List of Things Batman Returns got Right/Wrong

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by RustyCage

Does he record Shreck too later? Or no?

No. As far as the movie showed, he had nothing on Schreck. The only plausible explanation to the jail line is what PonyBoy suggested; he said that to try and get Selina to back down from killing Schreck.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by The Joker

No. As far as the movie showed, he had nothing on Schreck. The only plausible explanation to the jail line is what PonyBoy suggested; he said that to try and get Selina to back down from killing Schreck.

Not bad either.

Whether or not the line definitively made sense in the full scheme of the movie, I thought Keaton's delivery of it kicked a lot of ass.

[Mace Dolex]

Originally Posted by Bathead

I still have a problem with the idea of Penguin somehow getting the blueprints of the Batmobile. I just don't buy it. Batman has always been mindful of his security (read: extremely paranoid) and protecting his secret ID. Leaving blueprints of the Batmobile around for his enemies to so easily steal is just wholly unbelievable to me. About the onlly place there would be any bleuprints left that hadn't been destroyed already would be in the Bat-cave.

And also how the Circus Gang became such tech wizards in bypassing the Batmobile protective shield and installing the bomb.

Speaking of which the gang seemed to be intricately going into the Batmobiles internal instruments in sabotaging it but all it took was Batman punching through the car floor and removing the barber shop spinning looking bomb.

[Ponyboy]

Originally Posted by The Joker

The only plausible explanation given was by PonyBoy.

Hey, I did something almost right for once! I won't let it go to my head.

No wait. Too late.

[Young Superman]

Batman Reterns had the best Bat-Suit and Batmobile in live action.

[Bathead]

Originally Posted by Mace Dolex

And also how the Circus Gang became such tech wizards in bypassing the Batmobile protective shield and installing the bomb.

Speaking of which the gang seemed to be intricately going into the Batmobiles internal instruments in sabotaging it but all it took was Batman punching through the car floor and removing the barber shop spinning looking bomb.

Especially considering that the underside of the Batmobile's chassis was supposed to be heavily armored (i.e. Bomb-proof).

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

The army of penguins was pretty left field. Otherwise this is my favorite of the old Batman anthology. Its not really something that the film got wrong...but Killer Croc would've fit right in with Penguin's gang.

[TruerToTheCore]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator

The army of penguins was pretty left field. Otherwise this is my favorite of the old Batman anthology. Its not really something that the film got wrong...but Killer Croc would've fit right in with Penguin's gang.

Modern day Killer Croc. Not 80s Croc.

[Ponyboy]

80's is Modern Day.

[Bathead]

In the fight with Catwoman, when Bats knocked Catwoman down, and she exclaimed "How could you! I'm a woman!" and he went to apologetically help her up, and she copped a sneak shot at him, I found that to be way out of character for Batman, he's much too smart a fighter to fall for such an obvious ploy (the equivalent of "Hey! Look out behind you!"). I don't care if she is indeed a woman, and generally speaking, Batman may indeed be a "Gentleman" in a non-combat situation, in the middle of an all out fight, his opponent's gender is not going to matter to him one little bit.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by Bathead

Especially considering that the underside of the Batmobile's chassis was supposed to be heavily armored (i.e. Bomb-proof).

Was it? I thought the Burton Batmobile was generally bulletproof, but the 'shields' he activated made it everythingelseproof.

Don't recall anything specific about the underside.

[Ponyboy]

Originally Posted by Bathead

In the fight with Catwoman, when Bats knocked Catwoman down, and she exclaimed "How could you! I'm a woman!" and he went to apologetically help her up, and she copped a sneak shot at him, I found that to be way out of character for Batman, he's much too smart a fighter to fall for such an obvious ploy (the equivalent of "Hey! Look out behind you!"). I don't care if she is indeed a woman, and generally speaking, Batman may indeed be a "Gentleman" in a non-combat situation, in the middle of an all out fight, his opponent's gender is not going to matter to him one little bit.

Well, violence against women is probably not something that Batman cares too much for. In the heat of the moment he may have been shocked by the fact that he hit her (not something he would normally do)... and maybe he thought she was attacking him because she felt threatened by him. I don't think Catwoman was clearly a "villain" yet to him at that point in the film.

[TruerToTheCore]

Originally Posted by Ponyboy

Well, violence against women is probably not something that Batman cares too much for. In the heat of the moment he may have been shocked by the fact that he hit her (not something he would normally do)... and maybe he thought she was attacking him because she felt threatened by him. I don't think Catwoman was clearly a "villain" yet to him at that point in the film.

Blowing up a mall makes you a villain in my world.

I'm rather amazed that a ****ed up psychopath like Burton's Batman has problems with hitting women.

And falling from a skyscraper and then being resurrected by radioactive zombie cats apparently makes a shy secretary able to fight Batman.

Meh.

[Ponyboy]

Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore

Blowing up a mall makes you a villain in my world.

He had no proof she did that.

Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore

I'm rather amazed that a ****ed up psychopath like Burton's Batman has problems with hitting women.

Now you're just being ridiculous. Psychopathy applies to Burton's Batman in a loose sense. He has some of the traits of a psychopath, and not even some of the the ones that we tend to identify the word with.

Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore

And falling from a skyscraper and then being resurrected by radioactive zombie cats apparently makes a shy secretary able to fight Batman.

Meh.

It gave her cat-like reflexes and abilities, I dunno? It's a comic book movie. Hey, guess what... Earth's yellow Sun makes Superman fly. I hope that doesn't ruin your enjoyment of those films.

[TruerToTheCore]

Originally Posted by Ponyboy

He had no proof she did that.

I think he saw her coming out of the building?

Now you're just being ridiculous. Psychopathy applies to Burton's Batman in a loose sense. He has some of the traits of a psychopath, and not even some of the the ones that we tend to identify the word with.

Obvious psychopath is obvious.

It gave her cat-like reflexes and abilities, I dunno? It's a comic book movie. Hey, guess what... Earth's yellow Sun makes Superman fly. I hope that doesn't ruin your enjoyment of those films.

I thought she wasn't supernatural?

[Bathead]

Originally Posted by Ponyboy

Well, violence against women is probably not something that Batman cares too much for. In the heat of the moment he may have been shocked by the fact that he hit her (not something he would normally do)... and maybe he thought she was attacking him because she felt threatened by him. I don't think Catwoman was clearly a "villain" yet to him at that point in the film.

Still not buying it.
Yes, Batman is against violence towards everyone (not just women), but that does not apply to people who are trying to hurt others (including himself. Batman is a smart fighter, and what Catwoman did (after she drew first blood) was rather obvious, considering she was definitely trying to hurt him. It's the kind of obvious ploy that only stupid people will fall for, and Batman is not that stupid.

[Bathead]

Originally Posted by RustyCage

Was it? I thought the Burton Batmobile was generally bulletproof, but the 'shields' he activated made it everythingelseproof.

Don't recall anything specific about the underside.

Nothing in the movie really, but in other media (like print and the like) when presenting statistics about the Batmobile (stats supplied by WB) the underside was always mentioned as being armor plated. Stiil, even if not armored, he shouldn't have been able to punch thru sheet metal, likely made of steel, as if it were flimsy tin foil. Try punching thru the floor of your own un-armored car and see how that works.

[Ponyboy]

Originally Posted by Bathead

Still not buying it. It's the kind of obvious ploy that only stupid people will fall for, and Batman is not that stupid.

If you're not willing to suspend disbelief, then think of a better reason why Batman would've done that instead of offering reasons why he wouldn't have.

[ThePhantasm]

Got wrong:

1. Wasn't a big fan of Penguin's gang of circus freaks / clowns... seemed too "Joker-esque" to me.

2. Selina being given magical powers by cats.

3. Too many sexual innuendo jokes, overdoing the whole Penguin is a sleazy creepster thing.

4. The more confined sets / set reuse. There may have been thematic significance to this, but it isn't as fun to watch. It makes it feel as if Returns lacks the scope of 89.

5. Batman killing. I'm quite a fan of Burton's interpretation of Batman, but not of the fact that his Batman kills (and, in the case of the strongman at least, seems to enjoy it).

Got right:

1. Bruce / Selina's relationship. Nailed it. Still my favorite interpretation. Too complex to get into here.

2. Bruce's withdrawal after Vicki leaves. Bruce's whole character arc is so subtle but there's a lot of complexity under the surface. Really well done.

3. The Penguin's backstory. I like the notion of the Penguin being a monster who wants to be accepted by higher society. I think Burton made him more disgusting and less sympathetic than he could have been, but overall the Penguin was a surprisingly solid sequel villain.

4. The action. A step up from B89. I enjoy how they put together action scenes in clever ways that work around the limitations of the batsuit and still come off as badass. Batman's trick with the grappling gun and the chunk off of the wall against the circus goon is one great example.

5. The ending. For all the convoluted twists and turns of the plot, the finale is hugely satisfying.

[Bathead]

Originally Posted by Ponyboy

If you're not willing to suspend disbelief, then think of a better reason why Batman would've done that instead of offering reasons why he wouldn't have.

That makes no sense. Why would I bother to think of a better reason why he would have done that, when I feel that what happened in the movie was totally out of character for Batman as he's been presented for well over 70 years, (just as wrong as being made into a killer when for 99% of his published career he hasn't been) and it has nothing to do with suspension of disbleief.

[Ponyboy]

Originally Posted by Bathead

That makes no sense.

[RustyCage]

I agree with Phantasm, particularly on the Bruce/Selina chemistry and the ending.

The grappling hook thing always made me question how much physical sense it made, but it was a fresh, clever idea.