The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

[Willie Lumpkin]

I've given up on the crazy hope that Marvel would get the rights (snowball's chance in hell) and shifted to the crazy hope that Fox will learn from their past mistakes, hire the right people and invest what's needed to do it right (snowball's chance in Phoenix).

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Originally Posted by Zarex

Need is too strong a word. But as with investing, the past successes of the MCU does not guarantee that the good times will continue. The MCU is riding high now, but future franchises like GOTG and Ant Man could underperform in comparison to their Phase 1 counterparts. I would suspect Disney/Marvel would welcome a solid if unspectacular franchise like the FF.

And just think of the on-screen battles that the FF rights reversion would open up - Thing vs. Hulk, Surfer vs. Thor, Dr. Doom vs the Avengers, Galactus vs. everybody. You would open up a whole new world of stories for Feige & company to explore, so hopefully Fox & Disney/Marvel will realize both companies will be better off working together than as adversaries.

It wouldn't surprise me if these films fell short of Cap and Thor at the B.O., so I highly doubt Marvel would be either. Falling short would not make them disappointments (if the films are good and can build on the fanbase). It's all about the long term vision with these guys, the overall fabric of the universe. They are builders and certainly don't seem like visionless bean counters who would quickly alter strategy after disappointment (unless it was colossal). It would have been much more likey to happen as the indy studio back in '08 and not the current studio who are backed by the worlds biggest entertainment company. The MCU will only get bigger and better in the coming years and I really don't see how the good times will discontinue unless they lose the plot completely. In other words, people will lose interest in the genre only if it becomes stagnant creatively. There hasn't been a studio in existence that hasn't had a disappointment, it's just the law of averages. And there have definitely been some growing pains over the last 5 years for Marvel Studios, but I think (and HOPE) that as the universe takes greater shape in the coming years, that individual expression (vision) will take greater priority over the current Marvel mold that these films are being fit into (which is obviously necessary to build a proper and legitimate universe). So in the mean time I am more then happy that Spidey, X-Men and FF are at their respective studios.

[spideyboy_1111]

under-performing is a careful word... under-performing expectations is bad... but under-performing a higher profile film... certainly is not.

you'd be absolutely crazy to think Ant-Man will out perform any of the past films. That being said... im 99% sure it's why they coupled it with Avengers... it's less risk because avengers WILL make bank, so the risk of ant-man isn't so bad

[Hawkingbird]

My heart sunk when I saw this thread...

[kaijunexus]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

My heart sunk when I saw this thread...

Why?

[metaphysician]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

under-performing is a careful word... under-performing expectations is bad... but under-performing a higher profile film... certainly is not.

you'd be absolutely crazy to think Ant-Man will out perform any of the past films. That being said... im 99% sure it's why they coupled it with Avengers... it's less risk because avengers WILL make bank, so the risk of ant-man isn't so bad

It also means that the MCU is strongly in the mind of everyone, which hopefully means a larger quantity of people will go "Ant-Man sounds weird, but I want more Marvel!" and try it out.

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't really think the GA cares as much about connecting all the movies...

That being said... I do think hank and/or Jan should appear in avengers to piggy back and roll up some excitement for the solo

[kaijunexus]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

I don't really think the GA cares as much about connecting all the movies...

Tell that to every member of the general audience who was asking "where's Spider-Man?" during The Avengers...

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by kaijunexus

Tell that to every member of the general audience who was asking "where's Spider-Man?" during The Avengers...

.... That's irelevant. Marvel and spiderman are as synonymous as batman and dc. ppeople 1) don't understand the movie studio system 2) they'd react the same if batman didn't show up in a JLA film..

Them not being educated on the subject doesn't mean they follow allte marvel films

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by SoNicRaDiATioN

It wouldn't surprise me if these films fell short of Cap and Thor at the B.O., so I highly doubt Marvel would be either. Falling short would not make them disappointments (if the films are good and can build on the fanbase). It's all about the long term vision with these guys, the overall fabric of the universe. They are builders and certainly don't seem like visionless bean counters who would quickly alter strategy after disappointment (unless it was colossal). It would have been much more likey to happen as the indy studio back in '08 and not the current studio who are backed by the worlds biggest entertainment company. The MCU will only get bigger and better in the coming years and I really don't see how the good times will discontinue unless they lose the plot completely. In other words, people will lose interest in the genre only if it becomes stagnant creatively. There hasn't been a studio in existence that hasn't had a disappointment, it's just the law of averages. And there have definitely been some growing pains over the last 5 years for Marvel Studios, but I think (and HOPE) that as the universe takes greater shape in the coming years, that individual expression (vision) will take greater priority over the current Marvel mold that these films are being fit into (which is obviously necessary to build a proper and legitimate universe). So in the mean time I am more then happy that Spidey, X-Men and FF are at their respective studios.

Nah. I think by 2015 (the same year as Avengers 2) Ant-Man will be on par with the numbers Captain America:TFA did. Which was by no means phenomenal. But definitely successful. Also, I see GotG, with Thanos' and Rocket Racoon's help doing just as well as Thor.

Originally Posted by metaphysician

It also means that the MCU is strongly in the mind of everyone, which hopefully means a larger quantity of people will go "Ant-Man sounds weird, but I want more Marvel!" and try it out.

I agree meta, the GA are becoming bigger and bigger nerds. Who would've thought 4 years ago that "Arc Reactor" and "Cosmic Cube" would have cultural relevance. Or that Tom Hiddleston's "Loki" would be a pop icon that tween girls obsess over. What I mean is, the GA are going to be as excited about this MCU series as some have been about Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, The Dark Knight and Harry Potter. GotG and Ant-Man will do just fine methinks.

Originally Posted by Willie Lumpkin

I've given up on the crazy hope that Marvel would get the rights (snowball's chance in hell) and shifted to the crazy hope that Fox will learn from their past mistakes, hire the right people and invest what's needed to do it right (snowball's chance in Phoenix).

And I'm in complete agreement with you too Willie. While the idea of F4 at fox scares me to no end, I don't mind giving them a second chance. Just like I gave Sony a second chance with Spidey and imo, it paid off.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

Nah. I think by 2015 (the same year as Avengers 2) Ant-Man will be on par with the numbers Captain America:TFA did. Which was by no means phenomenal. But definitely successful. Also, I see GotG, with Thanos' and Rocket Racoon's help doing just as well as Thor.

You may be right and it certainly wouldn't surprise me, but Ant-Man doesn't have the name brand as Cap so I wouldn't be shocked if it were under. But the underlying point of my post (which plays to what you wrote) was to say that Marvel in their universe-building enterprise are building up the Marvel brand to the point that even small or obscure charaters like Ant-Man or GoTG can have a greater impact simply by being under the umbrella of their shared universe. That's a testament to the vision.

[Hawkingbird]

Originally Posted by kaijunexus

Why?

Because considering it will never happen, this is getting tiresome.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by kaijunexus

Tell that to every member of the general audience who was asking "where's Spider-Man?" during The Avengers...

I would venture to say that the average moviegoer, only knows about Marvel because it comes up at the beginning of the movie, has never read an Avenger's comic book, and has no idea that Spidey should, or should not be a part of it.

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by Kelly

I would venture to say that the average moviegoer, only knows about Marvel because it comes up at the beginning of the movie, has never read an Avenger's comic book, and has no idea that Spidey should, or should not be a part of it.

Yeah, the Marvel at the beginning of each of these movies doesn't help either, because it can lead them to believe that they're all made by Marvel Studios.

And yes, I think a lot of average moviegoers don't realise the Avengers is even a comic, but that the movie was just a teamup (thought up by the studio) where they decided to throw everyone together to get an even bigger return. To ask "where is Spider-Man?" is a reasonable question. I'm sure some might even ask "where is Superman and Batman?"

[Gabe99]

Fox closes $400 million co-financing pact
Deal will help fund the next two 'Avatar' films

Originally Posted by Rachel Abrams

Exclusive: Marking the first slate financing arrangement to close since the financial meltdown of 2008, 20th Century Fox has made a deal for just north of $400 million to help fund nearly all its films over the next five years, including the next two "Avatar" pics, multiple sources have confirmed to Variety.

New deal also marks Fox's first major financing under the sole chairmanship of Jim Gianopulos, who took over running the studio after co-topper Tom Rothman left his post at the end of last year. The duo ran the studio at the time of its first pact with Dune.

James Cameron's Fantastic Four!!!!

[YoungPrime]

Originally Posted by Gabe99

Fox closes $400 million co-financing pact
Deal will help fund the next two 'Avatar' films

James Cameron's Fantastic Four!!!!

I'd rather they focused on this film than ruin a F4 reboot.

But if there's no hope in that then there's still hope that it will simply bomb.... It'll be our way of tell FOX since F4 fans well get nothing out of this reboot than neither will you!

[kaijunexus]

From the Hollywoodreporter.com...

Author and screenwriter Seth Grahame-Smith has done polish screenwriting work on Fox’s reboot of Fantastic Four, which Josh Trank is directing.

Matthew Vaughn recently came on board to produce the Marvel superhero-based project, which is priority for the studio.

Created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby in 1961, Fantastic Four features a “family” of heroes -- scientist Mr. Fantastic; his wife, Invisible Girl; her brother, the Human Torch; and Fantastic’s best friend, the Thing -- who have sci-fi-tinged adventures.
Fox made two movies with a cast that included Chris Evans and Jessica Alba in 2005 and 2007, but despite doing solid business, they were not well regarded by the geek community.

Sources say that the new reboot is taking a grounded superhero and sci-fi approach to the heroes and will tap deep into the comics mythology, which featured not just the better-known villains such as Doctor Doom and Galactus but also alien races the Kree and the Skrull, and the anti-matter universe known as the Negative Zone.

Jeremy Slater wrote the initial script.

Grahame-Smith is the best-selling author behind Pride and Prejudice and Zombies and Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter, the latter of which was adapted by Fox last year. The multi-medium maven penned the script for the movie as well as the script for Dark Shadows, Tim Burton's take on the 1970s vampire soap opera.

I think this article offers two potentially promising developments in terms of getting the FF back to Marvel...

A. Seth Grahame-Smith is a **** screenplay author. If you've seen his two previous fims (Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter and Dark Shadows), you may be inclined to agree. So, if he really butchers this script, Fox may see fit to have yet another script writer try to doctor it up...and we all know that too many cooks in the kitchen can spoil the meal. In the end, Fox may really hate the finished script and feel the need to start over, which would buy us some time.

B. Fox is considering using the Skrulls and the Kree in this film?! Don't those properties still lie with Marvel Studios? If they do, Fox may be crossing certain lines in their contract with Marvel, which could give Marvel Studios some leverage in forcing the rights back due to a voided contract!

Now, obviously, these are pretty big stretches and I'm really reaching here...but I wouldn't say either of these scenarios are completely out of the realm of possibility.

KEEP THE HOPE ALIVE!!!

[Dr Tactics]

Originally Posted by kaijunexus

From the Hollywoodreporter.com...



I think this article offers two potentially promising developments in terms of getting the FF back to Marvel...

A. Seth Grahame-Smith is a **** screenplay author. If you've seen his two previous fims (Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter and Dark Shadows), you may be inclined to agree. So, if he really butchers this script, Fox may see fit to have yet another script writer try to doctor it up...and we all know that too many cooks in the kitchen can spoil the meal. In the end, Fox may really hate the finished script and feel the need to start over, which would buy us some time.

B. Fox is considering using the Skrulls and the Kree in this film?! Don't those properties still lie with Marvel Studios? If they do, Fox may be crossing certain lines in their contract with Marvel, which could give Marvel Studios some leverage in forcing the rights back due to a voided contract!

Now, obviously, these are pretty big stretches and I'm really reaching here...but I wouldn't say either of these scenarios are completely out of the realm of possibility.

KEEP THE HOPE ALIVE!!!

Well Feige was quoted

Feige: Yes, Skrulls have a big connection to Fantastic Four. So there are some contractual limitations about who can do what when it comes to Skrulls. Though that is not why we didn’t do Skrulls. There is already enough going on in this movie.

Thats kind of the same limitations/grey area that Peitro and Wanda Maximoffs has between the X-Universe and the MCU in which Feige stated

“It’s a little complicated, but if they [Fox, which holds the X-Men rights] want to use them in the X-Men movie they could, [but] if we want to use them in The Avengers movie, we could.” - See more at: http://spinoff.comicbookresources.co....kmhrY1K3.dpuf

So Fox is playing any angle they feel they can get away with because I have no idea who really owns the Kree. This will actually become a bigger mess because then Fox will be splitting up the Marvel Cosmic Universe as a whole which will either limit what the MCU can do or will actually not allow the script as it will be currently written to get past the Fox Legal dept and will delay production due to a rewrite..

Its all grey and there just isn't enough info to really know what's going on..

[spideyboy_1111]

keep in mind as well... that there's no way they're doing Doom/Galactus/Kree/Skrull/Negative Zone all in one movie either

[Dr Tactics]

Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111

keep in mind as well... that there's no way they're doing Doom/Galactus/Kree/Skrull/Negative Zone all in one movie either

Though that correct, it's not uncommon to loosely plan out the trilogy as to plan the cliff hanger/post credit scene in the current film

So why just do a one and out film or just a rehash of the previous two films due to rights restrictions?

[spideyboy_1111]

I think Negative Zone will surely happen in this film (if it doesn't come crashing down)

[Zarex]

It's frustrating that FOX and Disney/Marvel haven't reached an agreement to work together on this project. Here's a few reasons why they should:

1) Release Date - The anticipated opening date of the FF reboot is just 56 days before the release of the Avengers sequel, meaning that those of us with spouses/life partners/girlfriends/boyfriends who don't post to Supherohype will need to convince them to see two Marvel team-up films within two months. Or just wait for one of them (not the Avengers sequel) to come out on video. FOX may move the film to later in the summer if the anticipated Star Wars and/or JL movies are delayed, though that may put the film up against the Pirates of the Caribbean and Avatar sequels.

2) Merchandising - The previous FF films came with tons of merchandise in general merchandise stores - t-shirts, backpacks, Fantasticar playsets, stretchable Mr. Fantastics, poseable Thing action figures, Thing hands and feet, Human Torch gloves and masks, etc. I can't see Disney setting aside shelf space reserved for Avengers and Star Wars merchandise for FF stuff, meaning FOX won't make any money from ancillary sales (assuming FOX/Marvel shared merchandising sales in the same way Marvel previously did with Sony). Also, the film won't get any benefit from this promotion.

3) Phase 3 - Marvel's future projects (Ant Man, GOTG) are getting increasingly risky. I'm certain the studio would love to have a solid, if unspectacular franchise like the FF in order to keep the studio's successes coming. The franchise also comes with A-list villains (Dr. Doom, Galactus) that can keep the other heroes busy during the FF's downtime.

4) Shared Universe -There's talk that the Masters of Evil may play a role in the Avengers sequel. Replace them with the expanded FF and you've really got my attention - Thing vs. Hulk! Torch vs. Iron Man! Thor vs. Silver Surfer! Black Panther vs. Cap! And after the two groups kiss and make up - the plot in my head has Nick Fury tricking the Avengers into attacking the FF because he wants to "deactivate" young Franklin - they can gather together in Ben's apartment for a game of poker.

5) Post Credit Scene - If not featured in the film, what better promotion is there for the FF reboot than to feature the team in the Avengers 2 post credit scene? Fury appears on a large monitor in a laboratory and tells the team he has a mission for them - a head and neck stretches toward the monitor, a woman appears out of nowhere, a flaming man touches down and an enormous rocky monster appears out of the shadows. Give the Marvel/FOX FF the spring slot previously occupied by Iron Man and watch the money roll in.

6) X-Men - Unless The Wolverine and DOFP flop completely, this franchise appears to be going nowhere. And I don't really mind - in my opinion FOX has released one great X-Men film (X2), two very good ones (X-Men, XMFC) and two entertaining but frustrating messes (XMOW, X-3). Also, the MCU and the X-Men universe doesn't mesh together all that well, even in the comics. Marvel can help FOX strengthen this franchise by giving them (limited time) rights to characters such as Cable, Wonder Man (Beast-Wondy bromance!), Wanda & Pietro.

Right now, it appears as though FOX is going it alone, and may even attempt to mash together their FF and X-Men franchises. It seems like a huge mistake, but we shall see.

[metaphysician]

None of which changes the fact that it is not in either party's interest to make such a deal. Sure, Fox wants to tie into the megahit MCU franchise, but they have nothing to offer other than rights, which are only useful insofar as they are unencumbered. "Shared" rights are a booby trap, allowing whichever party is not making the movie to coerce the other party by threatening to contest the usage of the rights.

[spideyboy_1111]

Originally Posted by metaphysician

None of which changes the fact that it is not in either party's interest to make such a deal. Sure, Fox wants to tie into the megahit MCU franchise, but they have nothing to offer other than rights, which are only useful insofar as they are unencumbered. "Shared" rights are a booby trap, allowing whichever party is not making the movie to coerce the other party by threatening to contest the usage of the rights.

Worked out pretty well for hulk at universal and marvel with paramount....

Shared rights arnt a bad thing if its all mapped out about who controls what

[marvelrobbins]

It's not In Disney's intrest to make deals with any studio.

Some are forgetting relations with Disney and Fox may be even worse because they bought Lucasfilm.Who was distributer of past live action Star Wars films?Fox.Why do you
think 3-d rerelease of more star wars films was cancleded?Fox keeps right to distribute exsisting films till 2020.And even then they still keep the first Star Wars film rights=A new hope.

People just want Fox to turn over FF to disney with no benefet to them.

And with Disney buying companys why would they even want to make a deal with another studio.

The only way a deal could be worked out If one studio gets theatical domestic distribution and another International distribution.And both studios have equal say In film.