What Character do you wish Marvel never created...

[The Question]

Originally Posted by Anubis

Had this conversation before.

Mofo's don't wanna listen to reason. It's very simple. Bigots are hypocrites. A guy can hate black people, but his favorite musician is Michael Jackson. It's Illogical.

With Superheroes and mutants, it's just like that. Mutants are filthy, disgusting animals hell bent on the destruction and replacement of the human race, and superheroes are just men and women who, after extraordinary events, gained powers and choose to use them to help people.

Used to be human > Not human to begin with. Simple.

If it made sense, it wouldn't be bigotry, it would be a reasonable distinction.

[SlamAdams]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

My problem with mutants is people hate them for having powers without having any reasonable means of knowing if non-mutant superheroes are not mutants and or having a really hypocritical stance against mutants while blithely trusting non-mutant metas.

I feel like I have seen both a non-mutant superhero have to deal with accusations of being a mutant and a mutant superhero denying that he was a mutant.

[shiva666]

Steve Rogers and the war on drugs...LOL

[Hypestyle]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Mine is Venom. I've never been a fan, and now with the constant identity swapping I see him as pretty much a vaguely Bizzaro-like Spider-Man knock-off and we have plenty of those. Moreover, most of the Spider-"men", many of them, spun off of Venom. Venom, to me is like everything that's wrong with 90s, is very uncreative, and really is only interesting due to Black suit Spidey, but really could've stayed a one-off character.

I'm also not partial to Cable as he's part of the whole continuity mess problem X-Men has.

I'm not a fan of Venom. I felt he had a limited window of relevance that has been pushed way beyond anything tolerable or justifiable. Eddie Brock's initial beef with Spidey-- if you read into it properly-- was way off base to begin with (blames Spidey for being fired from the Daily Globe after his interview with "the Sin Eater" gets debunked when the real killer surfaces elsewhere).. Venom was depicted as murdering and/or maiming several people early on.. then of course by the early 90s he gets abruptly turned into an "anti-hero" character, who incidentally, wants to kill Spider-Man whenever he sees him (how cute!). The battles with Spider-Man were terribly one-sided; it seemed like always only some 11th hour interruption or trickery would win the battle for Spidey; he seemed to never have a clear-cut physical victory with his own strength/skills. I didn't respect him any more when Carnage was created as a "truly insane" counterpoint (who of course, was just recently himself revived, oh, great..) I never respected the alleged sympathetic nature of Brock, cancer or whatever he went through. I don't like "Anti-Venom". I don't like "Toxin". Is "Scream" still alive? The whole symbiote-as-unending-virus-villian is a worn-out story well that just doesn't click anymore, in my book. Time to move on.

[Hawkingbird]

Originally Posted by shiva666

Steve Rogers and the war on drugs...LOL

That was a very important story

[Will Nolte]

Nate Grey, aka X-Man...the "2.0, Mutant Shaman" version. Just don't like how poorly he was written recently. Why bring him back and waste the character like that?

[shiva666]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

That was a very important story

didn't read it, didn't even know there was a full story dedicated to that type of hypocrisy...
He is a chemicaly enhanced supersoldier fighting drug use...lol.
Let's have tony fight technological progress.

[Ant-manic]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

My problem with mutants is people hate them for having powers without having any reasonable means of knowing if non-mutant superheroes are not mutants and or having a really hypocritical stance against mutants while blithely trusting non-mutant metas.

they hate them because they are percieved as the next step in humanity. they are competition. and i think you'll find that most costumed heroes were recipients of distrust from the public; at least initially. difference with mutants is that the emergence of their powers are rarely planned. they don't instantly get a costume, a press kit, and the instinct to rescue someone from a burning building. you tend to be less skeptical of the "super" if they are doing something heroic the first time you encounter them; first impressions count. mutants tend to be accidentally scary/destructive when they first emerge. even then, there are always exceptions to the rule.

Ben Grimm was considered a monster when he first became the Thing. it was being around the other more teleginic 3 that ultimately saved him.

Henry McCoy was an athletic phenom before joining the X-Men. he, concievably, could have avoided anti-mutant bigotry as long as he stayed in the closet.

ultimately, it comes down to mutancy being associated with the extinction of humanity.

[Hawkingbird]

I think it's one of the most clever things Marvel have done.

[sandwraith]

Most of the "nigh-powered" Mutants with ambiguous powers. Legion and Proteus come to mind immediately mainly because they had this really ****ed up level of "Because of Reasons" abilities that just muddled the story which is a problem I've had with a ton of X-Men villains that have come out of the woodwork.

Vulcan was one such character that was destined to fall under the same yolk with Brubaker pretty much turning him into yet another uber-Godlike mutant who went off to conquer the Shi'ar. Thankfully his character was salvaged by DnA who pitted him against Black Bolt and even had a conclusion in which lines between good and evil were sort of blurred.

[Aesculapius]

Beta Ray Bill. Imagine how much more you would hate Ben Reilly if he had a horse face... Not that I personally hate Ben Reilly. Scarlet Spider had a pretty awesome character design back then.

I like Flash Venom. I don't so much like Eddie Brock. I will admit tho, Flash Venom is losing my patience with Marvel's nudging the character into being Spawn. I haven't picked up an issue in months.

Ultimately, I will agree that most characters are not bad characters. Usually the problem in Marvel is the never-ending continuity, and not the characters themselves. The stories will never be full stories, and anything you love a character at one point will be jacked up by another writer later. I honestly feel like the greatest justice Marvel could do for some of the better characters would be to make them into a manga style series. Not in their art style, but in that they are released in volume format with a beginning, middle and most importantly a conclusion.

[Colossal Spoons]

Hope and Jubilee

[roach]

Originally Posted by shiva666

didn't read it, didn't even know there was a full story dedicated to that type of hypocrisy...
He is a chemicaly enhanced supersoldier fighting drug use...lol.
Let's have tony fight technological progress.

it was a really good story. If I remember correctly he found a way to take the supersoldier serum out of his blood stream and it weakened him at the same time the Red Skull's mind got put into a clone of Steve Rogers so he had all the super soldier enhancements...led to a pretty bad @$$ fight between Red Skull and Kingpin...i think I am remembering right.

[roach]

Originally Posted by Ant-manic

they hate them because they are percieved as the next step in humanity. they are competition. and i think you'll find that most costumed heroes were recipients of distrust from the public; at least initially. difference with mutants is that the emergence of their powers are rarely planned. they don't instantly get a costume, a press kit, and the instinct to rescue someone from a burning building. you tend to be less skeptical of the "super" if they are doing something heroic the first time you encounter them; first impressions count. mutants tend to be accidentally scary/destructive when they first emerge. even then, there are always exceptions to the rule.

Ben Grimm was considered a monster when he first became the Thing. it was being around the other more teleginic 3 that ultimately saved him.

Henry McCoy was an athletic phenom before joining the X-Men. he, concievably, could have avoided anti-mutant bigotry as long as he stayed in the closet.

ultimately, it comes down to mutancy being associated with the extinction of humanity.

I look at the gun debate that can easily translate it to the MU. Think about how much people flip out about guns in school...then think what would happen if at any moment a kid could manifest mutant abilities. Someone like Cyclops or Havok manifesting their powers for the first time in a school would be disastrous.

[herakles]

Sentry!

[Obi-Ron]

Red Hulk= Marvel's Poochie

[TheCorpulent1]

The Hulk. F*** that guy. He's only had a handful of decent stories over his entire existence, so we wouldn't be missing out on much.

[runawayboulder]

Peter David did that book for over a decade. More than a handful there alone...

[THANOSRULES]

I'd say a handful of good runs..not arcs..I love the hulk but I somewhat agree he has a lot of bad stuff.

[TheCorpulent1]

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

Peter David did that book for over a decade. More than a handful there alone...

I didn't like everything from David's run that I've read. Granted, I haven't read all of David's run, either.

[Panthro]

Wolverine - because he's a black hole that sucks focus away from much better characters.

Madelyn Pryor - because making Cyclops marry a lookalike of his dead girlfriend (who later came back to life - only to die again years later) was a stupid idea.

Sentry - for being lame.

Carlie Cooper - for being even more lame than the Sentry.

[Thwip!]

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

Peter David did that book for over a decade. More than a handful there alone...

*high-fives*

[Shockdingo]

Peter David's run was amazing, and I really enjoyed Greg Pak's run on the title too. What came after that was...interesting...but I'm liking Indestructible. I've just been worried that Hulk is dumb again, then again he's barley said a sentence so far. :/

[Optimus_Prime_]

Red Hulk is definitely one for me because it diminishes the specialness of Bruce Banner. His repressed rage made the hulk. Now he's some easily repeated lab experiment and not even a unique one like Abomination.

[KevanG]

Red hulk, Carnage, Bishop

and special mention goes to the drug abusing psychopath The Sentry.

Red Hulk annoys me for the idea of his existence. You hunted the Hulk forever, let's see how you like it. Oh noes and then he joins the avengers...

Carnage just bugs me. Anywhere else he'd have been put to death for just the crimes as a serial killer but when you add a alien to the mix he gets shipped off and experimented on instead of just tossed in a furnace.

Bishop - I've never found has done anything of significance besides annoy everybody with his "I'm from the future and I'll kill anything that might make it similar to what I grew up in." Even if it means killing billions repeatedly when trying to kill a baby that 'might' someday do something. Maybe.

Sentry - I just ****ing hate the guy. When he showed up in NA I thought he might be neat with the worldwide repressed memories and the Superman like powers. A neurotic Superman who is his own worst enemy that he spawns when he tries to do good and will actively do evil to stop counter him. Neat. Then he just started getting thrown around everywhere, being everybodys best friend and greatest hero EVAR!

Then later when it turns out that he is an easily manipulable idiot that can't even step outside and is sent to murder everybody just because someone told him to, he goes full on crazy and nearly destroys the planet because Osborn's a moron. His own wife has tried to kill him because he's a crazy drugged up psycho. Then he's dead and everybody cries and whines about how good and great he was and how he cheated on his wife with Rogue because he could. I was happy he's dead and hope they never bring him back.