Actors from original trilogy on First Class sequel with Days of Future Past - Part 2

[DigificWriter]

I hadn't considered the whole 'mutant and proud' angle, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Mystique abandoning Nightcrawler would be a contradiction.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

Now you are the one who is assuming too much.

...Im brain storming ideas on how it could work. Im not assuming that that is what happens. Its much more open minded than simply "noitwontworkandnothingwillconvincemeothwrwise!!!! " like you seem to think

[psylockolussus]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

I think it actually also develops mystique as well and shows why she ends up the way she did. They obviously also have to explain a much greater hatred imo for xavier , the closest thing to family she ever had. XFC set it up but i don't think it was enough to make her how she was in X1

Hatred? I didn't know she hated Professor X. Just because they were in different sides, it doesn't mean its personal. She did poison Xavier in X1, but she was merely following Magneto's order.

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

...Im brain storming ideas on how it could work. Im not assuming that that is what happens. Its much more open minded than simply "noitwontworkandnothingwillconvincemeothwrwise!!!! " like you seem to think

Assuming Azazel would rape Mystique is too much.

[Great Mind(s)]

"Mutant and proud" Mystique could still abandon baby Nightcrawler. I mean, she doesn't have to act 1 dimensional all the time. Maybe she knows both that raising a child in a hostile terrorist organization is a bad thing and that it's not going to be easy for a mutant baby like him to grow up in a normal society...so she abandons him with a circus or something.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

Hatred? I didn't know she hated Professor X. Just because they were in different sides, it doesn't mean its personal. She did poison Xavier in X1, but she was merely following Magneto's order.

Well because XFC gave us a pretty deep xavier / mystique connection (which honestly wasn't needed) they kinda have to explain why neither one of them talk to the other in the OT .... The lack of talking to a man that essentially was your sibling imo means there's quite alot of animosity there

[spideyboy_1111]

Assuming Azazel would rape Mystique is too much.

At least it'd explain alot ... Its probably the most drastic way... But its just one example of many

[Hawkingbird]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

Hatred? I didn't know she hated Professor X. Just because they were in different sides, it doesn't mean its personal. She did poison Xavier in X1, but she was merely following Magneto's order.



Assuming Azazel would rape Mystique is too much.

Yeah, a bit too dark.

[DigificWriter]

Given Mystique's characterization in the films, I can very easily envision a scenario where Kurt is born 'normal' and Erik convinced Mystique to kill the child by abandoning him to die through exposure to the elements, only for the Wagners to find and raise him, with his mutant powers and abnormal appearance only later manifesting themselves.

[EnDz0n3]

Originally Posted by DigificWriter

^ Acknowledging the source material, which both Singer and FOX have independently shown a proclivity for doing. It would also retroactively add to and enhance Nightcrawler's characterization, particularly if they were to follow up on it, even if only briefly, in another film.

Considering Azazel is not a very good character to begin with and a horrendous character (read: joke character, written by a joke of a writer Chuck Austen) in the comics, I doubt fans of the "source material" are clamouring to see that character have a bigger part in this franchise as it stands.

[lordofthenerds]

Originally Posted by DigificWriter

Given Mystique's characterization in the films, I can very easily envision a scenario where Kurt is born 'normal' and Erik convinced Mystique to kill the child by abandoning him to die through exposure to the elements, only for the Wagners to find and raise him, with his mutant powers and abnormal appearance only later manifesting themselves.

That would make both characters incredibly stupid and rash. The prior films made it clear mutations usually manifest themselves at puberty. Magneto and Mystique should know this.

[BMM]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

Now you are the one who is assuming too much.

Not really. spideyboy is right. Giving up a child is circumstantial. Anybody with any life experience knows that a multitude of emotions often can and do arise when a woman gives birth to a child, especially her first, and those easily outweigh the "mutant and proud" slogan that was parroted throughout First Class. Just because Mystique is mutant and proud, and leaves with Erik on that beach, doesn't mean she wants to raise a child in that environment. Maybe she gives him up, knowing that is what is best for him. That's certainly keeping in line with some of the Raven we see in First Class. Conversely, maybe Mystique wants nothing to do with her son. 11 years later, maybe she takes a more hardened approach and gives him up because she doesn't want him holding her back, which would be in line with the Mystique we see in the original trilogy. There are a number of ways they can handle it, if they choose to address it at all.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by lordofthenerds

That would make both characters incredibly stupid and rash. The prior films made it clear mutations usually manifest themselves at puberty. Magneto and Mystique should know this.

Except in FC young xavier and mystique already had there abilities and were both prepubecent.... And appeared to possibly of had those abilities for at least a little while

[DigificWriter]

Regarding why Mystique and Xavier don't talk to each other during the events of the OXT, I can very easily see her 'us vs. them' mentality only deepening, and Xavier's noble insistence on trying to 'build bridges' leading her to view him as an enemy and consequently bury any affection she held for him. I can also conceivably see Xavier learning of that and being deeply hurt by it, but not 'forcing the issue', as it were.

lordofthenerds, Mystique has very deep-set anger issues when it comes to humans. First Class and the OXT make this clear, and I think it is therefore very much in character for both her and Magneto to behave in the manner I talked about above.

[lordofthenerds]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

Except in FC young xavier and mystique already had there abilities and were both prepubecent.... And appeared to possibly of had those abilities for at least a little while

They would still know better.

Unless you're saying that XFC made a continuity error (which is completely understandable), and now all mutants are born with their powers at birth.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by BMM

Not really. spideyboy is right. Giving up a child is circumstantial. Anybody with any life experience knows that a multitude of emotions often can and do arise when a woman gives birth to a child, especially her first, and those easily outweigh the "mutant and proud" slogan that was parroted throughout First Class. Just because Mystique is mutant and proud, and leaves with Erik on that beach, doesn't mean she wants to raise a child in that environment. Maybe she gives him up, knowing that is what is best for him. That's certainly keeping in line with some of the Raven we see in First Class. Conversely, maybe Mystique wants nothing to do with her son. 11 years later, maybe she takes a more hardened approach and gives him up because she doesn't want him holding her back, which would be in line with the Mystique we see in the original trilogy. There are a number of ways they can handle it, if they choose to address it at all.

Exactly. Also, there is the possibility that mystique goes to the extreme of distancing herself from humans by voiding herself of human emotions like "love and compassion" singer also purposely gave mystique and NC a scene in X2 very well knowing she's his mother. What if that line of "we shouldn't have to" is the one act of motherhood mystique gives to NC while at the same time refusing to acknowledge that she knows he's her son.

[lordofthenerds]

Originally Posted by DigificWriter

lordofthenerds, Mystique has very deep-set anger issues when it comes to humans. First Class and the OXT make this clear, and I think it is therefore very much in character for both her and Magneto to behave in the manner I talked about above.

I agree, but that wasn't the point. How would they know the child wasn't a mutant if most of them don't show any signs of mutation until puberty?

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by lordofthenerds

They would still know better.

Unless you're saying that XFC made a continuity error (which is completely understandable), and now all mutants are born with their powers at birth.

In the comics its both though. Xaiver even states on film "most powers manifest at puberty" key word... "most" . Charles, Raven, and Kurt in the comics were always told to have been born with there abilities. The movie series obviously gave movie xavier and mystique that same trait

[DigificWriter]

Another angle to consider is that, because of his own sexual orientation and life experiences, Singer has very much infused the films he's been involved in thus far with an emphasis on the parallels between mutantkind and the LBGT community, particularly the negative prejudices that many LBGT individuals face, and has even sort of reversed those prejudices to some degree with regards to Magneto and Mystique.

[lordofthenerds]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

In the comics its both though. Waiver even states on film "most powers manifest at puberty" key word... "most" . Charles, Raven, and Kurt in the comics were always told to have been born with there abilities. The movie series obviously gave movie xavier and mystique that same trait

But Magneto is a very intelligent and well-informed mutant. The fact that most mutants develop their powers well after birth would be enough for him to realize that the baby Mystique just conceived could likely be a mutant.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by lordofthenerds

But Magneto is a very intelligent and well-informed mutant. The fact that most mutants develop their powers well after birth would be enough for him to realize that the baby Mystique just conceived could likely be a mutant.

Im not basing my ideas of Kurt being born looking human though...

[lordofthenerds]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

Im not basing my ideas of Kurt being born looking human though...

I wasn't arguing with your ideas. I was arguing with the idea that Mystique and Magneto leave her baby to die because they believe she conceived a human.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by lordofthenerds

I wasn't arguing with your ideas. I was arguing with the idea that Mystique and Magneto leave her baby to die because they believe she conceived a human.

That's the plot hole in that reasoning... Which is why imo NC shouldn't be born human.

[Mrs Vimes]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

They obviously also have to explain a much greater hatred imo for xavier , the closest thing to family she ever had.

I never really got an impression that Mystique hated Xavier in the original trilogy. More that she just didn't really have any feelings towards him. After all that whole relationship did not even ever exist when they were making the trilogy, and Mystique was not exactly chatty or confessional on most subjects.

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

At least it'd explain alot ... (rape) is probably the most drastic way... But its just one example of many

It is absolutely appalling and DISGUSTING that people keep bringing this up as a possibility. Rape is NOT A PLOT DEVICE, people. Movies that involve it address the weight and horror of it. They're not using it because they need one of their characters to get pregnant. For the love of god stop suggesting it.

[Great Mind(s)]

Well he's the devil isn't he? Kind of symbolism there.