A Song of Ice and Fire books

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by CrypticOne

I don't know how people can say AFFC and ADWD are of lower standards than the first three books. All have been awesome reads for me. And it has kept me guessing on how this will all end up. I also don't see how GRRM will end this series with two more books. So much stuff is happening. And the Others still haven't shown up yet.

That's basically my point. A lot of stuff is happening, and while it's interesting, it's doing very little to advance the main plot, and after a while I find myself wondering "okay...why do I care?" And I began to wonder if all these new characters were really necessary, since they seem to be doing little to nothing to advance the main plot.

[nite-owl]

I hope Areo Hotah dies the most painful death in all of Westeros.

[Spidey-Bat]

Originally Posted by nite-owl

I hope Areo Hotah dies the most painful death in all of Westeros.

He has to get in line behind the Freys

[CrypticOne]

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x

That's basically my point. A lot of stuff is happening, and while it's interesting, it's doing very little to advance the main plot, and after a while I find myself wondering "okay...why do I care?" And I began to wonder if all these new characters were really necessary, since they seem to be doing little to nothing to advance the main plot.

I care. I like that GRRM has introduced so many characters. If gives us very vast and different POVs of the people in Westeros and that world in general. We get to see how events impact certain Houses and places and people. If it only stuck to perspectives of the Starks or Lannisters, we would be wondering what the hell everybody else is thinking, or at least I would.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by CrypticOne

I care. I like that GRRM has introduced so many characters. If gives us very vast and different POVs of the people in Westeros and that world in general. We get to see how events impact certain Houses and places and people. If it only stuck to perspectives of the Starks or Lannisters, we would be wondering what the hell everybody else is thinking, or at least I would.

It is great world building, but poor plot managment. In GRRM's own words there are "too many balls in the air." The end game started at the conclusion of ASOS and the original plan was to go to the endgame from there. Now 2,000+ pages later and we are not any closer to the end game. That is a hell of a sidetrack. Its beginning to look like this series will suffer a similar fate to the Wheel of Time series.

If I had to sum up the series for someone right now it would be: interesting world, cool story, bad pace and story managment.

[nite-owl]

Originally Posted by Spidey-Bat

He has to get in line behind the Freys

I still want Stannis and Davos to **** the Freys up

[DACrowe]

I, myself hope that it is Arya who gives the Towers a visit.

[DACrowe]

Originally Posted by CrypticOne

I care. I like that GRRM has introduced so many characters. If gives us very vast and different POVs of the people in Westeros and that world in general. We get to see how events impact certain Houses and places and people. If it only stuck to perspectives of the Starks or Lannisters, we would be wondering what the hell everybody else is thinking, or at least I would.

To a point, I agree. But the story is truly about the Starks and Lannisters, as well as the Baratheons and Targaryans. Seeing the Tullys through Cat's eyes, the riverlands on fire through Arya's or the VAle through Tyrion and Sansa's is great. Even seeing the Greyjoys and Pyke through the POV of Theon, as he is/was a major player in the stories of Robb and later Bran, feels crucial and world building. Then when we follow Asha after she was so important to Theon, it is likewise organically building on what was there.

But in the last two books, we are introduced to an army of new characters with no connection at all to the first three books worth of major players. And while it is interesting to see what is happening in Dorne or the Iron Islands post-Balon, etc. etc. it feels irrelevant to the three main story threads which remain: the battle for the Iron Throne, the battle for the Wall as winter nears and Danys's ever slow creep towards Westeros.

When you have 400 or 500 pages in each book devoted solely to developing the Maesters or the Dornish in ways that feel completely inconsequential to the plot, there's a problem. That is why the two most recent books have been so coldly received as of late.

[CrypticOne]

I feel like the Greyjoys will be a very important part of Dany's story. Euron and Victarion. So I'm glad they were introduced because I find them very interesting.

GRRM has introduced all these characters, but some of them have already died.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Plus, with Jon dead, I'm not sure who else will tell the story of the Wall. Melisandre? Plus, I think something is happening in the Citadel with Sam there too.

I've never read any other novels by GRRM, but if he's introducing these characters, they must have some part to play.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

I read a comment on /tv/ that

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

After the Red Wedding, most of the likeable characters are dead and the boring ones start taking center stage?

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by CrypticOne

I feel like the Greyjoys will be a very important part of Dany's story. Euron and Victarion. So I'm glad they were introduced because I find them very interesting.

GRRM has introduced all these characters, but some of them have already died.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Plus, with Jon dead, I'm not sure who else will tell the story of the Wall. Melisandre? Plus, I think something is happening in the Citadel with Sam there too.

I've never read any other novels by GRRM, but if he's introducing these characters, they must have some part to play.

I wouldn't be so sure that he is dead. Even if he is his story is far from over if rumors and theories are true.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator

I read a comment on /tv/ that

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

After the Red Wedding, most of the likeable characters are dead and the boring ones start taking center stage?

Major spoilers if you want to know.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Rob, his men, and Cat are killed at the wedding. Arya is outside the gates with Hound, but they escape. Cat at the end of ASOS is a reanimated corpse seeking revnge.

In books 4&5 Jaimie, Cersie, the Greyjoys, Dorns, and other side characters take the stage.

[Rob3880]

My experience with the Ice and Fire series is this. I read the first three books and absolutely devoured them. I think I finished them in less than two weeks.. I was completely addicted. I get to A Feast for Crows, and notice that it has taken me longer to read that one then it took to read the first three combined. There was such an abrupt change in pacing and plot development, that it really was jarring. After a lot of meandering, the book finished strong near the end so I thought, "Okay, benefit of the doubt, next one will be great." A lot of years go by, and the new book is out. Fans, myself included are whipped into a frenzy of excitement.. The show is awesome, the possibilities are endless. My mind decided to bury, or just outright forget my experience with AFfC. So I start the new book, and excitement wanes quickly, in fact, halfway through and I'm debating whether I should just put it down altogether. I forged ahead, although while reading it I was constantly nodding out like a heroin addict. My faith in the future of the series is destroyed. If the next one doesn't deliver I am done.

[Oberon sexton]

Personally, there's some stuff in book 5 that while not exactly moving the plot forward, is some of the best material I've ever read in novel. Theon's redemption alone is masterfully done.

[Buford The Sly]

To me the only area he's dropped the ball in is Dany's arch. However by the end of A Dance With Dragons it seems to be back on track. Dorne and the Iron Islands will play important parts in the end game I believe. He's said before in interviews that many POV character are going to start dropping off. A few of my thoughts on Winds are -

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

1) Jon's not "dead" but we may have read his last POV chapter.
2)Tyrion may be the only significant Lannister left at the end of WOW.
3)Arya's going to make it back to Westeros to cause some havoc.
4)The Greyjoy's will "have" one or two of the Dragons.
5)Vary's is revealed as a Blackfyre to help young Griff take the Throne.
6)and my crazy crack pot theory is that the faceless men are somehow in league with The Others and will help release them on Westeros. I don't know, there's just something too similar with The Great Other that Melisandre is always on about and the "God of Many Faces". No one else found it peculiar that the boat full of Wildings ended up in Braavos?

[DACrowe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator

I read a comment on /tv/ that

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

After the Red Wedding, most of the likeable characters are dead and the boring ones start taking center stage?

Some likable ones will be gone, but I find the least boring ones to be the ones with many shades of grey. However, in the fourth and fifth book, minor characters not seen before in the first three take up a ton of page time. Hopefully, the show will be more expedient.

[squeekness]

Originally Posted by Oberon sexton

Personally, there's some stuff in book 5 that while not exactly moving the plot forward, is some of the best material I've ever read in novel. Theon's redemption alone is masterfully done.

Yeah, that was unexpected for me and it made things just a bit more interesting.

[Marvolo]

Anyone waiting for the Dance With Dragons paperback will be dissappointed to find out that the publisher, Bantam, has once again postponed the release this time all the way out to October 29, 2013.

http://www.randomhouse.com/book/1083...7#aboutthebook

GRRM had this to say:

"I would not call them "false" release dates. They are real release dates. But yes, the date keeps getting pushed back.

Bantam, like all major publishers, does not sell directly to the readers, but rather to bookstores. We want to please the booksellers, especially the 600 pound gorillas like B&N and Amazon who buy hundreds of thousands of copies. And B&N and Amazon keep asking us to hold up the mass market, since the hardcover is still selling so strongly. (A "problem" most writers would kill to have).

Release of a mass market paperback tends to drive a spike through hardcover sales, so generally speaking a publisher wants to wait until the hardback has run its course before bringing out the cheaper edition. In this case, however, DANCE is behaving like the Energizer Bunny, so...

And hey, I just gave you guys the Arianne chapter. Let that one hold you for a while."

http://grrm.livejournal.com/312483.html#comments

[Oberon sexton]

*Mugatu*......He's absolutely right....*Mugatu*

[Baramos]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

Anyone waiting for the Dance With Dragons paperback will be dissappointed to find out that the publisher, Bantam, has once again postponed the release this time all the way out to October 29, 2013.

http://www.randomhouse.com/book/1083...7#aboutthebook

GRRM had this to say:



http://grrm.livejournal.com/312483.html#comments

Bah, and they say piracy is never justified. WE SHALL PAY THE IRON PRICE!

[Wyrminarrd]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

Anyone waiting for the Dance With Dragons paperback will be dissappointed to find out that the publisher, Bantam, has once again postponed the release this time all the way out to October 29, 2013.

http://www.randomhouse.com/book/1083...7#aboutthebook

GRRM had this to say:



http://grrm.livejournal.com/312483.html#comments

Hmm, I bought this book in paperback form months ago... Are they really using different release windows in the US and in Europe?

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by Wyrminarrd

Hmm, I bought this book in paperback form months ago... Are they really using different release windows in the US and in Europe?

The US almost always has a different and much later release window for mass-market paperback books.

[Wyrminarrd]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

The US almost always has a different and much later release window for paperback books.

That is so weird and would really annoy me if I lived there as I almost always buy paperbacks. In this day and age of digital piracy it's just stupid to keep people waiting to long.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by Wyrminarrd

That is so weird and would really annoy me if I lived there as I almost always buy paperbacks. In this day and age of digital piracy it's just stupid to keep people waiting to long.

They do it for sales. Only the utmost fans would buy the hardback if the paperback was availlable same day. This would make the hardback cost prohibitive and they wouldn't even bother printing hardbacks at all.

We can usually count on the trade paperback coming out 1 year after the hardback. with the Mass Market paperback coming out sometime later. Yes, we have multiple kinds of paperbacks. The trade paperback is better quality and costs $12-$20. The mass-market is printed on cheap recycled paper, generally flimsy, and costs $$7-$14. Sometimes the publisher just jumps straight to the mass-market after the hardcover has been out for a while then later on releases a better qualty paperback. It gets very confusing over here.

If I can't wait I get it from a local library, otherwise, I usually don't read a book until it has been out for a few years when I can get the paperback. Hardcovers are too bulky and much too expensive.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Are the standard paperbacks the trade-sized ones?

[Wyrminarrd]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

They do it for sales. Only the utmost fans would buy the hardback if the paperback was availlable same day. This would make the hardback cost prohibitive and they wouldn't even bother printing hardbacks at all.

We can usually count on the standard paperback coming out 1 year after the hardback. with the Mass Market paperback coming out sometime later. Yes, we have multiple kinds of paperbacks. The standard is better quality and costs $12-$20. The mass-market is printed on cheap recycled paper, generally flimsy, and costs $$7-$14.

I understand a 2-3 month wait between hardcover and paperback, that should be enough. A whole year is just really pushing it imo.