The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Part 1

[jaqua99]

not that. Why can't thanos be the big bad in phase 2..but doesn't get defeated?

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

not that. Why can't thanos be the big bad in phase 2..but doesn't get defeated?

Because Thanos is still an x factor, an unknown variable at this point. *If* he becomes a hugely popular villain, like Loki has become, then yeah, I could see Marvel bringing him back again for Phase III. But let's cross each bridge as we come to it. At this point, we don't know how Thanos will be received by audiences at all, so it would be pretty suicidal to start hinging *future* projects on a villain who fans might or might not want to see more of.

[Guerrilla]

Woohoo! Doctor Strange has been confirmed for Phase 3!!

[Figs]

Anyone else not excited over the Masters of Evil being the possible threat in the sequel?

I just don't see the appeal, a lot of them seem like fairly lame characters.

[Crimson King]

Picking out seven beats from an outline is very easy. It's an outline, presumably organized into set pieces and...beats.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Because Thanos is still an x factor, an unknown variable at this point. *If* he becomes a hugely popular villain, like Loki has become, then yeah, I could see Marvel bringing him back again for Phase III. But let's cross each bridge as we come to it. At this point, we don't know how Thanos will be received by audiences at all, so it would be pretty suicidal to start hinging *future* projects on a villain who fans might or might not want to see more of.

edit: screwed up quoting, put it in my next post

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Because Thanos is still an x factor, an unknown variable at this point. *If* he becomes a hugely popular villain, like Loki has become, then yeah, I could see Marvel bringing him back again for Phase III. But let's cross each bridge as we come to it. At this point, we don't know how Thanos will be received by audiences at all, so it would be pretty suicidal to start hinging *future* projects on a villain who fans might or might not want to see more of.

I know, it's all depending on how he is recieved, but I really wouldn't be surprised if they have plans on using Thanos in phase 2, and in phase 3.

however, if they have plans for him, to go that far, that doesn't mean that they won't get dropped, like you said, it depends on how people react. I wouldn't be surpised if they are setting things up to go in a fwe different directions, based on how fans take to the characters

Originally Posted by Figs

Anyone else not excited over the Masters of Evil being the possible threat in the sequel?

I just don't see the appeal, a lot of them seem like fairly lame characters.

god knows what marvel is doing. MoE may not be the MAIN villains, but there clearly are a lot of villain being introduced, maybe they will be what gets the earth bound avengers together, something minor, thhen thanos attacks

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Figs

Anyone else not excited over the Masters of Evil being the possible threat in the sequel?

I just don't see the appeal, a lot of them seem like fairly lame characters.

That's another reason why I don't see MoE entering the fray anytime soon. Until Marvel starts making more compelling villains (Loki notwithstanding), there's not going to be a lot of fan demand to start seeing these pretty lame and poorly received bad guys team up to avenge themselves against the, uh, Avengers. "Yay, Whiplash and Arnim Zola and, and, freaky big-headed guy who was the coked-up scientist in TIH, and, and, Ironmonger and, and.....you know what? Forget it"

Originally Posted by Crimson King

Picking out seven beats from an outline is very easy. It's an outline, presumably organized into set pieces and...beats.

And again I ask: why would Feige come up with such a specific number in an offhand remark, and why would he try to claim individual plot points as the selling point? Again, I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying the biggest selling point of Avengers (as both a comic and a movie) was the characters. What fans and general audiences alike wanted to see was a whole bunch of superheroes teaming up. That's what they'll look for again in Avengers 2.

[Dark Raven]

If Falcon is the 7th member, you would've thought that Whedon would've liked to have had another female in there, since that is his speciality. Just having Scarlett seems a bit lacking in that department. It's not like Maria Hill had much to do.

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

And again I ask: why would Feige come up with such a specific number in an offhand remark, and why would he try to claim individual plot points as the selling point? Again, I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying the biggest selling point of Avengers (as both a comic and a movie) was the characters. What fans and general audiences alike wanted to see was a whole bunch of superheroes teaming up. That's what they'll look for again in Avengers 2.

Well, of course the characters are the reason I'll see it as well, but the comment didn't strike me as being aimed at the characters. He's way too cagey to be that obvious, but we'll never know for sure what he meant. And really, who cares? I'm guessing that there will be seven great characters and seven great moments (at least). Everybody wins!

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by Dark Raven

If Falcon is the 7th member, you would've thought that Whedon would've liked to have had another female in there, since that is his speciality. Just having Scarlett seems a bit lacking in that department. It's not like Maria Hill had much to do.

I don't think Falcon is the new member. We've discussed this before on SHH, but second-stringers don't belong on the big movie team just yet. For now, I think they'll keep it to the major players.

(and Sam, before you repeat your argument to me, I KNOW that Falcon is featured in some current Avengers stuff. I still don't think that matters )

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Crimson King

I don't think Falcon is the new member. We've discussed this before on SHH, but second-stringers don't belong on the big movie team just yet. For now, I think they'll keep it to the major players.

(and Sam, before you repeat your argument to me, I KNOW that Falcon is featured in some current Avengers stuff. I still don't think that matters )

Fair enough; but who do *you* think, realistically, would be added to the Avengers 2 roster then, if any? I think the fact that Feige officially stated that Ant-Man is the first Phase III film now severely rules out a ton of Pym-mythos Avengers joining in this phase (Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Vision, Jocasta); and I'm sure you're even more reluctant to add War Machine to the roster than you are Falcon. Carol Danvers doesn't seem to be on Marvel's movie radar at all yet; and Black Panther is a Phase III addition, at the earliest.

[herolee10]

With Ant-Man being a huge part of Phase 3; at least, that's the impression that I got from Feige's interview, I wonder if that means that we should expect to see Ultron as the big bad for Avengers 3; thus making Thanos a good solid bet towards being the big bad for Phase 2.

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by Crimson King

I don't think Falcon is the new member. We've discussed this before on SHH, but second-stringers don't belong on the big movie team just yet. For now, I think they'll keep it to the major players.

(and Sam, before you repeat your argument to me, I KNOW that Falcon is featured in some current Avengers stuff. I still don't think that matters )

But who is to say that movie Falcon will be a second stringer. Are movie Black Widow and Hawkeye such A-listers? They certainly aren't really A-listers in the comics on the level of Iron Man, Cap, Thor and Hulk, yet they are in the movie. Since Anthony Mackie is playing Falcon in Cap 2, what makes him really any different to BW appearing in Iron Man 2, or Hawkeye's small cameo in Thor? As far as the general audience will perceive him, he could easily be just as big a name as those 2.

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Fair enough; but who do *you* think, realistically, would be added to the Avengers 2 roster then, if any? I think the fact that Feige officially stated that Ant-Man is the first Phase III film now severely rules out a ton of Pym-mythos Avengers joining in this phase (Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Vision, Jocasta); and I'm sure you're even more reluctant to add War Machine to the roster than you are Falcon. Carol Danvers doesn't seem to be on Marvel's movie radar at all yet; and Black Panther is a Phase III addition, at the earliest.

Whedon has already gone on record as saying that he wants a female addition to Avengers. I think Ms. Marvel is the most likely candidate, and the S.H.I.E.L.D. show is the perfect way to introduce her. Since he has creative input, he can handle weaving her into the overall Avengers arc exactly how he wants to.

Think about it: the Mar-Vell/Danvers storyline is a natural fit for something like the S.H.I.E.L.D. series. They said it will reference Marvel heroes, but maybe not feature them, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that they could be investigating some of the threats Fury alluded to in Avengers, and one of those threats could be the Kree. Mar-Vell could be a plant in S.H.I.E.L.D., he interacts with Danvers...stuff happens...and whammo! Ms. Marvel is available for A2.

Originally Posted by Dark Raven

But who is to say that movie Falcon will be a second stringer. Are movie Black Widow and Hawkeye such A-listers? They certainly aren't really A-listers in the comics on the level of Iron Man, Cap, Thor and Hulk, yet they are in the movie. Since Anthony Mackie is playing Falcon in Cap 2, what makes him really any different to BW appearing in Iron Man 2, or Hawkeye's small cameo in Thor? As far as the general audience will perceive him, he could easily be just as big a name as those 2.

Black Widow and Hawkeye are not sidekicks. MCU War Machine and Falcon are pretty much the definition of one.

Planting Falcon in A2 now is to assume a huge popularity bump for that character, and they don't have a clue how much/little fans will like Mackie's performance. Seems like a risk that Marvel doesn't usually take. Hawkeye and Black Widow have more connection to the Avengers stories than War Machine and Falcon. They all have connections, of course, but BW and Hawkeye's are stronger. I don't really see it as the same thing.

[I'm Venom]

Falcon is nowhere near my top choice for new characters, he's kind of boring.

Nevermind that his inclusion in the next movies has never been mentioned before now. That said, I may be the only one, but given my dislike of Black Panther, I much prefer Falcon over him.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Crimson King

Whedon has already gone on record as saying that he wants a female addition to Avengers. I think Ms. Marvel is the most likely candidate, and the S.H.I.E.L.D. show is the perfect way to introduce her. Since he has creative input, he can handle weaving her into the overall Avengers arc exactly how he wants to.

Think about it: the Mar-Vell/Danvers storyline is a natural fit for something like the S.H.I.E.L.D. series. They said it will reference Marvel heroes, but maybe not feature them, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that they could be investigating some of the threats Fury alluded to in Avengers, and one of those threats could be the Kree. Mar-Vell could be a plant in S.H.I.E.L.D., he interacts with Danvers...stuff happens...and whammo! Ms. Marvel is available for A2.

Sounds plausible enough; but dropping a MAJOR Avenger into the middle of a show which may or may not even last past a few episodes on ABC is an extremely risky maneuver. I think Carol is more likely to show up in GOTG than SHIELD.

Black Widow and Hawkeye are not sidekicks. MCU War Machine and Falcon are pretty much the definition of one.

Planting Falcon in A2 now is to assume a huge popularity bump for that character, and they don't have a clue how much/little fans will like Mackie's performance. Seems like a risk that Marvel doesn't usually take. Hawkeye and Black Widow have more connection to the Avengers stories than War Machine and Falcon. They all have connections, of course, but BW and Hawkeye's are stronger. I don't really see it as the same thing.

Neither War Machine nor Falcon are "sidekicks" of any sort. In fact, they've fought against that label for decades. They are partners and friends of Tony and Steve, and both Tony and Steve would consider Rhodey and Sam their equals. And vice versa.

In fact, IM3 and CATWS have a great opportunity here to actually show Rhodey and Sam as their equals, and bona fide superheroes in their own right. A new generation of (movie) fandom can grow up knowing War Machine and Falcon as major Avengers and black superhero role models, instead of confining them to the realm of sidekickery that older fandom does.

[Hawkingbird]

They need a Luke Cage solo movie.

[Uncanny1]

Originally Posted by Crimson King

Black Widow and Hawkeye are not sidekicks. MCU War Machine and Falcon are pretty much the definition of one.

Planting Falcon in A2 now is to assume a huge popularity bump for that character, and they don't have a clue how much/little fans will like Mackie's performance. Seems like a risk that Marvel doesn't usually take. Hawkeye and Black Widow have more connection to the Avengers stories than War Machine and Falcon. They all have connections, of course, but BW and Hawkeye's are stronger. I don't really see it as the same thing.

In the 90's War Machine was with the Avengers West Coast & Force Works. With them in the Avengers/X-men crossover called "Bloodties" and some others.

Now the Falcon you have a point.

[Dark Raven]

But who is to say that Falcon will be Cap's sidekick in the movie? It's only in the comics he is one. He may very well be an equal partner here.

[cherokeesam]

Falcon was NOT Cap's sidekick!

Jeebuz.
You guys need to go back and read the comics. Falcon fought tooth and nail against that stereotype, and *refused* to be called a sidekick.

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Falcon was NOT Cap's sidekick!

Jeebuz.
You guys need to go back and read the comics. Falcon fought tooth and nail against that stereotype, and *refused* to be called a sidekick.

Methinks he doth protest too much

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by Figs

Anyone else not excited over the Masters of Evil being the possible threat in the sequel?

I just don't see the appeal, a lot of them seem like fairly lame characters.

If the Masters were in one of these movies I don't think you'd have to worry about the Melter or Mister Hyde being in there

[terry78]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

They need a Luke Cage solo movie.

They can't even get Black Panther off the ground. Frankly I'd like to see a tv show built around Cage, as it wouldn't require as much fx except for dudes throwing each other around and smashing **** up.

[Chris B]

I'd be surprised if Falcon was the only new addition. I think its likely he'll join, but I'd still expect to see at least one other new member, probably a female character considering its Wheadon we're talking about here.