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Old 02-09-2013, 01:26 AM   #126
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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It is not only that. Sure it could be easy to say that he was a victim of the Joker, because he really was a victim. But you have to take into account that all the mob would be again free to roam the streets, at least they would have the means to hold a grip into Gotham again, and bringing the hope of the citizens to the ground.

The thing is, I don't think Gordon and Batman became corrupted by the lie. Why? Because Batman took the fall. Instead of being something morally dubious, it becomes a sacrifice. As Gordon says at the end, he can take it, he is not a hero. He is something more. Whatever Gotham needs him to be. By definition a sacrifice is an offering, and that's what Bruce did. And ultimately, and perhaps paradoxically, that's something worthy of heroism.
I know in the context of the film, we are told if Dent messes up everyone will come after him and it's all on him but I'm not sure if legally that makes sense. They wouldn't just let the criminal go if the guy who arrested them becomes a murderer. TDKR doesn't spend any time explaining what really happened after Dent died. Who prosecuted the criminals? Did his death inspire more noble politicians? I know it's a super hero movie, so it's not a huge issue.

And about corruption, Gordon agreed to cover up Dent's crimes - that's corruption. That's not his job. He never seemed happy about it, it was Batman's choice. It takes it's toll on Gordon as we see the truth is eating him away and his wife leaving him is more proof that he didn't get away scott free.

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Old 02-09-2013, 11:16 AM   #127
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Well, concerning Dent, he was who put in jail all of those criminals with the RICO case. After that, the mayor tells him that everything will be onto him, everyone whose interests would be put in peril would try to find a way to bring Harvey to the ground. Basically, because of the singularity of his deeds, if anyone gets anything onto him, all of the criminals would set loose.

And as for Gordon, isn't allowing a vigilante to roam the city rooftops a little dubious too? But as you say, it takes a toll on Gordon and on Batman too. The point of the action is that they don't get away without consequences. They put their souls on the line to protect the city. As I said before it's a sacrifice, and that's perhaps more than heroic.

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Old 02-09-2013, 11:54 AM   #128
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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Logically, this doesn't even make sense since Batman had really no knowledge of Gordon, his men and Miranda being arrested earlier that day or that Miranda would be in the ice when he just saw her beforehand.



I never did mind that dialogue at all, but if we're speaking on BB...that old guy in Wayne Tower who kept saying everything's going to blow, lol.
Logically, you are right about it being a bit of expository dialogue. But making a big deal out of the dropped line for multiple posts is the logical result of watching this movie likely many, many times and scrutinizing over very trivial things.

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Old 02-09-2013, 11:59 AM   #129
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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I recently re-watched TDK again and there are more allusions to what happens to Batman in TDKR than I thought, specifically Joker's claim that Batman will be cast out when he's not needed anymore. You could argue that Bruce comes to believe this along with Harvey's "live long enough to see yourself become the villain" line and takes the opportunity to cast himself out on his own means.

I would argue that Joker wins by the end of TDK. Joker remarks that Batman is truly incorruptible in their last meeting but I would argue because of what happened to Dent, Joker had a hand in forcing Batman to corrupt the Batman symbol. Although their intentions are good, Batman and Gordon become corrupt, which is tragic because corruption is what they were trying to fight.

It's a really compelling ending but in all seriousness, I think it would be easy to spin Dent's story to the public as a victim of the Joker, which is how we see it as audience members.
We as audience members see Dent as a character and, hopefully, a human being. To Gotham, he is a symbol and, more importantly, a politician. How do people usually react when they discover their political leaders are hypocrites? And that's when it's a sex scandal. If it came out that the "Hope and Change" of Gotham became a crazed killer, his legacy would be ruined and all the good he and Batman brought to the city would be undone as the press would crucify the man and the mob's lawyers would have everything he ever did thrown out of court.

It is believable that they'd want to cover up his failings. However, one could argue pinning the crimes on the Joker would be easy.

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Old 02-09-2013, 06:26 PM   #130
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Logically, you are right about it being a bit of expository dialogue. But making a big deal out of the dropped line for multiple posts is the logical result of watching this movie likely many, many times and scrutinizing over very trivial things.
So logically, I shouldn't continue ranting on about something I always found to be an awful line, because logically, I can tell someone doesn't like me talking about it.

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Old 02-09-2013, 07:52 PM   #131
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

"Trivial" doesn't exist. Any big picture is made out of it's little details.

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Old 02-09-2013, 08:32 PM   #132
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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So logically, I shouldn't continue ranting on about something I always found to be an awful line, because logically, I can tell someone doesn't like me talking about it.
It was not an attack, sorry if you took it personally. It is just a throwaway line that I agree is either due to clunky exposition or a deleted scene. Either way, I just am surprised it can fuel a page worth of conversation.

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Old 02-10-2013, 03:47 PM   #133
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I like to think Bane survived the blast.I mean,he could've been wearing some kind of kevlar vest,and we're talking about a guy that can punch holes in a cement pillar.I'm sure he got some broken ribs or something,but I think he could've survived.

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Old 02-10-2013, 05:32 PM   #134
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I like to think Bane survived the blast.I mean,he could've been wearing some kind of kevlar vest,and we're talking about a guy that can punch holes in a cement pillar.I'm sure he got some broken ribs or something,but I think he could've survived.
LMAO!! Broken ribs? He took a cannon through his chest. It blows away several cars like it's nobodys business.

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Old 02-10-2013, 05:38 PM   #135
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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I like to think Bane survived the blast.I mean,he could've been wearing some kind of kevlar vest,and we're talking about a guy that can punch holes in a cement pillar.I'm sure he got some broken ribs or something,but I think he could've survived.
It blew gaping holes into multiple cars in one blast. Kevlar (which he didn't have on) and muscles cannot stop that. He be gone.

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Old 02-10-2013, 07:14 PM   #136
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I would like to think of this happening after the events of TDKR...

with Gordon still being Commissioner, there is a plan to take Gordon out of the GCPD as a whole so a new Mayor, Hamilton Hill, takes office(with help from a rising new mob boss, Rupert Thorne) and brings in Harvey Bullock to be a new detective in Gordon's Major Crimes Unit to sabotage Gordon's career.

Ever since Batman Begins, I wanted to see Hill, Bullock and Thorne being used in a similar manner.

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It was not an attack, sorry if you took it personally. It is just a throwaway line that I agree is either due to clunky exposition or a deleted scene. Either way, I just am surprised it can fuel a page worth of conversation.
No, didn't take it personally. I can see why a page or two would be too much on just a little nitpick of mine. I didn't foresee it to have happened, lol.

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I like to think Bane survived the blast.I mean,he could've been wearing some kind of kevlar vest,and we're talking about a guy that can punch holes in a cement pillar.I'm sure he got some broken ribs or something,but I think he could've survived.


You think a missile would just break some ribs when someone's wearing a kevlar vest?

And also...your idea of him being able to punch holes through pillars has nothing to do with durability of surviving a missile cannon, lol.

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Old 02-10-2013, 11:46 PM   #137
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

So Bane's knuckles are the only part of him that's indestructible.Got it.

I gotta admit though,you guys have a point.In a film where a knee brace worn once cures a knee without cartilage,
A broken back is cured by an old dude hitting it and hanging him on a rope for a few weeks,
Batman doesn't bleed to death from a 5 inch knife wound,
and escapes an A bomb's blast radius with 5 seconds to spare-

having Bane survive a small explosion is insane!

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Old 02-11-2013, 12:04 AM   #138
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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so bane's knuckles are the only part of him that's indestructible.got it.

i gotta admit though,you guys have a point.in a film where a knee brace worn once cures a knee without cartilage,
a broken back is cured by an old dude hitting it and hanging him on a rope for a few weeks,
batman doesn't bleed to death from a 5 inch knife wound,
and escapes an a bomb's blast radius with 5 seconds to spare-

having bane survive a small explosion is insane!
qft

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Old 02-11-2013, 12:09 PM   #139
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So Bane's knuckles are the only part of him that's indestructible.Got it.
Going into "berserker" mode, why would Bane stop even if he broke a few knuckles? There's no timeouts in a fight, lol.

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I gotta admit though,you guys have a point.In a film where a knee brace worn once cures a knee without cartilage,
We have no idea if it's only worn once. If Bane did indeed have his brace taken off, then I go in the metaphorical idea of climbing out of the Pit made Bruce anew. And either way...Bruce still didn't do anything with his bad leg, even kicking Bane through the City Hall doors with the other leg.

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A broken back is cured by an old dude hitting it and hanging him on a rope for a few weeks,
His back wasn't fully broken as it is in Knightfall. Old Eastern medicine isn't all too bewildering to think it could have worked if he had a protruding vertebrae.

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Batman doesn't bleed to death from a 5 inch knife wound,
Neither was a gunshot, because he's gone through that before. Recall Joker stabbing Batman in the penthouse?

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and escapes an A bomb's blast radius with 5 seconds to spare-
Because his cape being able to glide and a possible ejection wouldn't do the trick of having him escape?

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having Bane survive a small explosion is insane!
Small explosions? The Bat-pod's missiles were also able to take out a Tumbler. Could small explosions do that?

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Old 02-11-2013, 10:52 PM   #140
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I just figured the pillar punch was a wink to the comic version of the Venom. I doubt even that would shield you against a canon lol.

Talia had her knife in far longer than Joker. Plus Bane kicked him in that spot when he tried to kill Batman.

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Old 02-11-2013, 11:11 PM   #141
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Are we seriously debating on whether a human being like Bane survived a direct hit of a canon blast that completely wrecked a friggin Tumbler made out of tons of heavy metal?

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Old 02-12-2013, 12:59 AM   #142
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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So Bane's knuckles are the only part of him that's indestructible.Got it.
Ability to break things = impervious to missiles.

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Old 02-12-2013, 01:02 AM   #143
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Are we seriously debating on whether a human being like Bane survived a direct hit of a canon blast that completely wrecked a friggin Tumbler made out of tons of heavy metal?
You forget that he punched a pillar.

WITH HIS HANDS!

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Old 02-12-2013, 05:18 AM   #144
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Default Re: Stuff you like to believe happened in Nolan's series

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So Bane's knuckles are the only part of him that's indestructible.Got it.

I gotta admit though,you guys have a point.In a film where a knee brace worn once cures a knee without cartilage,
A broken back is cured by an old dude hitting it and hanging him on a rope for a few weeks,
Batman doesn't bleed to death from a 5 inch knife wound,
and escapes an A bomb's blast radius with 5 seconds to spare-

having Bane survive a small explosion is insane!
Even if those situations didnt have an explanation (and they have) , Bane surviving that would be completely insane , even by comparison.

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Old 02-12-2013, 11:38 AM   #145
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Talia had her knife in far longer than Joker. Plus Bane kicked him in that spot when he tried to kill Batman.
True, but it was still a knife that didn't phase Batman at all once he got stabbed just like the Talia reveal scene.

And thinking about it again, Joker stabbed him a second time as well, didn't he? During the final fight.

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Are we seriously debating on whether a human being like Bane survived a direct hit of a canon blast that completely wrecked a friggin Tumbler made out of tons of heavy metal?
Sadly, yah

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Old 02-12-2013, 11:51 AM   #146
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And thinking about it again, Joker stabbed him a second time as well, didn't he? During the final fight.

"All the old familiar places"

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Old 02-12-2013, 12:16 PM   #147
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Did Joker say that because he stabbed Batman in the same spot?

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Old 02-12-2013, 12:18 PM   #148
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I believe so. In the fundraiser, he stabbed him in the ribs with the shoe-knife. Then he does the same thing with the regular-knife.

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Old 02-12-2013, 03:05 PM   #149
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Hahaha, five years after the film and I still learned something!

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Old 02-12-2013, 07:25 PM   #150
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Just for the record,lets look at the original post:
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When I rewatch the films, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises, they are so near-perfect that I get a little choked up that they aren't absolutely perfect. I like to believe a few things that weren't shown on screen to help me enjoy the series as a whole.

1. Ras Al Ghul may have been killed by the subway crash, but he was brought to the Lazarus Pits by the league of shadow and resurrected.
2. Between BB and TDK Batman rounds up many of the Arkham escapees. Including Victor Zsasz.
3. Two-Face was not killed by the fall. The same fall that didn't kill Batman. He was just unconscious and brought to a secure wing at Arkham where his identity is secure from the public.
4. Joker is in the same secure wing at Arkham during the events of TDKR.
5. Batman is not actually retired between TDK and TDKR, but fighting crime in secret. Alfred and Lucius don't know, Gordon may or may not suspect. The police and general public don't know about ALL the crime that happens in the city.
6. Bane is not killed by Catwoman on the Batpod, his armor and physical flawlessness barely save his life. Him and Scarecrow are taken to the same secure wing as Joker and Two-Face.
7. Talia Al Ghul was killed in the final chase sequence of TDKR, but Ras comes out of hiding and resurrects her using the Lazarus Pits.
8. Blake (Robin) becomes Nightwing and not "Batman." This is just a personal opinion. Not something that makes or breaks the series. He goes on to fight Batman's more abstract villains (Mr. Freeze, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy, etc.)

One of the major things that bugs me (as you can probably tell) is that Batman kills so many villains. Even if accidentally. I'm just glad that Nolan made each of these things slightly ambiguous enough for me to use my imagination.

Anyone else take part in this method of self-delusion?
So,yeah,Given the concept of this thread,I'd like to believe all the stuff the OP has written in bold.

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