to chat with me about it, great, if not, their loss. *shrugs*

any more thoughts on that Jaimie quote I posted in the other thread? specifically, "You really get to see how much love she has for her fellow Asgardians because she puts her life on the line and risks a lot to save a few Asgardians."

with that quote in mind, I feel like Sif should rule Asgard. (without Thor )

See, now it's a thread for everyone, it's a public forum, and sometimes compramises may have to be made to keep all members happy.
I know what you mean, and I respect that but you gotta try to think of it from other's perspectives Elizah, and not just do something cause you have the right to do so, its a public thread. I think some people feel that this thread has ventured away fromm a thread to discuss things regarding the subjected, and has more so turned into a conversation between two people. Regardless if someone makes a comment regarding an idea, if someone ignores the super long posts and tries to create something else to talk about, it will venture back into what it has been because it's happened before, that's what interests you at the moment, which is understandable. However, when that happens, you need to see that when you post about all of this stuff as you want to, and are entitled to, you only have one, and maybe two people who are fully able to read everything, and talk about what you are talking about. Others probably can't keep up, and feel that it's a moot point to bring something up, because it will stray back into what it's been anyway, which to me is what's going on here, and that some people aren't happy with it. I feel that some people seem to think that it isn't thread for discussion, as much as it is Elizah's and AM's personal discussion. Most likely, some people are fustrated by it.

Now, again, in my opinion, you say you can write what you want to, and that is totally acceptable, however, this isn't YOUR thread. You know what I mean,? I know you do, you made it, but it is still everyone's thread to discuss the subject, and if a lot of posters feel that there is a problem with how it is going, that should be respected, instead of deciding the right to say what you want, and calling it tough..you know what I mean? It should be for everyone to feel comfortable to talk in, that's what you made it for, it wasn't made for a back and forth discussion between two people, which I, you KNOW isn't the case, HOWEVER based on the pase of the thread, that's the appearance it seems to be taking from someone not involved in your way of speculating, and there lies the problem. That the thought that your back and forth speculation is too much and that it is taking away other people's descisions to add input. I know you are open to other conversation, and have said so, and you respect that, but it seems to be at the point where mostly people don't even bother anyway, because it would appear to be moot. t I think that is what may be fustrating to him, and others who may not have chosen to say so, A lot of people can't keep up, and when an attempt to steer it in a different direction has been made, because of that, it will probably stray back into how it was, which is what some people may be thinking

Now I'm not telling you to ease up with the depth, cause you are entitled to do what you want, and it is certainly interesting and fun to you, however, if you choose to continue to do it that way, chances are it will continue to aggrivate some of the posters who have been here a while, because the topic of this open thread is something way too obscure for the majority of posters to follow, and it probably aggrivates them, resulting in comments in saying that you are a plant, same person, troll..etc...everyone should be happy

personally, I think it's very interesting, regarding your speculation, it keeps us occupied, I don't agree with all of it, and I do think it is a bit too much, you know I feel that way, but I make of it what I can and comment what I can, and the enthusiasm is fun, however, where it is at the point where other posters seem to possibly be getting fustrated by what appears to be going on, then it may be time for a compramise, ya know?. You can do what you want, I won't judge, and I will continue to post, and talk about and get in what I can, but this IS a public forum, and the the priority should be the content and the well being of EVERYONE's opinions. Atleast that's how I would moderate a thread. as a whole for everybody. to have the community and posters as a whole, all content with the discussion and be happy, even if it means a compramise to get us there. Based on how things are going, and how some people seem to be reacting, I think that the best way to make everyone happy, and to avoid future issues would be a fair compramise. and that's my opinion on the matter. I think the enthusiasm is great, however sometimes it's a bit too much for me to follow, and I do think this thread would thrive a bit more if more people felt that they could come in and discuss things without feeling like it will venture back into something they can't discuss. I'll continue doing what I've been doing, it works for me, it works for you, and I am having fun either way, I can't speak for others, but I have always been good at analyzing intention and words and comments and figuring out thoughts, and that's what I believe is going on, regarding a lot of other posters, especially ones who have been here for a long time. Now, please don't think I am telling you to change, I am neutral. There is only one poster here who pisses me off, and he is not ever in the thor forum. I am just telling it as I see it, from the POV of someone who isn't on either side of the disagreement. Whatever you chose to do,, either way is fine by me personally, cause I can still talk about what I want to, and can, but personally, Elizah, I think a bit of compramise on your part overall would do this thread some good. But it's your descision, and either way, it doesn't matter to me .


Anyway, back on topic. Something new to discuss




I personally believe that we may get to see some of thor's rogue gallery, as sort of a show off. Some characters that probably won't have a big future, but just some characters to show that they DO exist in the MCU, and they may have had some big moments in the past, such as Ymir, personally, that's what I think they are doing with Hela. I DO think Malekith will be Killed by Kurse in this movie.

I also think that we will first hear about the prophecie of Ragnorok.

ALSO, another thing I was thinking of, was that a part of the prophecy (idk how to spell that) my be fufilled. Chances are, it will be different from the comics, for example, we could hear Odin talk about the prophecy, and it starts with a Tyrant falling at the hands of his own, yada dada...leads to surtur completely twilight, and burning the nine realms.

Kurse kills malekith. Odin is aware that Kurse was once one of Malekith's, so it occurs to him that a part of the prophecie has been fulfilled. This is just an example of what I mean, in terms of the prophecie and ragnarok. I don't think it will happen that way at all, that's just to give a view on how I am thinking.

However I do think ragnarok will be discussed and mentioned multiple times in this movie. Especially since this movie seems to have a sort of...well, ritual tone to it

[elizah72]

*looks at long ass post* Nahhhh.... not gonna read it.

just kidding I read it. *twice*

I understand it may be intimidating, because we do get in depth, and we do write long posts, and we do discuss a lot of little things back and forth, but that's what this is here for. Plot points can be in the details, so the little details will be discussed to see if any plot points might be there. And I can't try to get a flow of things as far as plot without having a long post laying out what I think *might* happen. When I type my summary posts, I try to keep down the detail I have in my head believe it or not, and use lots of paragraphs so it's not just one huge block of text, to try to make it easier to read and understand. But I can't sum it up in one or two lines. Sorry. So that's why I say if people read and want to reply, great. if not, their loss.

On talking the little details, for instance, there are scratches on Thor's face all through Greenwich filming, we now know due to our discussion and finding of Clappers and scene numbers that quite a few scenes occur during that time and still he is scarred. If he's taking a while to heal, and it seems to have happened prior to these scenes, then something powerful must have hit him earlier, it appears to me like a cat scratch, and I don't think by a large Kurselike hand, and women are more known for scratching in a fight than men, SO. You know who I'm thinking of. And if it winds up being Hela that did it to show her deathly touch, then I'm gonna remind you people of that!

Btw, speaking of which, I think that the scratches look less in the pictures of Thor vs Malekith by the column, and that would go along with it being at least a little while later after the scenes on the grass.

Now, where was I? Oh, yeah...

I don't know what to do. I don't believe me writing shorter and less in depth posts will make people come and share. I really don't. There are not that many people here in the first place from what I can see, and some may simply feel they dont' have the ideas to share or the time to share them. (so then it's not my fault they don't post!). Honestly as long as one person is chatting with me I'm fine with it, and I don't know why anyone should care if it is me and one or two other people. So what? We're not hurting anyone with it, and at least it's keeping our long in depth thoughts more or less out of the other threads, annoying and frightening people.

In any case, compromise, I don't know what to do, maybe AM and I could put our longer in depth stuff into spoiler tags that people can read or not? With maybe a few points about what we are discussing at the top to make it easier if people do want to read it. It would at least *look* less intimidating that way, although sounds like a lot of extra bother for us ( good thing both/one of us is getting paid to post here AM! ... )

Re: the Rogue's gallery, there is at least one guy at Bourne who I thought could be Skurge (guy with a Mohawk and large Ax), but I also feel like he may just be an extra. Also if Loki is in prison it occurred to me we might see at least one or two other of the Rogue's gallery there, sort of like the way we saw what else was in Odin's vault.

Who are the key ones you'd show? I think the leaders of the various realms and people seem like they should be shown, such as Hela, and Ymir, even if just a cameo, and I'd think we'd get at least mention of Karnilla and Nornheim, especially if I am right about Bourne being the outskirts of Nornheim.

I DO think Malekith will be Killed by Kurse in this movie.

I also think that we will first hear about the prophecie of Ragnorok.

first point, I'm not so sure of that and 2 yes probably. I have other thoughts on both of those but may do a longer post later, this one is long enough as it is. and I'm mulling some things over...

ALSO, another thing I was thinking of, was that a part of the prophecy (idk how to spell that) my be fufilled. Chances are, it will be different from the comics, for example, we could hear Odin talk about the prophecy, and it starts with a Tyrant falling at the hands of his own, yada dada...leads to surtur completely twilight, and burning the nine realms.

I agree it will be a bit different, but surely Loki will be involved, and I think that he will likely be the one, instead of Balder, who learns of his "destiny" this way, and then has to deal with it, accept it with glee, or decide to fight it. And I'm not so sure it won't be revealed that Odin already knows has been trying to change it. (as opposed to murdering an infant that he believes will grow up and cause Ragnarok, he tries to raise him into a good man and change that destiny)

Kurse kills malekith. Odin is aware that Kurse was once one of Malekith's, so it occurs to him that a part of the prophecie has been fulfilled. This is just an example of what I mean, in terms of the prophecie and ragnarok. I don't think it will happen that way at all, that's just to give a view on how I am thinking.

I think Malekith appears to be summoning something to Midgard still in the darkness there, and I think there is still one big end fight to come after all that Greenwich footage based on the clapper scene numbers. Admittedly it may not be Ymir and a snow storm that he summons, but I will again point out that in the comics and in mythos, an ice age on Midgard seems to be associated with end of days, in the comics that must happen before Surtur can come apparently, (and that's Malekith's final goal there) and the casket of ancient winters may very well be lost for good. So, again, it may not be that an Ice age has to come before Ragnarok in the MCU, maybe he summons Nihogg or the Midgard Serpent, and they are using that as a lead in to Ragnarok and Surtur later. I do find interesting the detail that much of the action filmed elsewhere are places along the Thames, and that could point to a serpent/dragon like creature that Thor has to chase after.

However I think that is part of the prophecy, whatever it is, will be fulfilled in this film, yes, and I think it's extremely likely to be fulfilled at the very end of the film with whatever Malekith is summoning. (due to pacing and suspense, it's just good storytelling to do that way)

As you suggested, I suppose Kurse vaguely being prophecized to kill his creator could work for that, but I am under the assumption that Malekith knows the prophecy as well, so whatever he's doing/summoning is helping to fulfill that so Surtur could come, and so it doesn't make sense that that would be part of the prophecy. It has to be something else, something bigger, like a massive winter on Midgard or a giant serpent, that is the thing he is trying to fulfill. That and I'm expecting that Kurse would have already been in a few fights by then so yet another fight with him at the end I think would be redundant. I predict what comes at the end, it'll be BIG and it'll be NEW.

[American Maid]

Regarding improving this thread, a question I have is, "What does a successful post look like?" Having something specific to strive for would help me achieve it, I think.

Rock Sexton, if you are still out there, I realized overnight that you have stuck with us for at least 33 pages of this thread. Thanks for that! Considering that, I suppose there must have been some parts of it that you found rewarding. Are you able to articulate what has worked for you in this thread? Perhaps I will be able to focus on doing more of that in the future.

Elizah had suggested putting the bulk of the post in spoiler tags with summary statements outside the tags. I had the same idea overnight. It would be like reading the headlines on a news website. Someone could get a very brief idea of what the poster is thinking. If they think, "Oh yeah, that makes sense," then they can move on. If they think, "Wait--what??", then they can open the spoiler button to see why the poster thinks that way.

Elizah expressed the concern that it might be time consuming. Perhaps not. We could compose the post as before, and then write headlines for each section. Then we highlight and click the spoiler tag icon.

Here is an example using (somewhat) current topics of discussion:
<begin>
I think the damage to the right side of Malekith's face is due to some sort of blast.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

First of all, the pattern of damage has a radius to it. It doesn't cut exactly down the middle of his face like it's shown in the comic and in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. There's also a gradient to the damage. It's more intense down by his lower jaw under his ear and fades to the normal dark elf skin by the center of his forehead.

Earlier, we thought it might be sun damage. But the "DAY/EXT." indication on the clapperboard in the shot of Malekith and the other dark elves lined up on the sidewalk indicates that in that scene, they are walking around in broad daylight. So the sun can't be that damaging to them.

I think Loki's arc is more likely to be tangled up in a Ragnarok prophecy than the Kurse-Malekith arc.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

I do like the idea of there being a non-specific prophecy, such as "the tyrant will be felled by his own right hand". Lots of prophecies leave themselves open to multiple interpretations. What I just proposed could mean the tyrant could commit suicide, or it could mean that his trusted adviser turns on him. In this case, they could set Algrim up in the place occupied by Wormwood in the Simonson telling: as Malekith's lieutenant. Then, ultimately, Algrim/Kurse kills Malekith and--oops--that part of the prophecy is fulfilled. This puts the good guys in the odd position of trying to protect Malekith. So I like those surprising turns of events.

Malevolent forces also could use that idea to think, "Well, Odin has been a tyrant all these millennia. What has Asgard ever done for us? Let's topple the tyrant. If it brings on Ragnarok, so be it. It's Asgard's prophecy anyway, so it probably refers just to the destruction of Asgard." So that would play into the idea we've been kicking around here of not everyone being satisfied with how Asgard has been running things.

But as Elizah said, Malekith is kind of small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. Plus, there sadly have been many, many tyrants, probably in all the Nine Realms, many of whom have been toppled by underlings or by their own doing, both of which would fulfill this prophecy. So it doesn't seem to fit as well in my mind.

THe original, mythic, prophecy has the death of Baldr triggering Ragnarök. So something involving one of Odin's sons seems closer to the original material. Plus, I have this vague recollection that in a recent book there was a prophecy involving Loki, and that Odin felt compelled to rescue him as an infant. So we are tied into the Marvel mythos by involving Loki that way.

Finally, Hiddleston has been suggesting that there might yet be a turn-around for Loki. So having him tied up in something along these lines might fit the bill.

<end>


So Jon (and Rock Sexton, and whomever else), I ask you whether you think something like the above example would achieve the desired effect. Elizah noted that there do not seem to be many people who are reading this thread. I hope that is not a sign that it is already too late. I hope we can make the discussion more robust.

Thanks!

[elizah72]

Oh, to be clear. I see plenty of lurkers reading this thread. members and quite a few non members. it's just more maybe they don't have a thought to share, or time to share it, or are not members... none of those things are our fault for the way we post. What I meant earlier is it doesn't seem like the Thor forums here have that many people in them posting in general, slightly more in the other movie forums, maybe, but not much more, and some of that may be due to the fact that the movie is still quite a ways away.

Elizah had suggested putting the bulk of the post in spoiler tags with summary statements outside the tags. I had the same idea overnight. It would be like reading the headlines on a news website. Someone could get a very brief idea of what the poster is thinking. If they think, "Oh yeah, that makes sense," then they can move on. If they think, "Wait--what??", then they can open the spoiler button to see why the poster thinks that way.

we can try that, yes, it'll at least look less intimidating and appear more to the point, and yet we are still free to ramble on about details more under it, so don't have to censor ourselves that way.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Oh, to be clear. I see plenty of lurkers reading this thread. members and quite a few non members.

That's good! I suppose, then, they are getting something out of it.

Originally Posted by elizah72

What I meant earlier is it doesn't seem like the Thor forums here have that many people in them posting in general, slightly more in the other movie forums, maybe, but not much more, and some of that may be due to the fact that the movie is still quite a ways away.

That's undoubtedly a factor.

<using spoiler buttons for long explanations>

Originally Posted by elizah72

we can try that, yes, it'll at least look less intimidating and appear more to the point, and yet we are still free to ramble on about details more under it, so don't have to censor ourselves that way.

Well, the other advantage is that the headline gives a summary of the main point that the poster is trying to make. So a reader could skim and get the general idea quickly. They would at least be able to follow the discussion in a general way, I hope.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Oh, to be clear. I see plenty of lurkers reading this thread. members and quite a few non members. it's just more maybe they don't have a thought to share, or time to share it, or are not members... none of those things are our fault for the way we post. What I meant earlier is it doesn't seem like the Thor forums here have that many people in them posting in general, slightly more in the other movie forums, maybe, but not much more, and some of that may be due to the fact that the movie is still quite a ways away.



we can try that, yes, it'll at least look less intimidating and appear more to the point, and yet we are still free to ramble on about details more under it, so don't have to censor ourselves that way.

generally. And Again, it doesn't matter to me.. But my main concern with the thoughts of others is that, yes the Thor forums here are slower than other movie posters, and certainly less posters. However, it could be a coincidence, but this thor forum was more active before all this deep speculation started, which lead me to get concerned that this speculation may have driven people away from the Thor forum, and be the reason that there are less people here in the first place. Again, could be coincidence cause of the lack of news. You guys can do whatever you want to do, I am sure most people will think that the deep speculation needs to be cut back, which isn't completely necessary.

Either way, it doesn't matter, because when movie gets closer, this thread will die down a lot, and the news and speculation thread will be flowing like crazy ANYWAY. So you should do what you want to do, and if spoilering some of your more deep speculation is your way of compramising, then go for it, cause you are making an effort. Whatever happens, happens I suppose.

and AM, don't appologize to me, I have no problem with what you are doing, I can't follow it, so I just do what I can. But it seems we are at a bit of a brick wall here guys, so let's just end this conversation, and move forward, and hope that more people will be willing to talk.


Now for his rogue gallery. If it seems that the 9 realms are being toured, I would expect multiple cameos, I could actually see Skurge and Amora appearing. Maybe simply by name, maybe even a cameo. They are a part of mainstream media it seems when it comes to Thor, so I would expect them to be a part of the MCU sooner or later. Other people may appear, like Ymir, if they go to jotenheim, he certainly could have a cameo, Hela, maybe Karnilla, Ulik, maybe the serpent, hell, maybe even freakin Mangog. (I think that would be awesome)

[ctsketch]

the wild fan fiction writing in the Thor forums sure has driven me to read it less....

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by ctsketch

the wild fan fiction writing in the Thor forums sure has driven me to read it less....

Hey, baby it's ALLLL "fan fiction" until the movie comes out.

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Either way, it doesn't matter, because when movie gets closer, this thread will die down a lot, and the news and speculation thread will be flowing like crazy ANYWAY. So you should do what you want to do, and if spoilering some of your more deep speculation is your way of compramising, then go for it, cause you are making an effort. Whatever happens, happens I suppose.

I think what AM suggested, a general sum up line at the top and then longer in depth answer in the spoiler button, might be a good thing for some of us more verbose types to try, even if it is at least a slight pain in the neck for us to do. I think it might help me reading some responses too, actually.

and maybe it might be best if I keep my future longer "fan fiction" speculations in spoiler threads so people can more easily read them or pass it by, if they so desire.

[Rock Sexton]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

I think he means, that the speculation here is a bit too, well, big and obscure, and this IS a thread for EVERYONE to talk about possible ideas, and he, and others may find it hard to throw their ideas in and contribute to the discussion when all the posts here are long and mostly between two people speculating deeply into detail, regarding things that most people don't really want to think about at this point. It's difficult, that's how I see it, and it is understandable, I try to say what I can and gather what I can from you guys, but the posts are incredibly long and too detailed, so 80% of this thread is you two speculating on these things back and forth. lol This speculation is probably too deep for other people to read, nor do they probably have the time to read all of it, so people who think they may have something to add, or discuss regarding plot ideas, probably just avoid doing so here.

I'm completely neutral, so I am trying to speak without bias, that's how I see it from another's POV

I'm not one to hide how I feel about something.

I think between the two of them, as well as Lokidyonisis, we've been having this strange run of uber-fanfiction dominating this Thor forum (notice how nobody posts in this particular thread except the two of them) .... it's actually crept into a couple other MCU ones as well. I come here to click on threads hoping to get something legitimate to read, only to find myself having to sift over piles of excessively over-analyzed blurting.

I personally don't like when it's being portrayed as "piecing together the plot" and I'm allowed to voice that opinion, just as they are writing novels back and forth all day long about a scratch on Thor's head in a set pic.

The other part for me, I've stated before, is I cannot fathom why two people would waste their time trying to piece together the ENTIRE FILM from the obscure information we've gotten thus far, let alone try to figure out the entire plot BEFORE they've even seen the movie. I mean my my lord .... Marvel is trying to construct some great movies for us and certain individuals want to deconstruct it before it even gets to the screen. It's like kids poking holes in the wrapping of their Xmas presents before Xmas day. I can understand 5 year olds doing it, but adults? I admire some of the enthusiasm but, there is a serious lack of patience on display.

Originally Posted by jaqua99

However, it could be a coincidence, but this thor forum was more active before all this deep speculation started, which lead me to get concerned that this speculation may have driven people away from the Thor forum, and be the reason that there are less people here in the first place. Again, could be coincidence cause of the lack of news. You guys can do whatever you want to do, I am sure most people will think that the deep speculation needs to be cut back, which isn't completely necessary.

You hit the nail on the head, at least for me personally. Used to love coming to this forum every day for new updates ..... but again I find myself having to sift thru endless amounts of what IMO is fan-fiction.

[elizah72]

I'm not one to hide how I feel about something either. We have that in common. You don't understand what we are doing or why, and you don't like it, and you want to wait and be surprised. That's fine, perfectly understandable. So, hey, here's an idea.... how about you don't come to this thread any more. Problem solved. Easy peasy. You voiced your opinion. Fine, now no reason for you to keep coming back voicing that opinion here and having to sift through our "fan fiction". That saves you time and energy and us frustration. We already know how you feel and now you know how I feel. I'm certainly not going to stop because someone who says they want to be surprised and doesn't like the idea of figuring out plot points and such comes into a thread *titled* plot ideas to be used for speculation and complains. That's silly. Just stop clicking on this link and reading it. Not usually anything completely new here anyway. At least I'm trying to keep this type of speculation out of the other threads this way, would you prefer this thread close and we go back to doing it in the other threads? I think not.

And by the way, absolutely NONE of your business how or why I "waste time" here or anywhere else. I cannot fathom why anyone would spend any time whatsoever even thinking about who I might be and why I'm posting on a board. I'm here. I can speculate and construct or deconstruct as I please. Get over it, and move on.

[Rock Sexton]

Originally Posted by elizah72

I'm not one to hide how I feel about something either. We have that in common. You don't understand what we are doing or why, and you don't like it, and you want to wait and be surprised. That's fine, perfectly understandable. So, hey, here's an idea.... how about you don't come to this thread any more. Problem solved. Easy peasy. You voiced your opinion. Fine, now no reason for you to keep coming back voicing that opinion here and having to sift through our "fan fiction". That saves you time and energy and us frustration. We already know how you feel and now you know how I feel. I'm certainly not going to stop because someone who says they want to be surprised and doesn't like the idea of figuring out plot points and such comes into a thread *titled* plot ideas to be used for speculation and complains. That's silly. Just stop clicking on this link and reading it. Not usually anything completely new here anyway. At least I'm trying to keep this type of speculation out of the other threads this way, would you prefer this thread close and we go back to doing it in the other threads? I think not.

And by the way, absolutely NONE of your business how or why I "waste time" here or anywhere else. I cannot fathom why anyone would spend any time whatsoever even thinking about who I might be and why I'm posting on a board. I'm here. I can speculate and construct or deconstruct as I please. Get over it, and move on.

You two are dominating discussion in various other threads on this forum as well. It's virtually impossible to avoid it.

It's ok to discuss certain nugget, but my God show Marvel a little bit of respect and let them put out their fillm before you ruin it for yourself or other people.

[elizah72]

Chances are, whatever I speculate is not going to be 100% right.. I'll be lucky if it's 50% right. so I'm sure I'll be surprised and it wont' be ruined for me or anyone else. If that were true then people who read a book/comic book before seeing the movie version would have the movie completely ruined for them before they got there and then they'd leave the theatre mad because they knew the plot ahead of time. Doesn't happen.

It's all in fun, (my version of fun, if not yours apparently) and if it's right great, if not, oh, well. But I have no doubt I'll be surprised as will other people. In any case I'll put my "fan fiction" and longer responses in spoiler tags from now on it is easier for people to ignore it if they want. Now if you click this thread AND click my spoiler button AND read it, you have absolutely NO business complaining about how or what I post. Just don't click there and scroll past it.

as for dominating discussion in other threads, I hardly thinks so! And so what if we do post a lot? that's what a forum is for! I'm sure Marvel thinks it's better to be talked about than not talked about, and I'm sure the people who run the Hype would rather have people posting than not.

I think I posted in the other threads more when I started but lately in the news thread I more stick to posting if I find a bit of news or picture or whatever to share. I'd think at least some people would appreciate that! I'm not posting much if any speculation there anymore, I use this for most of my speculation (which is part of the reason for this thread, to not derail that thread). The Loki thread (which I can't recall seeing you in much if at all) I post more but again, that's what that thread is for! Loki/Tom discussion! and again I've been lately keeping most of my "fan fiction" Thor 2 speculation in this thread, which you surely CAN avoid reading very VERY easily if you really want to.

[elizah72]

Well. I would said Lawden is likely to be correct about one thing so far...
http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/01/19...-blockbusters/

ComicBook.com: And is it a really interesting working environment? I mean, you can find yourself just surrounded in the Marvel Universe now with Academy Award-caliber actors, with actors who are the top-grossing actors of the last decade.
Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje: Yeah, I mean look: I can recall the scene. I’m in the scene and Renee Russo is in my arms or beside me and I’m facing Anthony Hopkins and Chris Hemsworth and Chris Eccleston–and just about every great actor within that genre is in the room and you just realize it’s a great privilege and honor. To be opposite Anthony Hopkins and to watch him work is just…amazing.

So, sounds like Frigga get's grabbed by Kurse/Algrim and Thor, Odin, and Malekith are all present.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Well. I would said Lawden is likely to be correct about one thing so far...
http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/01/19...-blockbusters/

<pull quote omitted>

So, sounds like Frigga get's grabbed by Kurse/Algrim and Thor, Odin, and Malekith are all present.

And your account of Natalie Portman's body double being in Iceland, and previous reports of Tom Hiddleston (and Chris Hemsworth, obviously) being in Iceland, suggest that the item in Lawden's spoiler about Thor, Jane, and Loki going on a journey is likely to be at least somewhat correct.

[elizah72]

Yup. And given the clapper scene numbers we found it seems likely that that trip happens mid movie. Seems like Lawden probably had info for the first 2/3rds or at least first 1/2 of the movie.

Loki and Frigga related speculation:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

I'm happy about this since I was concerned that Loki might be stuck in jail for at least the first 1/3 of the film and we wouldn't get much but it seems like he might get out not too long after we see him in there in the beginning. How much time he will have been in there, we'll have to wait and see, we did get a confirmation recently from the wigmaker that his hair IS a bit longer than Avengers though, and certainly Thor's is so he's been in there a little while... I think in this case we probably will not see a trial of any kind since that would require wigs with shorter hair.

The bad part of this is it seems likely Frigga dies pretty early on and so may not get as much screen time as I was hoping, but then again, perhaps she gets a bit more if they have to go on (as I've been speculating based on the Simonson run) this speculated trip to Hel to get Hela to release her to Valhalla (and maybe get Hela to free Jane of this possession as well). So crossing my fingers she get's some good screen time before and after she dies. That quote from AAA you pointed out in that interview about "You never know what will become of what character–nobody ever really dies." is interesting in regards to that.

One question that I'm dying to know is what is Loki's part in the end battle, because I feel sure he will have a part in the end, and yet, it seems like the big fight at the end will be on Midgard, after Thor vs Malekith and the Dark Elves, then Thor has to move onto whatever Malekith has summoned to fulfill that part of the Ragnarok prophecy. So that'll be interesting, if he'll be part of whatever evil is going down at the end, (which seems very predictable and repetitious) or he'll try and help his brother to make some amends and try to stop the destiny that's been dealt him. (which would certainly fall under the category of "something new" and surprising. )

As with Loki, it seems like things with Thor and Jane will happen pretty quick from the beginning. I mean they have to get her up to Asgard, getting to know Thor as Feige has stated will happen, and then going on whatever adventure they are going to go on in Iceland, Jane getting possessed (per Lawden) and then apparently deciding to go back to Earth after that. I mean that's A LOT of territory to cover! Plus Frigga very possibly dying, and what sounds like lots of fights and wars with Kurse going up against several characters and several other realms shown, a possible coronation. It's going to be a pretty packed movie!

I'm just going to spoiler my replies to certain topics if it's more than a short paragraph and if it seems mostly speculative.

[itchyscratch]

This happens a lot on forums - one or two people join an established forum and get overly enthusiastic and appoint themselves the official thread repliers. Whenever anyone else posts a question or an idea they then take it upon themselves to be the first ones to reply then carry on the discussion to the extent where when other people do log in they can't see the point of commenting on the original post as any potential group discussion has already been hijacked by the usual suspects.

When one or two people try to dominate a thread, even with the best of intentions, it doesn't promote discussion, it kills it. Surely you realise that, elizah.

I don't care what you post here on this thread, which I see as a personal one between you and AM. Like Rock Sexton, I find myself clicking on this thread because I'm curious to see if you and American Maid are ever able to log in at the same time. I'd add the Lokiwhatever person dropping foilers to that multiple personality list too. I do appreciate the spoilers and information you bring over. Clearly you have a lot of time on your hands to google.

But please be aware that there are heaps of people who posted when Thor and The Avengers came out who aren't commenting at all here now. I really hope they will when the official pics, trailers and information starts coming in and the main thread will get back to normal.

[elizah72]

I really don't think that's fair at all to attest lack of posting in the whole of the Thor forums to us two being too chatty. That is not fair AT ALL. Yes, I'm overly enthusiastic, and I probably did appoint myself a "thread replier" to start with, my mistake thinking anyone would want to hear from me, I suppose. But crushing the enthusiasm that new people have by accusing them of being multiple personalities/doppelgangers/plants, slights, and being the cause of the forums to slow down is hardly a way to make people feel comfortable and happy to be posting at the Hype. If anything it's behavior like that, and reading that behavior happen in front of them, that is what makes people stop posting on this board as a whole.

There are numerous reasons why things are slow here now, and it most certainly is not to do with me or AM. So please leave us in peace, and I say, if you don't like my "fan fiction" speculations or my posts in general, then just stop reading them! Simple solution!

[jaqua99]

My god, what have I done -_-