Days of Future Past News and Discussion - Part 1

[SterlingDee]

Originally Posted by def28

Video games I can see Strom being more popular, though being The Phoenix in MVSC3 is pretty rad. But for Movies and comics Jean Grey has the lead on every other X Girl imo. She was literally the female lead in all 3 X Men movies, the first X Girl in the comics and the whole Phoenix and love interest of Cyclops thing gives her a pretty big edge with alot of fans.

imo Jean was the female lead in X2 and X3 but I would say Rogue was the female lead in X1. The only argument I can see for Jean in X1 is that the male lead's love interest is traditionally the female lead. I can point to actual plot points and story structure to support these assertions, but I'm sure no one is interested in that lol

[def28]

Originally Posted by SterlingDee

imo Jean was the female lead in X2 and X3 but I would say Rogue was the female lead in X1. The only argument I can see for Jean in X1 is that the male lead's love interest is traditionally the female lead.

Your exactly right! I edited right before you posted haha. My bad.

[Mrs Vimes]

Rogue was definitely the female lead in X1, but I don't know if I'd call Jean a female lead in X2. More like the most prominent of the female supporting characters. She should have been a lead, but other than her big transformation in the end she's mostly just a part of the general action and a love interest for Wolverine.

[josh8]

Storm is one of my favorite characters in the comics world... so here is my take.

When Bryan made X1, he made it as a filmmaker, NOT A FAN. He wanted to make a film about people and relationships, so he focused on the marriage of Jean and Scott being thrown for a loop with the introduction of Logan, the new tough guy with the heart of gold. On the other side of that spectrum was the outcast Rogue who must overcome and blossom. Then there was Storm (who FOX required to be in the movie), a character who was a big-name X-Man, but Bryan had no story for her.

So when Halle fought for Storm's character to have something to do in X2 (Halle never said anything about screentime, this was just added in editorially by journalists/gossip columnists to spice up the story), I was proud of her. Whether Halle did it for selfish reasons or because she just wanted her role to have some significance, it doesn't matter. She tried to do good by Storm.

So now we have DOFP and it's up to Bryan again to see if he has a place for Storm. He was never able to find a reason to have her in his movies (action scenes and power displays do not count as character development), so I dunno. As small a character as Iceman was, for example, he had LOADS MORE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT AND A STORY ARC when compared to Storm, even though Storm is the more "A-List" X-Man.

I believe Bryan has learned a lot since making X1 and X2, but he does seem to play favorites a little so I'm honestly worried. I think he knows the fans want Storm... but honestly he probably just doesn't.

[NanaT]

I don't see how arguing over who the female lead was for those previous movies will have any bearing on Days of Future Past.

Neither Halle or Famke will be the leading lady of this movie even if they both make the cut for this movie.

[Angamb]

Originally Posted by Mrs Vimes

Rogue was definitely the female lead in X1, but I don't know if I'd call Jean a female lead in X2. More like the most prominent of the female supporting characters. She should have been a lead, but other than her big transformation in the end she's mostly just a part of the general action and a love interest for Wolverine.

totally agree about Jean. I never felt she was the lead female. To me Storm has a bigger role than her. At least her action moments were better than Jean. At least to me. And her scenes with Kurt were ten times better than any scene with Jean.

To me Singer didnt care too much about the female roles, to be honest. Yeah, there were four or five females on the movie, but the males are the ones who got the spotlight. Wolverine and Magneto. Kind of funny, when Storm, Jean and Rogue are some of the most powerfull x-men from the comics and tv shows.

[marvelrobbins]

Female lead should mean who Is most important female character In Story.That wasn't storm In X-Men and X2.That was Defently Rogue In first X-Men.and I would argue that was
jean In X2.Mystique filled that role In First Class.Now a case can be made for Storm as female lead of last stand.But If we only discuss X-Men and X2 I never saw Storm as female lead.

[def28]

Yeah, Never saw Storm like that in X2 and besides her one scene in the X jet she didnt have much action. Felt Jean was focused on more character wise with the bits of Phoenix they were developing and her relationships with Scott and Logan. Storm did have some great scenes with Kurt though.

[marvelrobbins]

Storm's role In X2 apart from using powers to knock down military jets was mostly her Interaction with Nightcrawler(which was great) and stopping Jason from tricking Xavier
from wiping out humans.Jean was defently the female character they were focusing on In X2 to set up Phoenix for next film.

[def28]

Yeah, agreed.

[JackMercy]

Originally Posted by josh8

I believe Bryan has learned a lot since making X1 and X2, but he does seem to play favorites a little so I'm honestly worried. I think he knows the fans want Storm... but honestly he probably just doesn't.

A) Almost every director "plays favorites" for a period of their career. Look at any of the best directors' films and you will see recurring cast.

B) Yep, very simple.

Originally Posted by NanaT

I don't see how arguing over who the female lead was for those previous movies will have any bearing on Days of Future Past.

Neither Halle or Famke will be the leading lady of this movie even if they both make the cut for this movie.

Not at this point! If they haven't been announced yet, well...they'd be lucky to be in the thing at all!

Originally Posted by Angamb

To me Singer didnt care too much about the female roles, to be honest. Yeah, there were four or five females on the movie, but the males are the ones who got the spotlight. Wolverine and Magneto. Kind of funny, when Storm, Jean and Rogue are some of the most powerful x-men from the comics and tv shows.

I'm not gonna touch that one with a Sentinel-sized pole.

[marvelrobbins]

In another interviewing Bryan Singer Is teasing about possable return of Nightcrawler
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...=entertainment

[FilmNerdJamie]

Story goes he and Alan Cumming didn't exactly get along.

[marvelrobbins]

Yes I heard that.But If you took his comments about Storm and Nightcrawler It defently seems like Nightcrawler might be better candiate to appear.

It defently seems like based on past bryan likes Nightcrawler more than Storm.I think many would agree one of better character adoptians In films was Nightcrawler In X2.

[def28]

Nightcrawler back would be impressive. I have yet to see negative feedback with that character.

[Great Mind(s)]

Please let Nightcrawler return! Or without him, it does give X2 "the Nightcrawler movie" effect...

[josh8]

Originally Posted by JackMercy

A) Almost every director "plays favorites" for a period of their career. Look at any of the best directors' films and you will see recurring cast.

B) Yep, very simple.

But just to clarify, I didn't mean to say I believe any of that Bryan/ Halle feud nonsense. I don't think it has anything to do with Halle. I just think Bryan never invested in Storm's character and he just seems to continue to give it the short straw.

So in a sense, even if Storm is in DOFP, I think it would be ill-advised for Storm fans to suddenly think Bryan and co. can write and direct Halle in a good Storm role. There's always hope, but we should be cautious in getting too excited for the prospect.

[josh8]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Yes I heard that.But If you took his comments about Storm and Nightcrawler It defently seems like Nightcrawler might be better candiate to appear.

It defently seems like based on past bryan likes Nightcrawler more than Storm.I think many would agree one of better character adoptians In films was Nightcrawler In X2.

I've said this just a few posts ago, but Bryan just doesn't like the Storm character and it frustrates me to no end.

In X2, he had the chance to develop Storm, and we got almost nothing. Nightcrawler was a new character and he got plenty of character and personality. Bobby was an expanded cameo in X1 and in X2 he had a whole mini-story arc with family and everything. Two story-arcs if you count his growing relationship with Rogue. Even Pyro had development.

Storm got a few tidbits about how she's angry and then suddenly has faith... neither of which were demonstrated in any way.

[Great Mind(s)]

They could have had her be claustrophobic and get over it with her faith in Nightcrawler...the whole "could get stuck inside a wall"...thing.

[The Infernal]

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

Story goes he and Alan Cumming didn't exactly get along.

Well Alan did say in interviews that he didn't enjoy working with him, but he also said more recently that he'd like to be in DoFP if given the chance.

[SterlingDee]

Originally Posted by Angamb

totally agree about Jean. I never felt she was the lead female. To me Storm has a bigger role than her. At least her action moments were better than Jean. At least to me. And her scenes with Kurt were ten times better than any scene with Jean.

Storm is barely in X2, so I don't know what you were watching. The scene with Nightcrawler actually had to be rewritten to include her because Storm had so little to do in the rest of the movie. A "female lead" has nothing to do with action scenes, it has to do with participation in the story and relation to other characters.

Jean was the female lead in X2:

1. The female lead is traditionally the love interest of the male lead (Wolverine : the protagonist)

2. Jean has her own arc in the film: she's established as losing control of her powers since Liberty Island and that storyline is resolved by the end of the film (Jean's sacrifice). No other female character has an arc in the film or a significant storyline.

3. Jean's storyline is a (subtle) mirror of Wolverine's storyline: Wolverine is going on a external journey/quest of self-discovery. Jean has an internal journey of self-discovery of her powers (clearly less time is spent on her journey).

4. Jean's storyline has a climax (Jean gains control of her powers and saves the team) just as Wolverine's does (his final confrontation with Stryker). Jean's is arguably the bigger one even.

5. Jean is part of the love triangle subplot that actually gets multiple scenes in the film and is a continuing subplot from X1. Storm doesn't even have a subplot in the film.

6. Most of the denouement of the film (i.e. the part after the climax) is spent on characters (Wolverine, Cyclops, Prof X) reacting to Jean's sacrifice. Jean even closes the film with narration hinting at her return.

[BMM]

Originally Posted by Angamb

And her scenes with Kurt were ten times better than any scene with Jean.

No, they really aren't.

Originally Posted by Angamb

To me Singer didnt care too much about the female roles, to be honest. Yeah, there were four or five females on the movie, but the males are the ones who got the spotlight. Wolverine and Magneto. Kind of funny, when Storm, Jean and Rogue are some of the most powerfull x-men from the comics and tv shows.

Again, no. Any reasonable person who's watched X-Men knows that isn't true. Rogue may not be a walking pair of invulnerable double Ds, but there is clearly care there, as she is one of the characters who receives the most development in the entire franchise. As for Jean, you would have to be blind, or willfully ignorant, to not see the obvious setup provided for the character. Singer lays the groundwork for the Phoenix Saga, and Jean is suddenly a character he doesn't care much about? Please.

[Alison Blaire]

Halle Berry has its best moments in X2,but Famke is undoubtedly the most interesting woman in the saga.In X2 her performance is great, very good.In X3 is definitely what makes the best performance of the film.


She does justice to Jean, Bryan must call.It is very unfair to ignore the potential of Famke.Damn Ratner!

[JP]

Rogue is the female lead in X1.

Jean is the female lead in X2.

This is pretty obvious.


Storm is the female lead in X3, though gets nowhere near the development that Rogue and Jean got as the leads in their respective films. She's just there.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by SterlingDee

Storm is barely in X2, so I don't know what you were watching. The scene with Nightcrawler actually had to be rewritten to include her because Storm had so little to do in the rest of the movie. A "female lead" has nothing to do with action scenes, it has to do with participation in the story and relation to other characters.

Jean was the female lead in X2:

1. The female lead is traditionally the love interest of the male lead (Wolverine : the protagonist)

2. Jean has her own arc in the film: she's established as losing control of her powers since Liberty Island and that storyline is resolved by the end of the film (Jean's sacrifice). No other female character has an arc in the film or a significant storyline.

3. Jean's storyline is a (subtle) mirror of Wolverine's storyline: Wolverine is going on a external journey/quest of self-discovery. Jean has an internal journey of self-discovery of her powers (clearly less time is spent on her journey).

4. Jean's storyline has a climax (Jean gains control of her powers and saves the team) just as Wolverine's does (his final confrontation with Stryker). Jean's is arguably the bigger one even.

5. Jean is part of the love triangle subplot that actually gets multiple scenes in the film and is a continuing subplot from X1. Storm doesn't even have a subplot in the film.

6. Most of the denouement of the film (i.e. the part after the climax) is spent on characters (Wolverine, Cyclops, Prof X) reacting to Jean's sacrifice. Jean even closes the film with narration hinting at her return.

Well, all that wasn't addressed to me, but I want to say this:

You've proved Storm wasn't of any significance in X2. And more or less proved the point we are all making: that justice hasn't been done to the character.

Even Jean's arc in X2 wasn't perfectly done, to be honest. We're told she hasn't been the same since Liberty Island (and no mainstream viewer would connect the dots between that and Magneto's radiation machine doing something. In fact no one really knows what happened to Jean at the Statue of Liberty. Did that machine evolve her? Break through mental blocks? Did Singer even envisage the mental blocks concept in his vision of what was happening to Jean?). Jean later has a far-too-brief fight with Cyclops and then is found twitching on the floor behind a generator, somehow having hurt her ankle while Cyclops is walking perfectly well from being flung through the air and across the entire generator room.

That's not to say X2 was bad or weak but it sure ain't perfect.

I didn't mind the role Storm had in X2. The conversation with Nightcrawler works pretty well as another 'mirror' - his outer 'ugliness' and inner beauty against her outer beauty and inner ugliness (anger, fear). Halle seemed a bit watery-eyed in that scene, though; every time I watch it, i feel she is about to burst into tears. However, it was a nice moment, even if the 'I have faith' scene at the dam later was a bit undeveloped and cursory.

It's clear though that Storm is a popular comic book character - and there must be a reason for it, so the filmmakers need to ask themselves why she is popular, what it is people like, what makes her tick.

She's had her own journeys of discovery too. She lost her powers (later exploring her heritage and purpose in Lifedeath), she has had romances (with Forge and Black Panther, and even with Dracula), she had a Phoenix-style out-of-control power progression (in a storyline with Doctor Doom), she sacrificed her physical body as the X-Men faced the Brood race, she discovered a mystical/magical heritage. In the Wolverine and the X-Men animated series, she was manipulated by Shadow King and her powers went out of control, causing destruction across Africa. Bottom line is there is plenty of scope for character development, subplots and arcs. (Plus it would also be chance to do some amazing and visually-stunning location shooting in Kenya or Egypt!).

The fans aren't asking for Storm to dominate, just to have a bit more dimension and a sense of purpose as to why she is there.