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View Poll Results: Was TDKR a letdown for you?
Yes 98 42.79%
No 131 57.21%
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:51 AM   #526
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

This movie does have a lot of dangling plot lines that never go anywhere I've noticed. In the beginning they mention Gordon being on the chopping block, but then the Mayor dies and that plot point just evaporates.

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Old 01-26-2013, 09:55 AM   #527
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

Not one single reaction from anyone except Blake about the revelation of the big Harvey Dent cover up. Gordon suffers no repercussions at all for it except a brief verbal dressing down from Blake.

I was very disappointed in that. After making such a production about how important Harvey's heroic image was to Gotham, that's all we got when the big lie was exposed.

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:42 AM   #528
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

^ I was disappointed too, but, and as you know since we've gone through rounds about the subject, I was fine with the speech between Blake and Gordon about the Dent lie because it sparked a match inside Blake so to speak that made him realize he can't do more in the GCPD. Other than that, yes, I would have liked to see some Gothamites trash his name during the siege, or after.

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And that's what Nolan doesn't get...in his films Bruce wears a mask. But in the comics the mask and the person are one in the same. He doesn't JUST wear it to hide his identity...the cowl has a life of it's own practically. The cowl and the man are all one.
And it does even in Nolan's trilogy, but I for one very much enjoyed Nolan's take. Like I said before even, it was nothing something I would have expected to have wanted to see, but I am pleased that I have this trilogy now. Bruce Wayne always wanted to create a symbol for Gotham City but then he had to move on, but the spirit of Batman can still be alive through Blake, now.

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4) Nothing about Scarecrow, Nothing heard of the Joker. The entire I am Robin Blake part trash everything.
I feel like no one even watched it, lol.



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Old 01-26-2013, 01:38 PM   #529
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

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^ I was disappointed too, but, and as you know since we've gone through rounds about the subject, I was fine with the speech between Blake and Gordon about the Dent lie because it sparked a match inside Blake so to speak that made him realize he can't do more in the GCPD. Other than that, yes, I would have liked to see some Gothamites trash his name during the siege, or after.
That's what I appreciated about the way that plot line unfolded. It didn't just try to whitewash everything and shove it down our throats that Gordon and Batman did the wrong thing. It had some negative repercussions to be sure, but it didn't dishonor the fact that it was a very morally grey area and a decision made in a time of crisis. Very much like the decision to be Batman in the first place...it definitely had negative repercussions on Gotham, but that doesn't mean it's black/white. This whole storyline reaffirmed the idea that sometimes "the truth isn't good enough", IE the system is far from perfect and sometimes extreme actions need to be taken for the ideal of justice to prevail. Blake finally fully understands all of this by the film's end.

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Old 01-26-2013, 02:56 PM   #530
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

If they didn't want to shove the lie down our throats, they could have at least given us a scene of people tossing stuff at Gordon during his sentencing though.

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Old 01-26-2013, 03:18 PM   #531
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If they didn't want to shove the lie down our throats, they could have at least given us a scene of people tossing stuff at Gordon during his sentencing though.
They definitely could have. I'm not saying there's little things that couldn't have been done differently, but overall I like the approach they took with it. I think Gordon was suffering more internally when he was upholding the lie than when it finally was exposed tbh. At least the truth about Harvey and Batman was finally out there. Bane kind of relieved him of the burden in a certain way. I think he knew that whatever hate Gotham had for him, he probably had coming. But I think he also is strengthened in knowing that he still has morality on his side, because what Bane is using the truth to destroy the very city and ideals he was trying to protect.

I really liked Barsad's little smirk when he tells him, "The people of Gotham."

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Old 01-26-2013, 04:05 PM   #532
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In the comics, Bruce's body doesn't degrade.
A. Obviously his body wasn't degraded enough to prevent him from being somewhat effective as Batman.

B. It most certainly does. Does it degrade due to a single incident or between films? No.
But he's constantly getting injured, piecing himself back together, and having to deal with the physical and mental consequences of his crusade.

Regarding the coverup:

Yes, Gordon is suffering internally. The problem with the whole execution of the idea is that it starts there, and he's already there, and then it never goes anywhere. He never really changes as a character in any sense. Far as I can tell, the coverup has no appreciable impact whatsoever on the people of Gotham. They don't question what they know, or what they've been told, they never have to deal with the fact that their White Knight became a madman (an inifnitely more interesting and powerful concept, its kind of half the point of Two-Face) they're no more inspired than they would otherwise would have been...its just...nothing.

It feels like a Jerry Springer episode. His lie is revealed, but not becaue Gordon had finally decided to come clean. And then he tells Blake that there's a reason he lied...which we already knew to begin with. Blake calls him on what he's done, he only real interesting idea in TDKR regarding the "lie", and instead of exploring the morality of it at all, its basically just an excuse for Gordon to make an overdramatic speech to inspire Blake...a speech which Gordon could easily have made without the lie in the first place, because duh, Batman operates outside the law. The idea of breaking the rules to seek true justice isn't new to the franchise, nor is it particular interesting just because Gary Oldman is shouting about it.

In the end, the message about "Sometimes people deserve more than the truth" (which is nonsense) and the message about "The rules can sometimes limit you" get mixed up and muddled, and both suffert for it. Its all just kind of haphazardly handled.

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:19 PM   #533
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

Not really a letdown, cause I kinda knew going in that it would be very hard for them to top TDK. And yeah, as much as they tried, they didn't.

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:59 PM   #534
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

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A. Obviously his body wasn't degraded enough to prevent him from being somewhat effective as Batman.
Well he has no cartilage in his knees. The doctor jokingly recommends that he shouldn't even be paragliding or whatever, suggesting that any excess physical strain on his body is going to cause even more permanent damage to his body.

In TDKR, Bruce feels he has no other choice and has to eliminate this threat first before he can pass on the mantle. Now that he can pass it on to someone willing and able, it'd be reckless and selfish of him not to.

That's how I saw it anyhow.
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B. It most certainly does. Does it degrade due to a single incident or between films? No.
But he's constantly getting injured, piecing himself back together, and having to deal with the physical and mental consequences of his crusade.
But he always heals. Damage isn't permanent. That's what I mean by 'degrade'. And thus there aren't stories about Batman having to consider passing on the cowl because his body has reached its limit, never to get better. Instead we just have stories where he lends the cowl until he heals.


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Old 01-30-2013, 11:33 PM   #535
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

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I feel like no one even watched it, lol.


Anno_Domini, excuse me. I watched it three or four times. There was no resolution about Dr. Crane. It seems Scarecrow was just a useless throw away character. Next time, try not mocking anyone.

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Old 01-30-2013, 11:50 PM   #536
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

Mocking? Like...calling someone a Nolanite? Like THAT? Oh....kay.

Anywho...there didn't need to be a resolution to Dr. Crane since it was just a fun cameo of Crane who didn't even have his Scarecrow gear, so how is he a threat even to get resolution?

Not mocking, proving you wrong when you simply said "nothing about Scarecrow" and you didn't even mention for any resolution or conclusion to him either. Now, if you elaborated yourself, you could say I was "mocking you".

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Old 01-31-2013, 12:09 AM   #537
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

Why do people continue to nitpick this film?

Let's just go crazy....

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The Avengers sucks because the Hulk plotline doesn't make any sense what so ever because they never explain how Banner has some control over the Hulk at the end of the film when he was going crazy and trying to kill Black Widow and Thor earlier?

The Dark Knight sucks because how the hell does The Joker magically get all of those ****ing oil drums all over the place, in the basement of a hospital, in the ferries, etc... without anyone knowing? What really happens when Batman saves Rachel after Joker throws her out a window, how the hell do they survive the fall? Who are the supposed "five dead" at the end? etc...

And if you want to complain about Bruce's financial problems in TDKR keeping him from getting back to Gotham, how about Bruce making it all the way out to Asia in Batman Begins without his financial resources because he threw away his wallet and obviously they couldn't have declared him dead if he did access his money during the time he was away.

No one is in the room at the beginning of the movie Citizen Kane when Kane says Rosebud, so how the hell does anyone know that Rosebud was his last words, which is the catalyst for the entire movie?

How come in Casablanca, the Letters of Transit are never used in any meaningful fashion what-so-ever, despite being the major maguffin for the film???


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Old 01-31-2013, 10:58 AM   #538
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamill-Joker View Post
Why do people continue to nitpick this film?

Let's just go crazy....

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The Avengers sucks because the Hulk plotline doesn't make any sense what so ever because they never explain how Banner has some control over the Hulk at the end of the film when he was going crazy and trying to kill Black Widow and Thor earlier?

The Dark Knight sucks because how the hell does The Joker magically get all of those ****ing oil drums all over the place, in the basement of a hospital, in the ferries, etc... without anyone knowing? What really happens when Batman saves Rachel after Joker throws her out a window, how the hell do they survive the fall? Who are the supposed "five dead" at the end? etc...

And if you want to complain about Bruce's financial problems in TDKR keeping him from getting back to Gotham, how about Bruce making it all the way out to Asia in Batman Begins without his financial resources because he threw away his wallet and obviously they couldn't have declared him dead if he did access his money during the time he was away.

No one is in the room at the beginning of the movie Citizen Kane when Kane says Rosebud, so how the hell does anyone know that Rosebud was his last words, which is the catalyst for the entire movie?

How come in Casablanca, the Letters of Transit are never used in any meaningful fashion what-so-ever, despite being the major maguffin for the film???
This is great, and everybody should read this because all everybody does is nitpick these movies. Especially TDKR. Look at Casablanca or Citizen Kane (which are amongst the greatest films of all time) AND many others that could be mentioned...and tell me you cant come up with plot holes.

Nothing i hate more on a forum than a constant nitpicker.

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Old 01-31-2013, 11:01 AM   #539
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

Yea I consider it a letdown. It wasn't the movie I thought I was going to get or wanted to get. It didn't exceed or meet my expectations. But this is not the same as being bad. I still enjoyed it.

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Old 01-31-2013, 11:18 AM   #540
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

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Mocking? Like...calling someone a Nolanite? Like THAT? Oh....kay.

Anywho...there didn't need to be a resolution to Dr. Crane since it was just a fun cameo of Crane who didn't even have his Scarecrow gear, so how is he a threat even to get resolution?
The point is that we wanted him to be a threat, not just a tiny cameo or a goofy lackey.

Waste of potential.

It's too bad Burton never did Scarecrow.

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Old 01-31-2013, 11:26 AM   #541
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

I think Scarecrow had a good run, albeit brief in Begins. One of my favorite scenes is the first confrontation of him and Batman.

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Old 01-31-2013, 12:14 PM   #542
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

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I think Scarecrow had a good run, albeit brief in Begins. One of my favorite scenes is the first confrontation of him and Batman.
Yeah, they seemed to have the right idea at first, I loved that scene too. But they quickly turned him into less of a threat and more of a joke.

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Old 01-31-2013, 12:19 PM   #543
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

Batman Begins - threat

The Dark Knight - lesser threat

The Dark Knight Rises - fun cameo; zero threat

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Old 01-31-2013, 01:17 PM   #544
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

I would hesitate to give him credit as a 'lesser threat' in TDK. He's just a loose end that gets practically bulldozed by Batman. Not only that, he's just trafficking his drugs to crooks. Not exactly threatening. He's painfully small time, and brief.

Not that I didn't like seeing him again, but let's be honest, he's just there to introduce Batman's return to the audience.

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Old 01-31-2013, 01:23 PM   #545
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

That part about Citizen Kane actually always bothered me. How does anyone know?

I always thought the movie was boring and...nope, just boring.

However I also think Lawrence of Arabia is the greatest movie ever, and every girl I've tried showing it to tells me how boring it is. Kids these days.

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Old 01-31-2013, 01:30 PM   #546
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

I still think that selling his fear toxin laced drugs is very twisted. There is an episode on Gotham Tonight devoted to this issue.

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Old 01-31-2013, 03:34 PM   #547
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

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I would hesitate to give him credit as a 'lesser threat' in TDK. He's just a loose end that gets practically bulldozed by Batman. Not only that, he's just trafficking his drugs to crooks. Not exactly threatening. He's painfully small time, and brief.

Not that I didn't like seeing him again, but let's be honest, he's just there to introduce Batman's return to the audience.
Doesn't really matter if Batman bulldozed Scarecrow; Crane was selling drugs to low level mobsters. That's a big deal to be a threat, and while not major, that's why I said just 'lesser threat'.

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Old 01-31-2013, 04:17 PM   #548
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamill-Joker View Post
Why do people continue to nitpick this film?

Let's just go crazy....

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The Avengers sucks because the Hulk plotline doesn't make any sense what so ever because they never explain how Banner has some control over the Hulk at the end of the film when he was going crazy and trying to kill Black Widow and Thor earlier?

The Dark Knight sucks because how the hell does The Joker magically get all of those ****ing oil drums all over the place, in the basement of a hospital, in the ferries, etc... without anyone knowing? What really happens when Batman saves Rachel after Joker throws her out a window, how the hell do they survive the fall? Who are the supposed "five dead" at the end? etc...

And if you want to complain about Bruce's financial problems in TDKR keeping him from getting back to Gotham, how about Bruce making it all the way out to Asia in Batman Begins without his financial resources because he threw away his wallet and obviously they couldn't have declared him dead if he did access his money during the time he was away.

No one is in the room at the beginning of the movie Citizen Kane when Kane says Rosebud, so how the hell does anyone know that Rosebud was his last words, which is the catalyst for the entire movie?

How come in Casablanca, the Letters of Transit are never used in any meaningful fashion what-so-ever, despite being the major maguffin for the film???
I'm going to assume you are being facetious about Avengers, seeing as that subplot had a very obvious explanation, it just required the viewer to pay attention and interpret what was happening, rather than be given a convenient bit of shining neon exposition.

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Old 01-31-2013, 04:22 PM   #549
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

I think it was a joke.

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Old 01-31-2013, 10:54 PM   #550
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I'm going to assume you are being facetious about Avengers, seeing as that subplot had a very obvious explanation, it just required the viewer to pay attention and interpret what was happening, rather than be given a convenient bit of shining neon exposition.
Whedonite is pissed.

And before you get on my case...what I said was a joke too

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