The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Batman > Batman Begins

View Poll Results: The Best Super hero Origin Movie ?
Batman Begins 42 56.00%
Captain America 5 6.67%
Iron Man 9 12.00%
Spider Man 5 6.67%
Superman The Movie 14 18.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-09-2013, 06:45 PM   #326
Snow Queen
Side-Kick
 
Snow Queen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,053
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CConn View Post
The scene wasn't supposed to be logical.
I can understand how others may not care but it felt so out of place and silly in the world Burton established (again, it looks great visually though). Just because it's not meant to be logical doesn't give it a free pass. If Iron Man started break dancing in the middle of the NYC Battle in The Avengers, it wouldn't be logical and it would seem out of place and it likely wouldn't just get a free pass because it's not supposed to be logical.

But, as I said, it is a gorgeous shot no matter what your opinion on the context is. I'd love to see the mechanism go off during a party though.

Snow Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 06:57 PM   #327
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,586
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Dependant on the type of storytelling you're going for, yes, it does give it a free pass. It's the context of why it's there that matters.

If you can give me a good reason for why Iron Man would start break dancing in the middle of a battle, then you'd have a proper analogy.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 07:21 PM   #328
Snow Queen
Side-Kick
 
Snow Queen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,053
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CConn View Post
Dependant on the type of storytelling you're going for, yes, it does give it a free pass. It's the context of why it's there that matters.

If you can give me a good reason for why Iron Man would start break dancing in the middle of a battle, then you'd have a proper analogy.
I still feel it doesn't work in context. Visually appealing doesn't give it a free pass in my eyes.

To defeat the Chitauri with the power of dance. :P

Snow Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 07:23 PM   #329
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,586
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

But it being visually appealing isn't the context at all.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 07:35 PM   #330
Snow Queen
Side-Kick
 
Snow Queen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,053
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CConn View Post
But it being visually appealing isn't the context at all.
Yeah, sorry about that, I was getting dressed while posting. I don't see what context the giant mirrors around Wayne Manor that reflect the Batsignal into the living room don't get noticed.

Snow Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 07:57 PM   #331
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,586
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

And that's the problem; people who don't understand the actual meaning behind scenes like that, falsely assume/interpret the scene, and end up with inaccurate criticisms.

For that scene in particular, it's all about how - after the death of the Joker - Bruce has withdrawn even farther into his obsessions, depression and isolation. That Bruce is rendered listless and downright impotent when he's not Batman. Thusly, if we went with squaremaster's assertion that he should be doing something other than sitting around in a darkened room, the undertones of Bruce's depression and isolation wouldn't be as prevelent.

Now sure, you could probably illustrate the same thing without the overly overt mirrors, but at the same time, they could very well be a visual representstion of how Bruce has so thoroughly surrounded himself in his work as Batman. The overt nature of the mirrors could very well mean that Bruce doesn't even really care if anyone does find out if he's Batman, as that's all he really is at that point in the film, anyway. Additionally, the fact thst thry are so obvious yet Bruce's secret is still kept coild be an illustration of just how isolated Bruce is; that no one outside of Alfred or him have even been close to Wayne Manor since the events of B89.

Either way, the real message of that scene is that Bruce is alone, depressed and rudderless as a human being when Batman isn't in the picture. Any critique surrounding it should really be more about whether that's a proper direction to go with the characterization of Bruce.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 08:05 PM   #332
Snow Queen
Side-Kick
 
Snow Queen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,053
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

I can understand the intentions of the scene and that's great. If you can throw out common sense for the scene, good for you. However, I can't do that (of course, suspension of disbelief is required for movies and they just have to fit within the world, imo). I just feel that it's so illogical and ridiculous. I understand Burton's intentions (if they are what you say they are) and that's great. However, I still find it ridiculous.

Now, your explanation that no one has been near Wayne Manor makes a little more sense. Though I still think that someone in the press would have noticed.

Snow Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 08:15 PM   #333
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,586
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Yes, but you're still stuck on the close minded viewpoint that storytelling needs to be consistently logical. Where there are HUGE schools of thought and theory that espouse differently.

Expressionism itself is defined as;*Its typical trait is to present the world solely from a subjective perspective, distorting it radically for emotional effect in order to evoke moods or ideas. Expressionist artists sought to express meaning*or emotional experience rather than physical reality."

And that's exactly the type of approach that that scene - and all of Burton's Batman films - take. That's the point. That's the purpose. To slight it because it prescribes to that type of art form is like finding fault in someone believing in a different school of religion than you do; there's no objective positive or negative about it. Rather, it's merely a different way of creating art.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 08:39 PM   #334
Snow Queen
Side-Kick
 
Snow Queen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,053
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CConn View Post
Yes, but you're still stuck on the close minded viewpoint that storytelling needs to be consistently logical. Where there are HUGE schools of thought and theory that espouse differently.

Expressionism itself is defined as;*Its typical trait is to present the world solely from a subjective perspective, distorting it radically for emotional effect in order to evoke moods or ideas. Expressionist artists sought to express meaning*or emotional experience rather than physical reality."

And that's exactly the type of approach that that scene - and all of Burton's Batman films - take. That's the point. That's the purpose. To slight it because it prescribes to that type of art form is like finding fault in someone believing in a different school of religion than you do; there's no objective positive or negative about it. Rather, it's merely a different way of creating art.
Yes, I do feel storytelling needs to be consistent and logical. It needs to make sense. If you enjoy the film, I won't take that away from you. But, for me, I can't stand Burton's style of film making. I feel that he goes too far with it. Things do have to make logical sense, if they don't, it's usually a problem. In this case, I feel it's a problem. For me, it takes me completely out of it. You can't just completely ignore the logic in the universe of the film and call it art because it means something. Visuals are important in making a film (obviously) but they shouldn't take priority over something making sense, imo.

But, I feel we're going nowhere with this discussion, so it may be best if we just end it.

Snow Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 08:46 PM   #335
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,586
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

That doesn't address my point at all. You're just overstating your own ignorance.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 08:42 PM   #336
Squaremaster316
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 281
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Not only is Batman Begins the greatest superhero origin film ever made, it's also the primary reason TDK was as successful as it was.

Even if everything else had remained intact with The Dark Knight (casting, plot, critical praise, LEdger's demise, etc.), has THAT film been the official reboot/introduction to the Nolanverse, it wouldn't have been as successful at the box office due to people not knowing what type of atmosphere and characters to expect beforehand.

Squaremaster316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 03:21 PM   #337
milost
Banned User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,005
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Why would Bruce Wayne having reflector mirrors outside of his home be "illogical" in it's own world? How can it be an issue for someone anyway?

The reflections are the only way you could get a logical explanation for the signal to illuminate on Bruce in his study. From a filmmaking stand point, having him simply notice it in the sky wouldn't work nearly as well. That image of him "coming to life" and seeing the signal on the bookshelves in Wayne Manor is striking and iconic, that's the point.


Symbolism > Logic










EDIT:




Just saw Anno's post, hit the nail right on the head. The bridge emblem in TDKR from a logical stand point makes less sense than Batman Returns. He poured gasoline on the very top of the bridge all the way down the side of it, then got a flare to give to Gordon just to show everyone his awesome logo?


But a brooding millionaire/billionaire on the outskirts of the city having reflective mirrors on his mansion is "illogical".


It's not about the "logic" in either film, it's about sending a message. In Returns, the message is showing a beacon that gives Wayne a purpose. In Rises it's about Batman's return and showing the city and his enemies the ever lasting symbol.





Who cares if it "makes sense". Who wants to get bogged down with that noise?

milost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2013, 10:27 PM   #338
R_T_Homunculous
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 9
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Why the hell can't I vote for Mask of the Phantasm? That was ten times better than this Nolan stuff; Both as an origin film and a Batman film.

R_T_Homunculous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 07:08 PM   #339
the5timechamp
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 163
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post
The best Batman scenes require no explanation. Visuals convey everything.

This is part of what frustrated me about the bit where Catwoman vanishes while Batman isn't looking. There was a great opportunity there for silent expression..
agree times a billion... As great as the movies are there are lots of wasted opportunities as well..

the5timechamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 08:21 PM   #340
MessiahDecoy123
Cosmic Spidey
 
MessiahDecoy123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,286
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Batman Begins is winning a poll in the BATMAN BEGINS FORUM.

What a shocker.

MessiahDecoy123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 07:56 PM   #341
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

^ Make a poll in the general area for CBMs and see who leads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milost View Post
Why would Bruce Wayne having reflector mirrors outside of his home be "illogical" in it's own world? How can it be an issue for someone anyway?

The reflections are the only way you could get a logical explanation for the signal to illuminate on Bruce in his study. From a filmmaking stand point, having him simply notice it in the sky wouldn't work nearly as well. That image of him "coming to life" and seeing the signal on the bookshelves in Wayne Manor is striking and iconic, that's the point.


Symbolism > Logic










EDIT:




Just saw Anno's post, hit the nail right on the head. The bridge emblem in TDKR from a logical stand point makes less sense than Batman Returns. He poured gasoline on the very top of the bridge all the way down the side of it, then got a flare to give to Gordon just to show everyone his awesome logo?


But a brooding millionaire/billionaire on the outskirts of the city having reflective mirrors on his mansion is "illogical".


It's not about the "logic" in either film, it's about sending a message. In Returns, the message is showing a beacon that gives Wayne a purpose. In Rises it's about Batman's return and showing the city and his enemies the ever lasting symbol.





Who cares if it "makes sense". Who wants to get bogged down with that noise?
milost gave me some credit?

Did Hell just freeze over?

Anno_Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 09:39 PM   #342
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 35,466
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Batman Begins is winning a poll in the BATMAN BEGINS FORUM.

What a shocker.
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...ghlight=origin

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker
The Joker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 03:19 AM   #343
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Well there you have it. There is already a poll and BB is leading that too. And even with more votes than this poll, lol.

Anno_Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 08:00 AM   #344
Brain Damage
Everything Under the Sun
 
Brain Damage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,861
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Oh, that feels so good to see.

__________________
WHO APPOINTED THE BATMAN?

Free Original Music
Brain Damage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 09:58 AM   #345
Tacit Ronin
Side-Kick
 
Tacit Ronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,019
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

LOL that is hilarious.

I still prefer Iron man though. And perhaps Man of Steel. We shall see.

__________________
Robert Downey Jr: Max Ray
Daniel Craig: Jake Rockwell
Chris Evans: Ace Mccloud
The Centurions Live Action Film!
Tacit Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 03:54 PM   #346
DarthSkywalker
Side-Kick
 
DarthSkywalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,054
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior. View Post
LOL that is hilarious.

I still prefer Iron man though. And perhaps Man of Steel. We shall see.
That you just named a movie that hasn't even been released yet is pretty telling.

__________________
Manchester United, 20 times Champions of England! We got our trophy back!
DarthSkywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 04:29 PM   #347
Senator Pleasury
Banned User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,846
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

I still think STM is the best origin movie. And Iron Man is also very good.

Batman Begins was good, no doubt, at explaining the why's and how's. But to keep us one hour in that and then barely showing the hero was a big flaw.

Senator Pleasury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 08:19 PM   #348
Tacit Ronin
Side-Kick
 
Tacit Ronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,019
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post
That you just named a movie that hasn't even been released yet is pretty telling.
I said perhaps and we shall see. It tells nothing, considering I am a Goyer and Snyder sceptic.

__________________
Robert Downey Jr: Max Ray
Daniel Craig: Jake Rockwell
Chris Evans: Ace Mccloud
The Centurions Live Action Film!
Tacit Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 11:04 PM   #349
MessiahDecoy123
Cosmic Spidey
 
MessiahDecoy123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,286
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Well there you have it. There is already a poll and BB is leading that too. And even with more votes than this poll, lol.
Actually the majority voted against Batman Begins.

Unlike the poll in this forum.

MessiahDecoy123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 11:13 PM   #350
Anno_Domini
Banned User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,997
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?



That's a great way to think of it if you don't want to see that 48% leading vote for BB.

Anno_Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.