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Old 01-23-2013, 03:19 AM   #651
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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Definitely put me in the "non" 2 movie camp too. If given a choice between splitting it into 2 parts and adding another 10-15 minutes, I'd definitely go with the latter. But I'll gladly take the film as is over it being spit into two films. I just feel very strongly that splitting it up would have really disrupted the emotional experience of witnessing Bruce's entire journey in one sitting. I think it would have diluted the impact. I remember there were rumors that WB wanted Nolan to do this, I was against it then and I'm against it now.
I think there's something to be said for suspense and cliffhangers. Once upon a time, we had these things called 'serials'... It could have been brilliant as two, but I agree that an extra like 20 minutes probably would have sufficed very nicely.

As long as we can squeeze in some more fleshing out of Bane's character and ideology, have a rooftop chase with Batman and Catwoman (in the snow), and give Scarecrow some time to help tear up Gotham a bit, I'm all smiles.

And we could also round out Foley better too, I guess. haha

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:37 AM   #652
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

^ I agree with everything except Scarecrow helping on tearing up Gotham. He was fine in his cameo as a judge, but I don't think Crane should've done anything more.

I wouldn't have cared if we got either of those ideas, tbh. A two-parter TDKR or just a one longer film would've only made me more excited of the final product, but I think if IMAX wasn't an issue, we would have only gotten a longer The Dark Knight Rises as I've mentioned once before, Nolan didn't seem like someone that wanted to give us a two-parter ending, only just a core beginning, middle and end. A 3 hours, or 3 hours and plus film would've been the likeliest outcome.

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I'm guessing the tighter neck makes it hard on his breathing/speech.

Or it could be that the TDK/R suit is (according to Bale) much heavier than the BB suit, so he's always straining a bit.
Most likely a mix of both with it being heavier and it straining Bale's throat. But yah, there was no way around from Bale making that face.


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Old 01-23-2013, 12:47 PM   #653
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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I think there's something to be said for suspense and cliffhangers. Once upon a time, we had these things called 'serials'... It could have been brilliant as two, but I agree that an extra like 20 minutes probably would have sufficed very nicely.

As long as we can squeeze in some more fleshing out of Bane's character and ideology, have a rooftop chase with Batman and Catwoman (in the snow), and give Scarecrow some time to help tear up Gotham a bit, I'm all smiles.

And we could also round out Foley better too, I guess. haha
I see what you're saying. From a fanboy perspective, sure I'll always take more Batman. I just don't think a cliffhanger would have worked as well for this film. Like, say you ended after Bruce gets put in the prison. It's not like this is Shawshank or a prison break movie and we're gonna be wondering "how's he gonna get out?". We know the method of escape and we're rooting for Bruce to find the strength to do it. I think cliffhangers work better when you're genuinely unsure how the hero will get out of the predicament they're in. I think it just would've led to an unfulfilling part 1 while setting up a pretty obvious part 2. Sure, if you put them together you could still have a great film, but it would have disrupted the emotional journey too much for my tastes. A serialized approach obviously works for Batman because he's a comic book character after all. But that's the thing, Nolan wasn't making a comic book, he was making a movie. And I think that "full journey" effect of a film is what elevates the experience of being told a Batman story in that medium.

My thing is, for as much as we all wanted to see more of various side characters, I think Bruce's arc in this film was given just the right amount of attention and that's ultimately what kept me invested. I think splitting into two movies would have served to flesh out Gotham more, but at the expense of the weight of Bruce's arc. I wanted to see the "fall and rise" in one film, not one film for the fall and another film for the rise.


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A two-parter TDKR or just a one longer film would've only made me more excited of the final product, but I think if IMAX wasn't an issue, we would have only gotten a longer The Dark Knight Rises as
Yeah, that's essentially what I mean. I agree with Nolan's decision to complete the story by making it a trilogy, 3 parts with their own themes/feel/look etc. Maybe I'm just OCD about it, but I feel like having two films so closely connected would've thrown off the balance of the series.

And I agree that if it wasn't for the constraints of IMAX, it would've probably been a 3 hour flick.

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Old 01-23-2013, 01:25 PM   #654
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Alright, I'm not a screenwriter or someone of Nolan's caliber, but here's what I would have liked to have seen. This would hopefully still preserve most of the themes Nolan was going for. Basically I would like to cut out the unnecessary characters like John Blake and Talia, and focus on the heart of the story. I also don't like the nuke plot - I'd prefer Bane to actually want to rule Gotham.

- Film opens with Batman on the run from the cops, about two years after the events of TDK. He is clearly tired, worn, and injured. Gordon is trying to call off the cops... to create a path through which Batman can escape... but a stray bullet causes an explosion in the building and Batman is presumed dead.

- Jump forward to six years later. Bruce Wayne is in hiding after the failure of his energy project. He had to give up being the Batman to recover from his injuries, which took a heavy toll. Both his energy project and his attempts to save Gotham seem to have failed. Gotham is still corrupt (no Dent act). Gordon is much more grim after Batman's supposed death. His wife and children have left him, and he feels there may be no real hope for Gotham.

- Enter Bane. He's a mercenary followed by what remains of the League of Shadows (disbanded after Ra's death). He begins to set up his takeover of Gotham. Bruce sees this as an opportunity to return to his cape and cowl. Alfred warns him not to and leaves, just as in the film. Batman makes what seems like a triumphant return, to Gordon's joy, but then Batman encounters Bane and gets broken and cast into the Pit. Again, it seems that the Batman is dead.

- Bane takes over the city, closes it off, and rules over it like a mad dictator, threatening to spread a lethal virus known as Venom throughout the populace if anyone tries to escape. The only one who believes there is still hope is Jim Gordon, who knows that the Batman disappeared once before, and still believes Batman will return.

- Batman returns from the pit as in the movie, and the movie progresses from there with Batman saving Gotham. There is no Talia in the film. Catwoman is redeemed as a character (just as in the film). Bane, when he thinks he has lost, tries to destroy both himself and Batman, and seemingly does. But Batman uses the opportunity to fake his death one last time. He leaves as Bruce Wayne to live a normal life. Gotham is redeemed - inspired by Batman's example, the people save their city. Gordon reunites with his family.

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Old 01-23-2013, 02:35 PM   #655
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Gotham without Batman is like a Batman movie . . .without Batman

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Old 01-24-2013, 08:15 PM   #656
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

BB:
-The Narrows. Shoot it on real location. Like the dark alleys of Gotham in TDK where Batman and Dent took Maroni and Schiff, respectively.
-Find a better actress to replace Katie Holmes.
-Less exposition.
-Stupid plot device.

TDK:
-Fight scenes.

TDKR:
-Could have been longer.

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Old 01-26-2013, 04:11 PM   #657
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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For everyone's consideration:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:
Nice find! This is how the fight scene should've been (without cut scenes)! Watching it uncut was way more intense then being disrupted with Gordon and Blake in the movie version.

As another poster suggested, I agree the fight scene should've opened up with a Batman glide kick to Bane. However, I'm fine with Bane's line "So you came here to die with your city?" Maybe have him chuckling as he gets up before he says his line.

I also agree it's pretty brutal hearing Batman's comeback line.

And I think Bane should've been sleeveless in this scene. In fact, the sleeves made him look smaller.


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Old 01-26-2013, 04:30 PM   #658
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Most of the fight feels slightly over-choreographed to me (except the bits where Tom cuts loose and seems like he's literally trying to destroy Christian), but I have to say, I am like over the moon happy that we finally have that iconic thing Batman does from the intro to BTAS where you just see his shape smoothly swooping under and around punches, like the crooks are trying to punch a shadow.

They FINALLY approached that when Bane goes into frenzy mode. It's something I've wanted to see Bale's Batman do since Begins.

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Old 01-26-2013, 04:34 PM   #659
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

That final fight is so short. Just about a minute and 35 seconds long. A longer fight would have been nice...

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Old 01-26-2013, 05:07 PM   #660
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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That final fight is so short. Just about a minute and 35 seconds long. A longer fight would have been nice...
I agree. Especially if it graduated to more of an intimate setting, out of the crowd, and involved a philosophical back and forth between them.

Would've rocked hard.

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Old 01-26-2013, 05:15 PM   #661
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

The only thing I would have changed was actually actually killing batman off. Still, was a phenomenal movie.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:04 AM   #662
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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I was kind of annoyed that Blake didn't mention the Joker when he's talking to Gordon about the night Dent died. He brings up Batman killing Dent and taking down the SWAT team but nothing about stopping Joker. I think it's ridiculous that Nolan thinks it wouldn't be right bringing up the Joker because Ledger died.

Nice Avy by the way!
Agree they sold shirts with his face on them but saying Joker in the new movie was just a huge no for some reason. Thank you!

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:14 AM   #663
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I think keeping twoface alive would have been great. After the fall when batman was talking to Gordon about taking the blame when they panned out to twoface and his body be missing.

Also I wish batman defeated or subdued bane rather than catwoman coming and being anticlimactic. Something along the line of banes mask being ripped off and batman walking away with it in his hand and dropping it kind of like what name did with his cowl. Then batman saying I don't have to kill you but I don't have to save you either as a bunch of cops storm the building. That would have been badas.

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Old 01-29-2013, 06:26 AM   #664
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I would have liked Bruce's death explained better.

Everyone knows Batman saved the city
but 4 people know it was Bruce Wayne

So how does everyone not figure out Wayne was Batman, if they disappeared/died at the same time?

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Old 01-29-2013, 11:11 AM   #665
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

It can EASILY be explained that Bruce Wayne died the day before Batman(and the cops) vs Bane(and the LoS/mercenaries) happened since no one knows what happened to Bruce after some mercenaries and Selina brought Wayne and Fox "to Bane" except Lucius.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:25 PM   #666
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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I would have liked Bruce's death explained better.

Everyone knows Batman saved the city
but 4 people know it was Bruce Wayne

So how does everyone not figure out Wayne was Batman, if they disappeared/died at the same time?
The same reason why nobody links the return of Bruce Wayne (in Batman Begins) with the first appearance of the Batman -- it's a staple of the character that won't go away, no matter how ridiculous it is.

Same thing with Clark Kent's glasses.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:31 PM   #667
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

I agree with the other posters who said Batman should have glide kicked Bane in the final fight and then Bane gets up and says "so you came back to die with your city." I would have liked a better dialogue between Bane and Batman where Bruce is able to prove why's he a stronger man than Bane, think a reverse version of the first fight but Batman giving the speeches where he proves to Bane Batman's spirit is "faster, stronger than possible" echoing the old man's speech in prison.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:35 PM   #668
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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The same reason why nobody links the return of Bruce Wayne (in Batman Begins) with the first appearance of the Batman -- it's a staple of the character that won't go away, no matter how ridiculous it is.

Same thing with Clark Kent's glasses.
It wasn't handled very well in the movie but it's implied that lots of elite in Gotham died under Bane. The last time anyone saw Bruce was when he was about to go on "trial," so I think it's implied that Bruce was killed by exile. They really should have said something about how Gotham thinks Bruce died, though.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:38 PM   #669
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I agree with the other posters who said Batman should have glide kicked Bane in the final fight and then Bane gets up and says "so you came back to die with your city." I would have liked a better dialogue between Bane and Batman where Bruce is able to prove why's he a stronger man than Bane, think a reverse version of the first fight but Batman giving the speeches where he proves to Bane Batman's spirit is "faster, stronger than possible" echoing the old man's speech in prison.
No. thank you. I get where you are coming form and a glide kick would have been nice just because batman only uses his cape once this movie. Flying down from bane, but the least batman uses his words the better. Now I think no dialogue from those two would have been nice. Just bane seeing the expression on batmans face would have been enough for me

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:38 PM   #670
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I agree with the other posters who said Batman should have glide kicked Bane in the final fight and then Bane gets up and says "so you came back to die with your city." I would have liked a better dialogue between Bane and Batman where Bruce is able to prove why's he a stronger man than Bane, think a reverse version of the first fight but Batman giving the speeches where he proves to Bane Batman's spirit is "faster, stronger than possible" echoing the old man's speech in prison.
If there's a glide kick to Bane, I would have so not wanted Bane to get up to just say something without trying to attack. Imo, it would seem so odd for Batman to start up a fight for Bane to only get up and speak.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:57 PM   #671
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

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If there's a glide kick to Bane, I would have so not wanted Bane to get up to just say something without trying to attack. Imo, it would seem so odd for Batman to start up a fight for Bane to only get up and speak.
I agree, that would be pretty goofy. If he just swooped down in front of him, then sure. But then you lose the epic visuals of them looking for each other through the crowd and Batman walking through the smoke.

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:57 PM   #672
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No. thank you. I get where you are coming form and a glide kick would have been nice just because batman only uses his cape once this movie. Flying down from bane, but the least batman uses his words the better. Now I think no dialogue from those two would have been nice. Just bane seeing the expression on batmans face would have been enough for me
The expression on Batman's face, doesn't really change.
I think I just want a bit more out of the Bane as an antagonist in the way that his flaws illustrate Batman's strengths. Both the final confrontation between Ra's and Joker involved dialogue dealing with their core conflicts. Some might argue it's too exposition heavy but it works for me. Bane might not have had as much substance other than the physical threat Batman has to overcome.

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Old 01-29-2013, 03:28 PM   #673
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I agree, that would be pretty goofy. If he just swooped down in front of him, then sure. But then you lose the epic visuals of them looking for each other through the crowd and Batman walking through the smoke.
I definitely enjoyed how it was set up in the film of Batman going through that smoke while Bane was going through the cops, criminals and the LoS guys to get to Batman. And, imo, "No, I came back to stop you." really defines that moment as it's true; that's essentially why Bruce Wayne returned: to stop Bane and the bomb then retire the cape and cowl once and for all.

And to go back to Batman gliding anywhere in the film, I can't think of any perfect place for it to happen in TDKR, to be perfectly honest.

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The expression on Batman's face, doesn't really change.
I think I just want a bit more out of the Bane as an antagonist in the way that his flaws illustrate Batman's strengths. Both the final confrontation between Ra's and Joker involved dialogue dealing with their core conflicts. Some might argue it's too exposition heavy but it works for me. Bane might not have had as much substance other than the physical threat Batman has to overcome.
In a way, this sorta did happen though when Batman spoke about climbing the Pit, something Bane was never able to do that showed just how much stronger Bruce is than Bane will ever be.

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Old 01-29-2013, 07:36 PM   #674
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

While I did miss Batman gliding in TDKR(The Hong Kong sequence in TDK is breathtaking) I suppose it did make sense for him not to glide, considering Bale was playing an aging Batman.

The final fight at least needed the extra footage of Batman beating down thugs to get to Bane. They show Bane plow through about six guys, and when they pan to Batman he's already in the middle of taking down one guy before he hip tosses the other.

IMAX limitations!

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Old 01-29-2013, 09:40 PM   #675
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I agree, that would be pretty goofy. If he just swooped down in front of him, then sure. But then you lose the epic visuals of them looking for each other through the crowd and Batman walking through the smoke.
I rather enjoyed seeing Batman and Bane fight their way toward one another. It flowed very well.

Here's my changes, taking into account some of The Joker et al's criticisms:

The Dent Act is gaining traction worldwide.

The Prologue is Bane doing a mission for a cartel boss, learning of the Dent Act from the boss, and stealing samples from the boss's laboratory.

The next time we see Bane, we learn that he has tracked down the infamous thief Selena Kyle and recruited her on behalf of his benefactor in Gotham, Daggett.

Catwoman makes her appearance at the scene where Harvey Dent had his stand off with Gordon. She searches the security camera archives in the surrounding area and shows off her martial prowess dodging guards/cops. She finds the damming video evidence of Dent, Gordon and Batman's final confrontation.

The next scene with Selena is at Wayne's party when she steals his fingerprints for Daggett.

Bane utilizes Daggett's assets to gain access to research facilities where he uses the cartel boss's sample to create a mutated strain of necrotizing fascittis, codenamed Venom.

Bane makes his public appearance at the GSE as usual. Events proceed as they did in the film up to Bane's attack on Gotham.

Bombs blow out the bridges and the football stadium. Instead of a bomb, Bane drags out a hostage--one of the politicians who wrote the Harvey Dent Act--and doses him with an injection of Venom. It is an accelerated form of necrotizing fascittis, so the results are quite horrifying for the crowd.

Bane gives his speech as usual. Another writer of the Dent Act is used to inform the Army as to why they'll help Bane keep his hostages.

Within Gotham, Selena and Blake confront their past demons in the atrocities committed by Bane's followers.

In the Pit, Bruce is given surgery by the doctor. The implements are not exactly sterile.

Bruce returns to Gotham. Tumblers patrol the streets while Urban Pacification Vehicles patrol the airspace around the city. They're loaded with missiles that explode and deploy Venom on impact.

Batman's first goal is to disable the Venom-laced bombs Bane has placed around the city, and gain access to Wayne Enterprises. Batman uses a gun like the one from TDK to fire something at the UPV's that disables their weapons systems. Batman then reveals himself to Gordon.

The war happens as usual. However, amidst the fighting, Bane triggers a string of bombs his men placed under Gotham during his reign. The city begins shaking to pieces. Citizens watch as Gotham falls apart ala the limbo city in Inception. Batman's facial expressions hint that the iatrogenic infection he got from the doctor's surgery is doing him in.

Years later a war-weary Gordon unveils the memorial statue; a distraught Alfred sees Bruce is off with Selena.

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