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Old 01-27-2013, 03:38 PM   #26
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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But he had time to save the Joker from dying in a very similar manner.
No he didn't. Joker fell by himself. Batman fell with Dent and Gordon's son. He could only save one or the other. Not both.

With Joker he clearly strategized the attack to graze his face with those wrist blades ("No, but I know how you got these"), then throw him off the building, then catch him with the grappling hook. That was an obvious planned strategy.

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Old 01-27-2013, 03:51 PM   #27
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

Oh boy, that last rebuttal got me. Now I'll just go ahead and think it was a good idea to kill Two-Face off. Thanks guys. You're all so good at this.

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Old 01-27-2013, 03:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

^ The decision to kill Two Face off is a different argument altogether.

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Old 01-27-2013, 04:08 PM   #29
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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I just don't think Batman was truly left without any options. He could have jumped in front of the bullet with his bulletproof armor. He could have bataranged Dent's hand. He did everything in his power to save the Joker, grapple gunned his FOOT from 20 stories up. And yet he (inadvertantly) kills Gotham's white knight? nah. id rather be blissfully ignorant on the subject.
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whew. this forum doesnt like me questioning plotlines of TDK, does it? bahaha.

well, its my one qualm with the film as you can see the majority of my list is from TDKR...
How could he jump infront of the bullet when Two-face was practically holding the boy against his body with the gun to his head?

I don't mind anyone questioning plotlines as long as there is realistic questions...yours are not, it's just being contrarian.

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Old 01-27-2013, 04:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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How could he jump infront of the bullet when Two-face was practically holding the boy against his body with the gun to his head?

I don't mind anyone questioning plotlines as long as there is realistic questions...yours are not, it's just being contrarian.
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at least the Batman I know, who always finds a way. He will overcome nearly every obstacle and facet of common sense just to protect the law and ensure every criminal faces a fair trial.

So if I believe Two-Face was unconscious in the scene after he fell, am I being a contrarian or am I just understanding Batman a little more than Nolan gives me credit for?

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Old 01-27-2013, 04:38 PM   #31
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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Hi. This is Batman:
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

at least the Batman I know, who always finds a way. He will overcome nearly every obstacle and facet of common sense just to protect the law and ensure every criminal faces a fair trial.

So if I believe Two-Face was unconscious in the scene after he fell, am I being a contrarian or am I just understanding Batman a little more than Nolan gives me credit for?
You're not doing yourself any favors by trying to use "animated movie/comics Batman" to justify something "Nolanverse Batman" did/didn't do. Seriously.

"he always finds a way" could have been done in some many things... Nolan created a more grounded in reality storyline, albeit some things were highly unlikely, but all were possible, and in that, bataranging a gun out of someone's hand or whipping out some nifty Bat-gadget to unarm Two-Face.

I have no issue with you believing Two-Face is alive/unconscious, I'd go as far to say he was concussed into a coma...but I totally disagree with your POV on Batman "not finding a way" to save the boy AND two-face.

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Old 01-27-2013, 04:48 PM   #32
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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You're not doing yourself any favors by trying to use "animated movie/comics Batman" to justify something "Nolanverse Batman" did/didn't do. Seriously.

"he always finds a way" could have been done in some many things... Nolan created a more grounded in reality storyline, albeit some things were highly unlikely, but all were possible, and in that, bataranging a gun out of someone's hand or whipping out some nifty Bat-gadget to unarm Two-Face.

I have no issue with you believing Two-Face is alive/unconscious, I'd go as far to say he was concussed into a coma...but I totally disagree with your POV on Batman "not finding a way" to save the boy AND two-face.
Fair enough. No sense continuing to argue then.

I do agree (especially in the Nolanverse) Two-Face merely surviving the fall is more logical than Batman using "movie magic" or something to save the kid. In the end however, that's just how I know Batman to be. Its not like I'm opposed to most characters dying. Its just in the specific case of this superhero, and purely in my opinion, that killing off Batman's villains is the equivalent of killing off Batman himself.

Batman's rogues ARE his story. And Batman's rogues go to Arkham. Plain and simple.

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Old 01-27-2013, 05:11 PM   #33
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How was Batman supposed to save the kid and shoot the grappling gun to save dent and save himself?
I'd guess if someone is saying he didn't need to kill Dent he could have thrown a batarang at Dent's hand whilst he was looking at his coin, or shot his grapple at Dent's hand etc

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Old 01-27-2013, 05:26 PM   #34
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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Batman's rogues ARE his story. And Batman's rogues go to Arkham. Plain and simple.
Yes, but you must admit that's great for the comics, which go on forever and ever. So they want to keep these great villains alive for a lot of future use. I mean even though Arkham has the most laughable security in the world, it's a safety writing device to reuse the villains.

Movies are a finite universe. They're not coming out once or twice a month for decades. I've no problem with a villain being killed off if they've been used well in the movie, or their death serves a purpose. In fairness to Nolan, he didn't kill all of his villains. Joker and Scarecrow got to live. Those that died, their death did have a purpose (Ra's and Two Face). Bane was used well.

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Old 01-27-2013, 06:44 PM   #35
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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I'd guess if someone is saying he didn't need to kill Dent he could have thrown a batarang at Dent's hand whilst he was looking at his coin, or shot his grapple at Dent's hand etc

Eh I mean I guess. Batman when you think about it kind of needed Dent dead anyways. What if Harvey had lived then what. Just still lie that it was Batman. I don't think that would have worked with Dent alive.

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Old 01-27-2013, 06:50 PM   #36
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

Things that I would like to believe that happened in TDKT, most of Jakinj stuff, if only because it is really well done and thought.

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Old 01-27-2013, 07:10 PM   #37
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Things that I would like to believe that happened in TDKT, most of Jakinj stuff, if only because it is really well done and thought.
I really only like the Blake and Harley Quinn stories. Barbara's is okay too, but I'd prefer to see her as Oracle. Freeze/Ivy aren't bad. I'd probably alter them slightly.

But suffice it to say, this is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:29 PM   #38
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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1. Ras Al Ghul may have been killed by the subway crash, but he was brought to the Lazarus Pits by the league of shadow and resurrected.
2. Between BB and TDK Batman rounds up many of the Arkham escapees. Including Victor Zsasz.
3. Two-Face was not killed by the fall. The same fall that didn't kill Batman. He was just unconscious and brought to a secure wing at Arkham where his identity is secure from the public.
4. Joker is in the same secure wing at Arkham during the events of TDKR.
5. Batman is not actually retired between TDK and TDKR, but fighting crime in secret. Alfred and Lucius don't know, Gordon may or may not suspect. The police and general public don't know about ALL the crime that happens in the city.
6. Bane is not killed by Catwoman on the Batpod, his armor and physical flawlessness barely save his life. Him and Scarecrow are taken to the same secure wing as Joker and Two-Face.
7. Talia Al Ghul was killed in the final chase sequence of TDKR, but Ras comes out of hiding and resurrects her using the Lazarus Pits.
8. Blake (Robin) becomes Nightwing and not "Batman." This is just a personal opinion. Not something that makes or breaks the series. He goes on to fight Batman's more abstract villains (Mr. Freeze, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy, etc.)
I agree with all your ideas that I put in bold

I think adding in supernatural elements like the Lazarus Pit would have worked fine in Nolan's trilogy as long as it was played straight and serious.

If Heath Leger was alive, a cameo of him in Arkham would of been great.

However, I find it implausible that if Harvey Dent was alive, he would be in Arkham as well. That would mean that Gordon employed a ton of Arkham employees, doctors, government officials, etc. to cover up Dent's true situation and to have a ton of people lie to the public and say he's dead. That's just not something as an audience member I could buy.

I don't care for Talia having a child; she could of easily just crashed the truck she was driving and had badly injured her legs, thus been unable to move and keeping fighting Batman/Gordon. The ending of TDKR would have been totally the same if Talia had just been arrested. Of all the villains Nolan used, Talia was the one that DID NOT HAVE TO DIE. Gordon could have easily slapped cuffs on her and then Batman flies away with the bomb. In fact, both Bane and Talia could of been arrested/captured and TDKR's ending would be no different.

I also agree that the 8 year gap is lame. Batman was still active during those 8 years, in my imagination. Batman kept his activities a secret.

I could also agree that Bane survived the blast from the Batpod and he was taken to a maximum security prison OUTSIDE OF GOTHAM. After all, he basically took over an entire American city. The US Government would probably come in and snatch him up; he would NOT be at a prison in Gotham but instead a US Federal Prison where he will never see the light of day.

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Old 01-27-2013, 11:04 PM   #39
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I agree with all your ideas that I put in bold

I think adding in supernatural elements like the Lazarus Pit would have worked fine in Nolan's trilogy as long as it was played straight and serious.

If Heath Leger was alive, a cameo of him in Arkham would of been great.

However, I find it implausible that if Harvey Dent was alive, he would be in Arkham as well. That would mean that Gordon employed a ton of Arkham employees, doctors, government officials, etc. to cover up Dent's true situation and to have a ton of people lie to the public and say he's dead. That's just not something as an audience member I could buy.

I don't care for Talia having a child; she could of easily just crashed the truck she was driving and had badly injured her legs, thus been unable to move and keeping fighting Batman/Gordon. The ending of TDKR would have been totally the same if Talia had just been arrested. Of all the villains Nolan used, Talia was the one that DID NOT HAVE TO DIE. Gordon could have easily slapped cuffs on her and then Batman flies away with the bomb. In fact, both Bane and Talia could of been arrested/captured and TDKR's ending would be no different.

I also agree that the 8 year gap is lame. Batman was still active during those 8 years, in my imagination. Batman kept his activities a secret.

I could also agree that Bane survived the blast from the Batpod and he was taken to a maximum security prison OUTSIDE OF GOTHAM. After all, he basically took over an entire American city. The US Government would probably come in and snatch him up; he would NOT be at a prison in Gotham but instead a US Federal Prison where he will never see the light of day.
Now, I really appreciate your indulgence.

So, to embellish upon the Dent point, I could see the funding of the secure Arkham wing being provided under the table by Wayne enterprises, and overseen by Batman himself. Obviously entirely underground, figuratively speaking. Thus explaining why: Two-Face's existence is maintained a secret, Bane's imprisonment there, (secret from even the government/presumed dead) and Joker's complete disappearance. Sort of adds to the distrusting demeanor of Bruce. He wouldnt trust the state to keep his greatest adversaries behind bars. He even went bankrupt trying to keep that fusion reactor out of criminal hands.

Whenever Gordon says Dent is dead, he means it. Dent did die that night. Two-Face is all thats left.

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Old 01-28-2013, 12:30 AM   #40
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

Talia had to c-sec Damien at 5 months (That's why Damien is so messed up), an heir to ensure the league of shadows continues. He gets trained by the league.

In 15 years he comes back to Gotham with the League and puts Alfred's life in jeopardy, the only thing that would bring Bruce Wayne back to Gotham.

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Old 01-28-2013, 05:22 AM   #41
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I believe that Bruce Wayne had a twin brother. They both shared the burden of being Batman. Both of them sacrificed their individuality for the sake of inspiring a city. One loved Rachel , the other Selina (i dont know which one liked Talia , but just by looking at her probably...both). One died saving the city , and the other lived a normal life (maybe with the one he didnt love). It eased Alfred's pain , because he had no idea they were two. He actually thinks Bruce lived....

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Old 01-28-2013, 08:29 AM   #42
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Blake died a gruesome death on his first night as Batman.

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Old 01-28-2013, 09:32 AM   #43
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Blake died a gruesome death on his first night as Batman.
Brilliant

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Old 01-28-2013, 12:04 PM   #44
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

John Blake goes out as "Batman" to fight crime and gets killed on his first night out.

EDIT: Kvz you beat me to it XD, it's the FIRST thing I think of when the idea of him taking on the Batman mantle comes to mind, and also, what I'd love to believe >:-}

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Old 01-28-2013, 01:57 PM   #45
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Yes, but you must admit that's great for the comics, which go on forever and ever. So they want to keep these great villains alive for a lot of future use. I mean even though Arkham has the most laughable security in the world, it's a safety writing device to reuse the villains.

Movies are a finite universe. They're not coming out once or twice a month for decades. I've no problem with a villain being killed off if they've been used well in the movie, or their death serves a purpose. In fairness to Nolan, he didn't kill all of his villains. Joker and Scarecrow got to live. Those that died, their death did have a purpose (Ra's and Two Face). Bane was used well.
I gave this some thought and I agree, but only to a point. I think its just as realistic to have an Arkham with less laughable security and let them stay locked up for life.

It's not about what Nolan wants ITS ABOUT WHATS FAIR.

:P jkjk. You're right. He kept a couple alive. But he did kill off more than half of the villains he used.

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Old 01-28-2013, 02:54 PM   #46
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I gave this some thought and I agree, but only to a point. I think its just as realistic to have an Arkham with less laughable security and let them stay locked up for life.
Well that's true, but what's the point in putting them in Arkham if they're not coming back again? This is the movies. They're not going on for an infinite number of sequels. In the case of Joker and Scarecrow, Crane came back. And I think Joker was a guarantee to be in TDKR somewhere if Heath had not died.

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It's not about what Nolan wants ITS ABOUT WHATS FAIR.

:P jkjk. You're right. He kept a couple alive. But he did kill off more than half of the villains he used.
Most comic book movie series do. Take the recent Spider-Man trilogy. Every villain except Sandman died. The Iron Man movies have so far killed both Obidiah Stane and Vanko. I don't fancy the Mandarin's chances for IM3.

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:07 PM   #47
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Again does anyone else agree Batman really needed dent dead so that they could clean up gotham with the dent act. I mean you can't really get away with it if dent survived. Someone would speak up. Keeping dent alive would have made for a better movie though

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:21 PM   #48
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Again does anyone else agree Batman really needed dent dead so that they could clean up gotham with the dent act. I mean you can't really get away with it if dent survived. Someone would speak up. Keeping dent alive would have made for a better movie though
If you're making it sound like Batman wanted to jump off that ledge with Dent, then no, I do not believe Batman wanted or needed Dent to die, but it was for the greater good to stop him from harming Gordon's son.

And who would speak up? Ramirez could have since she lived, but she obviously didn't.

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:25 PM   #49
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Who wouldn't speak up. You are going to have to lock dent up. Someone who knows hes locked up will speak way before 8 years of the public knowing

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #50
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I think Dent was kind of suicidal to begin with. "You think I want to escape from this?"

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