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Old 01-17-2013, 12:31 PM   #401
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

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As far as the roster for A2 - From Renner & Ruffalo's comments, Hawkeye & Hulk will both be back. It goes with saying Cap, IM & Thor will be back. I don't see a reason for Widow not to come back.

My guess is the only additions, if there are any, will be Ant Man & Wasp. Either one of them or both of them.
You don't think Falcon will join? As much as I wanted Ant-Man and Wasp in the sequel, there is a good possibility that they wont show up till the third. (Although I love everyone's theories about them showin up in 2!) That being said however, I think just from an informational standpoint, if there are any new additions it'll be Falcon before anyone else.

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Old 01-18-2013, 12:57 AM   #402
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

Over in the Misc Film section, Avengers is equaling with TDKR in Best Picture. Come on guys, get voting

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Old 01-20-2013, 04:35 PM   #403
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

Characters I would LOVE to see:

Ant-man
Warmachine
Black Panther
Wasp

(woohoo first post!)

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Old 01-20-2013, 05:09 PM   #404
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

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Characters I would LOVE to see:

Ant-man
Warmachine
Black Panther
Wasp

(woohoo first post!)
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I'd like to see everyone on your list except I don't really care to see War Machine in The Avengers 2. Though it may get a little sticky explaining where he is during the biggest attacks on earth every time.

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Old 01-21-2013, 07:20 AM   #405
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I would not mind seeing War Machine show up to help the team out, but I don't think he's necessary for the joining them. If they could explain away why he's not gonna join, i.e. the government wants/needs him somewhere else, I'd be fine with him showin up. But I'm already missin the Iron Man 2 armor, Stark is the one who's all sleek with fancy tech, War Machine needs to be a tank with a veritable warehouse of bad-ass weaponry.

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Old 01-21-2013, 07:35 AM   #406
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

I agree. I don't want him in the team, but it would be cool to see him pop up.

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Old 01-21-2013, 10:44 AM   #407
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

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I would not mind seeing War Machine show up to help the team out, but I don't think he's necessary for the joining them. If they could explain away why he's not gonna join, i.e. the government wants/needs him somewhere else, I'd be fine with him showin up. But I'm already missin the Iron Man 2 armor, Stark is the one who's all sleek with fancy tech, War Machine needs to be a tank with a veritable warehouse of bad-ass weaponry.
The Iron Man 3 prequel comic already explained War Machine's absence from the first Avenger movie as an assignment against Ten Rings terrorists in Hong Kong. You can't conveniently have War Machine be "away on assignment" every time the Avengers get together to save the world.

War Machine is part of the comic-book Avengers, so he has every right to belong to the movie Avengers. In fact, it makes absolutely no sense that the Avengers *wouldn't* try to recruit him --- whenever they're trying to save the world from a supervillain that requires teamwork, they're going to need all the super firepower they can muster.

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Old 01-21-2013, 12:37 PM   #408
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The Iron Man 3 prequel comic already explained War Machine's absence from the first Avenger movie as an assignment against Ten Rings terrorists in Hong Kong. You can't conveniently have War Machine be "away on assignment" every time the Avengers get together to save the world.

War Machine is part of the comic-book Avengers, so he has every right to belong to the movie Avengers. In fact, it makes absolutely no sense that the Avengers *wouldn't* try to recruit him --- whenever they're trying to save the world from a supervillain that requires teamwork, they're going to need all the super firepower they can muster.
I guess I could have clarified a bit more. I agree that it would be silly to explain away his absence in every Avengers movie, that's why I wouldn't mind him showing up to help out. Also your right that it wouldn't make sense for the team to not try to recruit him, however in my opinion I don't think he's needed on the team in the MCU. They have Iron Man for the robot lookin' guy. Now with that being said, if they did put him into a permanent spot on the team, I certainly wouldn't be sore about that either, as I've always liked War Machine better than Iron Man anyways. Hell, I even dug when Rhodey was Iron Man, plus like you said, he IS an Avenger, after all. So I guess bottom line is I'm fine with it either way, but I do think he needs to at least show up in some capacity.

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Old 01-21-2013, 10:24 PM   #409
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I have only read two superhero comic books in my entire life, The Killing Joke and Amazing Fantasy 15. And that was last summer. But I can swear I was well aware of who Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk and Nick Fury were before these movies.

You guys like to think Marvel superheroes are some kind of obscure, underground characters that no one out of the inner circles know of until they make blockbuters about them. Sorry, they're not.

As for The Avengers sequel's roster, I agree, Ant-Man ad Black Panther are definitive Avengers who more than deserve their roles in this franchise, as soon as possible. But I still think that somewhere along the way, Spider-Man (or/and Wolverine) should be part of it. Now, maybe it won't happen because of greedy studios who can't stand another studio making profit with the same product. But you know how close we were to actually having The Amazing Spider-Man and The Avengers crossing over ? Sony and Marvel had both agreed to have the Oscorp tower in TASM appear in The Avengers' New York skyline. At the moment the agreement was made, Marvel's CGI skyline had already been sent to be modelized, so it didn't happen. But the fact is that they both agreed. So I'd like to know how come some people here seem to know for a fact that these Universes will never cross paths ? It seems more like these people think if you repeat a lie over and over, it might become truth.

SPOILER ALERT : It does not.

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Old 01-21-2013, 11:04 PM   #410
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

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But I still think that somewhere along the way, Spider-Man (or/and Wolverine) should be part of it. Now, maybe it won't happen because of greedy studios who can't stand another studio making profit with the same product. But you know how close we were to actually having The Amazing Spider-Man and The Avengers crossing over ? Sony and Marvel had both agreed to have the Oscorp tower in TASM appear in The Avengers' New York skyline. At the moment the agreement was made, Marvel's CGI skyline had already been sent to be modelized, so it didn't happen. But the fact is that they both agreed. So I'd like to know how come some people here seem to know for a fact that these Universes will never cross paths ? It seems more like these people think if you repeat a lie over and over, it might become truth.

SPOILER ALERT : It does not.
Oh God .... not this crap again.


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Old 01-21-2013, 11:08 PM   #411
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

Some fanboys are just scared ****less that a genuine studio crossover is going to mess up the fragile continuity that they've dreamed up in their own heads. Even though every other fanboy and undoubtedly EVERY general audience member out there would easily grasp....and fervently wish for....the day when the Avengers and Spidey and the Fantastic Four and the X-Men all share the same real estate in Manhattan --- because, you know, that's the way it is in the actual comics we've been trying so hard to see brought to life --- the fact of the matter is that some people fear change. And spiders. And mutants, too, I guess.

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Old 01-22-2013, 12:21 AM   #412
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Whether or not people want Sony's Spider-Man in the MCU doesn't bug me. Whether or not people are sure it will definitely happen doesn't bug me either. What bugs me the most though is how there are some people that think bringing in Spider-Man somehow will mess up the whole universe and create plot holes everywhere. There is nothing - absolutely nothing - to suggest that will be the case. Nothing from TASM contradicts the MCU and nothing from the MCU contradicts TASM. Questions like "Where was Spider-Man during the invasion?" and "Where was SHIELD when the Lizard attacked" and "How come Fury didn't recruit Spider-Man?" are all simple questions that for the most part don't even require the suspension of disbelief of comics in order to be answered. All they need is a bit of logical thinking. If superheroes were real and faced supervillain threats, they wouldn't always be there when needed to begin with. At least not all of them at the same time.

Heck, this "problem" applies to the Marvel comics a lot more than the MCU but no one complains. At least in the MCU, there are fewer superheroes (so far) and supervillains and also, not everyone operates only in New York. In fact, if TASM is canon, Spider-Man is currently the only superhero that operates in New York City on a constant basis.

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Old 01-22-2013, 07:45 AM   #413
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

^Yup, Shikamaru.

Hell, us Marvelphile comic book fans have been asking those very questions of Stan Lee himself for decades --- where were the Avengers when the X-Men were out saving the world, and vice versa?

As it stands right now, the three major studios pretty much have the same divisions that we see in the comic books --- Avengers are doing their own thing, while the X-Men are doing *their* thing, and the Fantastic Four their own thing, and Spidey his own thing. They rarely met in the comics except for the occasional multi-title crossover; until Civil War/The Bendis Era tried to homogenize all superheroes into a single Initiative.

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Old 01-22-2013, 07:57 AM   #414
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

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I have only read two superhero comic books in my entire life, The Killing Joke and Amazing Fantasy 15. And that was last summer. But I can swear I was well aware of who Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk and Nick Fury were before these movies.

You guys like to think Marvel superheroes are some kind of obscure, underground characters that no one out of the inner circles know of until they make blockbuters about them. Sorry, they're not.

As for The Avengers sequel's roster, I agree, Ant-Man ad Black Panther are definitive Avengers who more than deserve their roles in this franchise, as soon as possible. But I still think that somewhere along the way, Spider-Man (or/and Wolverine) should be part of it. Now, maybe it won't happen because of greedy studios who can't stand another studio making profit with the same product. But you know how close we were to actually having The Amazing Spider-Man and The Avengers crossing over ? Sony and Marvel had both agreed to have the Oscorp tower in TASM appear in The Avengers' New York skyline. At the moment the agreement was made, Marvel's CGI skyline had already been sent to be modelized, so it didn't happen. But the fact is that they both agreed. So I'd like to know how come some people here seem to know for a fact that these Universes will never cross paths ? It seems more like these people think if you repeat a lie over and over, it might become truth.

SPOILER ALERT : It does not.
Well, Blade is...

And yeah, we all know the Oscorp Building story. Having a little reference like that is one thing (like Doctor Strange in Spider-Man 2). But it's important to understand that it's an entirely different thing to have actual characters crossing over.

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Some fanboys are just scared ****less that a genuine studio crossover is going to mess up the fragile continuity that they've dreamed up in their own heads. Even though every other fanboy and undoubtedly EVERY general audience member out there would easily grasp....and fervently wish for....the day when the Avengers and Spidey and the Fantastic Four and the X-Men all share the same real estate in Manhattan --- because, you know, that's the way it is in the actual comics we've been trying so hard to see brought to life --- the fact of the matter is that some people fear change. And spiders. And mutants, too, I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
Whether or not people want Sony's Spider-Man in the MCU doesn't bug me. Whether or not people are sure it will definitely happen doesn't bug me either. What bugs me the most though is how there are some people that think bringing in Spider-Man somehow will mess up the whole universe and create plot holes everywhere. There is nothing - absolutely nothing - to suggest that will be the case. Nothing from TASM contradicts the MCU and nothing from the MCU contradicts TASM. Questions like "Where was Spider-Man during the invasion?" and "Where was SHIELD when the Lizard attacked" and "How come Fury didn't recruit Spider-Man?" are all simple questions that for the most part don't even require the suspension of disbelief of comics in order to be answered. All they need is a bit of logical thinking. If superheroes were real and faced supervillain threats, they wouldn't always be there when needed to begin with. At least not all of them at the same time.

Heck, this "problem" applies to the Marvel comics a lot more than the MCU but no one complains. At least in the MCU, there are fewer superheroes (so far) and supervillains and also, not everyone operates only in New York. In fact, if TASM is canon, Spider-Man is currently the only superhero that operates in New York City on a constant basis.
I don't think the majority of people here have problems with the idea of bringing Spidey or the X-Men into the MCU--but I think it's useless to talk about it until the rights revert. To me, it's not a story/continuity issue--it's a legal/financial one.

The only exec who has said anything positive about characters crossing over while their rights are at different studios is Avi Arad, but when it's his word against Feige's and Tolmach's, I'm going with the latter. Everything is possible, but many things are quite unlikely.


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Old 01-22-2013, 08:18 AM   #415
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

call me old school but characters like Spidey or Wolverine should not be too close to the TA since they simply don't belong in this team. As long as the MCU is still very Avengers-centric randomly putting these characters in the same universe is therefore quiet annoying. After GOTG and especially Dr. Strange we can talk about this issue again

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:50 AM   #416
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The Iron Man 3 prequel comic already explained War Machine's absence from the first Avenger movie as an assignment against Ten Rings terrorists in Hong Kong. You can't conveniently have War Machine be "away on assignment" every time the Avengers get together to save the world.

War Machine is part of the comic-book Avengers, so he has every right to belong to the movie Avengers. In fact, it makes absolutely no sense that the Avengers *wouldn't* try to recruit him --- whenever they're trying to save the world from a supervillain that requires teamwork, they're going to need all the super firepower they can muster.
It would've been really nice if they had shown a little of what is in the prequel comic in the movie, even if it was just conversation between Tony and Jarvis inside his helmet, Jarvis could've relayed Rhodey's whereabouts. Going forward they are going to need to address War Machine when The Avengers rolls around, even if it is just a quick cut-away scene that shows War Machine in battle against a portion of the antagonist.

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:57 AM   #417
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

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call me old school but characters like Spidey or Wolverine should not be too close to the TA since they simply don't belong in this team. As long as the MCU is still very Avengers-centric randomly putting these characters in the same universe is therefore quiet annoying. After GOTG and especially Dr. Strange we can talk about this issue again
Not to mention Heroes for Hire and The Inhumans! I'm all for expanding the MCU beyond the Avengers.

I'm with you on not talking about it until later, but it's probably wise to expect (and accept) that it will be brought up pretty much every other day. By the same people.


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Old 01-22-2013, 09:04 AM   #418
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

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call me old school but characters like Spidey or Wolverine should not be too close to the TA since they simply don't belong in this team. As long as the MCU is still very Avengers-centric randomly putting these characters in the same universe is therefore quiet annoying. After GOTG and especially Dr. Strange we can talk about this issue again
I couldn't agree more.

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:18 AM   #419
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Not to mention Heroes for Hire and The Inhumans! I'm all for expanding the MCU beyond the Avengers.

I'm with you on not talking about it until later, but it's probably wise to expect (and accept) that it will be brought up pretty much every other day. By the same people.
I think we are going to see a pretty quick expansion of the MCU when SHIELD starts airing in the fall. We'll get more heroes and villains which will make the world seem bigger, which is a great thing. However, the reason this keeps getting brought up is because no matter how big and comprehensive they make the MCU, it will continue to have a large hole in it without Spidey (Wolverine less so). And here is the thing about Spidey, the current iteration of Spider-Man fits pretty well into the MCU. If some agreement could be reached to reference him, Spider-Man could continue to have his own adventures apart from The Avengers.

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:36 AM   #420
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I think we are going to see a pretty quick expansion of the MCU when SHIELD starts airing in the fall. We'll get more heroes and villains which will make the world seem bigger, which is a great thing. However, the reason this keeps getting brought up is because no matter how big and comprehensive they make the MCU, it will continue to have a large hole in it without Spidey (Wolverine less so). And here is the thing about Spidey, the current iteration of Spider-Man fits pretty well into the MCU. If some agreement could be reached to reference him, Spider-Man could continue to have his own adventures apart from The Avengers.
References are doable. Appearances are less so.

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Old 01-22-2013, 10:29 AM   #421
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Default Re: Changing the roster for Avengers 2?

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I don't think the majority of people here have problems with the idea of bringing Spidey or the X-Men into the MCU--but I think it's useless to talk about it until the rights revert. To me, it's not a story/continuity issue--it's a legal/financial one.
At least somebody gets it.

Not only that, but you'd have to get two studios to agree 100% on "how" the character will be used. Sony is not going to want to lend out Spiderman to get 2 seconds of face time. He's one of their lead properties and will in all likelihood want that kind of recognition for him in an Avengers film.

Marvel Films just put out a $1.5 billion behemeth so they don't really gain anything from borrowing Spidey from Sony other than to appease the most stubborn/hardcore comic book fanboys. That's just the truth of it.

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Old 01-22-2013, 12:49 PM   #422
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At least somebody gets it.

Not only that, but you'd have to get two studios to agree 100% on "how" the character will be used. Sony is not going to want to lend out Spiderman to get 2 seconds of face time. He's one of their lead properties and will in all likelihood want that kind of recognition for him in an Avengers film.

Marvel Films just put out a $1.5 billion behemeth so they don't really gain anything from borrowing Spidey from Sony other than to appease the most stubborn/hardcore comic book fanboys. That's just the truth of it.
Actually, 2 seconds of face-time might be more feasible than a full-on role from a contractual standpoint.

The question I wish someone would ask and get answered is what the situation is with the live-action television rights for the characters not fully owned by Marvel. We know that all animation rights have reverted (now, to get rid of Jeph Loeb...), but I don't know if that equates to the live-action TV at all. If so, the S.H.I.E.L.D. series could totally be a hub for any and all references to anything in the Marvel universe. Something tells me the live action TV rights are tied with the movie rights.

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Old 01-22-2013, 02:33 PM   #423
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At least somebody gets it.

Not only that, but you'd have to get two studios to agree 100% on "how" the character will be used. Sony is not going to want to lend out Spiderman to get 2 seconds of face time. He's one of their lead properties and will in all likelihood want that kind of recognition for him in an Avengers film.

Marvel Films just put out a $1.5 billion behemeth so they don't really gain anything from borrowing Spidey from Sony other than to appease the most stubborn/hardcore comic book fanboys. That's just the truth of it.
I agree with everything you said but... couldn't all that change if the Justice League movie turns out to be extremely successful? Suddenly we would have a situation where DC puts their two most valuable players - Superman and Batman) - in one movie and wins. And Marvel doesn't.

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Old 01-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #424
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I agree with everything you said but... couldn't all that change if the Justice League movie turns out to be extremely successful? Suddenly we would have a situation where DC puts their two most valuable players - Superman and Batman) - in one movie and wins. And Marvel doesn't.
It's not that simple with Wolverine and Spider-Man. I really wish people understood how licenses work.

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Old 01-22-2013, 03:00 PM   #425
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It's not that simple with Wolverine and Spider-Man. I really wish people understood how licenses work.
I wasn't referring to the licences issue. I was referring to "they don't really gain anything from borrowing Spidey ".

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