The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Batman > The Dark Knight Rises

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2013, 09:37 PM   #151
RAINMAKER
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 68
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
Talia was an ex-member? When did she leave?
She wasn't there when Bruce was training with Ra's. In fact, Ra's would've mentioned her if she was still part of the group, especially sense Ra's was planning on Bruce to "lead these men".

They made no mention in TDKR that she was a part of the group when Bruce was training with Ra's. Therefore, we assume that she left with Bane during the events of BB.

In fact, this is a major plot hole in my opinion that Nolan's team overlooked. I think it was lazy on their end to just throw her character in the movie when they clearly didn't anticipated it after BB or even TDK.


Last edited by RAINMAKER; 02-12-2013 at 09:58 PM.
RAINMAKER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 09:44 PM   #152
RAINMAKER
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 68
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnarTheGreat View Post
Christopher Nolan said it was important for the League of Shadows to return, so yes, they are the League of Shadows. The League were shown in the flashbacks in TDKR to be a bunch of gunmen. The gunmen in Batman Begins at the monastery wore the same red scarves that the League members wore in The Dark Knight Rises. Bruce Wayne was never supposed to be Ra's successor, he was supposed to be Ra's' right-hand man out in front in the attack on Gotham. That's what the movie says.
I guess it's how you look at it. Yes, they wore the same garb as the guys in BB, but it doesn't mean they are the real "LOS". Just like people were dressing up as "Batman" in TDK. Are they the real Batman? No.

So, I still don't think it's Ra's's LOS. I think it's more along the line of Bruce's actions have come back to haunt him. That is what I think Nolan means.

Finally, Ra's tells Bruce in at his birthday party he is so disappointed because Bruce was his "greatest student". So you're telling me that he wouldn't want Bruce to take over?

But if Nolan were to say that this was the same LOS as in BB, then I'm in the minority because I don't see many similarities. Also as I wrote in the post above, if Talia was in the real LOS, where was she during BB? This was the first plot hole I noticed and was one reason why I was hoping Talia was just a rumor. They should've left the LOS alone as Bruce defeated them in BB. Also, all Ra's says to Bruce is that "my wife and daughter were taken from me". They should've left it at that. Now we're confused as to what was going on with Talia when Ra's was training Bruce? We certainly know she wasn't going to ditch Bane as he was her "protector".

One more thing, in BB, the LOS does their thing behind the scenes. In TDKR, they are front in center. Too many differences, in my opinion.


Last edited by RAINMAKER; 02-12-2013 at 10:24 PM.
RAINMAKER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 09:51 PM   #153
RAINMAKER
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 68
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Well it certainly didn't feel like the LOS in TDKR.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

RAINMAKER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 09:52 PM   #154
BatLobsterRises
Lobsterized
 
BatLobsterRises's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,476
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

I think you already answered your own question there Rainmaker as to where Talia was during BB, cause I had the same interpretation of her leaving after her Ra's ex-communicated Bane.

I personally lean towards the idea of the LOS in Rises being a mixture of what's left of Ra's LOS and Bane's mercenaries (plus new recruits from within Gotham who aren't actual members). An figurative uprising of evil from various corners of the world.

__________________
IMAGINE THE FIRE
My TDKR Metal cover
My MOS Trailer 3 score recreation
My take on why there is no "DC Films" Division at WB:
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=158
BatLobsterRises is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 09:58 PM   #155
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jollity Farm
Posts: 36,613
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.
I'm deadly serious.

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker
The Joker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:04 PM   #156
JackWhite
Third Man
 
JackWhite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,722
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
I'm deadly serious.
Why so....yeah, you probably saw that one coming.

JackWhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:06 PM   #157
FeedOnATreeFrog
A Metal Gear reference
 
FeedOnATreeFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,910
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Well if it's not the real League, it's another group that also believes in the same thing that calls themselves the same thing......so...it's basically the same thing.

FeedOnATreeFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:22 PM   #158
RAINMAKER
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 68
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
Well if it's not the real League, it's another group that also believes in the same thing that calls themselves the same thing......so...it's basically the same thing.
So the guy that dressed up as Batman (Brian, who was killed by the Joker) was the "real batman" because he believed in the same thing?

RAINMAKER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:25 PM   #159
BatLobsterRises
Lobsterized
 
BatLobsterRises's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,476
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Regardless of the actual manpower behind it, there at least was an al Ghul involved in the proceedings. I wouldn't say the LOS were impostors or anything like that in TDKR. I would say the League of Shadows morphed into something even more dangerous and destructive, with an added fire and purpose.

__________________
IMAGINE THE FIRE
My TDKR Metal cover
My MOS Trailer 3 score recreation
My take on why there is no "DC Films" Division at WB:
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=158
BatLobsterRises is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:30 PM   #160
RAINMAKER
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 68
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
Regardless of the actual manpower behind it, there at least was an al Ghul involved in the proceedings. I wouldn't say the LOS were impostors or anything like that in TDKR. I would say the League of Shadows morphed into something even more dangerous and destructive, with an added fire and purpose.
Yes, I can agree with that. However, I just can't get over how Talia is in charge with Bane?

RAINMAKER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:34 PM   #161
FeedOnATreeFrog
A Metal Gear reference
 
FeedOnATreeFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,910
Post Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
So the guy that dressed up as Batman (Brian, who was killed by the Joker) was the "real batman" because he believed in the same thing?
If Brian believed in the same things Bruce did, was able to accomplish as much/more than Batman did, and if he was the same level of obstacle for criminals, then yes, in the eyes of criminals he'd be the same thing as Batman to them.

FeedOnATreeFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:37 PM   #162
FeedOnATreeFrog
A Metal Gear reference
 
FeedOnATreeFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,910
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
Yes, I can agree with that. However, I just can't get over how Talia is in charge with Bane?
Well maybe she's the rightful heir.

I imagine she turned away from the League and left (due to Ra's treatment of Bane). I don't think the League cast her out, which seems to be what you're thinking. She turned away from league, they didn't turn away from her, banishing her, never to return or whatever.

And when Ra's died, she felt the need to come back, exact vengeance, etc. They welcomed her back. Simple.


Last edited by FeedOnATreeFrog; 02-12-2013 at 10:41 PM.
FeedOnATreeFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:41 PM   #163
RAINMAKER
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 68
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
Well maybe she's the rightful heir.

I imagine she turned away from the League and left (due to Ra's treatment of Bane), instead of the League casting her out, which seems to be what your suggested.
Read what I wrote again, I said she left with Bane. But then again, we don't know because it's not explained. Ra's could've kicked both of them out.

RAINMAKER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:42 PM   #164
RAINMAKER
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 68
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
If Brian believed in the same things Bruce did, was able to accomplish as much/more than Batman did, and if he was the same level of obstacle for criminals, then yes, in the eyes of criminals he'd be the same thing as Batman to them.
Fair enough.

RAINMAKER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:48 PM   #165
RAINMAKER
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 68
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
And when Ra's died, she felt the need to come back, exact vengeance, etc. They welcomed her back. Simple.
That's what she did. But it's frustrating because of the plot hole in BB. Why wasn't there a mention of her in TDKR as a BB flashback? It probably was because it would then be too obvious that Talia would be the surprise villan.

I guess you can look at it just like the mob did with the Joker. Batman foiled the LOS's plan and killed their leader. They just said "screw it" and let Bane and Talia do their thing.

RAINMAKER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:55 PM   #166
BatLobsterRises
Lobsterized
 
BatLobsterRises's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,476
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

I see it more like Talia and the League turned to Bane and let him do his thing, but I agree that there's an analogy to TDK/the mob and Joker in there.

__________________
IMAGINE THE FIRE
My TDKR Metal cover
My MOS Trailer 3 score recreation
My take on why there is no "DC Films" Division at WB:
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=158
BatLobsterRises is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 11:06 PM   #167
FeedOnATreeFrog
A Metal Gear reference
 
FeedOnATreeFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,910
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
That's what she did. But it's frustrating because of the plot hole in BB. Why wasn't there a mention of her in TDKR as a BB flashback? It probably was because it would then be too obvious that Talia would be the surprise villan.
Sure it would have been cool.

As an explanation, maybe Ra's in BB didn't want to bring up the daughter who hates him and left the league because Ra's excommunicated her protector and friend.

FeedOnATreeFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 11:11 PM   #168
RAINMAKER
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 68
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
Sure it would have been cool.

As an explanation, maybe Ra's in BB didn't want to bring up the daughter who hates him and left the league because Ra's excommunicated her protector and friend.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there would've been a lot less confusion had she been left out of TDKR. I'm sure she was never intended in the series when they wrote BB. I would've liked to see what direction they would've gone in had Heath been here today.

RAINMAKER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 11:30 PM   #169
BatLobsterRises
Lobsterized
 
BatLobsterRises's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,476
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

If I can be a conspiracy theorist for a moment, I always thought it was kind of interesting that they list Talia as Ra's daughter in his bio on the BB special features. The bios were meant to be for the in-movie characters, not just random trivia about their comic book roots. Nolan is known to be pretty involved with what goes on his DVDs.

I also thought the rumors of Nolan being upset about the Justice League: Mortal film because it featured Talia trying to avenge her father's death interesting as well.

Not saying they had it planned all along, but it could have been something they were toying with in the back of their minds, or something they wanted to have the option to do if they saw fit.

__________________
IMAGINE THE FIRE
My TDKR Metal cover
My MOS Trailer 3 score recreation
My take on why there is no "DC Films" Division at WB:
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=158
BatLobsterRises is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 12:20 PM   #170
Doctor Who
KIDNEYS!!!
 
Doctor Who's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 6,417
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Bane is basically a setup of a character that gets lost in his own loop hole. He really had no plan, other than do whatever Talia wanted; and that called for escaping from the Pit with Talia and being trained to become a member of the LOS. Later on, when Ra's gets an idea that he's a bit of a rage monster with zero control and banishes him from the League.

Meanwhile, I guess Bane does practically nothing between his banishment and the events following after Batman Begins until Talia finds out her father dies and calls upon Bane to be a mysterious plot device for her plan. The movie implies that Bane's only real motivation is doing whatever Talia wants, but I like to think he was doing as he pleased too. It's safe to guess from being in the Pit for so long for reasons that could be similar to Vengeance of Bane, his view is of a prison world. And with that, he sees Gotham as an even greater prison and Batman the warden: logically, his mindset tells him to break the Batman, and from that he becomes the top dog.

But at the same time, it doesn't make much sense, does it? Why would he want to rule Gotham only to be working under Talia for her love? Not to mention if Gotham were to become his and become another Pit of Despair, if you will, why create a temporary prison to blow up? There's no real follow up, and you would figure he would be aiming for a greater evil that would be a bit more permanent. LOL

And how it sounds on Talia's end, she sounds like yet another stupid woman we know of that has daddy problems. I can't blame her though! All of her life she grew up in a prison with her mom only to see her be killed. Dad's not around because the War Lord found Ra's marrying her daughter behind his back. For that, he sends his own pregnant daughter into a raging hell and makes Ra's an outcast.

That part makes perfect sense.

Later on in the Pit, she befriends Bane; she's found a big best friend that protects her and he has his own little Osito. Basically it's a romance between Chewie and a female Han Solo, minus how pedophile-ish it may seem. But then again, I can guess at this point when Talia escapes, she's between 8-10 years old, and Bane is probably 16 at the time.

On that side of the world, that makes sense.

When she escapes and Bane helps her in the process, being brutally beaten in the process, it's probably shortly after Talia finds her father (who's already begun creating the LOS) and they go into the Pit to save Bane. I'm surprised it took Ra's that long to go out save his own daughter, but at the time he probably didn't know he knocked up his wife before sending her to her death. I won't be picky and question that to no end. ANY WAY. He finds out he has a daughter. To make up for all the years that he never had with Talia, being the irresponsible father he was, goes over and saves her boyfriend from the pit. Ra's probably thinks "hey, he seems like a nice guy: takes care of Talia when his wife killed, gets beat to hell so she can escape. What the hell!" Ra's, Talia, and the League finally go barging into the Pit to extract vengeance on everyone there and save Bane. What could go wrong with this fantasy of a morbid fairy tale ending?

With some consideration Ra's takes in Talia and Bane, trains them to be members from the LOS. You never see Talia use this hand to hand combat and skilled ninjitsu, but other than that... once again, it's a rational train of thought.

After awhile, Ra's sees that Bane has anger management issues and has probably gone through 40 different members of the League like toilet paper, and decides enough is enough! Pulls his thoughts together, gives Bane a slap on the wrist and excommunicates him from the League because he's a reminder of his wife and the hell he stuck her in... and that he probably hulked out too much when he shouldn't have and killed about 42% of the group he invested years in making. He DID take the time to get his newly formed order to save his @$$ from the Pit. And in return, kills almost half of them, or safe to assume that he does. What other kind of reckless behavior would you expect from a group of deadly assassins that would make Ra's a little ticked off? In the eyes of Ra's, Bane is a reckless hummer driving douce bag monster and doesn't deem him fit for his daughter.

If I was a father and just found this out about a daughter I never knew that I had, I would kind of feel the same way.

With Bane gone, I guess Talia has a b*tch fit and never speaks to her father again. So for years on out, she then ONLY decides to forgive her father after he's dead. Talia's pissed because she's under the impression that Ra's only excommunicated Bane because he loved her. It could VERY WELL be the case, but again... I won't question it. So Talia leaves because she's pissed with daddy for taking Bane away. She never speaks to him or comes around to forgiving him until she finds out Batman murders him... which, let's be honest, DID. LOL

And because Ra's failed to cleanse the world with an Ozymandias like motive (that has its benefits in an overly extreme way), Batman within 8 years is able to purify Gotham for the most part with the help of Dent and Gordon... without killing anyone. Minus Ra's, who he left on a train with no rail and a device that could explode at any time. And Harvey Dent... because he got butter fingers and dropped him accidentally after shoving him off of 6-10 story roof only moments earlier. It was a lie, sure, but most great things come from secret lies.

So in a nutshell:

-Talia in a angry PMS fury, devises a plan to destroy a Gotham that's already been, for the most part, saved, with the help of Bane whom considers only a friend at this point after fooling around with Bruce.

-Bane is friend zoned and does everything in the name of Talia's love while attempting to have his own fun along the way. Which includes breaking Batman, putting him in the Pit that he endured for years for reasons we can assume that was created by Chuck Dixon.

-The Emperor Palpatine of the story, Talia, makes a half-@$$ed plan as an apology to her father who shouldn't have been fooling around with his bosses' daughter in the first place, and in the process marrying her as an apology for not wearing or breaking his condom.

-And from there, Talia takes advantage of Bane's love and makes him do all the hard work as a grand master dictator... While she dolls up for a board member job in Wayne Enterprises, only to throw parties and screw Bruce Wayne on the side because she's a typical artificial b*tch.


THAT'S where the tires fall off for me.

__________________
ben: hello im ben...
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=453945
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

______________
\__\_l_l_/__/
\_______/
l_
l

THE LEGEND ENDS

JULY 20TH 2012
Doctor Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 02:15 AM   #171
Dark Sentinel
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 865 Peppling Ave., Pettsburg, Gotham City
Posts: 6,998
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

I haven't been here for a while, but I will say this on this subject:

Twice Bane says that he is here (in Gotham) to "fulfill Rā's al Ghūl's destiny."

If you read the Batman Begins novelization, Rā's wanted Gotham to serve as an example to the world at large. Gotham in his mind represented the growing decadence and corruption in the modern world, and so as "the League of Shadows (being) a check against human corruption for thousands of years," saw fit to use Gotham as a symbol. Remember, the LOS essentially created the environment that killed Bruce's parents and, in turn, created the Batman, by tampering with Gotham's internal economy, thrusting the city into a polarizing depression.

Talia simply wishes to continue/finish her father's work. So regardless of Gotham's "peacetime," the LOS has a legitimate reason to want to destroy Gotham. But under Bane and Talia, they would have literally destroyed Gotham. Rā's never wanted to destroy the city. He wanted to use Crane's blue poppy-derived fear toxin to let Gotham tear itself apart.

In other words, Rā's was pretty hands-off, Bane/Talia were very hands-on.

Dark Sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 11:36 AM   #172
BatLobsterRises
Lobsterized
 
BatLobsterRises's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,476
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Sentinel View Post
I haven't been here for a while, but I will say this on this subject:

Twice Bane says that he is here (in Gotham) to "fulfill Rā's al Ghūl's destiny."

If you read the Batman Begins novelization, Rā's wanted Gotham to serve as an example to the world at large. Gotham in his mind represented the growing decadence and corruption in the modern world, and so as "the League of Shadows (being) a check against human corruption for thousands of years," saw fit to use Gotham as a symbol. Remember, the LOS essentially created the environment that killed Bruce's parents and, in turn, created the Batman, by tampering with Gotham's internal economy, thrusting the city into a polarizing depression.

Talia simply wishes to continue/finish her father's work. So regardless of Gotham's "peacetime," the LOS has a legitimate reason to want to destroy Gotham. But under Bane and Talia, they would have literally destroyed Gotham. Rā's never wanted to destroy the city. He wanted to use Crane's blue poppy-derived fear toxin to let Gotham tear itself apart.

In other words, Rā's was pretty hands-off, Bane/Talia were very hands-on.
Great post. This is precisely what I've been saying since July. Some fans don't agree with the interpretation of the LOS seeing Gotham as a symbol for corruption in the world and instead believe Ra's simply wanted to rid Gotham of organized crime and move on. To which I have always thought, why not just assassinate all the mobsters/corrupt politicians in Gotham then? They're ninjas, after all. And Gotham was easy for them to infiltrate (EG. Finch's murder).

Considering that, along with a bunch of key lines from Ra's in BB, necessitates the global ideals interpretation IMO. If all Ra's wanted to do was eliminate the mob influence in Gotham, that makes him a weaker character because gassing the city is a completely overwrought, roundabout, mustache twirling way to go about that. And as you said, it does not make sense of why he attacked Gotham economically which put it in the state it was in during BB. It's the fact that he believes his plan will somehow improve the state of the world at large and bring it towards balance that makes him scary, and believable. He's a terrorist, plain and simple. Terrorists do things to send a message. This was a trilogy that dealt heavily with symbols, and has also been known as the post 9/11 superhero saga. Terrorists, as we know are highly symbolic about the targets they choose to strike.

I wish more fans saw it this way. It makes a huge difference in how you take in the entire movie.

__________________
IMAGINE THE FIRE
My TDKR Metal cover
My MOS Trailer 3 score recreation
My take on why there is no "DC Films" Division at WB:
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=158
BatLobsterRises is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 12:41 PM   #173
TheGuy
Side-Kick
 
TheGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 673
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

The best way to interpret the LOS's motive is to consider them as fundamentalists. Fundamentalism is a reaction to Modernist theology. In Gotham's case, the Dent Act has eradicated organize crime. But there's always a minority whose opposition to change is unflinching. They stick to an idea no matter what. Any crevices they find at the system or structure is used as a reason for action. That crevice in TDKR is Daggett and Stryver. They represent the oppressors that have kept ordinary Gothamites down with myths of opportunity, which they ironically helped to power before BB.

TheGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 07:21 PM   #174
DACrowe
Side-Kick
 
DACrowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 26,006
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_scream View Post
I'm a fan of TDKR but the biggest gripe I have is a serious issue with the film. In Batman Begins, it is clear that Gotham is corrupt and both Batman and Raas take different ideological approaches to the corruption. Batman thinks it can be saved. Raas believes it is for the good of the world to allow Gotham to perish as it is beyond saving.

Fast forward 8 years or so later. Batman was right. He managed to manipulate the system and work with Gordon and Dent to make a peaceful Gotham. It required Batmans sacrifice but it demonstrated Gotham was not beyond saving.

So, why is it the reformed League of Shadows cares to destroy Gotham? The film toys with the idea that there is still evil below the surface. But this evil is the League itself. The film also toys with the idea that Talia and Bane want vengeance for Raas death. But vengeance means destroying an entire city of people who didn't have anything to do with his death?

My biggest gripe with the film. Would welcome a rational explanation for what motivates the primary villains to want to kill millions of people.
Well beyond Daggett showing that there is still rampant corruption as he iNVITES them to his city and pays them with service to destroy it just to better position himself for a hostile takeover it's simple...

They're ideological terrorists who believe, with almost religious fervor, that Ra's Al Ghul was a god among men and that Gotham must be destroyed (at the very least as a moral example, eg. Bane's lines to Pavlo by the reactor). Look around at real terrorists today. Can you honestly say that a change in public policy for governments or countries they have declared a moral mission to destroy will sway them? For those who already drink the koolaide, probably not.

Honestly, Nolan's LOS is more a ridiculously well resourced and placed terrorist cell. Yeah, they have Ninjas and are led at the end by a guy in a mask that numbs his pain. But they are still more of that line than they are in the comics.

__________________
"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country."

--John Adams

Last edited by DACrowe; 02-17-2013 at 07:24 PM.
DACrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 08:49 PM   #175
Hatch
New User - Level 0
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1
Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

I think Nolan does a fairly good job showing that Gotham is still corrupt. Organized crime may be down, but there's still a massive gulf between the rich society types and the rest of the populace.

We get a scene at the orphanage telling us that as soon as they age out most of these kids are going into the sewers because they can't find jobs and nobody wants them. It's also implied that they make up a large part of Bane's army (what other jobs would there be in the sewers?). Bruce Wayne's first comment to Miranda Tate at her charity ball was "Proceeds go to the big fat spread. It's not about charity, it's about feeding the ego of whichever society hag laid this on." Daggett was convinced paying Bane gave him power over the man. Even the action scene in the Stock Exchange has a business man casually tossing dollar bills to the shoe shiner who has to literally pick up the scraps his "better" deigns to give him, two men passing by a janitor without even acknowledging him and a security guard talking down to Bane as an idiot for wearing his bike helmet through the door (though admittedly I may be looking too much into it, maybe the security guard is that dismissive to everyone). Finally, we can't overlook just how quickly the public took to Bane's "revolution" and threw people out of their expensive apartments.

Things look better in TDKR than they did in BB at first glance, but the decadence and rot in Gotham is still there. The powerful still take from the weak, and the city is still corrupt.

Unfortunately, instead of pointing out that the LOS is using class warfare as a weapon against Gotham and having Batman confront the problems in the city that the first act shows us we get "SURPRISE, WE'RE JUST GONNA NUKE THE CITY LOL!"

Hatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.