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Old 01-22-2013, 11:13 PM   #101
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

I'm thinking Bruce was officially Batman for about a total of a year and then some. Because in TDK, it takes place about a 9 months after BB, and I know that because in the movie, Joker makes a comment to the Mob saying, "Let's wind the clocks back a year, before Batman. These cops and lawyers wouldn't dare cross you. I mean, what happened? Did ya balls drop off." And the few moments when Bruce was Batman in BB was about a month. And the events of TDK is about 2 and a half months at least. And when Bruce returns as the Batman in the beginning of TDKR, it was about a month before he was taken by Bane. So all that together, Bruce was officially Batman for a year, a month and a half.

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Old 01-23-2013, 01:58 AM   #102
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

Heh, Nolan's Batman fought crime long enough that nearby thugs fell over backwards and played dead to avoid getting a beatdown. Some reputation!

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Old 01-23-2013, 04:31 PM   #103
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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I'm thinking Bruce was officially Batman for about a total of a year and then some. Because in TDK, it takes place about a 9 months after BB, and I know that because in the movie, Joker makes a comment to the Mob saying, "Let's wind the clocks back a year, before Batman. These cops and lawyers wouldn't dare cross you. I mean, what happened? Did ya balls drop off." And the few moments when Bruce was Batman in BB was about a month. And the events of TDK is about 2 and a half months at least. And when Bruce returns as the Batman in the beginning of TDKR, it was about a month before he was taken by Bane. So all that together, Bruce was officially Batman for a year, a month and a half.
The Joker doesn't say "before Batman". He just says, "Lets wind the clocks back a year, these cops and lawyers wouldn't dare cross any of you." That scene isn't necessarily within a year of Batman emerging. It is just within a year of the mob losing control.

Also ... Falcone was the kingpin during Begins. Those mobsters emerged after Falcone, and it would've taken them some time to regain control -- and then a year passed since they lost control to Batman/Dent.

I think its about three years between BB and TDK. If its only a few months ... Gordon's kid aged awful fast.

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Old 01-23-2013, 04:51 PM   #104
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

I take back what i said previously. After some looking into and talking to one of the guys here on this forum..

Ive changed my mind, and i do believe Bruce was Batman for 3 years then he took a 8 year absence (for the first year of that 8 year break, there is a slight chance he was on and off). Then you have to add his time up of when he was Batman in TDKR.

Nolan himself states that Bruce pretty much had a 5 year plan to get Gotham to a point where it doesn't need him. He was Batman for over 3 years. Possibly a little more. Possibly 4 years if there were unconfirmed post Dark Knight sightings. But it's spread out over the course of 12 years or so.

By the end of it, Gotham has reached a point where it may not need another Batman ever again. Or for a very long time anyway. Or it may need Batman right away. That part is unknown. But it's still "the Batman". And since this thread title isn't exclusive to Bruce Wayne...you can say that Nolans Batman just keeps going until the years pile up.

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Old 01-24-2013, 02:34 AM   #105
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

why do people here want Batman to have been fighting longer?

What's wrong with him only being Batman for a year?

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Old 01-24-2013, 05:36 AM   #106
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

Personally, I don't find it impressive.

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Old 01-24-2013, 09:17 AM   #107
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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why do people here want Batman to have been fighting longer?

What's wrong with him only being Batman for a year?
There's nothing wrong. Especially the way Rises deals with the subject , and his dualism. Batman's persona in Bruce isn't reduced to fighting thugs. That's why he was Batman long enough.

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Old 01-24-2013, 10:18 AM   #108
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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The Joker doesn't say "before Batman". He just says, "Lets wind the clocks back a year, these cops and lawyers wouldn't dare cross any of you." That scene isn't necessarily within a year of Batman emerging. It is just within a year of the mob losing control.
Yeah and they started losing control when Batman emerged. Before Batman came everything was hunky dory for them.

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Also ... Falcone was the kingpin during Begins. Those mobsters emerged after Falcone, and it would've taken them some time to regain control -- and then a year passed since they lost control to Batman/Dent.
Dent said with Carmine Falcone in Arkham someone must have stepped up to run his organization. Why should that have taken so long?

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I think its about three years between BB and TDK. If its only a few months ... Gordon's kid aged awful fast.
3 years or a few months, it's the same continuity goof. He was a little crying baby in Begins, and in TDK he was about 8 years old.

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Old 01-24-2013, 03:04 PM   #109
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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why do people here want Batman to have been fighting longer?

What's wrong with him only being Batman for a year?
Because he didn't do very much, and people want room to imagine it's possible he could have had a more fleshed out career.

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Old 01-24-2013, 04:08 PM   #110
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3 years or a few months, it's the same continuity goof. He was a little crying baby in Begins, and in TDK he was about 8 years old.
The baby brings me so much trouble with my timeline. I always thought that the baby was Gordon's daughter, I didn't pay much attention to it in Begins, and since in TDK we only see little glimpses of her, seemed fair enough. But according to IMDB the girl who portrayed Gordon's daughter (Hanna Gunn) was six or seven years at the time of the filming. And seeing the scene again, it is clearly older. So it doesn't add up.

Since it's the most notorious continuity issue in the films. I'm going out on a limb and say that the Gordon's were babysitting.

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Old 01-24-2013, 05:56 PM   #111
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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I'm going out on a limb and say that the Gordon's were babysitting.
^ Win. Problem solved.

That was too good.

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Old 01-24-2013, 06:48 PM   #112
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

Or they have three kids, and one of them was out of the room at all times.

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Old 01-24-2013, 07:13 PM   #113
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

One lucky bastard didn't listen to Barbara with getting ready to leave their house at the end of TDK then, lol.

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Old 01-25-2013, 05:53 AM   #114
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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The baby brings me so much trouble with my timeline. I always thought that the baby was Gordon's daughter, I didn't pay much attention to it in Begins, and since in TDK we only see little glimpses of her, seemed fair enough. But according to IMDB the girl who portrayed Gordon's daughter (Hanna Gunn) was six or seven years at the time of the filming. And seeing the scene again, it is clearly older. So it doesn't add up.

Since it's the most notorious continuity issue in the films. I'm going out on a limb and say that the Gordon's were babysitting.
The thing is , time continuity is completely irrelevant in these movies. Nolan treats time in this series , in a very diffuse way. That's why the time elapsed between movies (and even during movies) is not detailed. Its not something that brings a point. Every sequels carries a lot of stuff from the previous movie , yet time itself is dismissed. Even the 8 years , they exist to bring something out of the character , to accentuate a trait of Bruce's persona but he doesn't try to explicitly show us that time elapsing , and how it occurred . We know time has passed , and how Bruce reacted. The movie itself show us he has been Batman long enough. If it was 1 year or 3 years between Begins , TDK , or how things really worked out after Dent's fall , that's not something the director intended to show or develop.

That's why this exercise of trying to solve the puzzle of time with bits of pieces and info in the movies , ends up being completely incomplete. Because that's how Nolan intended to treat time in these movies.

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Old 01-25-2013, 11:58 AM   #115
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

Saying time continuity is irrelevant is really making it less important than it should be, imo.

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Old 01-25-2013, 12:19 PM   #116
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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The thing is , time continuity is completely irrelevant in these movies. Nolan treats time in this series , in a very diffuse way. That's why the time elapsed between movies (and even during movies) is not detailed. Its not something that brings a point. Every sequels carries a lot of stuff from the previous movie , yet time itself is dismissed. Even the 8 years , they exist to bring something out of the character , to accentuate a trait of Bruce's persona but he doesn't try to explicitly show us that time elapsing , and how it occurred . We know time has passed , and how Bruce reacted. The movie itself show us he has been Batman long enough. If it was 1 year or 3 years between Begins , TDK , or how things really worked out after Dent's fall , that's not something the director intended to show or develop.

That's why this exercise of trying to solve the puzzle of time with bits of pieces and info in the movies , ends up being completely incomplete. Because that's how Nolan intended to treat time in these movies.
Nolan did develop events in those time intervals, and he leaves enough clues for such events and to set things up. For example on TDKR , the choice of 8 years serves to get us to that moment of Bruce's life and the consequences of his acts. But there is also state what happened in that interval. Bruce heals physically (to an extent, remember the tremendous beating he took on the previous film), the truth of Harvey Dent being uncovered leads to him being hailed as a hero and Batman as a wanted criminal, the consequential Dent Act gives the police the tools to erradicate organized crime and renders Batman without a purpose. Bruce decides to put his mind on the energy project (attracting Miranda Tate's attention), later he finds out that the project is too dangerous, that failure is the last straw and recluses himself in the mansion. That information is shown to the viewer on the context of TDKR.

Same between Begins and TDK: Batman is taking down the mob with aid of Liutenant Gordon and hunting down the remaining Arkham inmates that were set free, also giving the remaining population the antidote for the fear toxin. The Joker begins his rise to power, Harvey Dent is elected district attorney, Bruce Wayne moves to the city. Batman's actions lead the mob to the breaking point. This is shown to the viewer on the context of TDK and elaborated more on the viral marketing.

There are other details that I like too, like the reconstruction of the monorail.

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Old 01-25-2013, 12:30 PM   #117
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

The reason some of us never want Batman to quit is batman is not supposed to have a happy ending. At least not this early in his career. He's supposed to be brooding and obsessed. The characteristics of Bales Batman is not the Batman I know. Quiting, sulking, feeling sorry for himself for more than a week.

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Old 01-25-2013, 12:34 PM   #118
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The reason some of us never want Batman to quit is batman is not supposed to have a happy ending. At least not this early in his career. He's supposed to be brooding and obsessed. The characteristics of Bales Batman is not the Batman I know. Quiting, sulking, feeling sorry for himself for more than a week.
Why not? How do you define the length of a superhero career? Yes Batman broods, he is obsessed. That is on Bale's Batman. And yes, Batman has quitted on the comics, the cartoons, etc. So perhaps you can elaborate a little more.

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Old 01-25-2013, 01:10 PM   #119
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

Yah, why can't Bruce Wayne get a happy ending for once? Saying he's not meant to is just silly.

This isn't the Batman I ever thought of, but it is the kind of Batman I am pleased to have gotten from Nolan and will treasure it.

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Old 01-25-2013, 01:40 PM   #120
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One lucky bastard didn't listen to Barbara with getting ready to leave their house at the end of TDK then, lol.
They were at a sleepover.

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Old 01-25-2013, 02:37 PM   #121
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Batman has quit before but not for a stupid reason like they described and for 8 years. That's absurd. He is rewarded for doing nothing for 8 years by getting a happy ending. No I don't like it. If he was proactive and still being Batman I might be a little more accepting to him having a happy ending. But he didn't really deserve one. Now, real Batman also should and would not accept a happy ending. That's part of why people love him. He refuses to take the easy route. He would rather die helping as much as he can.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:08 PM   #122
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Batman has quit before but not for a stupid reason like they described and for 8 years. That's absurd. He is rewarded for doing nothing for 8 years by getting a happy ending. No I don't like it. If he was proactive and still being Batman I might be a little more accepting to him having a happy ending. But he didn't really deserve one. Now, real Batman also should and would not accept a happy ending. That's part of why people love him. He refuses to take the easy route. He would rather die helping as much as he can.
Cuz of course living a miserable life for 30 years, with a torn up body, and let's not forget the amount of criminals he got off the streets AND SAVING AN ENTIRE CITY FROM AN ATOM BOMB. Yeah..he was rewarded for nothing...and didnt deserve a happy ending...

So being happy is always the easy way out? Wow, ive heard it all. The easy way out would have been to stay in the pit. Or to live in some country after escaping the pit instead of coming back to save the city. Yeaaaah...Bruce REAAAALLY didnt deserve it.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:15 PM   #123
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If Batman never retired and was on top of his game the league would have never even been able to sneak in an atom bomb and infiltrate gotham.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:25 PM   #124
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Batman has quit before but not for a stupid reason like they described and for 8 years. That's absurd. He is rewarded for doing nothing for 8 years by getting a happy ending. No I don't like it. If he was proactive and still being Batman I might be a little more accepting to him having a happy ending. But he didn't really deserve one. Now, real Batman also should and would not accept a happy ending. That's part of why people love him. He refuses to take the easy route. He would rather die helping as much as he can.

Let's see, just as an example, on The Dark Knight Returns it's implied that he quit because of the death of Jason Todd. That's a good enough reason to quit, someone that was under his care died, and he felt guilty about it. On Batman Beyond, in the first episode "Rebirth Part I" the reason was physical, he was unable to keep going due to old age. Now let's analyze the background of the Nolan Bat-Films. Bruce does not want to be Batman forever. The ambitions of Bruce are aimed a little higher, a little bigger. On Gotham things are different, it's a unique case in which corruption and crime runs rampant on the city, and the police can't do a thing to stop it, in fact it's part of the problem. The system is broken. A fascinating aspect is that Batman is born out of a need. This is taking directly from Frank Miller's Year One. If the police and the government did their job as they should, there would be no need for Batman.

So Bruce sets his aims on eradicating the root of the problem. It's not about common muggins and robberies. It's the root that causes this problem. In Begins is reflected in the form of Joe Chill. He is the byproduct of the actions of the organized crime and the corruption has done to the city. Creating poverty and hunger. This is also taking from a comic book, The Dark Knight Returns in the first part of the book, where Bruce comes to an understanding of Joe Chills actions and the murder of his parents. At the same time, he wants to inspire people, to shake them out of apathy, and become a symbol for Gotham. Restore the damage, taking Gotham from the hands of crime to their people. Restoring the police, as channeled by his alliance with Jim Gordon, and moving the powerful people into action.

This works in the form of Harvey Dent. This is a man that idealizes Bruce's ambitions, a person with a face that can do things right without resorting to Batman's tactics. He sees that he is almost accomplished what he has set up to do. At the beginning of The Dark Knight we see that things have improved, criminals are scared on the streets, the mob is cornered and people have hope. We also see the unexpected consequences of Bruce's actions too. At the same time Harvey Dent rose, The Joker made his move. We see good people like the Citizens for Batman trying to do good things in the wrong way too. On the other hand, Bruce has this inherent desire for being happy, in his mind to overcome pain and move one, idealized in Rachel Dawes. This is brought upon various interpretations of Batman. See Mask of the Phantasm, where Bruce considers giving up being Batman by the return of Andrea Beaumont.

And all of this fails. The Joker does his act: kills Rachel, breaks Harvey and attempts to gain the upper hand on Gotham's soul. All of Harvey's good deeds could go into the drain if the truth of Two-Face came up to the public. Everything Bruce has done would be lost, people would lose hope. So they cover it up. It is a lie, but Bruce takes on the weight of it, taking the blame, becoming the villian, being hunted.

So at the beginning of Rises, we see a shattered man. He cannot continue being Batman. There is no need. The Dent Act sweep off the remains of the organized crime. If he would make an apparition as Batman for a minor thing, he would be hunted, bringing the police after him, and giving Gordon more pain to deal. (And this happens on Rises) There is no reason powerful enough to go on. As Bruce Wayne he has also lost so many. His project for giving the people of Gotham free clean energy has gone awry. Something that could potentially improve the quality of life of the Gothamites, and namely something he could do as a Wayne, has deemed to be potentially dangerous and is shut down, lossing a lot of money of his company in the way. He only awaits for death.

When Bane and the League of Shadows makes it's apparition, Bruce is mentally and physically broken. He needs to overcome pain and gain a new found respect for his own life. The film takes other points, like Blake being an embodiment for what Bruce idealized on Harvey Dent, albeit in a different manner. Inspiring the people to defend themselves, represented by Gotham's police. Changing Selina's views on the world. And finally, after there is no more to give, he has to make a choice.

So the movie shifts its focus. It's not about saving Gotham, we kinda know that Batman will save it. It's about Bruce saving himself. And because of the journey of this man (as stated somewhat briefly before), we want him to succeed.

Also worth nothing, we do not see Bruce being "happy go-lucky", we see a mature Bruce giving life another chance, a beginning of a new journey.

In my book, he earned this in spades.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:30 PM   #125
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If Batman never retired and was on top of his game the league would have never even been able to sneak in an atom bomb and infiltrate gotham.
They didn't sneak the atom bomb. The atom bomb was always there. It was Bruce's energy source for Gotham.

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