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Old 02-03-2013, 11:07 PM   #201
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Default Re: The Season 5 Discussion Thread

Dooku is officially his current apprentice but it wouldn't surprise me if Palps set up a showdown between Anakin and Maul.

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Old 02-03-2013, 11:33 PM   #202
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Default Re: The Season 5 Discussion Thread

Wow, sad to see
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Savage, Satine, & Pre Vizla
go the last couple episodes.

I thought Savage
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
reverting to his original form/look and showing Talzin's magic
was a good touch and nice continuity---anybody think Talzin will show up again.

I'd like to see Dooku and Talzin bury the hatchet and form some sort of short term alliance.

I could also see Sidious manipulate Maul against Dooku as a test for a "true" apprentice----of course before Anakin.

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Old 02-04-2013, 02:34 AM   #203
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Default Re: The Season 5 Discussion Thread

Right, Dooku! Forgot all about him. I do love him too, he's great every time he shows up.

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Old 02-04-2013, 09:25 AM   #204
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Dooku is officially his current apprentice but it wouldn't surprise me if Palps set up a showdown between Anakin and Maul.
U think? my initial feeling is that he'll try and use Maul to try and get rid of Obi-Wan, something along the lines of "If u want to get back in my good graces, u must destroy Kenobi". At this point, i just dont think Sidious cares much for Maul or is interested in taking him in, but will use him to further his agenda while he can.

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Old 02-04-2013, 10:17 PM   #205
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Default Re: The Season 5 Discussion Thread

I have a feeling (after watching the ending of the last episode) that Maul will do anything do anything to get back into his good graces with The Emperor and Palpy will want him to kill someone close to Anakin to bring him closer to the dark side..Ahsoka (my friend actually came up with this idea)

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Old 02-05-2013, 09:59 AM   #206
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Default Re: The Season 5 Discussion Thread

Maybe Palapatine will send Maul after Padme?

Now that we've been discussing Dooku, if Maul does have to go I wouldn't mind if Dooku is the one to do the deed.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:01 PM   #207
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Dont know if you all read this: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/...-along-the-way

Star Wars: The Clone Wars' Dave Filoni Talks about the Death Watch/Darth Maul Arc and the Casualties Along the Way

Star Wars fans are still buzzing about the huge events that went down in the most recent story arc on the show, focused on Darth Maul and Death Watch’s plan to take over Mandalore – which culminated in an incredible three-way lightsaber battle between Maul, Savage Opress and Darth Sidious in the episode "The Lawless" and included several big deaths before the arc was over.

In the wake of all of this occurring, I spoke to The Clone Wars’ supervising director, Dave Filoni, about all of these plot twists and how they came about. Suffice to say, if you haven't seen all of this arc, major spoilers follow!

IGN TV: The season premiere was originally part of this arc before being moved up, which meant Adi Gallia’s death would have been part of it too. So at what point did this become the massive death arc?

Dave Filoni: That’s a really good question. It just seemed to evolve by the episode. There was a sensibility by this point, oddly, that we needed to deal with some of these characters that we’d put in motion that don’t show up later in the films. For George [Lucas], that’s where Satine really came into play, because she was kind of a loose end, and I had thrown around to George trying to do other things with Satine and maybe telling different types of stories. But he felt very strongly that the character development between she and Obi-Wan, when they resolved that they love each other but they are not going to commit to anything beyond that, shows you that Obi-Wan is different than Anakin and that he has conquered that realm of his selflessness and personal needs. They’ve kind of let each other go, and what I really like as a nice moment is even down to the last minute with Satine, you see that it doesn’t affect the way she feels about him. And he doesn’t let what happened to her consume him and turn into rage and anger like Anakin would. She still says that she loves him. Let’s face it, everything that happens to her in this arc happens to her because of her connection to Obi-Wan and because that gets exploited, and she becomes a tool for Darth Maul. But she doesn’t hold that against him, and he doesn’t react to it.

At the end of the day, you need a powerful kind of parallel and opposite to what Anakin goes through with Padme. Maul and Anakin would have gotten into a major conflict over that, which is exactly what Maul would have wanted. It’s kind of Obi-Wan’s passiveness and inward dealing of emotions that separates him from Anakin. I thought it was important that when you see Obi-Wan at his biggest breaking point as far as emotional reaction, it’s actually around his investment of Anakin. That’s where you see it in Revenge of the Sith, so you still have that high moment for Obi-Wan and his emotions.

IGN: Maul has now killed Qui-Gon and Satine, two people extremely close to Obi-Wan. But, as you said, Obi-Wan is a committed Jedi. He’s not going to fly off the handle…

Filoni: That’s more what it’s about. Yeah, you’re nailing it. That’ll be a hard thing for the audience to accept, because they will want to react, and they’ll want Obi-Wan to react with them. I know James Arnold Taylor wanted to react more, and I was like, “No, this is not where that’s going to happen.” I kept telling James, “We’re going to sell his emotion in the animation. You’re going to feel it when you see his expression, but I don’t want him to say anything. This is not his moment for that.”

IGN: I’d imagine you will still be able to touch upon Satine’s loss going forward – particularly because it impacts Bo-Katan too.

Filoni: I think one of the things I really liked about these series of episodes was we were able to take Bo and make her a significantly more interesting character. You start to wonder as this progresses, “Wow, I see that she wouldn’t join Maul… She’s helping Satine, and before I didn’t see that coming.” To have the idea behind it being that that’s her sister really kind of drives home this personal connection, which when you look back at all the choices she’s made, I think her character and the course of events make more sense. To give you a kind of interesting tidbit to all that, Bo-Katan being Satine’s sister was never in the original script. It was something I had planned in my mind, but I knew that selling it to script phase or something of this [sort of] personal relationship can be a challenge sometimes with George, because I know he didn’t necessarily see it that way. I wanted him to experience it visually, with the full-on emotion of the characters’ connection. So I shot everything and then I added all this dialogue later, almost in the way that you see Mark Hamill saying, “No, that’s not true, that’s impossible” and Vader saying, “No, I am your father,” you know, almost taking a page from that book to keep this secret. Even on the book that came out, which actually tells you this story -- there was a book published that’s already out -- that tidbit about Bo-Katan won’t appear in that story. I had it removed from there to try and maintain this level of secrecy as much as possible.

At this point, I think she’s a vastly more interesting character, you understand her motivations for things, and I have a rather lengthy backstory that even explains how she became a Death Watch soldier that goes all the way back to the time she and Satine are six. Because to figure out how she got to that point, and yet Satine is a duchess… I have a whole story about who their father was and what their relationships were and everything with Vizsla, going back for a very long time and how that intersects with Obi-Wan Kenobi. I’d give you more detail except I’d like to tell that story at some point in some form of Star Wars media in the future. I’ve discussed it with a couple people, and we’ve started to architect it into the timeline of Star Wars somewhat, just to see where these things fit.

IGN: Would it explain how they have very different accents?

Filoni: [Laughs] Right? And that’s very sibling-like, I find. Having a brother myself -- not like my brother’s a big time pacifist and I’m some war monger -- you know, brothers and sisters all go through different paths and jealousies, and they’re challenged by things. I think it’s something that’s strong in the original Star Wars, where you have a story about a brother and a sister, these twins. When you look at this arc, you have the two Sith calling themselves brothers in Maul and Savage, and that relationship is very important. Then you find out that there were actually sisters in this story arc that are very different. It’s interesting how these things evolve as you’re telling your story in the Star Wars universe.

IGN: Let me ask about Pre Vizsla’s death. Obviously, he’s been a pretty notable recurring villain on the show.

Filoni: That was a sad one, and I love working with Jon [Favreau]. He’s been a great sport about coming in and doing this character repeatedly. We both thought he’d have a very small role in the beginning, but it just evolved, as Star Wars tends to; a bounty hunter that just stands in the background becomes a global sensation. I thought it was about time, though, and it was fair to let Jon go of his Star Wars obligations. I promised him that when he went out that he would go out big time, but he never suspected that Maul would be the guy that took him out. I think he was very pleased that someone the caliber of Darth Maul took him out. We had all kinds of meetings up at animation about the fight and how we were going to stage that. I had always wondered as a kid, what would it be like if a Boba Fett, Mandalorian guy in the prime of his life with technology fought a Force wielder? Here I am, 38 years old, and I have an opportunity to put that up on screen, so that was awesome to do. The layout artists just really took it over and did a great job with it, and I think Jon was really pleased when he saw the outcome -- well, maybe not the outcome, but when he saw the fight itself. It was pretty epic. And we all felt it was time for Pre Vizsla to go. He realizes his dream of becoming the ruler of Mandalore and then loses it hours later, but that’s the life of a villain.

IGN: Meanwhile, things were certainly working out for Darth Maul. You had these great moments of him sitting on the throne, and everything had come together before it all came crashing down. What happens in those final moments of “The Lawless” was a big deal for the show for so many reasons, because Savage Opress is killed, but also because you hadn’t really shown Sidious in the flesh like this. How did it all come together that this would occur all at once?

Filoni: As always with The Clone Wars, I get to go back and talk about George, because these stories all originate with him. As it started to come together, George felt very strongly about Maul’s ambition to organize the crime world to build himself a power base to basically build himself a better mouse trap for Obi-Wan Kenobi, among other things, while creating his own power base to impress Sidious and/or challenge Sidious. It became clear that we all wanted to have Sidious in the story, not just as a hologram, but for the first time physically. It’s one of those things I could never have predicted at the beginning of the show, because I didn’t even know that Maul would be alive for God’s sake. But to have Maul challenged by not Obi-Wan at the end of it, but by Sidious, I thought was a great turn of events that the fans would all really respond to and made a lot of sense. We keep having to deal with this Rule of Two. So no matter how much fun we have of setting up Ventress or Savage or even Maul, at the end of the day, Sidious pulls the trigger and says, “This party’s over, because you only get to have two, and you’re now a rival.” We wanted to take what we had seen in Revenge of the Sith and really blow out the fighting style we saw Sidious have to a much bigger, more elaborate type of acrobatics, and to have him fighting the Maul brothers was a really great visual. It’s really Ian Abercrombie’s best performance as Sidious. And unfortunately right before he passed, he was able to finish his work on that episode arc. It’s kind of a bittersweet thing because he was so excited to finally play the villain in the flesh, because he was always playing him in a distant hologram. I think to finally get to do him right there front and center -- you imagine having Sam Witwer, Clancy Brown and Ian Abercrombie together when they’re doing this -- was really something special. It turned out really great. It’s nice to see the villain of Star Wars really kick the butt of other villains you think are powerful, which helps establish Sidious as “Oh, yeah. This is why he is the Sith Lord.”

GN: He really always does have the upper hand in that fight.

Filoni: And he’s enjoying himself while he does it.

IGN: And there are some other notable beats there at the end, besides, obviously, the death of Savage. There’s the fact that Maul begged for his life. I'm curious, should we take that at face value or was it a ruse?

Filoni: Yeah, I think that’s pretty literal at that point. I think that what you understand about Maul is that he is still not nearly as powerful as Sidious. Perhaps in his time away and his own ambition, like a villain, he got carried away with himself. He’s not offering proper respect to his master, Sidious, and he’s going to pay the price for that. I think the Sith are all wrapped up in their own fear and their own anger. They don’t want to die because they think there’s nothing beyond death. I think it’s one of those moments where he really wonders if he’s going to die now, which is the worst thing that can happen to someone on the Dark Side because they don’t believe there is anything for them beyond it. Whereas the Jedi like to believe they become part of the cosmic Force, the Sith think they just slip off into the oblivion and that’s it, it’s over. So that is a big moment for Maul. Interestingly enough, we don’t just chop his head off. We kill just about everybody else, but not Maul.

IGN: Which raises so many questions because not only does Sidious already have an apprentice with Dooku, but we know he’s got the replacement apprentice being groomed with Anakin. So what could he possibly have in store with Darth Maul?

Filoni: Nothing good! [Laughs] I can imagine nothing good.

IGN: And what was it like saying goodbye to Savage? Of all the characters that died in this arc, this was kind of the biggie in many ways, including media presence, the big entrance he got and his ongoing threat… So what was decision like that this would be the end of such an important character?

Filoni: I think the moment that Maul came back to life it actually put Savage in jeopardy. You’ve got two brute force death dealers, and we’ve gone a long way to show that Maul was more dimensional than that. At the same time, Savage is not around later on -- Maul’s not around [either], but we wanted to deal with him. We felt very strongly as a writing group… It’s one of those things where you sit around the table and everybody just agrees that if Sidious shows up and confronts these two guys, people aren’t leaving the room. That just doesn’t happen. You don’t have the main villain from the series show up and people just run away and escape. Luke pays a penalty when he finally faces Darth Vader and loses his arm. Well, we’ve already cut one of his arms off, poor Savage. So it kind of goes: fight, arm, escape, death -- or you become redeemed, I guess. In a way, what you see at the end is some level of redemption for Savage because he is transported and transformed back into who he was in the original arc, if you look closely. The model of Savage, his face, is actually not steroided out, giant, I-work-out-a-ton Savage Frankenstein. It’s the more average-sized man. The line, “I’m not like you, brother. I never was,” it works on several levels for me, which is first and foremost that he isn’t a trained Sith. He isn’t that super evil. He’s got barely any training from Dooku. He’s kind of more magically imbued by Mother Talzin than anything else, which is evidenced when he dies. So it’s kind of an admission by us, the writing staff, that when we wrote Savage originally it was for lack of having Darth Maul, and now we have Darth Maul. So “I’m not like you, brother. I never was.” He passes on.

I thought, also, it gives us this evidence of Maul not shedding all lack of care either, because you see him affected by the death of his brother. It seems to matter to him, and it seems to register. Sam [Witwer] and I came up with this really good thing -- and this is where Sam is just brilliant to have on your acting team -- Sam wanted to start out by calling Savage “brother,” then transition into calling him “apprentice” this season. And he doesn’t really refer to him as “brother” again until right before he dies. You see Maul trying to shed that humanity by depersonalizing his brother, but he couldn’t even do it. There are elements of all those things at play. I’m sure if you ask Sam about it, he can go on at an essay level about all of that. You can talk to Sam about anything. He elaborates brilliantly about it.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:02 PM   #208
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Sorry for the double post, but the article is long lol. Here's the rest of it, in case someone cant access the link from work (like it happens to me sometimes grrr).

IGN: So any hints about when we might catch up with these Sith guys on the show?

Filoni: You know, I can’t really say. All I can say is we’ve given a lot of thought, the question of what’s motivating all of this. Why did Maul come back? What’s motivating that? Why is Sidious keeping him alive, if he is… What’s motivating that? These are things that we actually looked at and asked ourselves going into the future of the show. This is the hard part for the fans, but they do have answers. It’s just one of those things, right? George says, “Years and years ago, I wrote so many episodes of Star Wars, and I only did the middle part.” Then he comes out and says, “No, there’s never going to be a seven, eight and nine.” Now, J.J. Abrams is actually directing seven, so it certainly looks like there’s a seven, eight and nine. Of course there are stories that explain all of this about Clone Wars. It’s just a matter of time, which is the fan’s great enemy. I remember -- I’m sure you had this experience when you were old enough to realize that the prequels were going to get made -- I hated traveling by plane during that time period. I was like, “Man, I’ve got to make sure I’m around to see these movies! I don’t want to just see Episode I and Episode II! If I don’t get to see Episode III that would suck!” That’s why I think Kyle [Newman]’s movie Fanboys lands with so many fans. “Oh, yeah! That was a legitimate concern!”

IGN: You’ve already mentioned the movies in general -- but what is it like being at Lucasfilm now that new Star Wars movies are being made there?

Filoni: Oh, it’s pretty awesome. I won’t lie. It’s really cool. It’s one of those things where this job was already beyond awesome, right? I work with super talented people, and I got to mentor to George Lucas on how to make Star Wars. Just to be around when all of this is starting to take shape and the thought that, like, “My gosh, I’m going to be sitting in the movie theater and reading ‘A long time ago’ before it goes bang again,” I mean, that’s just so exciting, for myself and the whole company. It’s just really great. It’s bizarre to be on the inside because when you’re seeing things online, I sit there and go, “Haha, that’s not true at all.” I’ve had that experience with Clone Wars. I’m like, “Yeah, that’s completely off base. That’s no truth to that whatsoever.” But at the same time, when I was a fan, I would be soaking all of that up. It’s one of the things I’ve always been able to stay in touch with, fans and what they like and dislike about Clone Wars. Because I always felt, yeah, if I didn’t direct this I would be the same. “Yeah, you know, those episodes were okay, but I really liked those episodes with Plo Koon. Those were really good.” And that’s what it’s about. You never take it personally, because when people strongly dislike something you’ve done, it’s just because they strongly care about the idea of what Star Wars is. My remedy has always been, “Well, what do you think of it?” I’m going to be there for a long time, listening. But it’s cool. Look at the response to anything Episode VII, right? Any hint, any nugget that’s dropped, any word on it is, like, “Boom!” News all over the place.

I just think it’s yet another reminder of how powerful the Star Wars universe really is. It’s a story that connects with people across all these generations again and again. It’s exciting, and people feel a real ownership over it. It’s got such an active fan community. In fact, I think the community of Star Wars these days is more active now than they were when the prequels were coming out. The fanbase really learned how to be a fanbase during the prequels. We all just grew up with the original trilogy. We didn’t know any better. We thought, “These are awesome movies. This is mine, I’m a kid.” Then we all grew up and were like, “I’m taking my kids to see this. I love this. Oh, look, they’re making homemade stormtrooper costumes. This is insane! This is awesome. I want one of those!” Then it became now they have an animated series, and people are still… I see walking representations of animated clones at premieres of my TV show. I see Ahsokas walking around at Walt Disney World. Pretty soon, there is going to be all these new characters that you and I don’t have any idea about from Episode VII, whatever that is. We’re going to be like, “Wow, when I was six, I never even dreamed that that would be possible.” More fun for you and me, right?

IGN: That’s definitely true. I’ve mentioned before how amazing that girl was dressed as Bo-Katan at Star Wars Celebration last summer.

Filoni: Right? Phenomenal. That’s one of the moments when you’re like, “I’m going to design this because girls need some badass armor,” and I wanted a badass character. Then there she is, walking up to me at Celebration. I’m like, “Yeah. She nailed it. That’s awesome.”

IGN: And all there had been at that point were quick clips shown at conventions earlier that summer for her to even base the unmasked look on.

Filoni: That’s absolutely right. Hey, never question the ability of our fans to catch the details. The smallest thing, the smallest problems -- if a padawan braid is on the wrong side of the head in one shot, for one frame, they will catch it. We were just watching a trailer of something we’re going to put out for Clone Wars, and I was like, “Oh, see that there? That would give something away.” They’re like, “But it’s two frames!” I’m like, “No. No, trust me. They’ll see it. The fans will see it. They know. The Star Wars fans are the best, most accurate. They will find it out.” And I love it.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:10 PM   #209
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Maybe Palapatine will send Maul after Padme?

Now that we've been discussing Dooku, if Maul does have to go I wouldn't mind if Dooku is the one to do the deed.
I find this the most plausible...Palp's will probably work Maul and Dooku against each other......maybe somehow work Anakin into it. Palp's is always the manipulator, I think its perfect for him to manipulate Maul and Dooku against each other.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:38 PM   #210
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Brilliant episode, I loved Obi-Wan's plan to rescue Satine on his own using his Rako Hardeen disguise, and both the nods to ANH were nice. The aerial action with the Mando's had some glorious shots, the type of stuff I've always wanted to see.

Satine's death was hard to watch. It's amazing the emotion the animator's generated, and after killing her I don't think Maul lives, I guessed Bo-Katan was Satine's sister and in the end I think she kills Maul when he's prone.

Speaking of Bo-Katan, I loved the sequence when she rescued Obi-Wan on the landing deck, great action.

Maul and Oppress vs Darth Sidious was glorious, just so dynamic and powerful, that's two incredible Llightsaber duels in two eps!

It's going to be interesting to see what Palpatine's plans for Maul are.
It was such a great episode, I had to watch it 4 times.


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Old 02-05-2013, 03:57 PM   #211
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^ that shot was probably my favorite. Awesome

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Old 02-05-2013, 09:41 PM   #212
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This was by far the best story arc the series has pulled out.

Personally I think Palpatine is going to have Maul and Dooku face-off to see who is going to remain his apprentice. However given the way the story has gone so far it's pretty obvious Obi-Wan is going to be the one to take him out before the end of the series.

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Old 02-05-2013, 09:51 PM   #213
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A shame, I've been wanting to see Anakin take him on

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Old 02-05-2013, 10:10 PM   #214
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A shame, I've been wanting to see Anakin take him on
Maybe he will, it would be pretty awesome. Obi Wan and Anakin VS Maul would certainly mess with Obi Wan's head.

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Old 02-05-2013, 11:33 PM   #215
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It was such a great episode, I had to watch it 4 times.

Can someone make this in a smaller avatar size? About the one I've got currently? Would love to use it.

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Old 02-06-2013, 01:05 AM   #216
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Finally got around to watching this. Definitely top 10 episodes of this series. Poor Satine.

I loved Sid's fighting style, it looks like they took his moves from RotS, snorted some good coke and came up with this crazy s**t they showed us in the episode. And I really appreciate how they took the time and effort to use McDiarmid's facial expressions from his RotS duels and used them for Sid here. Made his look so animalistic and pretty much unholy.

Wow.

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Old 02-06-2013, 01:19 AM   #217
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Sorry for the double post, but the article is long lol. Here's the rest of it, in case someone cant access the link from work (like it happens to me sometimes grrr).
Aprpeciate it, man. That was an excellent read.

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Old 02-06-2013, 01:24 AM   #218
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Thanks for posting that interview Bim, Filoni is so enthusiastic, I wonder if he may get one of the spin-off movies.

I like his reasoning for the death of Satine and how it filters into the story between Obi-Wan and Anakin. I'd also love to see this Bo-Katan backstory.

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It was such a great episode, I had to watch it 4 times.

Heh! I just thought, what happened to the mando with the spikes on his helmet? from the promos we all expected it to be Maul but it was seemingly just some soldier.

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Can someone make this in a smaller avatar size? About the one I've got currently? Would love to use it.

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Old 02-06-2013, 02:37 AM   #219
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My only disappointment with "The Lawless" was that Maul didn't let loose an evil laugh when he killed Satine and broke Obi-Wan.

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Old 02-06-2013, 08:19 AM   #220
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Thanks for posting that interview Bim, Filoni is so enthusiastic, I wonder if he may get one of the spin-off movies.

I like his reasoning for the death of Satine and how it filters into the story between Obi-Wan and Anakin. I'd also love to see this Bo-Katan backstory.



Heh! I just thought, what happened to the mando with the spikes on his helmet? from the promos we all expected it to be Maul but it was seemingly just some soldier.



Thanks! Altthough sadly I'm still at the 75 x 75 limit. When can I use abigger avy again?

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Old 02-06-2013, 03:44 PM   #221
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Default Re: The Season 5 Discussion Thread

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Thanks for posting that interview Bim, Filoni is so enthusiastic, I wonder if he may get one of the spin-off movies.

I like his reasoning for the death of Satine and how it filters into the story between Obi-Wan and Anakin. I'd also love to see this Bo-Katan backstory.



Heh! I just thought, what happened to the mando with the spikes on his helmet? from the promos we all expected it to be Maul but it was seemingly just some soldier.



Yeah the ones with the spikes are being dubbed mauldolrians. Sort of like his imperial guards.

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Old 02-06-2013, 03:44 PM   #222
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Thanks! Altthough sadly I'm still at the 75 x 75 limit. When can I use abigger avy again?
2,000 so 49 more posts for you.

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Old 02-06-2013, 11:31 PM   #223
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Default Re: The Season 5 Discussion Thread

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Thanks! Altthough sadly I'm still at the 75 x 75 limit. When can I use abigger avy again?
You are almost there and have been a member 6 years so I've put it in for you.

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Yeah the ones with the spikes are being dubbed mauldolrians. Sort of like his imperial guards.
I coined that!

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Old 02-06-2013, 11:35 PM   #224
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You are almost there and have been a member 6 years so I've put it in for you.
I love you.

Seriously, thanks Hunter.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:17 AM   #225
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I love you.

Seriously, thanks Hunter.
You're welcome.

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