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Old 02-07-2013, 09:50 AM   #751
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Default Re: Paul Giamatti IS Rhino

I think you could say the same about Shocker (who I think is really only mentioned by me and a couple of other people lol). Not many people would go to him as their first choice, but that's not to say people couldn't get behind him if he were announced.

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Old 02-07-2013, 09:52 AM   #752
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Default Re: Paul Giamatti IS Rhino

I think that would be cool if he was announced. These are cool villains, they just wouldn't work alone as the MAIN villain. As side villains... that's different. It could work.

Also, a lot of fans are excited for Rhino because of Paul Giammatti as well.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:02 AM   #753
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Default Re: Paul Giamatti IS Rhino

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I think that would be cool if he was announced. These are cool villains, they just wouldn't work alone as the MAIN villain. As side villains... that's different. It could work.

Also, a lot of fans are excited for Rhino because of Paul Giammatti as well.
That's the point I'm making. These characters may not be the first choice that comes to mind, but they can still create a buzz when they are.

I agree, Paul Giamatti will have a lot of people excited for it also.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:08 AM   #754
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I think you could say the same about Shocker (who I think is really only mentioned by me and a couple of other people lol). Not many people would go to him as their first choice, but that's not to say people couldn't get behind him if he were announced.
He's the villain I want to see the most on the big screen (616 version)

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:10 AM   #755
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I guarantee you that if Kangaroo Man was making an appearance in the film, fans wouldn't be this excited.

Yes they would. They'd be telling all the cynical skeptics that we should all just wait and see, because Marc Webb is going to do amazing things with the Kangaroo and how wonderfully he'd work as a villain in an opening credits battle.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:15 AM   #756
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Default Re: Paul Giamatti IS Rhino

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He's the villain I want to see the most on the big screen (616 version)
Me too. I think he's got great potential as a hired professional hitman/henchman. He'd make a great street level rival to Spidey and has been known to give Spidey a real challenge.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:17 AM   #757
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Me too. I think he's got great potential as a hired professional hitman/henchman. He'd make a great street level rival to Spidey and has been known to give Spidey a real challenge.

616 Shocker was great in his first few appearances, but has since been turned into a third tier joke, usually used for comic relief.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:17 AM   #758
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Default Re: Paul Giamatti IS Rhino

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He's the villain I want to see the most on the big screen (616 version)
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Me too. I think he's got great potential as a hired professional hitman/henchman. He'd make a great street level rival to Spidey and has been known to give Spidey a real challenge.


100% agree. Shocker is one of my favorite villains.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:22 AM   #759
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616 Shocker was great in his first few appearances, but has since been turned into a third tier joke, usually used for comic relief.
Same can be said about Electro. Writers often write him as little more than a joke as well. I doubt we're going to see that onscreen.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:22 AM   #760
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Default Re: Paul Giamatti IS Rhino

Shocker is actually extremely popular according to some statistics Marvel once had just a couple of years ago.

It's just that people don't often mention villains like him and Rhino in the context of a movie since those seemed so unlikely to appear anyway.

But Shocker has HUGE potential, I hope Webb & Sony realises that.

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:19 AM   #761
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Shocker is actually extremely popular according to some statistics Marvel once had just a couple of years ago.

It's just that people don't often mention villains like him and Rhino in the context of a movie since those seemed so unlikely to appear anyway.

But Shocker has HUGE potential, I hope Webb & Sony realises that.

The funny thing is that before SM2 came out, all the fanboys were speculating and wetting themselves that the movie would open up with a battle with a "low level" character like Rhino or Shocker. So this nerd wet dream is over 10 years old by now.

Imagine if that's how SM2 opened up .

The fans are not always (or ever) right.

edit: I don't know if these characters have HUGE potential, but they have some potential. Maybe.

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:39 AM   #762
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Why? It has so much potential.
So has every other spider-man film to date but imo such potential has never fully been realised and TASM was entertaining enough but there's nothing in that movie that convinces me that everything we know for TASM2 is going to be amazingly mind-blowing.

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:39 AM   #763
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Default Re: Paul Giamatti IS Rhino

Good. Glad I am not the only one on here that thinks Shocker could work as an opening cameo character or at the very least a sidekick to the main villain.

My hope is that GG and Venom are the only two characters to get the reboot. Bring in other characters. To the comics, videogames, or animated series' fans we know Shocker, Rhino, Tombstone, Vulture, Sandman, Hydro-Man, Morbius, Jackal, Scorpion, and Kraven the Hunter, but to the average Joe they only know maybe three or four of Spidey's illustrious roster. So, I am thrilled Webb is at least spooning his way out of cave and introducing people to the other players in Spider-Man's life. And with his 'think bigger' comment he seems to have more of grasp of making a universe and keeping the Spider-Man series going for years to come instead of killing off villains like Raimi. Not saying that Electro or Rhino COULD die either.

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:42 AM   #764
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Default Re: Paul Giamatti IS Rhino

I think a shocker opening for SM2 back then would have been awesome.

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:50 AM   #765
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I think a shocker opening for SM2 back then would have been awesome.

But there's no point for it story-wise or thematically. It would just be there to "look awesome" and cause nerdgasms.

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:55 AM   #766
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But there's no point for it story-wise or thematically. It would just be there to "look awesome" and cause nerdgasms.
They could have made it part of the story. Spidey has to deliver the pizzas in time but Shocker is attacking, so he has to take him down while also trying to be on time for the delivery. Then he'd get there late, followed by being fired from the delivery job(like in the movie). So it would have fit snugly into the story, while also being an awesome fangasm moment.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:13 PM   #767
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They could have made it part of the story. Spidey has to deliver the pizzas in time but Shocker is attacking, so he has to take him down while also trying to be on time for the delivery. Then he'd get there late, followed by being fired from the delivery job(like in the movie). So it would have fit snugly into the story, while also being an awesome fangasm moment.

It wouldn't have fit at all. It would have been a huge WTF moment for the audience. "Who's the guy in the weird yellow and maroon costume? What are his powers? How do they work?" etc...

You can throw crap in like that in cartoons, videogames or comics, but a movie is and should be different (ie. operating on a higher level)

It's like asking why Nolan didn't have a quick scene with Penguin robbing a bank and Batman swoops down to fight him and then the story moves on exactly as it would have had the character never shown up at all.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:16 PM   #768
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It wouldn't have fit at all. It would have been a huge WTF moment for the audience. "Who's the guy in the weird yellow and maroon costume? What are his powers? How do they work?" etc...

You can throw crap in like that in cartoons, videogames or comics, but a movie is and should be different (ie. operating on a higher level)

It's like asking why Nolan didn't have a quick scene with Penguin robbing a bank and Batman swoops down to fight him and then the story moves on exactly as it would have had the character never shown up at all.
Are you speaking for the audience now? Shocker could've been introduced by a quick news report on tv that Peter sees in the pizza parlor. Or even one of Spidey's inner monologues.Personally, I think people would have enjoyed that. And who says Shocker would have to be dressed in that ridiculous suit? Doc Ock wasn't in that yellow and green crap he wears.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:17 PM   #769
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Shocker would be awesome. He could be a hired gun that gets outfitted with Oscorp tech. Or maybe he already made a name for himself as a mercenary and he gets hired to occupy Spidey.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:21 PM   #770
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It wouldn't have fit at all. It would have been a huge WTF moment for the audience. "Who's the guy in the weird yellow and maroon costume? What are his powers? How do they work?" etc...

You can throw crap in like that in cartoons, videogames or comics, but a movie is and should be different (ie. operating on a higher level)

It's like asking why Nolan didn't have a quick scene with Penguin robbing a bank and Batman swoops down to fight him and then the story moves on exactly as it would have had the character never shown up at all.
I would have no issue with Nolan doing that.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:33 PM   #771
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Are you speaking for the audience now? Shocker could've been introduced by a quick news report on tv that Peter sees in the pizza parlor. Or even one of Spidey's inner monologues.Personally, I think people would have enjoyed that. And who says Shocker would have to be dressed in that ridiculous suit? Doc Ock wasn't in that yellow and green crap he wears.

The question is: Is it worth including this character that requires exposition and time away from the main plot? and What benefit does he/she provide to the story in terms of moving it forward or than being "awesome"? The answer in this case is none.

As far as we (the audience), knew in the Raimi films, Spider-Man and Green Goblin had been the only superhuman beings in that universe until then. Having the Shocker just show up out of the blue for a 2 minute battle would be a WTF moment for an audience largely composed of people who are NOT well versed in comic fandom and have no idea who the Shocker is. It's extraneous and contrived fanservice. I'm glad Raimi was smart enough to exclude extraneous action sequences like this.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:35 PM   #772
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I would have no issue with Nolan doing that.

That's why fans don't have input on how these movies are made. They'd end up a mess.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:37 PM   #773
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The question is: Is it worth including this character that requires exposition and time away from the main plot? and What benefit does he/she provide to the story in terms of moving it forward or than being "awesome"? The answer in this case is none.

As far as we (the audience), knew in the Raimi films, Spider-Man and Green Goblin had been the only superhuman beings in that universe until then. Having the Shocker just show up out of the blue for a 2 minute battle would be a WTF moment for an audience largely composed of people who are NOT well versed in comic fandom and have no idea who the Shocker is. It's extraneous and contrived fanservice. I'm glad Raimi was smart enough to exclude extraneous action sequences like this.
Like I said, the audience doesn't need to know Shocker's entire backstory. Just introduce him quickly over the span of a minute or so in a news report of an inner monologue and keep it moving. The beginning of the movie didn't really have anything to do with the plot, aside from being another lesson of great power and responsibility(which still could have been accomplished by having Shocker be the reason that Peter was late).

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:49 PM   #774
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Like I said, the audience doesn't need to know Shocker's entire backstory. Just introduce him quickly over the span of a minute or so in a news report of an inner monologue and keep it moving. The beginning of the movie didn't really have anything to do with the plot, aside from being another lesson of great power and responsibility(which still could have been accomplished by having Shocker be the reason that Peter was late).

The audience doesn't need to know things like background or explanations when it comes to cartoons and comics, because we accept the internal logic of the world established. In the movie world, there is no indication whatsoever that the city is inhabited by superpowered beings- and it wasn't Raimi's intent to try to establish such a thing.

The beginning had everything to do with the plot. Peter's life is already so busy and stressful and his Spider-Man persona adds to that. Having Spider-Man saving a child accomplishes the same thing that bringing in a new super-being (WTF) would accomplish except for being much more economical in terms of story telling and much less a bit of fan-wankery.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:58 PM   #775
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The audience doesn't need to know things like background or explanations when it comes to cartoons and comics, because we accept the internal logic of the world established. In the movie world, there is no indication whatsoever that the city is inhabited by superpowered beings- and it wasn't Raimi's intent to try to establish such a thing.

The beginning had everything to do with the plot. Peter's life is already so busy and stressful and his Spider-Man persona adds to that. Having Spider-Man saving a child accomplishes the same thing that bringing in a new super-being (WTF) would accomplish except for being much more economical in terms of story telling and much less a bit of fan-wankery.
The audience did not need to know Shocker's complete background or explanations as to where he came from, just the basics like his name, weapons, and maybe a mugshot all presented on a quick news report. Peter's life being busy and stressful, while also juggling his Spider-Man persona, would hit home even more when he has to go out of his way to stop random super villain attacks on days when he thinks everything is fine. Not to mention it would have been a adrenaline rushing intro. It could have easily fit into the plot because it just replaced what Peter was already doing while accomplishing the same message. Just in a more powerful way, imo.

I'm not going to continue to go over this with you, especially when it's something that didn't even happen. I think it would have been an awesome intro with Shocker involved, and I also think that audiences would have not had a problem accepting it due to the beginning being so fun.

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