The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 143

[-JKR-]

That's another reason I sometimes get upset (not too much, because everyone has their opinions; but I do hate the meme-language and bandwagoning when discussing a movie) when people completely crap on the movie: First of all, because I think it's a such a great and exciting movie, and thank God I wasn't at all upset of Nolan's conclusion of the trilogy. And second because there's such a great message about heroism and lots of heart in the movie. It makes you feel for the characters, and makes you wish there were more people like Bruce Wayne in our society (and there are, of course, real life heroes in our world, but the scum definitely has a higher percentage). It's really a love letter to Batman's history, and the icon that the character has become. And I add that watching the movie with my 9-year old brother is simply magic, bringing me back to when I would watch Batman with wide eyes. I grew up on Batman, then got into music and girls and teenage stuff, and thanks to Nolan's trilogy got back into appreciating comic books and superheroes as a form of art, pop culture and entertainment. And of course the positivity that such characters can carry with them.
So a big thank you to Nolan and the crew for waking up my inner child again. And I hope to see more and more children fall in love with these characters and their legacy!
Christian Bale is definitely a class act; it's hard for me to see a "lil' man" (meaning a child, just to make it clear) in such conditions, but at the same time it's so great to see them smile nonetheless. And that something like Batman can contribute to make a child smile is such a great thing! So, I wish all the best to the kid, and to (unfortunately) lots of other kids in similar situations!

[BlueLightning]

That was just beautiful, and Zack is a strong fighter. When you see him smile, makes one think about what is really important, and Mr. Bale's gesture shows us what could we do to help others, even if it's a little encouraging call.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by BlueLightning

That was just beautiful, and Zack is a strong fighter. When you see him smile, makes one think about what is really important, and Mr. Bale's gesture shows us what could we do to help others, even if it's a little encouraging call.

Cue "anybody can be a hero, even someone doing something as simple..." speech.

But it's true. Not all of us can be the conquering hero, but all of us can do these simple things to make someone's day better. It can certainly snowball from there!

[HitMe]

Alright I haven't posted here since the film came out, but here's my take on a few things people have raised in various threads;

1. People have been saying that they don't like Bane's story being messed with and his childhood actually being Talias, but there's nothing in the film to suggest Banes story wasn't still true. Indeed Bane says that he was born there, and I don't see why he'd lie. It's possible for two people to be born in a hellhole :P

2. Bane is not necessarily reduced to just Talias muscle because she wants the same end result he does, just for slightly different reasons. In my opinion.

3. When talking about the end many people have said that it couldn't be Alfred imagining it because he never met Selina, but he did meet her, right at the beginning of the film. I don't think he was imagining the end but for all the conspiracy theorists who want to believe, the scene is there. And right afterwards he's talking about setting them up and chimpanzees and stuff.

4. The line about Bruces parents from the trailer should have been left in.

5. Foley should have been left out.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by HitMe

Alright I haven't posted here since the film came out, but here's my take on a few things people have raised in various threads;

1. People have been saying that they don't like Bane's story being messed with and his childhood actually being Talias, but there's nothing in the film to suggest Banes story wasn't still true. Indeed Bane says that he was born there, and I don't see why he'd lie. It's possible for two people to be born in a hellhole :P

2. Bane is not necessarily reduced to just Talias muscle because she wants the same end result he does, just for slightly different reasons. In my opinion.

3. When talking about the end many people have said that it couldn't be Alfred imagining it because he never met Selina, but he did meet her, right at the beginning of the film. I don't think he was imagining the end but for all the conspiracy theorists who want to believe, the scene is there. And right afterwards he's talking about setting them up and chimpanzees and stuff.

4. The line about Bruces parents from the trailer should have been left in.

5. Foley should have been left out.

I agree with most of this, but I appreciate the perspective Foley gives that Batman is still seen as a menace after all this time. Gotham really valued Dent that much as a martyr that Batman is a top priority to take down, even 8 years later.

Could they have done this another way? Sure. Bullock? I wouldn't have minded. But I also don't mind Foley, and he didn't take up enough screen time to bother me. There are many other things I'd scrap in favor of giving other story bits more room to blossom.

In regard to #4, there were several things from the trailers that I'm shocked didn't make it into the final cut. Hans Zimmer's best two tracks he composed for the film, in the trailers for Rises (trailer 3 and 4), not in the final cut. Blooowwss my mind.

[BatLobsterRises]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think those tracks were composed specifically for promotional use. I also wouldn't be surprised if they were done by some of Zimmer's underlings (not a knock on him, just he was probably busy enough with the actual score). And yes, they are awesome. And actually, I suspect the Trailer 4/MTV music was done as part of the collaboration JunkieXL. Their collaboration seemed pretty extensive, so I have to figure it yielded more than just the "Bombers of Ibiza" remix.

I think Zimmer mentioned something about wanting to release every piece of music ever recorded for the entire trilogy in a huge set. I'd love to see that happen.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I think Zimmer mentioned something about wanting to release every piece of music ever recorded for the entire trilogy in a huge set. I'd love to see that happen.

All of my money.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by HitMe

3. When talking about the end many people have said that it couldn't be Alfred imagining it because he never met Selina, but he did meet her, right at the beginning of the film. I don't think he was imagining the end but for all the conspiracy theorists who want to believe, the scene is there. And right afterwards he's talking about setting them up and chimpanzees and stuff.

The timeline is unclear, and what they might release about how the whole thing went down is unclear as well, but Alfred was actively trying to set Bruce up with Miranda. If Alfred even had an inkling of belief that Miranda was alive (and of course he didn't know she was the mastermind), then she would be there with Bruce, not Selina, if he was imagining it.

The line about chimps was a joke. He didn't think Bruce had any romantic interest in Selina, especially after she jacked the pearls. Also, the line from the lawyer about the pearls being missing, then seeing them on Selina in Italy is just another sign that they ran away and are real.

[RustyCage]

Nicely done, Anita.

Why don't I remember the thing about chimps? Must rewatch.

[TDK elbowstrike]

I have never been able to figure out why Foley is such a polarizing character. I think he served his purpose int the film and had no problems with him or Modines performance. What exactly is it that some people didn't like about him?

[Excelsior.]

Originally Posted by TDK elbowstrike

I have never been able to figure out why Foley is such a polarizing character. I think he served his purpose int the film and had no problems with him or Modines performance. What exactly is it that some people didn't like about him?

He was clearly supposed to be a character that is an opportunistic ******* at the beginning who morphs into a selfless hero, as a statement of Batman's positive influence on *******s. Yes, he was that. But it just wasn't done well. It wasn't given enough attention. He sees Batman's flaming symbol and suddenly becomes a hero. Nolan also missed the chance to milk last minute sympathy for him by giving him a hilarious death.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by RustyCage

Nicely done, Anita.

Why don't I remember the thing about chimps? Must rewatch.

It was like, the best line!

"There was printer toner mixed with graphite on the safe. Gives a good pull, and it's untraceable."
"Fascinating. You two should exchange notes over coffee."
"So now you're trying to set me up with a jewel thief?"
"At this point I'd set you up with a chimpanzee, if it brought you back to the world."

[TheGuy]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

He was clearly supposed to be a character that is an opportunistic ******* at the beginning who morphs into a selfless hero, as a statement of Batman's positive influence on *******s. Yes, he was that. But it just wasn't done well. It wasn't given enough attention. He sees Batman's flaming symbol and suddenly becomes a hero. Nolan also missed the chance to milk last minute sympathy for him by giving him a hilarious death.

Ha? Him hiding in his house was a natural reaction of the hangings. It never felt out of place. It also represented a recurring theme of the trilogy which I don't have to explain. Foley has been lambasted for having too much but you want him to take up more screen time?

[TDK elbowstrike]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

He was clearly supposed to be a character that is an opportunistic ******* at the beginning who morphs into a selfless hero, as a statement of Batman's positive influence on *******s. Yes, he was that. But it just wasn't done well. It wasn't given enough attention. He sees Batman's flaming symbol and suddenly becomes a hero. Nolan also missed the chance to milk last minute sympathy for him by giving him a hilarious death.

Very true. Lol. His death was weirdly edited. You see him shooting then you see a vehicle speeding towards him. Then cut to a scene of him lying dead, no blood. It was definitely cut in an odd way. And it was supposed to be a heros death, but instead it came across a bit strange and vaguely funny.

[MagnarTheGreat]

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

This was Foley's death. It was cut.

[Anno_Domini]

^ I prefer Talia telling her driver to "Shoot them. Shoot them all."

Only would have preferred to see some blood though and Foley actually looking like he's dead rather than sleeping.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

He was clearly supposed to be a character that is an opportunistic ******* at the beginning who morphs into a selfless hero, as a statement of Batman's positive influence on *******s. Yes, he was that. But it just wasn't done well. It wasn't given enough attention. He sees Batman's flaming symbol and suddenly becomes a hero. Nolan also missed the chance to milk last minute sympathy for him by giving him a hilarious death.

He finds out Gordon could be losing his job and takes it as a chance to one-up Gordon in different scenarios such as bossing rookie cops and taking Batman down, then when realizing how Gordon was right about the masked man and his underground army acts likes a good little soldier until Bane hung those special forces guys which he then decides to hide his uniform and badge and stay hidden with his wife only to find out that Batman is back and now the GCPD has a fighting chance. I like the arc myself.

[Kane52630]

[kvz5]

I kinda felt bad for Modine. He was the biggest cheerleader of the movie (to the point where he was already borderline trolling ) and his character ended up being so disappointing.

[Excelsior.]

Ha? Him hiding in his house was a natural reaction of the hangings. It never felt out of place.

That wasn't what worked. What didn't work and feel hollow was his redemption.

Foley has been lambasted for having too much but you want him to take up more screen time?

This is one of the great ironies of movie making. Scenes that feel short and character arcs that feel hollow and unneeded can actually improve by adding to them.

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

He finds out Gordon could be losing his job and takes it as a chance to one-up Gordon in different scenarios such as bossing rookie cops and taking Batman down, then when realizing how Gordon was right about the masked man and his underground army acts likes a good little soldier until Bane hung those special forces guys which he then decides to hide his uniform and badge and stay hidden with his wife only to find out that Batman is back and now the GCPD has a fighting chance. I like the arc myself.

It's him so easily trusting and being inspired by Batman enough to risk his life that rings hollow for me. Especially when he led a manhunt for him earlier in the film where his opinion Batman wasn't very high to say the least. Why would the mere return of this man so move him? Perhaps there should've been a scene where he meets Batman face to face. Being in his physical presence, perhaps exchanging a few words, perhaps seeing Batman work his kick assery might've lent some credibility to his redemption.

[Boom]

Originally Posted by Kane52630

I kinda like the one on the left.

[TheGuy]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

It's him so easily trusting and being inspired by Batman enough to risk his life that rings hollow for me. Especially when he led a manhunt for him earlier in the film where his opinion Batman wasn't very high to say the least. Why would the mere return of this man so move him? Perhaps there should've been a scene where he meets Batman face to face. Being in his physical presence, perhaps exchanging a few words, perhaps seeing Batman work his kick assery might've lent some credibility to his redemption.

The city was under siege and a bomb about to go off in hours.

[Excelsior.]

Didn't stop Batman from elaborating a beautiful flaming Bat symbol and getting tongue action from Catwoman. Character development >>>>> some stupid timebomb.

[BlueLightning]

To be fair, he had The Bat to help him. Shouldn't be that hard for ol' Bats.

[BatLobsterRises]

I think the beauty of it all is how Bane's siege of the city makes all previous ideas about Batman irrelevant. Batman and the GCPD always had an uneasy relationship because he was on the opposing side of the law. But Bane's Gotham obliterates any semblance of law and order. Those ideals become an empty canvas, and Batman's symbol now urgently represents what it was originally intended for: that the good can prevail in the face of a broken system, as long as the good people act.

You could tell Foley was in denial when he kept telling Gordon that they had to keep their heads down and wait for it to be fixed by the government. He didn't want to hear what Gordon had to say but that doesn't mean it didn't register on some level. Batman's fire rising simply shook him out of his apathy. Poor Gordon, he's just a man, he can be ignored. But that burning symbol was a beacon of light through the darkness. It taps into something primal. Much harder to ignore.