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Old 01-28-2013, 03:29 PM   #51
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

Dent was not suicidal. I thought he meant by this is who I am now

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:38 PM   #52
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

Considering he put a gun to his head and flipped the coin, I always figured he was at least partially suicidal.

Put it this way...if not outright suicidal, I think he was very okay with dying at that point because he had nothing left to live for.

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:41 PM   #53
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Who wouldn't speak up. You are going to have to lock dent up. Someone who knows hes locked up will speak way before 8 years of the public knowing
Ramirez could have just as well spoke up while Dent was dead as well; the two goes hand in hand in that Ramirez could have said something while Dent was dead or alive, but since she didn't when he was dead, who's to say someone would if Dent was alive?

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I think Dent was kind of suicidal to begin with. "You think I want to escape from this?"
Indeed. He wanted to end this after he finally achieved his revenge. When he said he wanted to escape this, he obviously meant at that moment, at that place where Rachel died. He didn't want to leave after he had pleased himself with vengeance.

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:45 PM   #54
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

[QUOTE=Anno_Domini;25081387]Ramirez could have just as well spoke up while Dent was dead as well; the two goes hand in hand in that Ramirez could have said something while Dent was dead or alive, but since she didn't when he was dead, who's to say someone would if Dent was alive?


That was one person. How are you going to explain the whole staff whether at arkham or wherever he ends up. I guess maybe somehow you can sneak him in the backdoor and keep it between 5 people

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:47 PM   #55
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That was one person. How are you going to explain the whole staff whether at arkham or wherever he ends up. I guess maybe somehow you can sneak him in the backdoor and keep it between 5 people
Being in a secure wing anywhere would have less people knowing about Dent's whereabouts. Again, I just don't see anyone speaking up even if one person didn't when Dent died as that one person is a cop to begin with and they're letting an Act be initiated that is more law than what should be with no parole for 1,000 criminals.

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:50 PM   #56
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Considering he put a gun to his head and flipped the coin, I always figured he was at least partially suicidal.

Put it this way...if not outright suicidal, I think he was very okay with dying at that point because he had nothing left to live for.
I always wanted to know what Dent would have done if his coin came up the bad side on himself. Would he be like "Crap. Gordon, I need to blow my brains out now, so when I'm dead, will you flip my coin again and promise me if it comes up bad you'll kill your kid?"

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Old 01-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #57
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I always wanted to know what Dent would have done if his coin came up the bad side on himself. Would he be like "Crap. Gordon, I need to blow my brains out now, so when I'm dead, will you flip my coin again and promise me if it comes up bad you'll kill your kid?"
Haha, I guess he figured blowing his brains all over the Gordon family would be enough to scar them for life and get his point across

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Old 01-28-2013, 05:32 PM   #58
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I always wanted to know what Dent would have done if his coin came up the bad side on himself. Would he be like "Crap. Gordon, I need to blow my brains out now, so when I'm dead, will you flip my coin again and promise me if it comes up bad you'll kill your kid?"
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:31 PM   #59
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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I always wanted to know what Dent would have done if his coin came up the bad side on himself. Would he be like "Crap. Gordon, I need to blow my brains out now, so when I'm dead, will you flip my coin again and promise me if it comes up bad you'll kill your kid?"
LOL.

I really, really love that scene. The way Dent points the gun at his head before he flips the coin and says "My turn" is so chilling.

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Old 01-29-2013, 12:29 AM   #60
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I always wanted to know what Dent would have done if his coin came up the bad side on himself. Would he be like "Crap. Gordon, I need to blow my brains out now, so when I'm dead, will you flip my coin again and promise me if it comes up bad you'll kill your kid?"
I don't think he wanted to kill the boy. So, he rigged 'fair' to give the boy the best odds he could ... 25%. If his coin had come up black, he'd have shot himself and been done with it.

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Old 01-29-2013, 06:18 AM   #61
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-Blake becomes Nightwing, Not Batman, but in the process has trouble fighting crime, while he has Bruce's technology, he does not have the same fighting background. Bruce watches from afar, somewhere in Europe as Blake tries to fight crime as Nightwing, but is struggling, because he was not trained as a league of shadows member, therefore, unlike batman he can never truly adopt the dark, or master deception. As a result, Batman/Bruce are re-introduced to assist blake, in taking the mantle as Gotham's new hero. Bruce, has aged and as a result can no longer fight as he once did, Nightwing is captured by a new super villain, so Bruce must find a lazerus pit so he can return his body to it's prime. In the process Bruce rediscovers his passion for saving the city and remains in Gotham for good to help Nightwing fight crime as it has risen again, believing batman was gone for good

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:01 PM   #62
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My issue with thinking of Blake as Nightwing (which i tend to do most of the time) is that i feel it robs Dick Grayson. Only Tim Drake is Red Robin, and only Dick is Nightwing. We have many Robins and Batmans so it's OK. But what if a Nightwing film were to happen? And it's not Dick Grayson? Doesn't feel right.

He's not a killer so i dont think of him as becoming Red Hood or Azrael.

My imagination doesn't lead me to "oh Batmans gonna come back to help out Robin" because that means Rises was meaningless. And how does that relationship end?? With bats retiring once again and giving the full mantle off to Robin eventually?? It's just repeating the TDKR ending.

So in my mind Robin John Blake is his own hero who trains with Lady Shiva (or Bruce) and that's it. Or he's a version of Batman Beyond without copying Terry's exact suit. Fully trained.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:18 PM   #63
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I understand why Dent dies in TDK and I like the story they told with him but part of me likes the comic idea of keeping him alive. Batman and Gordon always kind of a have a unique relationship with him as a criminal because they want to redeem him, knowing the good man he once was. I think they achieved a similar aspect with the way he was handled in TDK but when I first saw the movie, I felt like we never really saw Two Face, just Dent. He was suicidal by the movie's end and never was going to move on a form a criminal identity as Two Face. I had the feeling he was going to die that night no matter what happened. The "this" he is referring is life. There is no escape from the terrible world he has to live in.

I like the idea of Joker being comatose in Arkham like in TDK Returns while Batman is absent for the 8 years but never wakes up.

I like to think Blake is more Terry McGuinnes than Dick Grayson. When Gotham really needs Batman again, it's years later and an older Bruce trains Blake as Batman similar to Ra's and young Bruce.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:21 PM   #64
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

I agree, I wouldn't want to actually see a movie with him as Nightwing because then it does rob Dick Grayson of that spot in a future movie. But as far as imagination goes, I don't have any problem with thinking of Blake as Nightwing, because in the Nolan-verse he effectively is Grayson, Drake and Todd all combined, a new take on the Robin character. Since they adapted elements of Grayson into that character, I figure the Nightwing persona could be just another element.

It's no less valid to imagine him as a Terry-esque Batman though, or some kind of variation of the Batman persona. My reasons for leaning Nightwing are mostly superficial (IE, I think JGL really looks the part, the chalk symbol resembles the Nightwing logo, etc.)

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:22 PM   #65
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oh, here's an easy one:

Blake trains like crazy for several years, learning different martial arts, etc.

(Doesn't have to be 7, like with Bruce, as Blake's already a cop, who's gone through years of police training already)

When the first big bad crops up several years after TDKR, Blake is as ready as Bruce was.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:29 PM   #66
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Yeah sounds good. I like the idea of Blake as a Batman who's an amalgamation of Nolans Bale Bats, Terry Bats and Nightwing. The black and blue colors of Nightwing but armor since it's the nolan-verse. But a bit futuristic with the gadgets and sleeker like the Beyond suit. Also with Bruce training/mentoring him like Beyond but in his "TDKReturns age" instead.

He IS and was Robin. If he can be an amalgamation of all 3 robins, then why not be an amalgam of different Batmans once he gets the cowl?

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:48 PM   #67
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JGL would have made a perfect Dick Grayson and part of me wishes the reveal at the end would have been that, oh your birth name is Dick Grayson not John Blake which would have been believable since he could have been adopted and moved around through orphanages a lot.

But the reason I don't think of him as Nightwing is that these movies are only concerned with Batman and Batman as an everlasting symbol. If Blake were to adopt an new identity other than Batman, even if it's "new Batman" it seems that symbol is lost. Is Nightwing gonna show up when the Bat signal goes off? Why? Why not have a new symbol like his chalk symbol? This leads me to think he is mean to become a new Batman, making Batman a symbol and more than one flesh and blood man.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:50 PM   #68
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

That scene would have taken the flirtation to a whole new level if he was Dick Grayson, lol

"You should use your full name. I like that name. Dick..."

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:07 PM   #69
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JGL would have made a perfect Dick Grayson and part of me wishes the reveal at the end would have been that, oh your birth name is Dick Grayson not John Blake which would have been believable since he could have been adopted and moved around through orphanages a lot.

But the reason I don't think of him as Nightwing is that these movies are only concerned with Batman and Batman as an everlasting symbol. If Blake were to adopt an new identity other than Batman, even if it's "new Batman" it seems that symbol is lost. Is Nightwing gonna show up when the Bat signal goes off? Why? Why not have a new symbol like his chalk symbol? This leads me to think he is mean to become a new Batman, making Batman a symbol and more than one flesh and blood man.
I use to argue with ppl on here on how Blake would become his own kind of crime-fighter, but as i watch the movie (and the trilogy) over and over it seems to me that he has to become Batman. It's very possible that he starts out in a suit that is influenced by Nightwing or Robin, in the same way that Bruce first went out there with the suit and a black mask over his face. But the idea is for him to be Batman if Gotham needs him.

He was just as much of a Tim Drake as he was Dick Grayson though. Even more so. I look at the character as a cross between Tim Drake & Dick Grayson...with the future of Terry McGinnis. He barely has any ties to Jason Todd imo.

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That scene would have taken the flirtation to a whole new level if he was Dick Grayson, lol

"You should use your full name. I like that name. Dick..."
LOL! The people who dont recognize the name would be laughing their asses off in the cinema, thinking the director threw in a sex joke at the climax of the movie just for the sake of being a pervert.

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:18 PM   #70
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He was just as much of a Tim Drake as he was Dick Grayson though. Even more so. I look at the character as a cross between Tim Drake & Dick Grayson...with the future of Terry McGinnis. He barely has any ties to Jason Todd imo.
He is a hothead!

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:30 PM   #71
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Hahaha of course he is!

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Old 01-29-2013, 04:56 PM   #72
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As this is a flight of fancy, I will not dwell on details, but it is nice to think that there was a two year window between that night at the end of TDK and the implementation of the Dent Act where Batman had to remain active in the shadows to take down mobsters like Penguin and Black Mask and other freaks like Joker warned of, say an eco-terrorist named Pamela Isley or a Joker fangirl named Harley Quinn or a serial killer who left riddles, etc. etc. It would also make the wear and tear on Bruce's body (as well as the rebuilt Batcave) at the start of TDKR more logical.

Oh well.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:15 PM   #73
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As this is a flight of fancy, I will not dwell on details, but it is nice to think that there was a two year window between that night at the end of TDK and the implementation of the Dent Act where Batman had to remain active in the shadows to take down mobsters like Penguin and Black Face and other freaks like Joker warned of, say an eco-terrorist named Pamela Isley or a Joker fangirl named Harley Quinn or a serial killer who left riddles, etc. etc. It would also make the wear and tear on Bruce's body (as well as the rebuilt Batcave) at the start of TDKR more logical.

Oh well.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:25 PM   #74
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Touché. I always did find the character a bit racially insensitive in his naming. Must have been subconscious and all that.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:32 PM   #75
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Lol, I was trying to show Black Face.

You are referring to Black Mask though. Not as racially insensitive as Black Face, though, lol.

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