Webbing formula - Part 1

[TheAmazingSpide]

okay. So I know this is probably WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY ahead of now, but I was thinking, what if we had pressurized chemicals in liquid state inside of the fluid cartridge that reacted with CO2 in the air to produce the webbing substance, and the heat of the reaction might be enough to not require a heat source for dry spinning (other than the heat caused by the chemical reaction, and assuming that it gives off heat), and possibly could power a thermocoil that could turn a very small fan that could keep the air circulating so that the chemical reaction continues, assuming that the reaction takes long enough to where in wouldn't instantly webbify your entire cartridge. So anyway, this will probably be way in the future, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Yours truly,
Me

[Wadaltmon]

Originally Posted by TheAmazingSpide

okay. So I know this is probably WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY ahead of now, but I was thinking, what if we had pressurized chemicals in liquid state inside of the fluid cartridge that reacted with CO2 in the air to produce the webbing substance, and the heat of the reaction might be enough to not require a heat source for dry spinning (other than the heat caused by the chemical reaction, and assuming that it gives off heat), and possibly could power a thermocoil that could turn a very small fan that could keep the air circulating so that the chemical reaction continues, assuming that the reaction takes long enough to where in wouldn't instantly webbify your entire cartridge. So anyway, this will probably be way in the future, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Yours truly,
Me

I doubt the heat of the reaction (unless you're speaking of something like a decomposition, which obviously this isn't, since CO2 is causing a composition reaction) would be enough to keep the fan spinning by shear heat convection. Also, there wouldn't even need to be a fan if the formula could simply react with CO2 to produce the web.

[TheAmazingSpide]

Originally Posted by Wadaltmon

I doubt the heat of the reaction (unless you're speaking of something like a decomposition, which obviously this isn't, since CO2 is causing a composition reaction) would be enough to keep the fan spinning by shear heat convection. Also, there wouldn't even need to be a fan if the formula could simply react with CO2 to produce the web.

Oh... I just assumed that a fan would be needed to circulate the air to keep the CO2 in good supply, and the fan would be powered by a thermocoil, which refers to a machine that generates electricity using thermal energy, with two ends of a wire in two different temperatures(not heat covection).

[Wadaltmon]

Originally Posted by TheAmazingSpide

Oh... I just assumed that a fan would be needed to circulate the air to keep the CO2 in good supply, and the fan would be powered by a thermocoil, which refers to a machine that generates electricity using thermal energy, with two ends of a wire in two different temperatures(not heat covection).

Well, if you're using a pressurized CO2 source, the sheer pressure will push out the CO2. But otherwise, your idea sounds plausible. The fact is I have no idea how we could fit all that on our wrist.

[spidey44]

I think those are called thermocouples. I'm not sure how much heat is needed to generate a significant voltage.

[TheAmazingSpide]

The fan would be small and low-voltage. It would probably end up looking like the shooter in the amazing Spider-man movie. and I was thinking, more web might be able to be held if the web fluid itself was pressurized in the cartridge somehow, using a pump. Kind of like what would happen if you held a bicycle pump in the fluid while you were pumping, therefore storing the maximum amount of fluid possible and possibly eliminating the need of a CO2 cartridge at the same time, thereby allowing the shooter to be more compact.

[spidey44]

You would lose a lot of the pressure after the first couple shots.

[spidey44]

You should use a combination of both. Compress the fluid in then add the propellant.

[TheAmazingSpide]

yeah... I think a combination would work better. And yeah, they are thermocouples(oops...)

[Krinkleneck]

So, what have I missed since I was gone?

[Wadaltmon]

Quite a bit. You've missed the ending of SymbioteHost's shooter he made, White_Widow left, and I finished my shooter. That's all I can think of right now, at any rate.

[Spectacular23]

I've been really M.I.A with the birth of my baby girl just almost 2 weeks ago. 1/08/2013. Sorry I been gone a while I've been tending to my wife to be for the last 9 month..... Oh the horror! But I have some free time for now so I will be in and out. So, Wadaltmon, congrats on your shooter I can't wait to see it. Do you have any pics? Due to this is a webbing formula page how is the web fluid formula coming along? I was thinking a lot of the aspect they used in the movie is the same concept a lot of R&D communities especially in bio-technology are attempting now. It just that the material isn't exactly market material...... Yet

[Wadaltmon]

Congratulations, man! ^^
And yeah, I do have pictures. I will attempt to upload them later today. I got a new computer so uploading should be a snap.
Formula has been going okay. Haven't gotten a lot of chances to test, though.
Also, what R&D communities are you talking about? I'd like to look into that. Can you provide links?

[Spectacular23]

Originally Posted by Wadaltmon

Congratulations, man! ^^
And yeah, I do have pictures. I will attempt to upload them later today. I got a new computer so uploading should be a snap.
Formula has been going okay. Haven't gotten a lot of chances to test, though.
Also, what R&D communities are you talking about? I'd like to look into that. Can you provide links?

Appreciated I'm gracefully blessed with her. I will provide links by the end of the week. It's a few.

[JMA610]

Hey, congrats Spectacular23! All the best to you and your new daughter . I also apologise for being m.i.a. for a bit. Right now I have mid terms and they are extremely time consuming. But I have been putting time in regularly. In fact, as soon as I fix a slight problem with my release valve, I can start testing it's pressure boundaries and how water shoots out before I make a fluid. Wadaltmon, how exactly did you tackle your release valve/spinneret again? That's really the only thing keeping me from finishing the prototype. I can try to put up some sketches maybe saturday after all of my exams are over. Also, assuming that I did as well as I think I did on my chem. final, I have a pretty good understanding now of how the formula has to be and what it can look like drawn on paper. Are there any special rules for drawing bonding diagrams for polymers wadaltmon? I have a general idea, but its still a little ahead of what I'm learning. Thanks!

[Wadaltmon]

Glad to see you back JMA610. I'll answer your questions in the web shooter shop class thread. Don't wanna get off topic
But, my formula, I think, is finally finished. i got a video, but can't upload it. I'll try presently to upload it.

[Wadaltmon]

Originally Posted by JMA610

I can try to put up some sketches maybe saturday after all of my exams are over. Also, assuming that I did as well as I think I did on my chem. final, I have a pretty good understanding now of how the formula has to be and what it can look like drawn on paper. Are there any special rules for drawing bonding diagrams for polymers wadaltmon? I have a general idea, but its still a little ahead of what I'm learning. Thanks!

I know what you mean about the semester final exams. Bleh. I have my AP Chem final tomorrow, as well as Weight Training (meaning I show up and get an A ). By the way, if you have the chance to take AP Chem, thinking it will help with the web shooter, don't. It hasn't helped so far, I don't think it will except a little bit with an organic unit at the end.

How polymers are drawn? Depends on if you have ions in your formula, how many monomers you have, if it is going to be considered organic, if any of the elements used can be hypervalent, etc. If you have ions, just make sure to put the appropriate amount of electrons on the central atom in the covalent bond. And remember, monomers can bond separately if their effective nuclear charge is not balanced (all 0s) per bond site atom. Organics, nothing special really with those... just a lot of carbon bonding to stuff, but carbon can bond in a hexagonal or pentagonal pattern. Look up the Lewis structure for caffeine, you'll see what I mean. And remember, atoms can be hypervalent if they are in group 3 or later of the periodic table.

[JMA610]

Originally Posted by Wadaltmon

I know what you mean about the semester final exams. Bleh. I have my AP Chem final tomorrow, as well as Weight Training (meaning I show up and get an A ). By the way, if you have the chance to take AP Chem, thinking it will help with the web shooter, don't. It hasn't helped so far, I don't think it will except a little bit with an organic unit at the end.

How polymers are drawn? Depends on if you have ions in your formula, how many monomers you have, if it is going to be considered organic, if any of the elements used can be hypervalent, etc. If you have ions, just make sure to put the appropriate amount of electrons on the central atom in the covalent bond. And remember, monomers can bond separately if their effective nuclear charge is not balanced (all 0s) per bond site atom. Organics, nothing special really with those... just a lot of carbon bonding to stuff, but carbon can bond in a hexagonal or pentagonal pattern. Look up the Lewis structure for caffeine, you'll see what I mean. And remember, atoms can be hypervalent if they are in group 3 or later of the periodic table.

Thanks! I'll get on that. Now, what exactly is your formula? is it a variation of one WW made up? because I was planning to start with a simple one, like the elmers glue formula, and test it to make it better. Also, I've looked into this before, but is there a legit formula for graphene? I can't find anything. Hope the exams go well (I came second in my class for the chem final, so im pretty happy about that.)

JMA610

[Wadaltmon]

Good job on the exam, JMA610! I don't know what i got yet, but the instructor says the highest score ever on this test was 63/73... I am planning to beat that
But, actually graphene isn't a compound, so it doesn't have a formula.
Carbon is the most magic element in the world. It is the basis of organic life, and can bond in more ways than any other atom. This is because of its electronegativity and the fact that it has 4 valence electrons, so none of its valence orbitals have been filled except the 2s. Graphene is just carbon forming bonds to itself, resulting in carbon nanotubes, which is the strongest substance on the planet (kind of, diamond is the hardest, but graphene can stand the most tensile force, and is more malleable than diamond).
There is a way to make graphene, for only about 40 dollars. The guys who figured this out got Nobel Prizes in science. You take pure magnesium, light it on fire, and then put it between two blocks of dry ice. Then wait, and soon you'll get out a little ball of magnesium oxide and graphene. Magnesium oxide is soluble in water, so you can dissolve the magnesium oxide in water and then extract the graphene by filtering. It's really magic.

As for my formula, I did a little write-up on it here:
http://realwebtech.webs.com/apps/blo...micro-membrane
But I might change it to include graphene, or just use graphene with it.

[JMA610]

Originally Posted by Wadaltmon

Good job on the exam, JMA610! I don't know what i got yet, but the instructor says the highest score ever on this test was 63/73... I am planning to beat that
But, actually graphene isn't a compound, so it doesn't have a formula.
Carbon is the most magic element in the world. It is the basis of organic life, and can bond in more ways than any other atom. This is because of its electronegativity and the fact that it has 4 valence electrons, so none of its valence orbitals have been filled except the 2s. Graphene is just carbon forming bonds to itself, resulting in carbon nanotubes, which is the strongest substance on the planet (kind of, diamond is the hardest, but graphene can stand the most tensile force, and is more malleable than diamond).
There is a way to make graphene, for only about 40 dollars. The guys who figured this out got Nobel Prizes in science. You take pure magnesium, light it on fire, and then put it between two blocks of dry ice. Then wait, and soon you'll get out a little ball of magnesium oxide and graphene. Magnesium oxide is soluble in water, so you can dissolve the magnesium oxide in water and then extract the graphene by filtering. It's really magic.

As for my formula, I did a little write-up on it here:
http://realwebtech.webs.com/apps/blo...micro-membrane
But I might change it to include graphene, or just use graphene with it.

Thanks! And good luck with yours! I have looked at some articles on graphene and essentially I think it comes down to sheets a few atoms thick of hexagonal carbon molecules bonded to each other, like you said. And I hyave heard of that experiment. A while back during an experiment in the chem lab with Mg & HCl I swiped like 15 small pieces of the Mg we were using. Unfortunately it didnt light, and my chem teacher said that it wouldnt be the best quality for that experiment. So now I've just got to find some for cheap. And an interesting thing about MgO= not only does it have expansive properties (ie the surfactant that WW incorporated into his fluid) but it is also incredibly strong (although it would merely be a reinforcement to the graphene). By using this, especially the graphene, since it will bond with virtually anything, WW stated that it would be vital to making the fluid molecules as large and as compatible as we wanted. I'll look into the bonding diagrams for the elements of your formula (no pun intended) and post them up here so we can maybe get a visual for what we are dealing with. I'm more of a visual learner, so if I'm the only one who wants the diagrams up, I'll just take a gander myself.

[Wadaltmon]

I don't know if you'll find much on bonding diagrams. Remember, not everything is a compound. Some things are solutions of mixtures, so you may want to simply look into mixture compositions. And yeah, by all means, post that stuff here.
Oh and another thing you may want to look into is buckyballs. Basically, it's just like graphene, only instead of hexagonal patterns, it has pentagonal and hexagonal.
Oh, and remember your Van der Waals corrections to ideal gasses!

[goku9600]

if only crossing dna was cheap we would all have web shooters by now instead of the webbing formulas we have now we would be using biocable instead

[Wadaltmon]

For that matter, if only it wasn't so highly experimental!

[goku9600]

Originally Posted by Wadaltmon

For that matter, if only it wasn't so highly experimental!

what do you mean

[goku9600]

and you would need to combine alot of spider dna