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Old 01-01-2013, 06:37 PM   #426
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Jack nailed THAT version of the Joker. The goofy, cartoony, Tim Burton Joker. But the essence of the CHARACTER of the Joker, Heath's version was MUCH closer and truer.

And honestly, as much as I love what Hamill has done for the character, I prefer Ledger's because it touched more into the "real world" psyche of the character. If someone like the Joker did exist in our society, I think he would be much closer, personality-wise and from a mental aspect, to Ledger's than the animated versions or Jack's version.

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Old 01-23-2013, 01:46 PM   #427
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by Brain Damage View Post
The irony in this statement is literally making my brain hurt.
i see the same irony in this post.

Heath Ledger did alright as a token psycho. But, that's just it. He could have been ANY psycho. He wasn't the Joker. Why? Did he pull outrageously over-the-top scams whilst laughing maniacally? Nearly, but no. Jack Nicholson was the Joker. Cesar Romero was the Joker, even Mark Hamill was the Joker,but for my money, Jack Nicholson was THE Joker. funny that people will talk smack like "jack was cartoony". of course its funny because these characters are based on cartoons. so what the point there trying to make is beyond me. cartoonish characters should be played cartoonish by actors, thats how i look at it. plus its WAY more fun to watch then some douche licking his lips while giving longwinded monologues about....well i dont know what. i never "got" what ledger was trying to say. somethin about chaos and upsetting order? uh huh. jack did all this without giving stupid speeches. he was a man of action not words. nolans batmans are way too wordy for me.


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Old 01-23-2013, 01:52 PM   #428
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

My ideal Joker is The Killing Joke/The Man Who Laughs, and IMO Ledger was much closer to that than Nicholson.

I wasn't impressed with Nicholson's Joker and to me a lot of it felt like Nicholson playing a more over-the-top version of Nicholson with makeup on.

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Old 01-23-2013, 02:17 PM   #429
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

I like Nicholson's Joker. He played up being a sinister narcissistic villain quite well, and Nicholson clearly had a lot of fun in the role. I have to disagree with those who say he wasn't really "the Joker"... he did a great job with the interpretation of the character that they were going for.

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Old 01-23-2013, 02:36 PM   #430
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

I will say this: Nicholson's Joker scared me as a kid. Ledger's Joker scared me as an adult.

Both have their place.

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Old 01-23-2013, 02:53 PM   #431
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

And Hamill's Joker scares me as both a kid and an adult. And makes me laugh as well.

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Old 01-23-2013, 05:10 PM   #432
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

^ bingo. they were both great in their own right. Ledger's Joker was believable, you could see him in the real world, and again, I stress, for me, that is not okay. I don't want to see comic book characters interpreted in a realistic real world type story, they are comic book characters, they don't have to be believable

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Old 01-23-2013, 05:12 PM   #433
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

So because you couldn't imagine say Arnie's Mr. Freeze in the real world, that in your eyes would make him a better villain?

Nicholson was a fun Joker, but with the Prince music, the obsession with art work, and all the psycho love sick stalking of Vicki Vale, not to mention being the killer of Batman's parents, all tainted his version of the Joker for me. I liked him, but he wasn't scary for me, he only wanted to kill Batman because Batman dropped him in the chemicals. It wasn't a very interesting Batman/Joker feud.

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Old 01-23-2013, 06:21 PM   #434
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

I honestly never cared for Nicholson's Joker. A portly and clearly much older version of the joker was never something I associated with the clown prince of crime. The killing of wayne's parents also left a bad taste in my mouth as well. I thought Heath's performance definately gave the character a 'rock star' pressence that he deserved. I will say as a kid though, I enjoyed Ceasar Romero

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:21 PM   #435
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

As a kid, I appreciated the concept, but even at that age I was distracted by how it was essentially just an aging Jack Nicholson (starting to grow a bit of a belly) being pretty much himself.

To his credit, his spontaneous and chilling laughter freaked me out, and I loved that. I also loved the sort of disapproving quiet glares he would pass around. And the bit where he's just a silhouette with that classic hat, walking up from the shadows and speaking really creepily.

Jack was good in a lot of ways, and meh in other ways. I try to focus on the things I liked about him, but ultimately think Heath is revolutionary by comparison.

For the record, I liked the Prince stuff. Would I have liked it in Nolan's interpretation? Hell no, completely ill-fit. (Although I love how Heath's Joker quotes Frank Sinatra...) Burton sold me on it though, with his approach to the atmosphere and everything. It was a sinister, uneasy kind of silliness that I found appropriate. Especially at the parade.

I expect to be alone on that one.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:31 PM   #436
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
he only wanted to kill Batman because Batman dropped him in the chemicals. It wasn't a very interesting Batman/Joker feud.
Yeah, I always had a bit of trouble with the writing side of his character. The motivation wasn't very gripping for me. I know he was resentful towards Batman, but was it really about dropping him into the chem vat? It seemed more like it was about Batman thwarting his plots.

It also seemed to be a spotlight jealousy thing, like he was extremely vain. Wanted people to gossip and ooh and aah over him like they did Batman.

"This town needs an enema!"

Other than that, he was just evil because he was crazy and a mobster, which is all that was really necessary to sell an audience on a supervillain at the time. I think the sense of him being loud, homicidal, artsy nuts against Batman's quiet, calm, vengeful nuts enamored a lot of people into giving the interpretation of the character a lot of credit that, by today's standards, it doesn't deserve anymore.

It was a stepping stone for comic movies at the time though. I try to keep that perspective in mind when I rewatch it.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:38 PM   #437
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Joker to Bob: "Follow that reporter, Knox, and take your camera. See what he knows about this Batman"

That was long before that enema line. He also didn't get to share a scene with Batman as the Joker until the end (not counting the 5 second scene where Batman swooped in and grabbed Vicki and then left). It was just Batman beating him up because he killed his parents.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:48 PM   #438
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Joker to Bob: "Follow that reporter, Knox, and take your camera. See what he knows about this Batman"

That was long before that enema line.
Are you saying he was jealous of Batman before he became the Joker?

I always took that bit as 'He's a gangster, there's a vigilante with a growing reputation, better get some intel and be careful'.

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He also didn't get to share a scene with Batman as the Joker until the end (not counting the 5 second scene where Batman swooped in and grabbed Vicki and then left). It was just Batman beating him up because he killed his parents.
True. There were confrontations outside of that though. Batman vs Jack obviously, and then Bruce Wayne vs Joker (when he's trying to tell Vicki he's Batman and they get interrupted, then Bruce gets shot).

Dunno the guidelines as to whether or not those should 'count', but it did ensure the characters were involved with each other throughout the film.

Speaking of which, another one of Joker's motivations in the film became getting Vicki. I don't recall that there was any jealousy of Bruce involved with this, but it became a damsel in distress thing. Whether or not that's bad is up to the viewer.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:57 PM   #439
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

No, I'm saying he was after Batman because he dropped him in the chemicals. Sure he may have been annoyed that Batman later stole some of his press, but he wasn't after Batman for that. It was for what he did to him in Axis.

Batman had not been a threat to the mob. Even Grissom never mentioned him. It was Harvey Dent that had them worried. "If he ties us in with Axis Chemicals we're dead and buried. We should move immediately". "Harvey Dent has been sniffing around one of our front companies" etc.

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Old 01-23-2013, 11:18 PM   #440
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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No, I'm saying he was after Batman because he dropped him in the chemicals. Sure he may have been annoyed that Batman later stole some of his press, but he wasn't after Batman for that. It was for what he did to him in Axis.
Was the quote you gave me after Axis? I was thinking of the scene right before Axis when you posted that, but I may have mixed them up. It's been a while.

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Old 01-23-2013, 11:19 PM   #441
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Yeah that quote was after the Axis scene. He is the Joker now when he says that. It's the scene where Joker kills one of the mob guys with the hand buzzer.

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Old 01-23-2013, 11:39 PM   #442
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

A few things about Jack's Joker that really freaked me out as a kid...and when I say kid, I really mean the first time I saw Batman 89 which is like 3, 4 years old.

- "Mirror!"
- Joker's introduction scene with Grissom
- "Boo!"
- The image of Jack's grin frozen on the Bat-computer monitors
- The image of him lying dead on the pavement with the creepy laugh box.

Ledger is much, much closer to the ideal Joker that's formed in my head over the years, but I don't really want to diss Jack just to praise Heath. Because if I'm being completely honest, Jack's Joker burned the idea into my head that this guy was a nightmarish clown who killed people for fun, probably before I was even aware of the existence of comic books. He gave me the creeps and made me desperate to see Batman to take him down. That's why I'll always have a soft spot for Burton's films. The Animated Series opened me up to the larger world of Batman, but his movies are what made me a fan in the first place.

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Old 01-24-2013, 05:51 AM   #443
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
A few things about Jack's Joker that really freaked me out as a kid...and when I say kid, I really mean the first time I saw Batman 89 which is like 3, 4 years old.

- "Mirror!"
- The image of him lying dead on the pavement with the creepy laugh box.
These two, and the laugh he does after seeing his reflection. omg.

Also, for some reason, when I was a kid I was really put off-ease by the scene with the mimes. Something about the way he looked - actually, you know what, it was probably the way he impaled a dude's throat with a feather pen..... (That's how I learned what a quill even was.)

Quote:
Ledger is much, much closer to the ideal Joker that's formed in my head over the years, but I don't really want to diss Jack just to praise Heath. Because if I'm being completely honest, Jack's Joker burned the idea into my head that this guy was a nightmarish clown who killed people for fun, probably before I was even aware of the existence of comic books. He gave me the creeps and made me desperate to see Batman to take him down. That's why I'll always have a soft spot for Burton's films. The Animated Series opened me up to the larger world of Batman, but his movies are what made me a fan in the first place.
You've, again, perfectly explained my perspective as well.

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Old 01-31-2013, 10:10 PM   #444
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

I think that most of the people who loved Nicholson's take on the Joker are seeing it through the prism of nostalgia. They saw the movie as a kid and it taints their judgement imo.
Now if you take a step back, you see that it really is just an amped up version of Romero's Joker. There is nothing sincere, special, rare or even really that interesting about it.
And I'm a huge Nicholson fan.
I'll say it again Jack Torrance was a much better Joker than Jack Napier.

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Old 01-31-2013, 11:30 PM   #445
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Heath simply sticking his head out of the cop car and shaking it like a mad dog is more powerful and more Joker-like than anything done by Nicholson in B89.

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Old 02-02-2013, 04:00 AM   #446
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Here's the thing when they cast nicholson as the joker. They pictured him from his days as this:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:



But by the time they cast him he was more like this




He was a few years past his prime as for when he could have made a great joker. By that point he was mostly just playing himself because that's what people expected. A younger fresher Jack would have been great and could have really given heath a run.

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Old 02-02-2013, 05:45 AM   #447
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Yeah. Younger actors are better suited at playing characters that stands for anarchy, lawlessness, etc.

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Old 02-02-2013, 08:16 AM   #448
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Well, this Joker wasn't an agent of chaos. He was a seasoned mobster waiting for his chance to become boss of the Grissom crew. I say Nicholson was a good choice, especially given his previous work. It's just that his performance as the Joker wasn't as good as, say, McMurphy or Torrance.

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Old 02-02-2013, 08:32 AM   #449
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Fair point.

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Old 02-05-2013, 12:38 PM   #450
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Malone View Post
Here's the thing when they cast nicholson as the joker. They pictured him from his days as this:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:



But by the time they cast him he was more like this




He was a few years past his prime as for when he could have made a great joker. By that point he was mostly just playing himself because that's what people expected. A younger fresher Jack would have been great and could have really given heath a run.
Got to agree with this. It's too bad!

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