That Wasn't The Wrestling Thread, That Was CGI!

[MMMMM...Dounuts]

Originally Posted by NDX

I have a reason to watch Smackdown this week!

I thought the same thing when I read the spoilers.


***Spoiler Alert***



Never thought I'd be this interested in seeing Mark Henry return and making me want to tune in to Smackdown. ****ed up man, but Henry's been awesome since he became a monster again, plays it perfectly.



***End Spoilers***

[ImWithTeamConan]

When it comes to Mark Henry, it just shows what you can do with a new direction, good writing, and great booking. I LOVE the Hall of Pain gimmick. And once that started to gain momentum you could see him embody the character more in the ring, I remember his match with Sheamus at Summerslam a couple years back that I was expecting to be a bore but it was actually pretty good.

[vantheman77]

Nice to see both Bruno Sammartino and Bob Backlund inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame.

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by Metallo

Victoria was never a top babyface type. Thats why that first face run never really took off. In WWE she worked better as a heel anyway. My beef was that they made her look so weak when she should have been booked stronger face or heel. I would have made Mickie the face of the division and Victoria a top heel. As time has shown they work very well together.

Mickie could have been the It girl though. She's more easily marketable She had the looks, the charisma, mic skills, ring skills, etc. and she was super over. But like you said she wasn't HIS type. Vince wants the more lean, model-esque, blond bomshell, all american type of girl. We've seen him try slight variations on that again and again.

Victoria was definitely better as a heel, Mickie is amazing as she was great as both, but crazy Vic was great and her match with Trish at Survivor Series 2002 should have been the blueprint for how she was booked from then on, even now in TNA with a very different type of heel character she is doing good work.

Vince's attitude post-MNW's has been back to his old my way or th high way mode of booking, the kind that would have meant Austin would never have been pushed. His refusal to turn Cena heel and his refusal to put the machine behind Mickie are testaments to that.

AJ is another type thats easily marketable to a lot of fans but Vince refuses to actually try.

I'm not sure what his view is on AJ, if anything he took her good work in the summer and actually over-pushed her IMO. It's going to be interesting post-Mania to see if she becomes the valet of the WHC and parlays that into heading up a renewed focus on the women's division, we can but hope.

I get the sense that she might be one of those types of girls that thrives on a lot of mens attention. It would explain one reason why she didn't get along with some of the other women. I've met girls like that who usually have daddy issues and thats one cause. Knox is an odd choice though.

When you crave sexual attention from Mike Knox it's tme to seek help!

I doubt it. The thing is I'm not sure why WWE didn't think Jericho didn't have such a strong chance of winning. You'd think they would have had two scripts variations ready.

Ortons one of their home grown boys but his star has faded a bit since Punk became the number 2 man in the company and its more rare to see Jericho these days. It think even Stevie Wonder could see that Punk and Jericho would deliver a more dynamic and even match than Punk and Orton. Jericho is the kind of guy that works better with someone like Punk so there was always a good chance Y2J would win the voting.

I think this goes back to how out of touch Vince is, he probably couldn't imagine that the fans would vote in such strong numbers for Jobbercho as they would for his chiseled, monosyllabic creation. If Punk wasn't booked to beat Orton clean it would just add to the claims many here make of the stupidity in that company, I mean Orton has 2 wellness failures unlike Punk, and he isn't the one in the WWE title match on PPV in 2 weeks.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by O'Haire

That was glorious!

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

I was quite happy to see Maddox booked as standing his ground against the Shield last night, rather than weaseling out and trying to run away.

I'm wondering what they are going to do with young Eric.

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by venom892

Sheamus,Ryback and Cena really are the epitome of whatt Vince wants from his superstars.I'm really curious to see who gets paired with Del Rio at Mania.I don't think it'll be Bryan or Kane as I feel they'll either defend the titles at mania or have a blow off match.Mysterio probably isn't an option either as that match has been done to death and they are trying to get Del Rio cheered.Orton might be Vince's choose, but that might be counter-productive.Henry could be interesting and I doubt Swagger will be thrust into a high profile match at mania. I'm really interested in seeing how this will play out.

Del Rio shouldn't make it to Mania as champ after that promo last night.
Looking at the SD spoilers I think he'll face

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Mark Henry

and even though he's doing ok as a face, I hope he loses.

[Hunter Rider]

[NotFadeAway]

Depending on how many matches/dates Lesnar has on his new deal, I would like to see Lesnar/Miz at Elimination Chamber. Monday was the best moment Miz has had in his babyface run so far. Even though he was destroyed, Miz looked like he had a spine and courage by not backing down from Lesnar. It's crazy to think that getting beat down could make a face look better, but thats what happened. Why this match would be a good thing is.....

1) It's last second, but Brock and Rock being on the card pre-Mania can keep the hype machine rolling and result in a nice buyrate.

2) Lesnar can get any possible rust off before Mania.

3) Lesnar can get another win to continue erasing the loss to Cena before possibly losing to Triple H at Mania.

4) Lesnar can look unstoppable by beating down Miz like he did Cena, while Miz would look tough as nails by not back down. And if Miz worked the same style match as Lesnar/Cena at Extreme Rules, he will earn some respect.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Lesnar/Del Rio or Lesnar/Sheamus at Mania instead of Triple H. I think Del Rio could work well with Lesnar given his intense in ring style, his amateur background, and his standing up to bullies thing.

Not that any of this will happen......also, we have never seen Lesnar vs. Jericho.

[bullets]

Great spoilers for Smackdown. Somebody gonna get their ass kicked !

Originally Posted by apartbyhorses

CM Punk heeling it up!

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Originally Posted by NotFadeAway

Depending on how many matches/dates Lesnar has on his new deal, I would like to see Lesnar/Miz at Elimination Chamber..

I'd prefer it to be Brock vs Triple H. Then Brock could face someone else at Wrestlemania. Brock vs Miz would just be a glorified squash match.

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

Chris Jericho Defends Triple H Following Bret Hart Comments, Speaks on His Surprise Royal Rumble Return

I've always read Triple H was a great ring general and knows how to read the crowd. Bret might of had interesting points , but he just couldn't help being spiteful. It's kind of shame because I hoped the past would be completely behind him by now.

[TheFuture]

Originally Posted by Dr. Evil

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

* Big Show is shown arriving on his bus. He comes to the ring and cuts a promo, announcing that Alberto Del Rio is suspended. Show blames Booker T for what happened and out he comes. Show vs. Kane is announced.

* Cody Rhodes beat Kofi Kingston.

* The Great Khali defeated Titus O'Neil.

* Mark Henry comes out and destroys Khali to a big pop. Henry announces the Hall of Pain is back open. Henry wants a spot in the Chamber match. Booker comes out and announces Henry vs. Randy Orton.

* Big Show quickly beat Kane.

* Alberto Del Rio is outside in the parking lot and he's taken the wheels off Show's tour bus. Show comes to the parking lot but gets a bunch of paint dropped on top of him from the roof. Del Rio laughs and drives off.

* Jack Swagger squashed Justin Gabriel.

* Tensai beat Drew McIntyre by DQ when 3MB attacked him. Brodus Clay made the save.

* Antonio Cesaro beat Sin Cara.

* Mark Henry defeated Randy Orton to earn a spot in the Elimination Chamber.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

The Real Deal jobbed to Khali? WTF is this crap!? Where the hell was No Days Off!?

[Pink Ranger]

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

When you crave sexual attention from Mike Knox it's tme to seek help!

Quotation of the year!

[Metallo]

Originally Posted by O'Haire

You are wonderful for giving us this. BREAK HIM, BROCK! BREAK HIM!

I'd love to see another beat down.

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

Yeah...It didn't feel as evident though as it did last night, especially the front row. The only other obvious one I could think of in recent times was the Brock Lesnar wannabe bursting a blood vessel during his entrance.

The ones in the front rows are sometimes easy to spot...especially when they aren't physically involved and just trying to get something over as super good or super evil with far too overly enthusiastic cheering or half assed cheering. TNA always has a habbit of hiring good looking women for some spots which is a dead giveaway.

The folks who get cast to get physically involved in some way are so poorly handled sometimes. As far as Lesnar Superfan he alone makes Brocks returns hilariously entertaining. Somebody needs to post that Dragonball GIF again.

Originally Posted by Team Andino

Brock represents the IWC and how unhappy we are with Miz's inability to properly apply a figure four.

Amen. He looked like he just got totally lost when he was putting it on.

Originally Posted by venom892

Sheamus,Ryback and Cena really are the epitome of whatt Vince wants from his superstars.I'm really curious to see who gets paired with Del Rio at Mania.I don't think it'll be Bryan or Kane as I feel they'll either defend the titles at mania or have a blow off match.Mysterio probably isn't an option either as that match has been done to death and they are trying to get Del Rio cheered.Orton might be Vince's choose, but that might be counter-productive.Henry could be interesting and I doubt Swagger will be thrust into a high profile match at mania. I'm really interested in seeing how this will play out.

I could see Del Rio vs Orton but I'd only want that if Randy turned heel at some point before or during the match. The problem with him is he's lost some ground and they'd have to work to build him up.

I'd hate to see Sheamus and/or Ryback against the Shield again at Mania but that could happen. Sheamus may be in the WHC match so they have to find something for Roidboy. They are going to try to give Ryback something worthwhile to do to put him over strong at Wrestlemania and taking on the Shield in maybe a handicap match is one of the few things I can think of. They are the only strong group of young stars really worth it since they've been booked best. Theres also history there so they don't have to start from scratch at any point. They could also put Ryback against Jericho. Thats been rumored.

I could also see Orton doing something with or against the Shield at Wrestlemania. You're right on though: its not nearly as clear for the midcard matches as it is for the big/main event matches.

I'm surprised we've heard nothing of a potential Kane vs Rey mask themed match. They've had a stiff one over that concept for years but Rey keeps on getting injured during Wrestlemania season. They planned it with Sin Cara and Rey too but like Rey Sin Cara keeps on getting injured.

Originally Posted by MMMMM...Dounuts

I thought the same thing when I read the spoilers.


***Spoiler Alert***

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Never thought I'd be this interested in seeing Mark Henry return and making me want to tune in to Smackdown. ****ed up man, but Henry's been awesome since he became a monster again, plays it perfectly.

***End Spoilers***

Yeah its sad that Mark Henry is doing the best work of his entire career right when he's nearing the end of it. He's been steadily getting better and better for years but the point before his last injury was the best he's ever been . Great monster. Batista was similar in that he'd been around for years but he did his best overall work right when he was going out the door.

Originally Posted by ImWithTeamConan

When it comes to Mark Henry, it just shows what you can do with a new direction, good writing, and great booking. I LOVE the Hall of Pain gimmick. And once that started to gain momentum you could see him embody the character more in the ring, I remember his match with Sheamus at Summerslam a couple years back that I was expecting to be a bore but it was actually pretty good.

Yup. Thats why good booking matters despite people saying "who cares" about booking? Or that its all the talents fault. Mark Henry didn't just suddenly get better. He's slowly gotten better for years but WWE finally figured out how to give him a quality long term run and use him in a way that fits his him.

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

Victoria was definitely better as a heel, Mickie is amazing as she was great as both, but crazy Vic was great and her match with Trish at Survivor Series 2002 should have been the blueprint for how she was booked from then on, even now in TNA with a very different type of heel character she is doing good work.

Vince's attitude post-MNW's has been back to his old my way or the highway mode of booking, the kind that would have meant Austin would never have been pushed. His refusal to turn Cena heel and his refusal to put the machine behind Mickie are testaments to that.

Can't argue with any of that. I've always compared the situation with Trish and Mickie to the one with Hogan after he left the company. Vince clearly wanted another Hogan but the fans wanted something new. There's only one Trish just like there is only one Hogan. You can't just copy that so easily. People can see through what he's doing. The world has moved on and become more diverse minded in the last 30 years while Vince still thinks in the same simple terms. Cesaro is another example of that. Its not 1983, Vince!

As great as the Hogan/Trish types are there's room for more. But now Cena is the new Hogan. Ryback is the new Goldberg/Warrior type. Vince is playing it safe with stuff he came up with over 20 years ago because he's old fashioned. The whole world isn't old fashioned though.

Anybody with sense could see that each of his new top stars hit the highest highs when they were more original and less rehashes. Sure guys take bits and pieces but they take those pieces and meld them into something new by adding a unique twist of their own.

I'm not sure what his view is on AJ, if anything he took her good work in the summer and actually over-pushed her IMO. It's going to be interesting post-Mania to see if she becomes the valet of the WHC and parlays that into heading up a renewed focus on the women's division, we can but hope.

He tried to use her talents to get more attention on the Punk/Kane/Bryan storyline instead of using her talents for her own benefit. He's done that a lot recently. It happened with Ryder and Bryan too. Then he used AJ with Cena. He siphoned off their popularity to infuse it into something else. That wasn't right. I enjoyed AJ's work with Kane Punk and Bryan but she also should have benefitted more from it instead of just being a tool.

AJ's momentum should have been carried over into the divas division or at least some kind of solo, valet, or manager run. Instead Vince put her in a position where she was doomed to fail, that didn't fit her, and wasn't designed to utilize ALL her skills. That was the GM role. She lost a ton of momentum in that role. Any imbecile could see that it would be a mistake. The GM role is little more than a plot device not a strong star role. Its a role more suited for a superstar who is more estableshed...not a new talent who has no authority or long running respect. It takes talent to make it work but its not something you can go to the top with unless your name is McMahon.

I think this goes back to how out of touch Vince is, he probably couldn't imagine that the fans would vote in such strong numbers for Jobbercho as they would for his chiseled, monosyllabic creation. If Punk wasn't booked to beat Orton clean it would just add to the claims many here make of the stupidity in that company, I mean Orton has 2 wellness failures unlike Punk, and he isn't the one in the WWE title match on PPV in 2 weeks.

They would have done something to protect Orton in a loss. I have no doubts about that. He's full time and one of Vince's creations. He also has almost a decade left in him as a top guy if he stays healthy. Randy still gets huge leeway despite, as you said, being this close to being fired with one more Wellness strike. Anyone else wouldn't even be where he is right now on the card.

His Wellness standing is probably one of the reasons he hasn't been a champ in a while but he still gets some higher profile matches and more attention from creative than most. They've done a ton to protect him over the years like when his name showed up on the signature pharmacy steroid bust list while he was in a main event program with Cena. I don't buy their story that he'd "already served his time." he could very well be on FOUR strikes right now.

But Jericho vs Punk was last years WWE title match for God's sake. Vince is not only out of touch but he refuses to listen to reality even when its right in front of his face.

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

Del Rio shouldn't make it to Mania as champ after that promo last night.
Looking at the SD spoilers I think he'll face

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Mark Henry

and even though he's doing ok as a face, I hope he loses.

I like that idea. I'm very curious to see what a face Del Rio could do with a heel Henry right now. He's done some good work with Big Show.

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

Goergeous. I joke but anytime a so called macho man like Vince has the nerve to call Mickie James a fat pig and think the fans will buy it as good tv I really do think he prefers to personally oil up a big muscular goof like Ryback.

Originally Posted by bullets

Great spoilers for Smackdown. Somebody gonna get their ass kicked !

Wigs gon get SPLIT!

I'd prefer it to be Brock vs Triple H. Then Brock could face someone else at Wrestlemania. Brock vs Miz would just be a glorified squash match.

My whole problem with Miz vs Brock is its totaly unbelievable. Especially Miz being super tough and brave all of a sudden when even Cena was nervous when Brock came back. I just had to laugh when Miz bucked up to Lesnar and got in his face. There was just no way he could have felt he stood a chance. I just don't buy it. With Miz against anyone else I would have but not Brock.

Like you say with an actual match how could it not be a squash? Miz would have to roll down the ramp with a truck to give us anything that could believably last longer than 2 minutes.

I've always read Triple H was a great ring general and knows how to read the crowd. Bret might of had interesting points , but he just couldn't help being spiteful. It's kind of shame because I hoped the past would be completely behind him by now.

Sometimes Triple H was only as good as his opponent but for Bret to say he never had a great match is silly. I respect Bret but I wonder how much of this is talking out of his a** bias...and just how many Triple H matches has he actually even seen? I doubt he's even watched most of them. How can he make that call on HHH's whole career? Bret only gave examples from Triple H's early WWE years and his most recent matches while Jericho gave more examples from HHH's prime years that Bret didn't even touch on. I dislike HHH's way of doing business over the years and how lazy/slowed down he got in later years but at his peak he was great.

Lik I said its been said HHH is no HBK who can go out there and work anyone. He's had some huge stinkers. I do think he's overrated as a worker when looking at the WHOLE of his career but that doesn't mean he's not a great wrestler. Brets just not being fair here.

Its funny to me since in some ways Bret is better than HHH while in others HHH is better than Bret but I've always considered them to be on about the same broad level of greatness when looking at the pro wrestling landscape. In terms of star power they have to be comparable.

Bret has to be considered as far more "THE GUY" in his era than HHH ever was during his entire career. Brets period on top was a low point for WWE but he also had the excuses of a steroid scandal, more shallow roster, and fierce financial and creative compettion from WCW. No other top guys have had to deal with those kinds of hurdles the way Hart and Michaels did and they did at least keep the ship afloat.

Triple H had the advantage of hitting his stride and rising into the main event during one of the most popular and watched eras of wrestling. When HHH finally did get more of a share of the burden of drawing at the top WWE's business began to decline. All this despite having more depth in his roster when it came to supporting players and no major competition on the national pro wrestling landscape.

Bret was a better mat wrestler who didn't need to rely on gimmick matches as much. He wasn't the mic worker than Triple H was but he was a bit underrated especially towards the end of his career. Bret was better at going out there with a lesser opponent and having a good match. He was also IMO better at working big men than HHH. He always gave you everything and never looked like he was phoning it in...even with a jobber.

Sometimes Bret could focus too much on the mechanical aspects of ring work. He's great at that but there can be more to it than that. Take all the physical ability away and you take a lot out of Brets arsenel as an entertainer.

Triple H has often needed to rely on gimmick matches and superior opponents and while he's great on the mic I also feel he's a bit OVERRATED sometimes. There have been periods where he droned on for 20 minutes with the same kind of predictable heel promos week after week and overdid it.

Triple H was far more of an entertainer. More of a showman. His entrances alone prove that. He had a tremendous hook with his character to the point that he could do a lot of that and not even have to wrestle to entertain. But sometimes when it came to wrestling you could tell when he was in there with some guys that he did not give a damn about making them look good. He's done some no selling that would make Cena wince and he's been known to take it easier in lower key matches.

Its fascinating to compare and contrast the two. The real shame is we didn't get to see them go at it at their peaks. If Bret had stayed with WWF as a special attraction of some kind or left on better terms in 97 and then come back in 99 just imagine The Hitman vs The Game? We could have seen some brilliant matches.

They're both great wrestlers IMO.

[Calavera]

some random thoughts:

im getting annoyed at people pissed that cm punk lost the belt. someone wanted him to keep the title AND beat the undertaker at mania. sheesh

the miz still sucks as a face. his act feels forced. same with alberto except alberto can wrestle and talk better

HHH actually sucks on the mic. and his 2002-2003 title reign was some of the worst tv out there

bret needs to cool it with the heat. that was 15 years ago.

the hof NEEDS bruno in there to legitmize it. they also need randy savage because he made a major contribution to wrestling

[bullets]

Originally Posted by Metallo

But Jericho vs Punk was last years WWE title match for God's sake. Vince is not only out of touch but he refuses to listen to reality even when its right in front of his face.

I think anyone could of called it besides Vince McMahon. Honestly I thought RAW active was fixed and WWE knew Jericho vs Punk would be more current and exciting.

Also I agree with what you said about Orton. They might of had to change the RAW ending with the Shield jumping Orton while Punk ran to the back and the faces came out to save him.

Originally Posted by Metallo

My whole problem with Miz vs Brock is its totaly unbelievable. Especially Miz being super tough and brave all of a sudden when even Cena was nervous when Brock came back. I just had to laugh when Miz bucked up to Lesnar and got in his face. There was just no way he could have felt he stood a chance. I just don't buy it. With Miz against anyone else I would have but not Brock.

Like you say with an actual match how could it not be a squash? Miz would have to roll down the ramp with a truck to give us anything that could believably last longer than 2 minutes.

It reminds me of when I see a little dog barking at a much larger one. They still stand their ground , but we all know the outcome. At least Rey Mysterio can run around people in circles and try to kick out the knees. Miz doesn't have any of that capability. Also Brock is now considered one of the most dangerous men in the world. If the match is going to be any good it has to be against someone big or that has great technical prowess.

I think the Miz is a decent wrestler , but nothing above the level of a mid-carder. He's come a long way from reality tv star , but anyone outside wrestling would never be able to look past that.

Originally Posted by Metallo

Sometimes Triple H was only as good as his opponent but for Bret to say he never had a great match is silly. I respect Bret but I wonder how much of this is talking out of his a** bias...and just how many Triple H matches has he actually even seen? I doubt he's even watched most of them. How can he make that call on HHH's whole career? Bret only gave examples from Triple H's early WWE years and his most recent matches while Jericho gave more examples from HHH's prime years that Bret didn't even touch on. I dislike HHH's way of doing business over the years and how lazy/slowed down he got in later years but at his peak he was great.

Lik I said its been said HHH is no HBK who can go out there and work anyone. He's had some huge stinkers. I do think he's overrated as a worker when looking at the WHOLE of his career but that doesn't mean he's not a great wrestler. Brets just not being fair here.

Its funny to me since in some ways Bret is better than HHH while in others HHH is better than Bret but I've always considered them to be on about the same broad level of greatness when looking at the pro wrestling landscape. In terms of star power they have to be comparable.

Bret has to be considered far more of THE GUY in his era than HHH ever was during his entire career. Brets period on top was a low point for WWE but he also had the excuse of a more shallow roster and fierce financial and creative compettion from WCW. No other top guys have had to deal with those kinds of hurdles the way Hart and Michaels did and they did at least keep the ship afloat.

Triple H just had the advantage of hitting his stride and going into the main event during one of the most popular and watched eras of wrestling. When HHH finally did get more of a share of the burden of drawing at the top WWE's business began to decline. All this despite having more depth in his roster when it came to supporting players and zero competition on the national pro wrestling landscape.

Bret was a better mat wrestler who didn't need to rely on gimmick matches as much. He wasn't the mic worker than Triple H was but he was a bit underrated especially towards the end of his career. Bret was better at going out there with a lesser opponent and having a good match. He was also IMO better at working big men than HHH. He always gave you everything and never looked like he was phoning it in...even with a jobber.

Sometimes Bret could focus too much on the mechanical aspects of ring work. He's great at that but there can be more to it than that. Take all the physical ability away and you take a lot out of Brets arsenal as an entertainer.

Triple H has often needed to rely on gimmick matches and superior opponents and while he's great on the mic I also feel he's a bit OVERRATED sometimes. There have been periods where he droned on for 20 minutes with the same kind of predictable heel promos week after week and overdid it.

Triple H was far more of an entertainer. More of a showman. His entrances alone prove that. He had a tremendous hook with his character to the point that he could do a lot of that and not even have to wrestle to entertain. But sometimes when it came to wrestling you could tell when he was in there with some guys that he did not give a damn about making them look good. He's done some no selling that would make Cena wince and he's been known to take it easier in lower key matches.

Its fascinating to compare and contrast the two. The real shame is we didn't get to see them go at it at their peaks. If Bret had stayed with WWF as a special attraction of some kind or left on better terms in 97 and then come back in 99 just imagine The Hitman vs The Game? We could have seen some brilliant matches.

They're both great wrestlers IMO.

I think it could all come down to Bret being the excellence of execution and Triple H being a great performer. I really wish Bret would of been back to face Triple H , Kurt Angle , Jericho , etc. I know he might of made amends with Triple H or at least had more respect for him. Steve Austin says one of his favorite matches is the NO WAY OUT - Three stages of Hell match. I know Bret and Austin have had regular conversations so I wonder if that ever came up. If Bret were to say Triple H wasn't on the level on HBK it would of made sense , but for now he's opened a can of worms.

Also I thought Triple H's promo's were very long winded. He was a great heel , but you could point to his ego getting in the way of a lot of things.
I suppose there is a lot that could pointed out about Triple H and he did have the benefit of being in a boom period. However I'll always respect him for paying his dues and giving us a lot of memorable matches. I just wish at this point in time he'd put his ego behind him and do what's best for the company. Some of it might be Vince's fault , but Trips owes a job to Punk and doesn't need one back from Brock Lesnar.

[Pink Ranger]

Originally Posted by Metallo

My whole problem with Miz vs Brock is its totaly unbelievable. Especially Miz being super tough and brave all of a sudden when even Cena was nervous when Brock came back. I just had to laugh when Miz bucked up to Lesnar and got in his face. There was just no way he could have felt he stood a chance. I just don't buy it. With Miz against anyone else I would have but not Brock.

Like you say with an actual match how could it not be a squash? Miz would have to roll down the ramp with a truck to give us anything that could believably last longer than 2 minutes.

I disagree: I find it quite believable. Face Miz (similar to Heel Miz) strikes me as the kind of character who would run his mouth and have delusions that he could effectively fight someone like Brock Lesnar. That he got his ass handed to him made the segment more effective.

[Metallo]

Originally Posted by Calavera

im getting annoyed at people pissed that cm punk lost the belt. someone wanted him to keep the title AND beat the undertaker at mania. sheesh

Who said that? I think most people just want to see Punk get some strong win right now. He doesn't need to be "given it all" but one or the other to help push him. So far he's done the job to every top late 90's star who he's faced off against. He jobbed to Triple H and Rock. Nash even cost him the title run before his most recent one. Since he's done that I think it would help him to break the streak but I don't think he needs ALL wins over all those guys. At the same time If he had beat Rock and/or HHH I'd be more fine with him losing to Undertaker. He could take that loss much easier after getting such big wins over other top stars.

the miz still sucks as a face. his act feels forced. same with alberto except alberto can wrestle and talk better

They are both natural arrogant heels. I'll give both their face runs a shot but the heel roles seem liek better fits to me.

HHH actually sucks on the mic. and his 2002-2003 title reign was some of the worst tv out there

I wouldn't say he sucks myself but he can get repetitive. During the early 2000's he would sometimes rehash the same tiring promos for the whole first chunk of a tv show. It was usually the same thing with different names swapped in for some weeks. By 2003 he'd gotten even worse at that AND he couldn't go in the ring as well as he used to.

When he wants to and actually tries he's damn good on the mic. Another problem is sometimes he puts himself over too much in his promos while going out of his way to totally and unnecessarily bury other wrestlers. That realy disgusts me.

Originally Posted by bullets

I think anyone could of called it besides Vince McMahon. Honestly I thought RAW active was fixed and WWE knew Jericho vs Punk would be more current and exciting.

I've often wondered about that myself during some Raws. Especially since they once admitted the voting got messed up and we saw the wrong result.

Also I agree with what you said about Orton. They might of had to change the RAW ending with the Shield jumping Orton while Punk ran to the back and the faces came out to save him.

I just hope they line up whatever they do soon. I did consider that the Shield beatdown on Maddox or Orton coming out to confront them could each be a ruse. Maddox took a pretty good beating though.

It reminds me of when I see a little dog barking at a much larger one. They still stand their ground , but we all know the outcome. At least Rey Mysterio can run around people in circles and try to kick out the knees. Miz doesn't have any of that capability. Also Brock is now considered one of the most dangerous men in the world. If the match is going to be any good it has to be against someone big or that has great technical prowess.

Yeah thats a good way to describe it. But even then those little dogs will back off if a bigger dog challenges them. Sometimes the little dogs can intimidate the big ones though. Problem is Miz's "bark" doesn't even sound mean.

I think the Miz is a decent wrestler , but nothing above the level of a mid-carder. He's come a long way from reality tv star , but anyone outside wrestling would never be able to look past that.

At least Rey does have something special in his in ring arsenel despite his size. I agree with you. Miz is wholly average as a wrestler.

I think it could all come down to Bret being the excellence of execution and Triple H being a great performer. I really wish Bret would of been back to face Triple H , Kurt Angle , Jericho , etc. I know he might of made amends with Triple H or at least had more respect for him. Steve Austin says one of his favorite matches is the NO WAY OUT - Three stages of Hell match. I know Bret and Austin have had regular conversations so I wonder if that ever came up. If Bret were to say Triple H wasn't on the level on HBK it would of made sense , but for now he's opened a can of worms.

Also I thought Triple H's promo's were very long winded. He was a great heel , but you could point to his ego getting in the way of a lot of things.
I suppose there is a lot that could pointed out about Triple H and he did have the benefit of being in a boom period. However I'll always respect him for paying his dues and giving us a lot of memorable matches. I just wish at this point in time he'd put his ego behind him and do what's best for the company. Some of it might be Vince's fault , but Trips owes a job to Punk and doesn't need one back from Brock Lesnar.

Another one I wish we could have seen is Bret Hart vs Chris Jericho. It could have happened in WCW but WCW had not one clue most of the time.

Austin would be the guy to ask since he wrestled both Bret and Triple H at their best in classic matches and he would be fair about it. He's always said the match with Bret at WM13 was one of his best and so has Bret. Flair has also wrestled them both but we know he'd choose Triple H over Bret. He's said worse things about Bret than Bret has about Triple H.

They've both had a lot of the same opponents and had great matches with the same opponents. I'd say a big difference between Bret and Triple H in the ring is consistency. Sometimes H might pull off the better match but he's never been consistent over certain periods. During that 2002 - 2003 period I wouldn't eactly say he tore the house down on a regular basis. Brets usually had a consistent level of high quality work across more of his career despite also having lesser periods.

There's no doubt both paid their dues but I'd say Bret paid them more. He worked longer before he made it to WWF and longer still before he got to the main event in WWF. Then there is always Triple H's association with the Kliq to consider when we look at how he rose to the top. He busted his a** too but he played the political game far more than Bret did.

Triple H could demand to do a job to Punk if he wanted to. He's always had unofficial power but now? There's really no excuse why he couldn't convince Daddy in law.

[Metallo]

Originally Posted by Pink Ranger

I disagree: I find it quite believable. Face Miz (similar to Heel Miz) strikes me as the kind of character who would run his mouth and have delusions that he could effectively fight someone like Brock Lesnar. That he got his ass handed to him made the segment more effective.

If thats the case why did he cheapshot/sneak attack John Cena when he ran his mouth against him years ago? He only ran his mouth when Cena wasn't right in front of him and never really physically stood up to him. His confidence was only bolstered once he was champion and that was partly because he felt he was being ignored sometimes.

What I'm talking about is how Miz stood up to Lesnar face to face. Thats not the same as putting on a brave front and running his mouth against Lesnar when Lesnar isn't there. he didn't really run his mouth much once Brock hit the ring. It was mostly physical posturing. he also didn't know Lesnar would be there so there is the surprise element. Hard to build yourself up ego wise when you don't know whats coming.

Another difference in what you are saying is Miz ISN'T a heel right now. he's a face. And as a face he's not even acting the same as far as personality. They've changed his character to the point that he was lecturing Heyman on ethics. Miz of all people? Really? His whole character right now isn't even consistent with what he used to be.

Triple H and Piper are examples of stars who had some of the same character streaks running through them no matter if they were heel or face. Eddie Guererro was another one. Thats not really there with the Miz right now.

[Slushy]

You’ve heard the news by now. The most highly anticipated WWE Hall of Fame induction is now a reality. The longest-reigning WWE Champion of all time, Bruno Sammartino, will return home to Madison Square Garden on the night before WrestleMania 29 to take his rightful place as a WWE Hall of Famer.

It’s no secret that WWE has attempted to induct Bruno in the past, but the Abruzzi, Italy, native did not accept. For many longtime fans, the WWE Hall of Fame was simply not complete without the beloved Italian hero. One of those people was Triple H, who was responsible for reaching out to Bruno and cultivating a relationship with, perhaps, the greatest Superstar of all time. In an exclusive interview, WWE Classics spoke with both The Game and The Living Legend himself, who reminisced on his spectacular career and revealed how his stunning return to WWE was orchestrated.

WWECLASSICS.COM: It’s great to speak with you both. This is obviously an historic announcement, but let’s start off with the elephant in the room. Why now, Bruno? Why did you feel like this was the time to go into the WWE Hall of Fame?

BRUNO SAMMARTINO: Well, I guess the main reason would be Triple H. He’s the one who contacted me months ago and we got acquainted with each other. We had only met once, very, very briefly. I only really knew Triple H as a Superstar with WWE, but in person I think we only met for maybe 20 seconds.

TRIPLE H: I shook your hand once in Pittsburgh.

BRUNO: Exactly. It was a very quick introduction and that was it. But since then, Triple H contacted me and he started telling me everything that was going on with WWE. There had been issues and things that I was not happy with, but when I saw the changes, I was very, very impressed. Triple H was a very sincere guy and he was trained by someone who I had the most respect in the world for, and that was Walter “Killer” Kowalski. And then, of course, when he told me that it’s going to be in Madison Square Garden, that was huge for me, too, because of my history in the Garden.

WWECLASSICS.COM: Triple H, how important was it for you to make sure Bruno became part of the WWE Hall of Fame?

TRIPLE H: For me, it was huge. From a business standpoint it was huge and from a personal standpoint it was huge. I’ve always said I love the history of this business. Without the history, there is no today and there is no tomorrow. To look back on the history of WWE, one of the most important figures in the long story of where this all came from wasn’t recognized. And that was Bruno. It’s important to be able to allow the fans that do know who Bruno is to have the opportunity to pay tribute to him one more time. And to allow the fans that don’t know who Bruno is, or have heard of him and don’t really know that much about him, the opportunity to learn who he is. Arguably the biggest name ever in the history of the business is Bruno Sammartino.

WWECLASSICS.COM: What are your thoughts on Bruno’s previous reluctance to be inducted?

TRIPLE H: Bruno has had his gripes about the company in the past and they were completely justified. But we’ve changed, we’ve grown and we’ve evolved as a company. We’ve evolved as a business. And I felt like if Bruno knew those things and was comfortable with those things, I felt like he would want to be involved. [Wrestling] is in your blood. It’s who you are. And it was important for me for a lot of reasons to have Bruno back with WWE.

WWECLASSICS.COM: What about Madison Square Garden makes the induction so special?

TRIPLE H: Bruno sold out and headlined Madison Square Garden more than anybody in the history of the world. He sold it out himself. The times he wrestled there, the times he headlined there, it’s unbelievable. For Bruno to be back in the business again and for it all to take place at Madison Square Garden, it really was a fairy tale story that wrote itself.

My whole problem with Miz vs Brock is its totaly unbelievable. Especially Miz being super tough and brave all of a sudden when even Cena was nervous when Brock came back. I just had to laugh when Miz bucked up to Lesnar and got in his face. There was just no way he could have felt he stood a chance. I just don't buy it. With Miz against anyone else I would have but not Brock.

Agreed. Spike Dudley would've been more believable. Ironically, Del Rio is a much better face than Miz's farce attempt.

[Metallo]

Thats because Del Rio has the skill to actually stand up to more powerful heels (and look believable) and thus something to give him courage. We've all had the discussion before about how top faces often need SOMETHING special to sell to the fans to get them support. Some kind of superior ability. Del Rio has that in the ring. He has more to put him over as a main eventer while Miz is mid card at best right now.

I prefer Del Rio as a heel but so far he HAS been ok as a face when given good material. There's less thats special about Miz. Heel or face Del Rio can back up what he says in the ring. Miz is more believable as a chickensh** heel that needs to cheat to win.

[Calavera]

i need to see that chair shot miz took.


also, hhh's promos would drone on in 2000 and i hated them

[TheFuture]

What would make it even more hilarious was if Miz wasn't expecting it....well not to get him so perfectly anyway.

[Benstamania]

[Pink Ranger]

Ben, that picture even makes me uncomfortable.

[Benstamania]

Haha! Yeah, try sleeping at night.

[NDX]

Brookster looks natural there.

[Pink Ranger]

Nicole Bass looks great, but Stacy Carter really let herself go.