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Old 01-26-2013, 08:23 PM   #626
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Count me in as another one who wants Jonathan Kent to live... Maybe have him pass away in a sequel, but not in the first movie.
I would love for John to live, but I'm 99.9999 % sure he is going to die in that tornado scene.

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Old 01-26-2013, 08:27 PM   #627
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:34 PM   #628
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The part about having to overcome that despite being so powerful, he can't save everyone is pretty much a part of his character to me. It's definitely gonna be there. It would be like not wanting Superman to save anyone in the last second, just cause it's so unoriginal.

Not everything has to be all out original.

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Old 01-26-2013, 08:53 PM   #629
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Not being able to save everyone definitely is a large part of what makes Superman an interesting character. Making it his father that teaches him that lesson is not a necessary part of that.

Pa Kent dying wasn't a part of the original Superman mythos, was it? I thought the first time it happened was in STM.

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Old 01-26-2013, 11:24 PM   #630
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"All these powers...and I couldn't even save him"

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Old 01-26-2013, 11:35 PM   #631
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Why does he always have to die? I like Pa Kent alive.
I think he works better dead. He should be there for the formative years and all, but when he dies, at least the way he dies in STM, it not only underlines how frail humans are, but it teaches him that even if there's nothing he can do about certain tragedies, there are others that he CAN prevent. It's the perfect trigger. It's not as defined with Superman, what with all the versions there are of the origin, but for me that's as much a seminal moment as Uncle Ben's death is for Spider-Man.

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Old 01-27-2013, 12:09 AM   #632
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I would rather Pa Kent lived or didn't die because of a dumb Tornado. What if he dies at the hands of Zod in this movie since we see the space ships outside of the farm?

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Old 01-27-2013, 12:26 AM   #633
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I would rather Pa Kent lived or didn't die because of a dumb Tornado. What if he dies at the hands of Zod in this movie since we see the space ships outside of the farm?
We see Martha walking out on the porch by herself when they arrive in the trailer. Pretty sure if Jonathan were alive, he'd be out front with a shotgun in his hand.

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Old 01-27-2013, 12:37 AM   #634
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Pa Kent is one of my favorite characters in the Superman mythos, to be honest. He was the best thing about the Smallville TV show too. That's right, even moreso than Rosenbaum's Luthor.

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Old 01-27-2013, 12:48 AM   #635
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:12 AM   #636
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We see Martha walking out on the porch by herself when they arrive in the trailer. Pretty sure if Jonathan were alive, he'd be out front with a shotgun in his hand.
It's a trailer though. You can't ever really tell anything from a trailer. Who's to say that Pa Kent wasn't killed earlier or later by Zod or Faora after trying to stand up and protect Clark for whatever reason.

I just dont see the point in killing Pa Kent. Yes, I'm sure one of you guys will come up with an explanation of how it is vital in Clark becoming Supes blah blah blah, but I still don't like it. I want Pa Kent to live a long life with Ma Kent tending to the Pa and Ma Kent farm.

However, if he does have to die, I mean absolutely has to then I want him dying heroically and not because of some dumb tornado.

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:55 AM   #637
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Is it just me or did it seem that Loeb really wanted to have Jonathan killed by the tornado the in the first part of For All Seasons, but had to conform to Byrne continuity.

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Old 01-27-2013, 05:49 AM   #638
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Not being able to save everyone definitely is a large part of what makes Superman an interesting character. Making it his father that teaches him that lesson is not a necessary part of that.

Pa Kent dying wasn't a part of the original Superman mythos, was it? I thought the first time it happened was in STM.
I think I have to agree with this. That it's not cannon and that S:TM introduced that angle. I dont think I like that angle too much either. Sounds like Spider-Man and gives the wrong motivations for Clark becoming Superman.

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Old 01-27-2013, 05:53 AM   #639
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I thought his parents were known to have both deceased in the earlier canon in the comics even before S:TM was released; with the only difference being that it was his mother who passed away first before Pa Kent did.

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Old 01-27-2013, 05:55 AM   #640
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Dont know the details about them living or dying, but I'm pretty sure Superman's never meant to be having a guilt-trip about it.

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Old 01-27-2013, 06:33 AM   #641
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Dont know the details about them living or dying, but I'm pretty sure Superman's never meant to be having a guilt-trip about it.
Oh yeah; no doubt on the guilt part. The only times that I've seen Superman guilty about his parents dying was in S:TM, the Superman Brainiac Story line where Brainiac was responsible for killing Pa Kent, and the Smallville TV Series Story line where Pa Kent's death was a result out of Clark's decisions.

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Old 01-27-2013, 07:39 AM   #642
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I do know that Pa Kent dies in the pilot of the George Reeves show... as I've just watched it.

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Old 01-27-2013, 08:44 AM   #643
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I do know that Pa Kent dies in the pilot of the George Reeves show... as I've just watched it.
Both Kents are present in the Kirk Alyn serial. But as Clark departs for Metropolis, a voice-over explains that they've passed away.

I believe this was standard/canon (nothing that STM invented) until John Byrne.

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Old 01-27-2013, 08:53 AM   #644
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Early Golden Age- Clark Kent raised in orphanage
Late Golden Age/Silver Age- Kents die of old age
Post-Crisis- Kents live, until Jonathan dies in Superman: Brainiac
DCnU- Kents die shortly before the events of Action Comic #1

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:06 AM   #645
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I think I have to agree with this. That it's not cannon and that S:TM introduced that angle. I dont think I like that angle too much either. Sounds like Spider-Man and gives the wrong motivations for Clark becoming Superman.
I sort of don't mind if JK lives or dies. But I feel like him dying fits more with the tone of this film... I have a hard time seeing Clark moping in Alaska with both his parents alive and well and with no motivation to do so...

As for it being too much like Spiderman or even Batman, I just don't think it is.

Spiderman - Uncle Ben dies, teaching Peter that his powers are not just for his own selfish gain, and forcing him to feel the responsibility that comes with such power.

Batman - The Wayne's die, and it fuels Bruce's life with anger and hatred which he focuses into fighting for justice.

MOS - Jonathon dies in a tornado while he is off rescuing other people (who may even not be grateful for his rescue, and view him as a freak), and it forces him to face the harsh reality that no matter what he does, he can't save everyone. It takes the events of the story, and a woman like Lois Lane, to convince him it's what he CAN do that matters.

I think they are very different lessons, all learned through the death of loved ones.

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:17 AM   #646
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Pa Kent dying wasn't a part of the original Superman mythos, was it? I thought the first time it happened was in STM.
Both Jonathan and Martha died in the original canon. That's what motivated Clark to go to Metropolis, back when he was Kal-L.

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It's a trailer though. You can't ever really tell anything from a trailer. Who's to say that Pa Kent wasn't killed earlier or later by Zod or Faora after trying to stand up and protect Clark for whatever reason.

I just dont see the point in killing Pa Kent. Yes, I'm sure one of you guys will come up with an explanation of how it is vital in Clark becoming Supes blah blah blah, but I still don't like it. I want Pa Kent to live a long life with Ma Kent tending to the Pa and Ma Kent farm.

However, if he does have to die, I mean absolutely has to then I want him dying heroically and not because of some dumb tornado.
Pushing himself beyond his limits to help innocents into a tornado shelter, saving others at the expense of his own life, is not heroic?

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:20 AM   #647
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Oh yeah; no doubt on the guilt part. The only times that I've seen Superman guilty about his parents dying was in S:TM, the Superman Brainiac Story line where Brainiac was responsible for killing Pa Kent, and the Smallville TV Series Story line where Pa Kent's death was a result out of Clark's decisions.
Well, that would make more sense regarding the guilt-trip. Superman WOULD be partially responsible here. A tornado is just a freak accident.

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:23 AM   #648
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"All-Star Superman" explains better than anyone can.

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:29 AM   #649
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I sort of don't mind if JK lives or dies. But I feel like him dying fits more with the tone of this film... I have a hard time seeing Clark moping in Alaska with both his parents alive and well and with no motivation to do so...

As for it being too much like Spiderman or even Batman, I just don't think it is.

Spiderman - Uncle Ben dies, teaching Peter that his powers are not just for his own selfish gain, and forcing him to feel the responsibility that comes with such power.

Batman - The Wayne's die, and it fuels Bruce's life with anger and hatred which he focuses into fighting for justice.

MOS - Jonathon dies in a tornado while he is off rescuing other people (who may even not be grateful for his rescue, and view him as a freak), and it forces him to face the harsh reality that no matter what he does, he can't save everyone. It takes the events of the story, and a woman like Lois Lane, to convince him it's what he CAN do that matters.

I think they are very different lessons, all learned through the death of loved ones.

Ok, I dont mind him having a small guilt-trip (that only makes sense) as long as it doesnt propel him directly into being Superman.

Yeah, they're all different lessons, but I hope in the end what propels Clark into becoming Superman is Clark. Not guilt, responsibility, Lois or even justice, but because it's just who he is. When all is said and done that is. When the movie is over and all the lines have been crossed, dealt with and wiped out. When Superman is born.

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:33 AM   #650
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This is from a panel of the great 1973 story of silver age Superman's origin.



And even if Superman doesn't feel that way when it comes to his foster parents. It's still a big part of getting to the character in other conflicts and stories. People say Superman is boring because he is too powerful. Well guess what, even with all his powers he can't save everyone or everything, and that's a great way to show Superman overcome that, it's a part of what makes him tick.

And it's not so much about guilt (it sure wasn't in STM) but more about coming to that realization and making it a part of your character, it's a huge part of Superman's humbleness imo.


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